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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 28. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on September 1, 2006, at 21:27:16
In reply to Therapy Hurts, posted by daisym on September 1, 2006, at 19:44:23
What did you say when he said that?
I think I'd have squeaked something like "What phase is that? When did I change phases? Why didn't I get a diploma or something? You just can't go changing phases without telling a client! There needs to be a line of demarcation."
But I suppose it's healthier to feel good about your progress and your therapist's acknowledgement of it. :(
Posted by sunnydays on September 1, 2006, at 21:31:39
In reply to Therapy Hurts, posted by daisym on September 1, 2006, at 19:44:23
I would have been crushed by those words too. I was hurt when I said I wished my mom was normal, and my T said, "Well, I think that's the little girl part of you talking and thinking magically, what do you think you can do concretely to try to normalize your relationship with your mother?" I just felt like he was saying I wasn't allowed to wish that. Lately he's been really challenging anything I say where I am asking questions like "Why is my life so hard? Why can't my family be normal?" because the asking stage is kinding of making me stuck from making any changes.
And I've asked my T a hundred times if he's sick of me, and he keeps saying no, and then I worry he's going to be sick of me for asking if he's sick of me. He's been talking a lot about my need to do therapy 'right' lately and telling me that there is no right way to do therapy, or some days he just tells me I am doing fine, there is no wrong way to do it, I'm trying really hard, etc.
Well, this post turned into all about me, but I just wanted to let you know I understand. And the 'supposed tos' and the 'shoulds' are really hard. And it's really hard when you want to do therapy right but there are no rules.
(((((((daisym))))))))
sunnydays
Posted by cecilia on September 1, 2006, at 21:49:35
In reply to Re: Therapy Hurts, posted by sunnydays on September 1, 2006, at 21:31:39
My ex-T used to say that garbage about there being no "right" way to do therapy when there obviously was, she just wouldn't tell me what it was, but when I got it wrong, which I usually did, she made it pretty obvious. The whole thing is a very expensive mind game. Cecilia
Posted by annierose on September 1, 2006, at 22:40:29
In reply to Therapy Hurts, posted by daisym on September 1, 2006, at 19:44:23
I don't think there is a right choice or a wrong choice. There may be a choice that feels better for you --- neither door #1 or door #2 has a prize behind it (darn) --- both are work.
Door #1 = work w/T with current schedule
Door #2 = work w/T with a change in schedule
Your T wants to talk with you about your choices, your thought process into each of them. He doesn't want to kick you out the door. Truly he doesn't. I know that to be true. Sometimes Ts uses words or phrases that are loaded, not intentionally.
I wished I thought more like Dinah. "Hey - there are phases, no one clued me in. What one am I leaving, what one am I going into and what's the next one after that?" T would think twice about saying that again.
I'm sorry the weekend will seem so long. Soak up the time with your son. Is he far away? My daughter is going into 7th grade and at dinner she was talking about college applications --- my oh my -- before I know it ...
(((((((((daisy))))))))))))
Your T thinks the world of you. Keep those good sessions in your head. Don't quit. You'll want to go back and it will be hard to get the good appointment times that work out with your life schedule!!
Posted by Dinah on September 1, 2006, at 22:50:20
In reply to Re: Therapy Hurts » daisym, posted by annierose on September 1, 2006, at 22:40:29
> T would think twice about saying that again.
Gotta admit, that's partly why I do it. ;)
Then to make sure, I bring it up several times over the next few sessions until it's transformed into an "in" joke between us, or until he never wants to hear the offending phrase again. Either way, I win.
I'm naughty. Good for catching me on it. :)
Posted by Poet on September 1, 2006, at 22:58:07
In reply to Therapy Hurts, posted by daisym on September 1, 2006, at 19:44:23
Hi Daisy,
*At this stage in your therapy?* To use out of date slang say what? I've been in therapy for four years and it never dawned on me I'm supposed to be at a certain stage. I guess I missed the stage and am walking across the prairie.
Therapy does hurt, but there are good moments. Really. My T called me today and she's on vacation. That makes up for more than anything she's said that hurt me. You have the same kind of moments with your T, call them up when it hurts.
Safe cyber hugs.
Poet
Posted by happyflower on September 2, 2006, at 14:25:07
In reply to Therapy Hurts, posted by daisym on September 1, 2006, at 19:44:23
Oh, no! I hope your T isn't going to start off the chain of devestation for us babblers. It seems like when one T acts like an *ss, the others follow suit and I need a good session on Tues.
I really think he wasn't thinking what he was saying at the moment. He knows better. I am sure when you bring it to his attention (and I know you will) he will be clobbering himself upside the head for hurting little daisy. Things will be okay. When is your next session?
Posted by antigua on September 3, 2006, at 7:55:37
In reply to Therapy Hurts, posted by daisym on September 1, 2006, at 19:44:23
Daisy,
I'm sorry that it hurts so much. Usually that means we're getting better, but why does it have to be so hard.
How about we go back to the closet and reorganize your shoes? would that help?
It does get better, I promise, but I know that doesn't make it any easier.
I'm thinking of you,
all my best,
antigua
Posted by llrrrpp on September 3, 2006, at 8:49:54
In reply to Therapy Hurts, posted by daisym on September 1, 2006, at 19:44:23
>>He said yesterday that the decisions are mine to make..."at this stage in your therapy" and I was crushed by these words. I think I figured out why -- I want to know what he thinks and would do because I want to do "what is right" -- even if it >>hurts.
-----------------------------------------------
My T is tough like this too. He was telling me things like this in the very first weeks of the first therapy I'd ever done in my wee little life. So, I'm not sure that there are stages or whatnot. Maybe my T saw more strength in me than I knew I had. Maybe my T took a risk, and it paid off.The only problem with this is that the sessions where I am confronted with something so ugly, and so true, and so long denied (like when he tells me something that can be summarized: you're making these decisions because you want to be depressed. You are choosing to be depressed, and that's *your* fight).
It hurts SO bad. Because I feel so utterly abandoned by my own mind. I feel like I don't know myself, because I've been confronted for the first time with the possibility that my entire mental illness, indeed my existence is a homunculus watching a puppet show- nothing real, just some illusion that I've been mesmerized by for too long. And the worst thing is that the homunculus is working the puppets too!
This is what happened to me only a few days ago. Confronted with the truth that I'm living inside a puppet theater, I had to make the decision to open a door into some unknown- what exists outside of the puppet theater? what if there's nothing? what if I no longer exist? what if it kills me? what if I'll be all alone.
It sure would have been easier to have someone hold my hand and open the door for me. I guess that's not what the T had in mind. He wanted me to open the door myself.
It's nasty work. So very very awful. So lonely inside my own mind. Nobody to understand, no way to communicate, if I don't even know what it is that I'm communicating. But, I feel a little bit stronger every day. It's not like this every week. Sometimes it's more light-hearted. Sometimes we talk about how I can get along better in specific situations. But how to get along better inside my own mind. well. that's really difficult.
-ll
Posted by Daisym on September 4, 2006, at 11:32:53
In reply to Re: Therapy Hurts ... OUCH!! » daisym, posted by finelinebob on September 1, 2006, at 20:11:06
***Because you're peeling your "onion" of defense mechanisms and maladaptive behaviors that got you to where you are today.****
I read recently that "problem" behaviors were "solution" behaviors, once upon a time. Which is why they are so hard to change...they served an important, most likely protective purpose. My son's therapist uses the metaphor of the onion often quoting Shrek: "Ogres are like onions, we have LAYERS!"
***It all hurts. But like setting a compound fracture or a dislocated shoulder, it has to hurt before it can get better ... unless you (self-)medicate until you're numb. I'd rather take the pain -- relying on that machotruism that as long as you're feeling pain, you know you're still alive. Plus, acknowledging pain is one thing, rooting out its source is quite another. ****
I'm pretty clear about the source these days. I've protected myself for so long that I'm in no-man's-land, lost and struggling to trust my guides along the way. I want my guides to carry me but they can't or they will die too. I'm pretty good most of the time with the pain. But this weekend I've elected to numb. Too many hits all at the same time. Maybe I don't want to feel because I have no need to confirm that I'm still alive. The question is, is this living?
Posted by Daisym on September 4, 2006, at 11:33:27
In reply to Re: Therapy Hurts » daisym, posted by orchid on September 1, 2006, at 20:22:29
Thanks. I hope you are well too.
Posted by Daisym on September 4, 2006, at 12:41:57
In reply to Re: Therapy Hurts » daisym, posted by Dinah on September 1, 2006, at 21:27:16
*****What did you say when he said that?
*****I think I'd have squeaked something like "What phase is that? When did I change phases? Why didn't I get a diploma or something? You just can't go changing phases without telling a client! There needs to be a line of demarcation."
******But I suppose it's healthier to feel good about your progress and your therapist's acknowledgement of it. :(******
What did I say? I apologized, of course. I should have known that I was "here" instead of "there" -- I was mortified. Inside I was squeaking everything you wrote, including "I knew it! I knew there was some secret set of rules about progress, etc." But it was at the end of the session so he didn't have much chance to pull that out of me.
I wish I felt proud of myself, and i wish this felt like progress. It simply feels like another one of those times where I've created drama and then bumped into a boundary wall that I didn't know was there. And that wall has a mirror on it, and I see that I've got a boger hanging out of my nose -- and instantly I know he has seen it hanging there for a while. So now what? I either pick my nose and get rid of it (in a ladylike way, of course) and we both know I am too embarrassed to talk about it or we talk about why he didn't tell me it was there and in my mortification I get angry. Neither appeal to me.
Posted by Daisym on September 4, 2006, at 12:47:21
In reply to Re: Therapy Hurts, posted by sunnydays on September 1, 2006, at 21:31:39
I hate when my therapist turns on the problem solving channel and I'm still over at the Hallmark channel. But he is pretty good about recognizing that he has done that and will acknowledge that all I wanted was tea and sympathy. And then again, he will note that therapy isn't always a feel-good endeavor. To really get anything out of it, it hurts sometimes.
I think I've come to realize that it isn't that *I* think there is a right or wrong way to do therapy -- I think *he* thinks there is a right and wrong way. So if I don't know what he is thinking, how can I do what he wants me to? This is my basic pathology. I know where it comes from but changing it is super hard.
Thanks for the support. I'm sorry you understand and can relate so well.
Posted by Daisym on September 4, 2006, at 12:48:36
In reply to Re: Therapy Hurts, posted by cecilia on September 1, 2006, at 21:49:35
Ouch. Doesn't sound like your therapy was helpful. Sorry you had a bad experience.
Posted by Daisym on September 4, 2006, at 12:52:51
In reply to Re: Therapy Hurts » daisym, posted by annierose on September 1, 2006, at 22:40:29
I don't want to quit and yet I can't figure out how to get back to work. It is all so stupid and selfish. Do I really want to cut back? Do I need to? Would it make life better?
And this isn't even the real issue. It is a test -- again--- "are you sick of me yet? Will you let me self-destruct?"
My son is about 7 hours away - on the beach. He loves it and is convinced that someday he will be President of the US. He just might make it, he has the ego for it. I miss him, this house is too quiet. But we will adjust.
Posted by Daisym on September 4, 2006, at 12:56:34
In reply to Re: Therapy Hurts » daisym, posted by Poet on September 1, 2006, at 22:58:07
I'm so glad she called you!! I like her - she's really hung in there with you.
I've come to realize over the weekend that the hurting part is all about me and what I want and what I can't have. He didn't really do anything hurtful, except crush a fantasy or two. Reality is what hurts.
But isn't that why I'm in therapy? To help my inside world work with the outside world...it is just building the bridge between that feels like it is too hard and too much work.
Posted by Daisym on September 4, 2006, at 12:59:20
In reply to Re: Therapy Hurts » daisym, posted by happyflower on September 2, 2006, at 14:25:07
Like I said to Poet, he really wasn't hurtful. He certainly wasn't acting like an @ss! He was inquiring and explaining -- it just hit me wrong because I don't want to grow up! :(
I hope you have a good session tomorrow.
Posted by Daisym on September 4, 2006, at 13:01:26
In reply to Re: Therapy Hurts » daisym, posted by antigua on September 3, 2006, at 7:55:37
Thanks for saying that, Antigua.
What does it mean that I'm resisting acknowledging that I'm getting better, stronger?
My closet is organized -- my mother's coming to visit!
How are things with your therapist still away? I hope you will come here for support when you need it.
hugs,
Daisy
Posted by Daisym on September 4, 2006, at 13:15:25
In reply to Re: Therapy Hurts » daisym, posted by llrrrpp on September 3, 2006, at 8:49:54
*******It sure would have been easier to have someone hold my hand and open the door for me. I guess that's not what the T had in mind. He wanted me to open the door myself.
It's nasty work. So very very awful. So lonely inside my own mind. Nobody to understand, no way to communicate, if I don't even know what it is that I'm communicating. But, I feel a little bit stronger every day. It's not like this every week. Sometimes it's more light-hearted. Sometimes we talk about how I can get along better in specific situations. But how to get along better inside my own mind. well. that's really difficult. *********
This all sounds very difficult and painful. Knowing who we are is the key to peace and the foundation on which to make life choices. I have found that who I thought I was isn't really true. There is relief in that and terror -- if not that, then what?
I've been lucky. I've been in therapy for three years. The first year we spent building trust and a vocabulary for my feelings. I finally told him about the abuse in my childhood - something I had no intention of doing. I fell apart completely and he held on to me, kept me together enough to keep going. The past two years have been tumultuous, to say the least. We ripped away all the false selves in a slow, painful way. He lent me his core-strength, and he allowed a sometimes smothering attachment. I feel for him what I've never felt for anyone and I'm astonished that I have the ability to feel these deep feelings for anyone.
So we've worked up to this. I know he sees strength and abilities that I don't. Or maybe, like I said above, growing up is hard. I never really was allowed to be a scared little kid when I actually was one. Is is possible to want to relive that now?
I completely agree that it is painful and scary to see how we have self-created a great deal of our own angst. Even in your own mind, you aren't alone if you force yourself to share it with your therapist. I'm glad you have found someone to help you walk out of the house of mirrors and create a new reality. I have faith that you will find your way.
Posted by happyflower on September 5, 2006, at 18:04:43
In reply to Re: Therapy Hurts » happyflower, posted by Daisym on September 4, 2006, at 12:59:20
Sorry Daisy I said those things about your T, I shouldn't of done that. I hope you are not mad at me. If you could see me, you would see a foot in my mouth. I truely am sorry.
Posted by llrrrpp on September 5, 2006, at 18:19:59
In reply to Re: Therapy Hurts, posted by Daisym on September 4, 2006, at 13:15:25
Daisym,
What I'm scared of is not finding my way out of the house of mirrors. I'm scared of finding that what's on the outside is worse than what I have right now.And today we talked about two ways out. One is suicide. One is doing the hard thing that I've been putting off for a year. Well. I guess suicide is not an easy way out. apparently it's not easy at all. Now that's a downer.
Maybe being stuck between a rock and a hard place is kind of cozy. so why do I feel so bad?
-ll
Posted by finelinebob on September 5, 2006, at 20:41:13
In reply to Re: Therapy Hurts, suicide trigger ** » Daisym, posted by llrrrpp on September 5, 2006, at 18:19:59
> Maybe being stuck between a rock and a hard place is kind of cozy. so why do I feel so bad?
Maybe because being stuck between a rock and a hard place isn't so cozy.
Posted by llrrrpp on September 5, 2006, at 23:13:50
In reply to Re: Therapy Hurts, suicide trigger ** » llrrrpp, posted by finelinebob on September 5, 2006, at 20:41:13
> > Maybe being stuck between a rock and a hard place is kind of cozy. so why do I feel so bad?
>
> Maybe because being stuck between a rock and a hard place isn't so cozy.Even if I bring my blankie?
(sniffles), because it's gotten dark, and I just want to stay the night in the shelter of the rock and hard place. It's become home to me.
Posted by finelinebob on September 6, 2006, at 20:48:35
In reply to Re: Therapy Hurts, suicide trigger ** » finelinebob, posted by llrrrpp on September 5, 2006, at 23:13:50
> > > Maybe being stuck between a rock and a hard place is kind of cozy. so why do I feel so bad?
> >
> > Maybe because being stuck between a rock and a hard place isn't so cozy.
>
> Even if I bring my blankie?
>
> (sniffles), because it's gotten dark, and I just want to stay the night in the shelter of the rock and hard place. It's become home to me.Okay to rest there, blankies make it more comfortable. But don't wait till you cramp up and can't move.
Posted by llrrrpp on September 6, 2006, at 21:21:01
In reply to Re: Therapy Hurts, suicide trigger **, posted by finelinebob on September 6, 2006, at 20:48:35
Okay. Sounds like a deal.
I went to the beach today. I found beach glass treasures.
Tomorrow I'll go out and get some work done to make the hard place a little softer, the rock a little smaller.
I guess little by little until I'll be standing tall between a smooshie blob and a speck of sand.
-ll
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