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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tamar on June 13, 2006, at 17:06:23
First my therapist forgot the really important stuff we were supposed to be talking about.
Then he forgot to come to my appointment.
I’m supposed to see him tomorrow morning. Anyone care to guess wildly whether he’ll be there? Or any suggestions for what I should say to him if he does forget?
It’s only fair to mention: last week he had his dairy with him but he didn’t have a pen. So we agreed the next appointment time, but he wasn’t able to write it in his diary then and there.
Oh and... I’ve decided he needs an alias. I vaguely remember from previous threads (back when Karen Kay was here) that therapists must have names beginning with B. So I’ve chosen… Bert. The more I think about it, the more he reminds me of Bert.
Love,
Ernie
Posted by Annierose on June 13, 2006, at 17:18:53
In reply to Will he be there?, posted by Tamar on June 13, 2006, at 17:06:23
Yes, I think Bert will be there. He cannot forget 2 appointments in a row. It's a therapist law.
I hope it goes okay
Posted by Poet on June 13, 2006, at 18:03:59
In reply to Will he be there?, posted by Tamar on June 13, 2006, at 17:06:23
Hi Ernie,
Bert better remember this appointment or you should turn into Oscar the Grouch and let him have it.
He forgot his pen last week? I suppose his wife or mother chases after his car everyday waiving his lunch bag or he'd forget that, too.
My T has a rule that if she forgets an appointment or double books,I get a free session. Tell yours about this policy and see how pale he gets. Let, see he owes you...
Good luck tomorrow. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
Poet
Posted by wishingstar on June 13, 2006, at 18:39:10
In reply to Re: Will he be there? » Tamar, posted by Poet on June 13, 2006, at 18:03:59
I bet he's being real caseful now not to forget anything major with you since he just did it, twice in a row. I bet he'll be there. But if he isnt, he deserves a really hard kick in the shins. Joking aside though, I know how scary it is to not be sure if you can depend on your T. I'm sorry you're going through that.
Uh oh. my T doesnt have a name beginning with B either.. it starts with A. Is that close enough? Otherwise, I'm thinking I'll go with..... hm.. Berta. Only because it makes me laugh because she is so completely NOT a Bertha. :)
Posted by Dinah on June 13, 2006, at 19:13:51
In reply to Will he be there?, posted by Tamar on June 13, 2006, at 17:06:23
Otherwise this will be his third strike. :( He can't be that foolish.
I understand the worry though. I've been known to call to "confirm" when I suspect my therapist will forget.
And when he forgets to call me when he's supposed to I call and say "Dinah. Reminder. Call." It seems to be effective, if not dreadfully polite.
Posted by antigua on June 13, 2006, at 19:24:57
In reply to He'd better be there. » Tamar, posted by Dinah on June 13, 2006, at 19:13:51
I'm with Dinah; I'd be tempted to call to confirm for my own sake.
antigua
Posted by muffled on June 13, 2006, at 22:20:58
In reply to Re: He'd better be there., posted by antigua on June 13, 2006, at 19:24:57
Butthead.
But yeah, mebbe you should call and remind him.
He may just be forgetful.
Maybe he's on meds that make him forgetful.
Tamar, your special.
Remember that.
Muffly
Posted by Daisym on June 14, 2006, at 0:33:30
In reply to Will he be there?, posted by Tamar on June 13, 2006, at 17:06:23
He must be there. How could he not be? I agree with Dinah, this would be strike three. Message received. It is hard enough for me to sit in the waiting room without that added concern, I can't imagine.
I'd call to confirm too. I hope it went OK.
Daisy
Posted by frida on June 14, 2006, at 9:51:01
In reply to Or you could call him..., posted by muffled on June 13, 2006, at 22:20:58
i hope it went well. i'd call him to confirm. i've done that with my t and she never forgot, but just to be reassured.
i hope your t proves to be worth of your trust again..it's very painful to have the safety and trust shaken like that..love and support,
frida
Posted by Tamar on June 14, 2006, at 17:14:57
In reply to Will he be there?, posted by Tamar on June 13, 2006, at 17:06:23
In fact, he was early. He was there before me.
I told him I'd been afraid he wouldn't be there and he said, "It's that basic, is it?" Uh, yeah. Because he wasn't there the previous week. I said I'd be content if I could leave the session feeling sure he'd be at the next one. And I think we managed that.
But I still feel pretty crap. I told him I wanted comfort and he didn't respond.
I feel so far away from him. I really really want to feel connected but everything I say seems to push his boundary buttons. I have told him in the past that I want to feel emotionally close to him; he didn't say anything in response to that either. And I also told him once that sometimes I feel like I'm falling and I want to reach out to him to ask him to help steady me (metaphorically). And he didn't say anything in response to that.
What am I doing wrong? Why won't he answer me? I know, I know. I have to ask *him* that. But I don't know if he'll answer that either...
Sigh.
It feels so difficult right now.
Posted by Poet on June 14, 2006, at 19:27:12
In reply to Bert was there., posted by Tamar on June 14, 2006, at 17:14:57
Hi Tamar,
Burt sounds like he wasn't completely there. Darn him. He's frustrating you. I'm afraid that even if you did ask him, he wouldn't give you a straight answer. *It's that basic, is it?* *Yes, Bert, Poet thinks it's so basic that you should understand it without Tamar having to draw you a picture.*
I really feel for you Tamar. I'm sending Bert a cyber slap on the head for today's session.
Poet
Posted by annierose on June 14, 2006, at 19:51:56
In reply to Bert was there., posted by Tamar on June 14, 2006, at 17:14:57
I'm glad Bert came to work today. I think he very much wants to help you, he just isn't comfortable with working through these transference issues, as that isn't his theoretical orientation.
Since I've had similar conversations with my T and she is pychodynamic, here is what I imagine she would say, "I know you need to know that I care, and I do care. But that hurt comes from a very long time ago. It's from a young Annie that never knew if her mom or dad were listening to her, or that she even mattered. It's as if that age state became frozen. And now with me you are slowly expressing those feelings that you couldn't with you mom, because a little girl doesn't understand why her family doesn't notice her, so she blames herself. Those feelings come from a very young girl, and for you, that's uncomfortable. I am honored that you could share that with me."
That's what my T says to me, although not in one chunk, spread out over the session, unfolding itself slowly.
Does it resonate with you at all?
Posted by orchid on June 14, 2006, at 20:02:41
In reply to Bert was there., posted by Tamar on June 14, 2006, at 17:14:57
> In fact, he was early. He was there before me.
>
> I told him I'd been afraid he wouldn't be there and he said, "It's that basic, is it?" Uh, yeah. Because he wasn't there the previous week. I said I'd be content if I could leave the session feeling sure he'd be at the next one. And I think we managed that.
>
> But I still feel pretty crap. I told him I wanted comfort and he didn't respond.
>
> I feel so far away from him. I really really want to feel connected but everything I say seems to push his boundary buttons. I have told him in the past that I want to feel emotionally close to him; he didn't say anything in response to that either. And I also told him once that sometimes I feel like I'm falling and I want to reach out to him to ask him to help steady me (metaphorically). And he didn't say anything in response to that.
>
> What am I doing wrong? Why won't he answer me? I know, I know. I have to ask *him* that. But I don't know if he'll answer that either...
>
> Sigh.
>
> It feels so difficult right now.LOL I won't say it again. But you are making me say it. You should find a better T. IT will solve all the problems. He is probably good, but not good for you.
Posted by Tamar on June 15, 2006, at 4:43:17
In reply to Re: Bert was there. » Tamar, posted by Poet on June 14, 2006, at 19:27:12
> Burt sounds like he wasn't completely there. Darn him. He's frustrating you. I'm afraid that even if you did ask him, he wouldn't give you a straight answer. *It's that basic, is it?* *Yes, Bert, Poet thinks it's so basic that you should understand it without Tamar having to draw you a picture.*
Thanks for that, Poet. Sometimes I think I’m just crazy or imagining it. Maybe I *should* draw him a picture! I think it will be a picture of Bert and Ernie…
> I really feel for you Tamar. I'm sending Bert a cyber slap on the head for today's session.
Thanks. I hope it wakes him up!
Posted by Tamar on June 15, 2006, at 4:47:13
In reply to Re: Bert was there. » Tamar, posted by annierose on June 14, 2006, at 19:51:56
> I'm glad Bert came to work today. I think he very much wants to help you, he just isn't comfortable with working through these transference issues, as that isn't his theoretical orientation.
It looks that way, doesn’t it?
> Since I've had similar conversations with my T and she is pychodynamic, here is what I imagine she would say, "I know you need to know that I care, and I do care. But that hurt comes from a very long time ago. It's from a young Annie that never knew if her mom or dad were listening to her, or that she even mattered. It's as if that age state became frozen. And now with me you are slowly expressing those feelings that you couldn't with you mom, because a little girl doesn't understand why her family doesn't notice her, so she blames herself. Those feelings come from a very young girl, and for you, that's uncomfortable. I am honored that you could share that with me."
I cried when I read that. And if Bert ever showed he understood so much about me I would cry in session (which I never do). Wow. It must be incredible to hear it so directly like that.
> That's what my T says to me, although not in one chunk, spread out over the session, unfolding itself slowly.
>
> Does it resonate with you at all?Oh yes. Thanks Annierose. Maybe as well as drawing him a picture I will take him a script and ask him if he can say something very like what you wrote above.
Posted by Tamar on June 15, 2006, at 5:31:18
In reply to You know what I think :-) » Tamar, posted by orchid on June 14, 2006, at 20:02:41
> LOL I won't say it again. But you are making me say it. You should find a better T. IT will solve all the problems. He is probably good, but not good for you.
Ha ha! Yeah, I know. You are probably right.
I was thinking about what you said, because I really do think it’s too hard at the moment, and I was wondering whether working with a different therapist might be the best answer.
But I’ve just realised that it’s sort of like trying to think about getting a new mother or father. My parents have made a lot of mistakes with me, but they’re the people I have a family relationship with. I can look for other father figures, but no one else can be my own father. And I still want to have a relationship with him. And I think it’s similar with my therapist. Even though he’s not perfect, he’s *my* therapist. He’s the one I have the transference with. He’s the one who helped me when things were very bad before.
I just can’t imagine giving up the relationship. If he ever did anything that really damaged me I’d walk away. But I love him and I can’t imagine giving up my relationship with him.
I guess I have to keep trying.
Posted by Dinah on June 15, 2006, at 9:35:11
In reply to Re: You know what I think :-) » orchid, posted by Tamar on June 15, 2006, at 5:31:18
I *so* understand because I feel the same way.
But to protect myself I had to learn what my therapist can and can't do. He's great at some things, not great at others. So now when he tells me at the end of a session that he's leaving for a week the next day. Oops. Sorry he didn't tell me till the very last minute, I just smile wryly.
And when he tells me that he isn't going to push me, because he's not that kind of therapist, and if I want that kind of therapist I'll have to find another one, I accept that he really *isn't* that kind of therapist, for a lot of the same reasons I adore him.
Your therapist has been trained in a part of the world that is sort of rigid about using the "proven" techniques, even though they've also been proven to have limits to their helpfulness with subpopulations. It sounds as if he's *trying* to stretch his theoretical technique to work with you, and that's in his favor. But he's not trained in it, he's not comfortable with it, and it likely does make him a bit uncomfortable. Not anything to do with you and your worthiness or likeability. But most people do feel uncomfortable when they operate outside their comfort zone, especially if they've been trained a bit rigidly.
So I reserve my slap for the system, which lets down so many people in the name of serving the greatest number. Because while Mr. Spock is often right, so is Captain Kirk. Especially since the needs of the few don't have to conflict with the needs of the many. They just have to be acknowledged and accounted for.
Posted by orchid on June 15, 2006, at 12:42:00
In reply to Re: You know what I think :-) » orchid, posted by Tamar on June 15, 2006, at 5:31:18
Tamar,
I can very well understand how you feel about giving up this T and searching someone who is better able to help you.I was in the same situation with my first T. I had huge transference towards him, but I also knew long back (much longer even before it came to termination), that it was not working out well. I kept trying to get some understanding and words out from his mouth. But it never happened. Maybe there were other factors like emails and distance etc etc in my therapy and he was also very inexperienced, but nevertheless, I kept sticking on to the relationship beyond the point where I knew it wasn't working out at all. And he did suggest many times that I should see someone else here, but somehow that didn't materialise.
You know very well what happened at the end. We both stretched it beyond the point of wearing it out, and then it ended pretty badly. And it hurt me quite so much.
Retrospectively, I think, if I had picked up the courage to leave him long before, and found someone else here with who I could have worked it out better, then maybe I could have even continued sort of once in a while email contact with him, and it wouldn't have ended so badly. I mean, it doesn't have to be all or nothing. You are not choosing a different father, but you are seeking out someone who can serve as a role model and perhaps like a teacher. Your real father can be your T (and from my experience, it will always be that way), but that doesn't have to prevent you from associating with other people and learning from them what will serve only to your betterment.
And really, I think if you continue with your T knowing full well he is not helping you as much as he should, it will end up frustrating you and you will end up feeling bitter and angry towards him. And it doesn't serve your Ts interests well too - he will realize he is not able to help you, and that will make him bitter too. It is much better to get out when it is in a decent shape, and reserving the possibility to see him at a later point.
Just my 2 cents.
Posted by happyflower on June 15, 2006, at 15:20:35
In reply to I can perfectly understand the feeling, but yet... » Tamar, posted by orchid on June 15, 2006, at 12:42:00
I think working on the therapy relationship IS therapy. No therapist is going to be perfect, just like there is no perfect mate either. But working through those differences helps us in real life, because nobody is perfect. I think you have formed a bond, keep working at it , and I think everything will be okay.
Posted by orchid on June 15, 2006, at 15:29:40
In reply to Re: I can perfectly understand the feeling, but yet..., posted by happyflower on June 15, 2006, at 15:20:35
Just trying to do all the work by ourselves doesn't work either. T has to be willing and supportive and guiding us through the relationship. Otherwise, it fails miserably.
Posted by sleepygirl on June 15, 2006, at 20:22:25
In reply to Re: You know what I think :-) » Tamar, posted by Dinah on June 15, 2006, at 9:35:11
well said :-)
This is the end of the thread.
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