![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Racer on August 31, 2006, at 14:10:34
I'm a bit better today, but feel kinda hungover from yesterday. I cried through not one, but TWO sessions -- individual, and marriage. And I can't tell you which was worse.
The individual therapy hasn't been going much of anywhere lately. I just haven't felt connected to it, somehow, lately. And for various reasons lately have been thinking I wanted to quit. At least for a while.
Well, yesterday something hit hard -- we were talking about physical therapy. My physical therapy involves a lot of touching, including something where the physical terrorist straps my upper leg to his waist and rotates my leg while using his body to pull on my hip. What I'm trying to get across is that it's not a little touching now and again, and it's not a bit of touching, say, just below my knee. My problem with it isn't sexual, it's just that someone's hands are on me. My T asked if it would be easier with a woman, but it wouldn't. In fact, I think the women I've seen there would probably bother me even more. It's the species, not the gender -- if they could get, say, a bonobo to do it...
So this week, my PT will be away on Friday. The other time this happened, I cancelled my appointment. I was talking to my T about whether it was OK for me to cancel again, and that started us talking about it. And she seemed to be leaning towards "if it's helping you, don't cancel." And that set me off, floods and floods. I can't even tell what scares me about it. But I know I feel nauseous just thinking about it, and when I try to imagine it actually happening -- well, let's not go there, huh?
I know that part of my upset is just plain the "Hey, I scheduled with one PT, why was I shifted to another without any warning?" That does bother me. And it's not as though I haven't SAID to this PT that it's very hard for me to allow someone to touch me. I've told him that, because especially at first I would react to something he did not because it hurt, but because I'd hit critical mass as far as contact went. And no matter how much they may think that it doesn't matter who's doing it -- it does. To me.
Oh -- that just started the waterworks again. I think part of this is the "it bothers me, but it shouldn't, so I can't tell them it does..." The "I have to take it, put up with it, I can't tell them how much it bothers me."
And you know the worst part? I'm not sure I have it in me today to tell my T that, because I'm afraid she'll tell me it would be good for me to say that to them. I don't know which scares me more: telling them it's a problem, or just keeping my mouth shut and letting someone else touch me.
I think I'm going to make this a two parter, because I can see I'm getting long here. I'll put the marriage counseling part in a separate post.
All this, by the way, is probably related to the fact that my anxiety is out of control lately. Much worse than it has been. Dunno what's up with that...
Posted by Racer on August 31, 2006, at 14:24:32
In reply to Whoa -- where did that come from? (Part 1 - long), posted by Racer on August 31, 2006, at 14:10:34
And then, after that session -- which didn't really finish, so we scheduled another for today -- I had to run across town and pick up my husband to drive up to our marriage counseling session. He works just down the road from a Walgreens, and needed some Mucinex, and had asked me if I would stop by and pick some up. I kinda felt resentful about that, because he works right there! I was pressed that day -- school, individual therapy, then pick him up for MC. (And I have trouble with the local Walgreens, so I'd have to drive all the way up there -- two towns away -- in order to get it anyway. Agoraphobia is much worse lately...) So, I was kinda feeling invisible, or unimportant anyway.
Last week, we had had a rough time over something that had happened that past weekend. I was sick, and had laid down for a nap. I'd finally gotten to sleep, and then hubby woke me up to find out how to do laundry. I was upset about that, because he sleeps on the sofa all day on weekends, and I try not to bother him. Then, I get half an hour, when I'm sick, and he can't even let me be then. HIS needs matter, mine don't.
Anyway, that session involved gently asking him if he'd considered my needs, and me being asked to "see that he was trying to help" -- which I couldn't, since this sort of thing has happened too many other times, so I felt very childish saying that, but felt it would not be true to say that I thought he was trying to help. I thought -- and think -- that he was just trying to make sure his own needs were met, and I just didn't matter. I finally compromised, and felt as though I was in the wrong, by saying that I thought it was good that, knowing how sensitive I am about laundry, he had asked how, rather than risking a mishap. I felt very childish and resentful that I couldn't just say, "Yes, I think he was trying to be helpful."
So last night, I brought up something that had happened that morning -- hubby slept through his alarm again, and snapped at me for trying to get him to turn it off. I copped to being childish by getting up while leaving my alarm set.
The MC asked me what I wanted? I couldn't answer that, and of course took it to mean that I was being unreasonable to ask for anything different. Turns out, that's not what she was getting at. She wanted me to ask for my needs to be met. And she wanted me to ask my husband to meet them.
I didn't realize how much of a problem that was for me, but it set me off in a big way. I don't know what scares me so much about it, but it's definitely up there with things like ursus horribilus, and Republicans in my pantheon of Scary Monsters. Part, of course, is not knowing what it is I do want. Part, I think maybe, is being so afraid that I'm not allowed to want something. Part is that I'll get in trouble, or that I'll be abandoned if I ask for anything, or just that I won't get it? I don't know.
But the end result of these two sessions was that I cried so much I got sick. Felt horrible all night, and woke up hungover from crying. And now, typing all this, I'm crying again. Guess I'm primed for therapy this afternoon, huh?
S-U-X. Guess it's going around, though, if Lurpsie's post is anything to go by...
Posted by muffled on August 31, 2006, at 18:15:07
In reply to Whoa -- where did that come from? (Part 1 - long), posted by Racer on August 31, 2006, at 14:10:34
Not sure if I got it right. But your supposed to let another pt touch you in that way?
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
I don't think so.
WHY?????????????????????????????????
If there were no other options then of course you will have to, but if you don't absolutely HAVE to, then why do it?
Just for torture??????????????
It is torture.
I once was given a massage as a gift.
It was AWFUL.(I didn't say it that way)
I think I ended up dissociating thru alot of it, and came out more tense than ever.
No.
Touch thats is hurtful and not absoluted needed should be avoided plain and simple.
Sorry if I sounding mean, but it got to me.
Mebbe your stronger than me.
Mebbe you can dissociate thru it.
Maybe you can.....................I'll get blocked.........
Anyhow.
Take care.
Muffled
Posted by llrrrpp on August 31, 2006, at 18:38:44
In reply to Re: Whoa -- where did that come from? (Part 1 - long) » Racer, posted by muffled on August 31, 2006, at 18:15:07
Yah, Racer
it's going around. sorry to spread the cheer.do you need the appt? What are the pros of going?
not dissappointing the terrorist organization
not dissappointing your particular P. terrorist
possibly getting hip relief
possibly feeling better about yourself because you are strong and 'survive' the appt.what are the cons?
feeling bad for the hours leading up to the appt.
further trauma during session with new Pterrorist
your T accusing you of being contrary?
mental unhealth following the appt.
new Pterrorist does something funky to your hipgot some more to add? In either category?
Well- your decision. I think the cons are stronger, but if you are a glutton for punishment, the pros will probably win.
Racer, can you call your Pterrorist and ask for exercises to do at home? or stretches your DH can help you with? the therapeutic benefits of lump-free gravy?
I'm sure there are other options than damned if you do- damned if you don't. Now I'm going to go home. Maybe I'll see Dr. Bob in my peripheral vision. It's been one of those unreal days. I want his dermatologist. His pregnancy glow is making me jealous. I've been seeing little twinkles in my R. visual field. Dr. Bob, is that you? Maybe it's just my striate cortex, having a little party without my permission.
-ll
Posted by Racer on August 31, 2006, at 20:32:48
In reply to Re: Whoa -- where did that come from? (Part 1 - l » muffled, posted by llrrrpp on August 31, 2006, at 18:38:44
>
> Well- your decision. I think the cons are stronger, but if you are a glutton for punishment, the pros will probably win.See, the thing is, I have to Be Perfect, yah know? If I cancel, and tell them that I would prefer being rescheduled than transferred to another PT, that shows that I'm "too weak" to be a correct patient. I have to get over it. Why? I don't know. I only know that things like this do trigger that Be Perfect thing.
What we kinda decided today, though, is that I'm going to try to hold in my mind that, if I have a problem with it tomorrow, I can leave. Just because I show up, doesn't mean I have to stay. I can tell the other PT that I'm uncomfortable being touched, that it's hard for me to relax, and that he needs to be on the lookout for me to say "No more." And, maybe the fact that I can get up and leave will allow me to stay.
>
> Racer, can you call your Pterrorist and ask for exercises to do at home? or stretches your DH can help you with? the therapeutic benefits of lump-free gravy?I do a lot of exercises at home, that's most of my treatment. The sessions in the clinic are mostly made up of him manipulating my leg, mostly with the strap around it. Some new stuff involves pressing on my butt, too, which is uncomfortable, but a little easier for me. (Probably because I don't see him while he does it, or maybe because he can't see my fat belly when I'm lying on it.)
I'm not sure their position on gravy, lumpy or otherwise. Maybe I should ask?
>
> I'm sure there are other options than damned if you do- damned if you don't.Yeah, well, there might be... Dunno what they are, but there might be...
Thanks for your response.
(And a thank you to Muffled, too.)
Posted by Racer on August 31, 2006, at 21:02:44
In reply to Re: Whoa -- where did that come from? (Part 1 - l, posted by Racer on August 31, 2006, at 20:32:48
In fact, today I broke down into that completely painful sobbing that scares me so much. My T said I finally let myself go, but only for a minute, and I'm going to need to do a lot more of that. I'm not looking forward to that.
But lately I've been disconnected from therapy, and at least the past two days I've been connected again. Guess I was just doing the AvoiDance again...
Posted by llrrrpp on August 31, 2006, at 21:46:32
In reply to Re: Whoa -- where did that come from? (Part 1 - l, posted by Racer on August 31, 2006, at 20:32:48
>
> What we kinda decided today, though, is that I'm going to try to hold in my mind that, if I have a problem with it tomorrow, I can leave. Just because I show up, doesn't mean I have to stay. I can tell the other PT that I'm uncomfortable being touched, that it's hard for me to relax, and that he needs to be on the lookout for me to say "No more." And, maybe the fact that I can get up and leave will allow me to stay.That's a fantastic option! And the best thing is that it's really good practice to assert yourself and tell a PT that you demand that your body be treated with respect and caring.
I wish I had this option at the salon. I would have walked out on so many humiliating hairdressers. But the problem at the salon is that you have to pay, and if you walk out with your hair half cut, it's tricky to negotiate a discount and retain any kind of dignity whatsoever.
Racer, you'll be strong. your feelings will tell you if something doesn't feel right, just say- I've gotta go home now. thank you very much. nice to meet you.
-ll
Posted by Jost on August 31, 2006, at 22:09:17
In reply to Re: Whoa -- where did that come from? (Part 1 - l » Racer, posted by llrrrpp on August 31, 2006, at 21:46:32
Racer, go to the substitute PT, if you've got to-- but there are two ways of slicing that loaf of bread. It would also be great if you cancelled-- a tremendous sign of progress, of standing up for yourself, etc.
(I don't mean to confuse the issue, now that it's resolved. but - I have this "dam*ed if you do, da*ned if you don't" syndromes, in which there's always an upside and a downside to any action-- and that downside will be exactly what I think about--so I hope you won't do that.)
At a PT, I could never walk out-- I'd be too self-conscious-- I'd feel the need to pretend that I was fine-- even if my head was screaming "get yourself (and me) out of this place asap."
I don't mean to go all ballistic on your husband-- but what is this How do I do the wash thing?
My Sig O will say stuff like, how do you replace a bulb? (well not quite)-- but "how do you know if the vegetables are cooked?" and I try to say, in as pleasant a voice as possible-- that 1. "you look at them, and if they look cooked, you try one, and if it tastes cooked, it is. Although you might want to make sure they all look like that one..." and 2. "what, am I a crystal ball, do I have a special line to the vegetables, though which they tell me if they're cooked? I mean, why am I supposed to know any more than you do???"
But I'm more than a little short-tempered. And easily spun out of control.
And by the way, who said he was " helping out?" who said he wasn't doing the laundry, cause it needed to be done?
Okay, I'm a crank.
I'll be much more sympathetic about this all in my next post. (See below, soon.)
Jost
Posted by llrrrpp on August 31, 2006, at 22:35:08
In reply to Re: Whoa -- where did that come from? Racer, posted by Jost on August 31, 2006, at 22:09:17
Or- honey, how do I get to the little house on my computer.
you click on the smiling face in your dock
what's the dock?
(we've had a mac for 4 years now...)
I think we had a great string of these going for a while on relationships board. I'm going to dig it up for nostalgia's sake. In honor of curtm's wife, who cannot slice a tomato...
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/relate/20060511/msgs/645612.html
-ll
Posted by Daisym on September 1, 2006, at 1:09:48
In reply to Whoa -- where did that come from? (Part 1 - long), posted by Racer on August 31, 2006, at 14:10:34
******So this week, my PT will be away on Friday. The other time this happened, I cancelled my appointment. I was talking to my T about whether it was OK for me to cancel again, and that started us talking about it. And she seemed to be leaning towards "if it's helping you, don't cancel." And that set me off, floods and floods. I can't even tell what scares me about it. But I know I feel nauseous just thinking about it, and when I try to imagine it actually happening -- well, let's not go there, huh?
****((((Racer))))
I'm sorry for the floods. I could be way out in left field -- OK, I know I usually am -- but my first hit on this was that your therapist didn't step up and protect you. She didn't tell little racer that she didn't have to let anyone touch her, especially someone new, someone you don' trust. And to leave you to have to tell yet another person "don't touch too much" - well, that sets me off. She should have, imo, helped you feel comfortable choosing to not do something that you thought you should do, but something that was too hard right now.I could have written your Part II post -- asking to get my needs met is the quickest way to a terror-fest for me. I think the reasons are all that you listed, including and especially, "I'm not supposed to have needs."
I'm glad you feel reconnected though. That is important. I give you permission to cancel tomorrow and if not that, then to cut it short if you need to. I also give you permission to stay and be Ok with the touching. Not all touching is bad, you know? I mean, cats seem to like it...
Posted by Racer on September 1, 2006, at 1:50:43
In reply to Re: Whoa -- where did that come from? (Part 1 - long), posted by Daisym on September 1, 2006, at 1:09:48
>> I'm sorry for the floods. I could be way out in left field -- OK, I know I usually am -- but my first hit on this was that your therapist didn't step up and protect you. She didn't tell little racer that she didn't have to let anyone touch her, especially someone new, someone you don' trust.
I think that's part of it. I felt as though I was asking NOT to do it, and instead she kinda pushed me in the direction of doing the hard thing, the "grown up" thing. She never said don't do it, or do do it -- just, "that depends on whether you think it's helping you."
She did tell me, though, that she's tried several PTs herself, and now cancels if she can't get the one she likes.
I've also talked myself into hoping I like this fill in better than the one I'm seeing now... In which case, maybe I'll see about switching. The guy whom I'm seeing now does a lot of what I hope is supposed to be good natured teasing. Which doesn't come across that way to me. It just feels dismissive and contemptuous. Although, again, I really don't think he means it that way. But then again -- it's very familiar to me, and I find myself trying so very hard to exceed expectations...
>
> I could have written your Part II post -- asking to get my needs met is the quickest way to a terror-fest for me. I think the reasons are all that you listed, including and especially, "I'm not supposed to have needs."We talked about that today, too. My T keeps saying that I was smart enough, as a kid, to try very hard not to have needs, in order to please my mother. After all, I was so smart, I was supposed to be above needs.
Or something.
And anyway, my mother was narcissistic enough that she would never have met my needs anyway.
>
> I'm glad you feel reconnected though. That is important. I give you permission to cancel tomorrow and if not that, then to cut it short if you need to. I also give you permission to stay and be Ok with the touching. Not all touching is bad, you know? I mean, cats seem to like it...
>
>I guess I'm glad, too. It's so damned painful, though! My head is killing me, from crying so much. I actually got into the crying that she wants me to do, but had to come out of it quickly.
Ugh.
I want this to be OVER!
Posted by llrrrpp on September 1, 2006, at 7:49:34
In reply to Re: Whoa -- where did that come from? (Part 1 - l » Daisym, posted by Racer on September 1, 2006, at 1:50:43
((((((Racer))))))
There is an thermodynamic balance in the world. Only so many tears can be shed at a given moment in our universe. I think you've carried this burden your fair share. You can pass it on to somebody else now. I haven't cried in a whole 24 hours. I figure it's my turn.-ll
snifflie
Posted by Daisym on September 1, 2006, at 10:13:27
In reply to Re: Whoa -- where did that come from? (Part 1 - l » Daisym, posted by Racer on September 1, 2006, at 1:50:43
Ok -- I have to ask -- what is your vision of OVER?? I'm trying hard to imagine the end point but all I see is the cliff that I slide over... into nothingness...sort of a continual falling but without bouncing off the sides. I need a replacement image because it is hard to look forward to nothing.
Sorry, I'm not in a good place. I'm feeling abandoned for the long weekend and my kid is leaving for college again. You'd think I'd be used to it. I'll write more below so I don't hi-jack your thread.
I'm sending you strength. Let us know how today goes.
Posted by llrrrpp on September 1, 2006, at 10:37:40
In reply to Re: Whoa -- where did that come from? (Part 1 - l, posted by Daisym on September 1, 2006, at 10:13:27
> Ok -- I have to ask -- what is your vision of OVER?? I'm trying hard to imagine the end point but all I see is the cliff that I slide over... into nothingness...sort of a continual falling but without bouncing off the sides. I need a replacement image because it is hard to look forward to nothing.
I just read a really nice synopsis of the Greek Mythology of Psyche. Her story has a few really interesting moments that take place at the tops of cliffs and mountains looking down. There are a lot of possibilities there. I would love to link it, but I fear that some of the content may be disturbing, so I'll just say that if you google "psyche greek mythology" you should find it at the top of the list.
I think it's amazing that this ancient story is still resonant with the modern soul struggling against the dark parts of human nature.
hugs to you AllDone and Daisym. I'm sorry that my earlier post was so garbled. It was the best I could do at the moment.
-ll
my T still hasn't replied to my 2 emails this week. I guess I should forget about it. Maybe he'll find a minute to write back a line or two. Maybe he wants me to be strong and work through this on my own. Well. time will tell.
Posted by llrrrpp on September 1, 2006, at 10:48:35
In reply to Re: Whoa -- where did that come from? (Part 1 - l » Daisym, posted by llrrrpp on September 1, 2006, at 10:37:40
((((Racer))))
I got mixed up and thought that i was reading AllDone's thread. I'm so careless. Well. you all three deserve hugs. Everyone deserves hugs.I'm giving little mini hugs today, 'cause that's what I've got available. Can't muster up too much love without breaking myself, but the bit that I've got, I'm going to spread it around.
hope your pt thing goes well. I think my pt may be catching on that i haven't done my homework in 3 months. I just need to make it part of my routine again. The problem is that I'm supposed to do this for about 6 months to learn the basics, and I'm on month 7, and I've noticed that my progress has slowed. I'm sure he'd try more advanced stuff, if he thought we were ready, but I'm just wasting an hour. Oh, sure we like to chat. We get on fabulously, but in terms of me using my noggin to apply this stuff in my everyday life. well.
I have to say though, that PT has been pretty therapeutic to my psyche. For one thing, I have gotten comfortable with a man touching my body. I have gotten over the fact that I might do something to embarass myself, like fall on my *ss, or take him down with me. I have even gotten to the point where I'll allow myself to relenquish control over my limbs, so that he can take charge and explore the range of motion without my resistance. And the scariest part of all- which is still very much a work in progress- is to explore what happens when I'm taken out of equilibrium. For instance, when I have to lean back, ever so slightly, and allow him to take on (part) of my weight and support me so that I don't topple. Can I trust? Can I relenquish control over that basic function? Some days I can, (600mg of Fukitol) and some days I'm a quivering mass of anxiety, and we have to try several times to get me to relax and not fight it. It's tough Racer, to train our bodies to give up old habits. Don't be too hard on yourself if a strange PT makes you uncomfortable. I think that's totally normal.
-ll
Posted by Jost on September 1, 2006, at 22:01:59
In reply to Whoa -- where did that come from? (Part 1 - long), posted by Racer on August 31, 2006, at 14:10:34
This reminds me of something that I'm trying to formulate.
For example, when you say that you "should" do x, or y.
Or your T was "leaning toward" your doing x or y.
Or that it's not so much the appointment, but that they shifted you from one PT to another without consulting,
or that your PT makes remarks that bother you
or that you don't know whether to let them know that it bothers you, by cancelling, or by saying that you don't want to stay, or whether you should just keep it to yourself, so they don't know.
( I know that in a later post, you had decided to go.)
What strikes me, is that your focus is on what someone else is going to think, or is thinking (ie that made them think it was okay to shift you without consulting, or to make jokes that bother you)--when I feel things like that (for example, today, in a situation myself), I think it comes from the experience (probably in childhood, very early childhood, and then all along) of not having any sort of boundaries or rules (not bad rules, but helpful, making-sense-of-situation rules) for living.
When I was growing up, my father would always say that there was no "right" way, that it all depending on what I wanted to do. Which sounds enlightened-- and maybe which is, at a certain point in one's life, for oneself. But which isn't at all for a child. I'm assuming this is only a late,(e articulated when I was capable of being articulated to--ie about the age of 7, which is itself absurd) version of something that was inherent all along.
The things is that
first, people like my father did, in fact, think there was a right way-- in fact most of the time, he was highly intolerant of most of what people did-- so it was entirely incredible to me that he really believed that there wasn't a right way suddenly-- it was more as if he didn't want to bother helping me figure it out-- or, earlier, figuring it out and helping me to live within his version (and reasons) of rightness
second, there are social rules-- kind of modes of behavior, and reasoning that are very helpful-- whether you want to call it courtesy, decorum, respect, or just morality-- there are social standards-- and while one might not want to conform to them ultimately, it's very useful to have a set of them--
at least at a basic level== to refer back to, to rely upon and use, to feel situated in and imginatively validated by one's social context.
It isn't any good to feel that everything is always up for grabs-- it's good to be able to identify a set of seemingly solid rules, with which one may agree or disagree--to fall back on, and to use as a sort of non-self-indulgent, non-personal structure.
I wish I could explain this better. I probably could if I spent time revising this-- (sorry I'm sort of tired)--
but if you don't have this, then you (or I or one) tends to live in a sort of practical-morality chaos, and disorganizaion--- to always have to make it up, and never to know from moment to moment, how to grasp and adapt to your own purposes, some non-personal appropriate (but of course, chosen and modified, re-thought, or reembodied) way of being.
In this chaos, one tries to figure out-- is it okay-- all the time; what impact will this have on other people (in this social world that has never been translated), what will it mean about me-- all the time telling yourself that you should know, that you shouldn't "care" about what other people think, because it's weak and inadequate to be shaped by "their" conformist, or dimished idea of what one should be-- and that you should impose whatever answer should already have been completely, unquestionably, and without any trouble obvious to you. (and by the way, since it wasn't, you're very defective already)
I don't know how to get something like that, if you don't have it. The absence of it, though, always leaves you in a quandry about whether it's "okay" to do something, or is a horrible evasion, self-indulgence, or weakness. And also, the absence means you've never had something to inform your choices, so they feel right, and you can start to live through them, even if they are uncomfortable. If they are right, then you learn to make them right for you-- rather than getting so confused about whether it's your fault, or their fault, for not quite feeling okay.
There isn't any possibility of being perfect in that universe-- because there's no sufficiently formed idea of anything-- against which to measure one's level of success. Although it can come across as perfectionism--
I'll try to restate this tomorrow, if I have the energy and get enough sleep.
It's a huge problem for me, anyway.
Jost
Posted by Poet on September 2, 2006, at 0:16:36
In reply to Whoa -- where did that come from? (Part 1 - long), posted by Racer on August 31, 2006, at 14:10:34
Hi Racer,
As you know I hate being touched, the joke in there is that I am married to a massage therapist. I know that he has clients who would not see another massage therapist if he was unavailable. There is a comfort level that cannot be temporarily transfered to someone else. I fully understand why you don't want to see another PT when your regular one is not available. Your PT should understand it, also, as should the staff at the clinic you go to. Yes, physical therapy helps you, but not when being unable to work with your regular PT causes you anxiety.
I give you major credit for doing physical therapy when it triggers anxiety. I give you further credit for going to marriage counseling. I don't grade on a sliding scale, an A is a solid A and you've got one from me.
Poet
Posted by llrrrpp on September 2, 2006, at 12:45:00
In reply to Re: Whoa -- where did that come from? (Part 1 - l » Racer, posted by Jost on September 1, 2006, at 22:01:59
Hey Jost-
I've got some of these issues. I tried really hard to wrap my head around what you were saying, but if I messed up, mea culpa.One of the things *I* do, having been raised in a family where there were simultaneously no rules, yet lots of silently shifting expectations and manipulations is I *impose* a set of rules. And I'm overly rigid. If someone doesn't behave "correctly" according to llrrrpp, then they are not to be trusted, not to be respected, to be feared and avoided. It leads to a very adolescent way of thinking about social situations (who's on what team? who's in the good crowd, and who's on my bad side?).
It gets very bewildering, very quickly. Add to the mix that we want to be accepted, loved and respected. Well, now we have to figure out what everyone else's "rules" are, since we believe that therein lies the key to social success and grace.
Of course, there are no "rules"!! It's all just a giant illusion. Society is so complex that for any situation, different modes of behavior are expected, accepted, etc. At a bar, lots of things are acceptable, at a funeral, only a few things are acceptable. Even the most basic moral, such as "do not take another person's life", is flexible according to context (war, self-defense...)
So. how to strike the balance between getting YOUR needs met, and making others satisfied. This is a delicate balance. I'm glad Racer is working on this in MC, because certain relationships have to be very well-balanced to be satisfactory.
I find that helping people out on p-babble has improved my interactions IRL. When a friend confides in me, do I immediately react with something that betrays my own needs? No, I've realized that it's possible for me to support others and not sacrifice my own needs. Giving support, and asking for it. Very tough.
still very much a work in progress. especially the "asking for support" part.
-ll
Posted by Racer on September 2, 2006, at 20:48:34
In reply to Re: Whoa -- where did that come from? (Part 1 - l » Racer, posted by Jost on September 1, 2006, at 22:01:59
I just posted this over on Self Esteem, too, or something near enough.
Yeah -- approval or disapproval were things I couldn't influence. Some days, 100% wouldn't have been good enough. I'd have heard that I needed to be in a tougher school, then I'd see that I wasn't good enough. Other days, I could have gotten all the approval I needed for having a passing grade. it was entirely dependent on my mother at that moment.
And other family members have me painted into My Role as the Designated Screw Up Loser. Doesn't matter what I do, I'm still The Loser -- lazy, crazy, hopeless. Having a perfect GPA only gives them the fuel for sighing and saying, "poor thing, she coulda been a contender..." It makes no difference what I actually do -- it'll never be Good Enough, because then I wouldn't fit my role anymore.
Ugh.
Crying again. Time to log off... But I wanted to tell the two who triggered this, and that I'm going to write an email to my T, too, about this...
So, I'm reaching out, which is scary...
Posted by llrrrpp on September 2, 2006, at 21:20:53
In reply to Feeling sick now -- Jost and llrrrpp hit something, posted by Racer on September 2, 2006, at 20:48:34
Racer- I'd have a million hugs for you, but I remember that's not your style? how about my great-grandmother's quilt to wrap you in? It's hand pieced from depression era cotton. white ground, with red 9 patches. very soft, because it's kept so many people comforted. You know the quilts where the fabric kind of puckers up around the quilting and it looks like a little cloud went walking? And the red fabric must have been saved for a long time, because it's all slightly different. My grandma redid the binding about 15 years ago. Now that's nice and soft too. It's a strong quilt racer. Bold, bright, but comforting.
I'm so sorry you're hurting. I didn't mean to trigger you. You're a very special Babbler to me.
I know you've had a really tough week. Take some time to take care of you, Racer.
xoxo,
-ll
Posted by Jost on September 2, 2006, at 22:16:07
In reply to I'm so sorry Racer- » Racer, posted by llrrrpp on September 2, 2006, at 21:20:53
I'm sorry it feels so bad, Racer.
It's very hard to be the one who needs to get fixed, so she can be "enough" for people for whom no one, and nothing, ever will be.
But you already are enough-- yourself--even if you can't feel it, and recognize it as the central you, rather than the you that you're living without really quite being aware of it.
Even if you can't yet take full possession of it.
I wish you could. I believe you will, in time.
Today, or this week, or this month may not be the time, but I (and I'm sure Lurspie also) and so many other people, here and in your RL--know how special you are-- -- which shines through.
Be sad, or even despairing, if you feel those feelings, but know that even those feelings are okay, are part of you, too--but never all or most of you. You really are okay, whether you feel okay, or awful; whether you've gotten 100% on a test, or have gone to a PT appointment (or cancelled it)- it matters tremendously in one sense, and none of it is who you are, which transcends all of that, in another--
Who you are may seem unstable and faltering, but it isn't. It's resilient, and at the core, you'll find yourself. We have to have faith for one another sometimes and I --and more importantly, I'm sure, many others-- have that, for you.
Jost
Posted by llrrrpp on September 2, 2006, at 22:38:47
In reply to Re: I'm so sorry Racer- Racer, posted by Jost on September 2, 2006, at 22:16:07
Yes Jost, lurpsie agrees 117% to what you just wrote. I thought you weren't having a good thinking day-- Where did THAT come from? It must have come from your heart
This is the end of the thread.
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