![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 16 to 40 of 52. Go back in thread:
Posted by Susan47 on October 24, 2005, at 20:10:52
In reply to Re:To Susan unrequited/sort of) Ally is right!! :), posted by allisonross on October 24, 2005, at 13:46:47
Hi Ally,
You said "also......told him that if he had been my auto mechanic, and I had gotten to know him, I would have been attracted to, AND fallen in love with him..."
and I just had to pick that out, because I've never known any auto mechanic, and this is not a slur of any sort on any social/economic/cultural/work group .. but honestly I haven't known very many deeply philosophizing/thinking well-balanced and incredibly self-confident and intelligent auto mechanics, salesmen, lawyers, doctors, policemen (++++ on that one) ... there's something about this particular man which is deeply interesting.
And I wonder,
Is it because he's interested in ME?
Is that what truly makes him interesting?
Or is he as lovely, softly kind, intelligent, emotional (YES!) and vulnerable (Double YES! ... my shopping list, my emotional man shopping list, is coming to the fore.
Do you know I had over 80 qualities I was looking for in a man?
And do you know I based every one of those positive qualities on the one man my imagination created, developed, from my ex-T?
Sick .. or smart?
One may never know.
Posted by Susan47 on October 24, 2005, at 20:15:19
In reply to Re:To Susan unrequited/sort of) Ally is right!! :), posted by allisonross on October 24, 2005, at 13:46:47
You said this: "He doesn't remind me of anyone I have ever known, and all that other stuff about the Freudian transference, etc.......I think it is sad that we have to use special names for simple things, such as LOVE...of course there are all of the Freudian things that can happen; I've read reams of material, none of it fits my situation."
..and I'm thinking you're so deeply in transference you're denying what's really happening, but that's okay because you need to deny that right now, in fact, reading this might be (1) making you laugh, still thinking your case is different, and I just don't understand, or (2) maybe making you a bit peed off. Triggered. Triggered? Hmh. Anyway, I used to think the exact same thing, but I was smart enough to know that must be part of the process, I was purposefully delusional.
Ach.
Posted by Susan47 on October 24, 2005, at 20:16:57
In reply to Re:To Susan unrequited/sort of) Ally is right!! :), posted by allisonross on October 24, 2005, at 13:46:47
And I realize a while ago that all sorts of classically Freudian concepts were at work in my relationship with this T. It was hilarious, when I realized some things. Y'know, EMDR is fabulous.
Posted by allisonross on October 25, 2005, at 9:01:47
In reply to And PS » allisonross, posted by Susan47 on October 24, 2005, at 20:16:57
> And I realize a while ago that all sorts of classically Freudian concepts were at work in my relationship with this T. It was hilarious, when I realized some things. Y'know, EMDR is fabulous.
Hmmm. what is EMDR? While I am sure there is transference stuff going on (that is a natural thing, I understand); love....is love...we are alike in 28 different ways (don't ask me how I know, LOL).....As I said (I think), if I had met him at work or he was my tv repairman, I would have loved him......yes, we all are in denial; people "do what they need to, to stay out of pain" We all construct our own versions of reality.....but I believe I can look at the reality (it IS...painful)...and sometimes it takes my breath away, and we have such an authentic, fabulous relationship and do good work together, even though....there is that elephant in the living room! he said: "As long as we talk about it, it isn't dangerous" Smiles, Alice (what was your experience? I'd love it hear about it......
Posted by allisonross on October 25, 2005, at 9:14:42
In reply to A bit at a time, posted by Susan47 on October 24, 2005, at 20:10:52
> Hi, Susan: Hi Ally,
> You said "also......told him that if he had been my auto mechanic, and I had gotten to know him, I would have been attracted to, AND fallen in love with him..."
> and I just had to pick that out, because I've never known any auto mechanic, and this is not a slur of any sort on any social/economic/cultural/work group .Oh, I wouldn't have thought that.... but honestly I haven't known very many deeply philosophizing/thinking well-balanced and incredibly self-confident and intelligent auto mechanics, salesmen, lawyers, doctors, policemen (++++ on that one) ..Yes, you are right, I should have qualified that more! My thought was that I didn't fall in love with him simply because he was a therapist/kind , loving, intelligent, non-judgemental, etc., etc., etc....... there's something about this particular man which is deeply interesting.
> And I wonder,
> Is it because he's interested in ME?
> Is that what truly makes him interesting?
> Or is he as lovely, softly kind, intelligent, emotional (YES!) and vulnerable (Double YES! ... my shopping list, my emotional man shopping list, is coming to the fore.
> Do you know I had over 80 qualities I was looking for in a man? WOW!!! My shopping list....I realized a few years ago....that I am TOAST if a man is intellectual.....first and foremost, that is what attracts me, and I met a man (not the t) who was the vice-provost (high level position) at the University where I worked; I was TOAST, i was in love with him (I know he had feelings for me, etc., but was (ick) married! And HE, like the t had integrity......basically I have ONLY known 2 men who are EXACTLY what I want. My shopping list? 1. Intellectual (turn me on like crazy,) 2. sensitive 3. loves to dance (that's who I am, an dancer--singer, writer, etc...dancing is my first love; born that way) 4. sense of humor 5, empathic....there are other things, but those are the basics!
> And do you know I based every one of those positive qualities on the one man my imagination created, developed, from my ex-T?
> Sick .. or smart? Why would it be sick? However you based those qualities, those are YOUR qualities, or the qualities you need, and they make you who you are and what you want and need.
> One may never know.
Hugs, Ally
>
>
Posted by allisonross on October 25, 2005, at 13:57:04
In reply to Re: Hi, A Bit at a time now, posted by Susan47 on October 21, 2005, at 20:26:36
>Hi, Susan, sweetie: I totally relate-- I started to flip flop between loving, feeling foolish, feeling rejected, feeling desperate, and hating me then him, then loving him, then hating him. It was horrible. It was sick. I said so, I remember telling his answering machine.
> And I don't know what he thought. I know I felt crazy. C-r-a-z-y. I have ALWAYS been crazy (LOL), so i didn't have far to go! The reason I started to hate him (recently, after being with him for 3 years), is that he is (hate to say it, but I can see reality, even tho people call me a "fairy-child"----I can see both sides....he is doing what is called "sexual exploitation"---we both flirt and tease outrageously (I am allowed to do that, cause I am the client), and as he says, he knows he is supposed to keep the boundaries. he gets to "play" (no kissing or sex or anything like that, but not that I am not wanting that, even tho I know about the ramifications) with me, and then (makes me furious) gets to go home to his wife he is "Deeply in love with"--His words.......when i told him (last year) I thought he had feelings for me also........I notice, he DIDN'T answer my question. I believe (not because I need/want to) that he DOES love me, because of all of the things he has said (not the silly teasy things)> Allison, please do not let this happen to you, no matter what, don't start to feel crazy like I did. I am afraid it already has; I have managed to not be all over him like a cheap suit (LOL) for a whole freaking 3 years for crying out loud. I think it is so ironic. I (underline the word, I) am the client, and I maintain the boundaries; HE is the t, and crosses them. What is wrong with this picture!? He and I have done some fantastic work (I went to him cause my church voted me out of a 31-year membership because i got a divorce); so am alone now for the 1st time in 31 years (the only fear I ever really had...was that of being alone/abandoned, and here......it is!! I am doing (amazingly!) well, but going home allone, after t has teased me nearly to death (emotionally, sexually...double entendres, etc) is very painful, not to mention FRUSTRATION!! We had a long conversation about stuff (not the stuff he is doing; not ready to go there yet), and he said "I don't want to hurt you." I sat on the floor (instead of the couch one night), only a few days after the divorce, he got up without a word, and sat next to me (not touching), but of course I told him later, that I just wanted to lean against me and have him hold me...a normal feeling; given that I love him.... I think that is one of the most empathic, beautiful things he ever did..anyway i could go on forever what has gone between us, but will stop here. I can e-mail you privately (not sure I would post some of the stuff; don't feel comfortable doing that as yet)
> So having said that, have fun hile you can. :)...Thanks, sweetie; I am having fun, but at the sme time, a LOT of pain...unrequited love...always is...I just have to live with it, until I get the strength or courage t leave (don't see it happening anytime soon)....Hugs, Ally (wacalice@aol.com)
Posted by Susan47 on October 25, 2005, at 19:58:56
In reply to Re: To Susan/And PS, posted by allisonross on October 25, 2005, at 9:01:47
Good question, Ally, and I don't know the answer. Because to claim that I know anything about that relationship would be laying ownership to full knowledge. I only have my own reality. That would be perhaps less than half the truth, if I'm as delusional as I suspect. :] (Which is a sorrowful grin, BTW)
Posted by Susan47 on October 25, 2005, at 20:11:38
In reply to Re:Susan/automechanic/ A bit at a time, posted by allisonross on October 25, 2005, at 9:14:42
No, it isn't smart to ascribe those qualities, all the wonderful things I am myself and am also looking for in someone else ... it isn't smart to put them all on one person, and an attractive sexual male, at that. Because the fact is I played these sick little mind games, for example, your last line on the post says this:
"Hugs, Ally"
And I would pretend that you were my ex-T, who was really an ex when I first came online to Babble he'd already terminated me ... I believe .. if I remember correctly, but my memory's hash, in reality, in any case. The thing is I would pretend that "Ally" was really "C" in disguise .. I was really very sick. So the fantasies I used to feed my need for a soulmate .. well, they were based solely on wishful thinking.
Which is child's play, in reality .. it's for children. I needed to be stuck in him loving me, I needed his love.
Which is wrong, because I'm the opposite sex and I was immensely attracted to him as a private person, like, someone I genuinely liked. WHich felt wrong, because of course he was in a professional role and I wasn't. If he came and saw me at my place of work, he'd be the client, not I.
Oh, what a lovely feeling that would be ;) Can you imagine being seen as this vulnerable little bit of nothing but gross pain and suffering and acting-out for years, by this T .. and suddenly he has to see me in My Environment, and he can see I'm much more than he ever saw before.
In any case, it's a sick fancy which can never come to fruition. Anything like that is child's little head games, very foolish and too, too vulnerable.
I hated myself. I still do, for my weakness.
Posted by Susan47 on October 25, 2005, at 20:35:24
In reply to It's Sick » allisonross, posted by Susan47 on October 25, 2005, at 20:11:38
You know, I can't honestly think of any other relationship in our lives, other than the familial one, that has such a taboo against love, only this one has a taboo against physical love, which in some cases, means emotional love as well. So it's even MORE of a taboo than oh why oh WHY can I not think of the term for familial sex?? I only worked with it for so many years, I know, I KNOW THE TERM. TOPH HELP ME OUT HERE. You-all know what I mean, right? So if you like a little danger and you had this experience with your sibling at a really vulnerable stage of development, of course this relationship with the T especially if he reminds you of your brother anyway ... of course the love/sex taboo part of it is going to be very loaded.. well it's a theory, anyway. I just made it up. ;) But maybe, I don't know, maybe I'm not so off base. I mean, Know Thyself, it's an edict, isn't it? From the Bible as well as philosophy. There's a reason for that, right? I mean, if you couldn't do it, you wouldn't be asked to try...
Posted by allisonross on October 26, 2005, at 7:58:48
In reply to It's Sick » allisonross, posted by Susan47 on October 25, 2005, at 20:11:38
> Dear Susan: No, it isn't smart to ascribe those qualities, all the wonderful things I am myself and am also looking for in someone else ... it isn't smart to put them all on one person, and an attractive sexual male, at that. Because the fact is I played these sick little mind games, for example, your last line on the post says this: But if you saw those qualities in him, what is wrong with that?
> "Hugs, Ally"
> And I would pretend that you were my ex-T, who was really an ex when I first came online to Babble he'd already terminated me ... I believe .. if I remember correctly, but my memory's hash, in reality, in any case. The thing is I would pretend that "Ally" was really "C" in disguise .. I was really very sick. So the fantasies I used to feed my need for a soulmate .. well, they were based solely on wishful thinking.
> Which is child's play, in reality .. it's for children. I needed to be stuck in him loving me, I needed his love.
> Which is wrong, because I'm the opposite sex and I was immensely attracted to him as a private person, like, someone I genuinely liked. WHich felt wrong, because of course he was in a professional role and I wasn't. If he came and saw me at my place of work, he'd be the client, not I.
> Oh, what a lovely feeling that would be ;) Can you imagine being seen as this vulnerable little bit of nothing but gross pain and suffering and acting-out for years, by this T .. and suddenly he has to see me in My Environment, and he can see I'm much more than he ever saw before.
> In any case, it's a sick fancy which can never come to fruition. Anything like that is child's little head games, very foolish and too, too vulnerable.
> I hated myself. I still do, for my weakness.
It is not wrong to feel what you feel (feelings are facts); they just....are.......we can choose what to do with them; that much is in our control. Smiles, Alice
Posted by Susan47 on October 26, 2005, at 19:34:31
In reply to Re: Susan:It's Sick, posted by allisonross on October 26, 2005, at 7:58:48
I'm sorry, this gets kind of lengthy.
What you said Ally, that's weird, the realization I have right now that I'm beginning to understand the concept that feelings can be true, genuine, real and laced with impurities. My feelings don't have to be perfect or perfectly clear, to be taken seriously and to be appreciated and taken generously.
.........(rave) ... God, Nigel Kennedy playing the Four Seasons has some incredibly dark, slow moments of agony ...
sorry, I think maybe it's going into fall here. I need to learn this piece intimately. It's one of my favourites. Also Handel's Water Music is divine, but I can't seem to locate a copy and I'm missing it so much. Harnoncourt, what's Harnoncourt? Because I love that too....(end)
You've said it twice now, that I can remember, and maybe you have something. Maybe it doesn't have to be smart or right to be true. Maybe I was really loving this man so much, and wanting him to be my physical and emotional partner, and maybe I was quite ugly and gross to him, immature, loud, whatever.. bad breath .. I mean, who knows, right? You never know what someone else is thinking.. but I suspect if they're good people, a good person knows when to cut his or her thoughts off. I like that I'm getting to be a better and better person :) .. in that regard ... I just took a big sigh. I mean, why does life have to be so much hard work? Or it's a bag of suffering for so many many, most of the planet in fact, you have to be a mindless thing to be not working at something in your life, not suffering somehow, physically mentally or emotionally ...
time to see my new therapist for emdr.
I'm nervous and I don't like being nervous, and scared, and I'm depressed feeling I waver back and forth, you know, up and down, I never feel really complete unless I'm stoned.
I hate myself.
Posted by allisonross on October 27, 2005, at 7:41:52
In reply to I'm sorry this is becoming more » allisonross, posted by Susan47 on October 26, 2005, at 19:34:31
> I'm sorry, this gets kind of lengthy.
That's okay.
> What you said Ally, that's weird, the realization I have right now that I'm beginning to understand the concept that feelings can be true, genuine, real and laced with impurities.
Feelings ARE true; they are NOT right or wrong; they just ARE (You cannot choose your feelings; only how you behave because of them)
My feelings don't have to be perfect or perfectly clear, to be taken seriously and to be appreciated and taken generously.
That is correct!
> .........(rave) ... God, Nigel Kennedy playing the Four Seasons has some incredibly dark, slow moments of agony ...
> sorry, I think maybe it's going into fall here. I need to learn this piece intimately. It's one of my favourites. Also Handel's Water Music is divine, but I can't seem to locate a copy and I'm missing it so much. Harnoncourt, what's Harnoncourt? Because I love that too....(end)I love music, too. i couldn't live without it (born dancer), I sing and have a poetry website; written my memoir: Ghost Child to Triumph. Secret Garden has exquisite music, as well as Tim Janis
> You've said it twice now, that I can remember, and maybe you have something. Maybe it doesn't have to be smart or right to be true. Maybe I was really loving this man so much, and wanting him to be my physical and emotional partner, and maybe I was quite ugly and gross to him, immature, loud, whatever.. bad breath .. I mean, who knows, right? You never know what someone else is thinking.. but I suspect if they're good people, a good person knows when to cut his or her thoughts off. I like that I'm getting to be a better and better person :)
I see a wonderful person.
.. in that regard ... I just took a big sigh. I mean, why does life have to be so much hard work?
I wish I knew.
Or it's a bag of suffering for so many many, most of the planet in fact, you have to be a mindless thing to be not working at something in your life, not suffering somehow, physically mentally or emotionally ...
yes, we have a planet of suffering people. Just think of what would happen if every one of us, helped just one person every day. How the world would change! Hw much suffering we would alleviate!
.> time to see my new therapist for emdr.
> I'm nervous and I don't like being nervous, and scared, and I'm depressed feeling I waver back and forth, you know, up and down, I never feel really complete unless I'm stoned.
> I hate myself.Oh, sweet Susan. I am so sad to hear you say that. Can you tell me why you feel like that? Love, Allison
Posted by Susan47 on October 27, 2005, at 19:38:37
In reply to Re: Susan:I'm sorry this is becoming more, posted by allisonross on October 27, 2005, at 7:41:52
Your true voice is coming out. Are you being a helper? Thanks, Ally, I like that about you and I like to think I can be that too, don['t you really love the idea that people're better because of knowing you? I love that feeling, it's more than an idea, and some days the idea is still overwhelming me because of its' new-ness. I've never felt this smart (that feels terrible to say that about myself.. it's very nervy)
I've never felt this beautiful (okay, maybe just appealing)
I've never felt this physically and mentally whole, yet totally, also, split apart. Because all these bits of me that are growing still have to come together, and see what other people see. What they see is lovely, I like it, and I move more and more towards it the more they see all the good things I wish to be ...
Ally, do you think I'm sick?
Posted by allisonross on October 28, 2005, at 7:22:11
In reply to Well, Listen to You » allisonross, posted by Susan47 on October 27, 2005, at 19:38:37
> Hi, Susan, Sweetie: Your true voice is coming out. Are you being a helper?
I've been counseling abused women for the past 10 years (no degree, just 31 years of abuse and extensive research).
Thanks, Ally, I like that about you
Thanks, sweetie!
and I like to think I can be that too,
of course you can, and that is what you are doing.
don['t you really love the idea that people're better because of knowing you?
Thankyou...that is a lovely thought. i realized that it would be horrific, if I didn't do something with the knowledge that I have.
I love that feeling, it's more than an idea, and some days the idea is still overwhelming me because of its' new-ness. I've never felt this smart (that feels terrible to say that about myself.. it's very nervy)
it isn't really nervy (LOL, ), it simply...IS the way you feel, and feelings...should always be honored. Honor yourself, honor all of your feelings. Accept that you are a unique, wonderful individual on the planet.
> I've never felt this beautiful (okay, maybe just appealing)
You are beautiful inside, and I will bet, on the inside, too! If you want to see what I look like; go to my website: www.churchabusepoetrytherapy.com (and go under "About Me"
> I've never felt this physically and mentally whole, yet totally, also, split apart. Because all these bits of me that are growing still have to come together, and see what other people see. What they see is lovely, I like it, and I move more and more towards it the more they see all the good things I wish to be ...
you are lovely
> Ally, do you think I'm sick?
No. I think you are a hurting person on the planet, wanting everything we all want. love, affirmation, attention, and someone to celebrate you! You should be celebrated, and you should celebrate yourself; do the things that make you happy.
Hugs and Love, Ally (that was my nickname in the army)
Posted by Susan47 on October 28, 2005, at 18:33:25
In reply to Re: Well, Listen to YouSusan, posted by allisonross on October 28, 2005, at 7:22:11
..that the army had such a beautiful person in it.
It almost gives one hope.. you know, hope that just because you carry a gun and are trained to kill, that doesn't necessarily mean you'd do it.
That's my secret wish all my life, you know.
To face a murderer, and stare him down with love,
change his murderous ones to gentle ones.What a strange, intense fantasy to have had all one's life. Don't you think that's strange, Ally?
Sheesh, I love your name. It's one of those roll-off-the-tongue numbers, like another name I know ... so beautiful, that name and that man.
I really am sick. I really am.
Posted by Susan47 on October 28, 2005, at 19:28:16
In reply to It's so Nice To Think » allisonross, posted by Susan47 on October 28, 2005, at 18:33:25
> To face a murderer, and stare him down with love,
> change his murderous ones to gentle ones.
>
Should read murderous ways
Murderous to gentle.
Posted by Susan47 on October 29, 2005, at 16:42:44
In reply to It's so Nice To Think » allisonross, posted by Susan47 on October 28, 2005, at 18:33:25
I have to because obviously it's true. All the facts just stare me in the face and won't let go.
My last therapist was using me to feed his ego. I look at the way he behaves when he's around women, and he does it constantly with them. I believe he probably is the same way with his male patients as well. I think he works mostly at getting that nice little warm feeling when he thinks he's been helpful. I think he ignores and gets angry and disappointed when he can't see the forest for the trees. I believe he's self-delusional. I believe he operates mostly out of his ego. I wish he were different.
But I don't think he is. And evidence ALL the evidence points to the fact that I'm right.
I probably wouldn't have liked him in person.
I probably would have thought him shallow and self-serving.
And protective of himself to the point of hurting others.
My blinders might finally be coming off.
I may finally be seeing things the way they really are.
So, congratulate me.
I'm a stronger person than I ever was, but I had to walk through hell to get here. And I mean, how stable am I really?
I don't know.
But I do know when someone is hurting me, and I hope I'm getting strong enough to learn that someone else's ugliness does not have to reflect upon me.
Posted by allisonross on October 30, 2005, at 10:27:27
In reply to I Can't Believe It, posted by Susan47 on October 29, 2005, at 16:42:44
> Dear Susan, sweetie: I believe "the unexamined life is not worth living," and believe I know myself as well as one can. One one hand, I have my fairy-child (that's the nickname some have given me, cause I like to live in the moment, am a free-spirit, etc. On the other hand, I am able to look at reality---even when it bites.
And...it BITES right now.
Have been in love with my therapist for 2 years, and what he has been doing is called "seductive behavior"...I have always loved it, but now I know it is not good for me, but am not ready to confront him.
I've confronted him on other issues (not afraid to speak my mind).
I have to because obviously it's true. All the facts just stare me in the face and won't let go.
Good for you!
> My last therapist was using me to feed his ego.
Yup, I get that.
I look at the way he behaves when he's around women, and he does it constantly with them.
I am curious, how is it that you see him around other women, when therapy is supposed to be private, etc.?
I believe he probably is the same way with his male patients as well. I think he works mostly at getting that nice little warm feeling when he thinks he's been helpful.
Yes, and then he can feel good about himself.
I think he ignores and gets angry and disappointed when he can't see the forest for the trees. I believe he's self-delusional.
I am sure you are right.
I believe he operates mostly out of his ego. I wish he were different.
I know. Isn't that a shame!
> But I don't think he is. And evidence ALL the evidence points to the fact that I'm right.
Always trust your "gut"
> I probably wouldn't have liked him in person.
> I probably would have thought him shallow and self-serving.
> And protective of himself to the point of hurting others.
> My blinders might finally be coming off.
> I may finally be seeing things the way they really are.Again, good for you!
> So, congratulate me.
Congratulations!!
> I'm a stronger person than I ever was, but I had to walk through hell to get here.
Sometimes the only way we get strong, is to experience the pain, walk through it, and realize what happened, see the reality, and only then can we heal.
And I mean, how stable am I really?
> I don't know.You sound very stable to me.
> But I do know when someone is hurting me, and I hope I'm getting strong enough to learn that someone else's ugliness does not have to reflect upon me.
No.....knowing the difference between their "stuff" and OURs is the key.
Congratulations, Congratulations, Congratulations!
This called, "self-actualization" and you are doing it!Hugs n Love, Ally
Posted by Susan47 on October 30, 2005, at 12:44:11
In reply to Re: I Can't Believe It » Susan47, posted by allisonross on October 30, 2005, at 10:27:27
How does your reality bite, right now?
> Have been in love with my therapist for 2 years, and what he has been doing is called "seductive behavior"...I have always loved it, but now I know it is not good for me, but am not ready to confront him.
>
> I've confronted him on other issues (not afraid to speak my mind).I wasn't either, to begin with. I told my T exactly but EXACTLY how he affected me, and his response was in looking concerned, a bit shaken actually, not wanting to have physical contact with me or even eye contact with me during and afterward, and when I insisted on a handshake, it was sweaty. I mean, mushy and damp. Which it never was before. And I knew right then it was a doomed relationship, because my confession came AFTER I caught him openly and lasciviously staring at my almost-non-existent, at that time, breasts. And well-encased, you know, I always kept them pretty much locked away. I mean, he had to have known my admission was coming, because he has to know he does this. This sort of behaviour isn't something new to someone his age, which I think was 56 or 7 at the time. I mean, Ally, come on, he's a bloody THERAPIST for Christ's sake. He wears no wedding ring. Although he claims to be in a working marriage, he referred to his Other frequently. To the point where it became a bit suspicious, you know, like holding the carrot out to the donkey. And like a big donkey, Ally, I FELL FOR IT!!!!
I HATED MYSELF FOR FALLING FOR HIS NASTY LITTLE BAG OF TRICKS, Ally.
ONLY HE WOULD DENY WHAT HE WAS UP TO.Because, to get onto one of your questions, Ally, I saw the two of them together in public, three times. And each and every time he was a bystander in the relationship. Two feet away minimum, from her, well either to the side or behind this woman, who resembles my mother for God's sake, except for her superior little Woman-Of-The-Manor (my *ss!) looks ... they are Not an Attractive Couple. They just don't seem really together, it's like one's the boss and the other's the helper, and you don't really know which is which, because looks can be deceiving, you know? And one time she was looking at a video in the library, I didn't even know they were there, I can never remember what this woman looks like, her features are "everywoman" to me, just nothing particular about her, you know? Nothing really stands out about her, or him either, for that fact. Except that I was tantalized by this man's f*cking behaviour when he was away from her. Ally, he was like a dog in heat in a skin that's too tight.
I feel terrible, and wonderful, having my eyes opened. Knowing how I was used and actually loving being used. And being hurt by it too. And his ignorance of his own behaviour is so funny, Ally. It's funny and I would split a gut laughing if I hadn't spent such a long time in the trap of his seduction.
He's a seducing T, Ally. It's true. I've heard him with his patients, and he's like that with couples and single women, but I don't know about single men. I think they make him buckle down a bit and stop acting.
I know and I knew he couldn't be trusted, but I wanted to be special, I didn't want to be like all the others. And the fact is maybe that I wasn't.
Maybe I rebelled.
Posted by Susan47 on October 30, 2005, at 13:03:05
In reply to Re: I Can't Believe It » Susan47, posted by allisonross on October 30, 2005, at 10:27:27
You remember me thinking he gets his good feelings from being helpful to others? Now I believe, and I could be wrong, anything is possible of course, but.. I believe he gets good feelings from sexualizing the relationship between himself and some of his patients.
Get this. I like to sit with my feet up, cross-legged, when I'm uncomfortable I make conscious efforts to relax, like stretch my arms up and back and breathe in allowing my rib cage to expand .. he used to stare and make notes of these behaviours, as though they meant something different. And he used to Pointedly Stare when I sat cross-legged, I remember one time in particular, straight and directly at my crotch. Probably wondering what it looks like under the fabric. Which is okay, if we were in a romantic relationship. Which of course I longed to be. But which we weren't.
Ally I feel sorry for him. :(
Posted by Susan47 on October 30, 2005, at 13:17:32
In reply to Re: I Can't Believe It » Susan47, posted by allisonross on October 30, 2005, at 10:27:27
I can't feel sorry for him, because if I saw him again I would just want to melt in his arms again, which his arms don't realy want me anyway, they have their effing pick of any innocent woman who walks in seeking his help. Ally what are they getting? What I got, or better? I remember once opening the door with him behind me, a young woman sitting on the couch waiting for him in the outer office (which is a grim little affair, I can tell you... no need to make any efforts when it's all laid at your feet, after all ... I don't know, I just don't know why I feel so cynical about him now, but you know it all fits so perfectly, and my dreams have been wavering between telling me this stuff and keeping it secret from me ...)
this woman looked at me at first surprised, she was Waiting for that door to Open, I can tell you that ... then she looked upset, like I might be a threat to her relationship with him, then she covered it up when he greeted her. I felt supremely sorry for her, and sorry for myself too. Because I knew what we were both going through, I knew he was no different with her than he was with me. There's no reason I would have been special. But being in therapy, we deny that, because we have such a huge need to be special, as we never were before to any man, and it's so easy to fall into his trap, which he keeps constantly baited, unable to stop himself, it could be subconscious, some of it at least. Ally I've seen this man in public by himself, and he has that assurance that only really attractive men have, he's able to make himself either disappear or be visually available.
He didn't get how important this relationship was, or something, he didn't get how dangerous it was to play with a mind as broken and hurt as mine.
Part of me hates him, part loves him still.
I'm in a trap partly of my own flawed design, he's closed his eyes and ears to any truth from me, and how many others has he hurt over the years, how many still to come?
Or has he stopped, has he a conscious or is he sociopath? It's so true that you just can't tell. You don't know. Maybe he isn't sick, maybe he has a conscience and he honestly didn't know what he was doing. Maybe eventually he brings people to good conclusions and I was the one exception in a career of successes.
Posted by Susan47 on October 30, 2005, at 14:13:47
In reply to Re: I Can't Believe It » Susan47, posted by allisonross on October 30, 2005, at 10:27:27
I just realized something, well I knew it for a long time but I'm putting it into words now, that I'll bet he triggers a lot of female patients into threatening suicide because they get so desperate for the attention he keeps flashing promises of.
So I'm wondering, who's sick, here? Him, or his "patients"? Maybe nobody, maybe it's all "transference", the big psychological term which has more than one meaning.. one of them is "excuse for inadequate behaviour from the professional side of a therapeutic alliance"
What an *sshole. I wish I could see him and tell him that. But it would never happen, he's not the type of person who responds well to criticism. I'm quite sure of that. He's very good at pointed self-delusion.
I wonder if he wears a wedding band, yet.
After so many years of marriage, he must have been married close to thirty years. How unprofessional.
I think I had a reason to fall off the sanity wagon. Maybe I should consider a support group. If it were important enough to me, I would. If I knew of enough women that this has happened to, I would do that. Perhaps even there would be a few therapists in town who would be wise and good and honest enough to support something like that. I doubt it, though. Most would, I suspect, sagely nod their heads and give some noncomittal remark which would be of no help whatsoever. Because quite frankly, I think I am talking here about a profession that has become completely paranoid and schizophrenic in its behaviour.
Maybe that should be a conference subect for the 2006 conference. Hah. Would it ever happen?
Posted by allisonross on October 31, 2005, at 13:03:25
In reply to I Can't Believe It, posted by Susan47 on October 29, 2005, at 16:42:44
>Hi, sweetie, Susan. I have to because obviously it's true. All the facts just stare me in the face and won't let go.
Feels ugly, doesn't it
> My last therapist was using me to feed his ego. I look at the way he behaves when he's around women, and he does it constantly with them. I believe he probably is the same way with his male patients as well. I think he works mostly at getting that nice little warm feeling when he thinks he's been helpful. I think he ignores and gets angry and disappointed when he can't see the forest for the trees. I believe he's self-delusional.
Go with your gut; it is usually right.
I believe he operates mostly out of his ego. I wish he were different.
> But I don't think he is. And evidence ALL the evidence points to the fact that I'm right.
> I probably wouldn't have liked him in person.
> I probably would have thought him shallow and self-serving.
> And protective of himself to the point of hurting others.
> My blinders might finally be coming off.
> I may finally be seeing things the way they really are.
> So, congratulate me.I do, sweetie!
> I'm a stronger person than I ever was, but I had to walk through hell to get here. And I mean, how stable am I really?
Sounds like stable to me!
> I don't know.
> But I do know when someone is hurting me, and I hope I'm getting strong enough to learn that someone else's ugliness does not have to reflect upon me.That is THEIR stuff...the ugliness...that is NOT you...Hugs, Ally
Posted by allisonross on October 31, 2005, at 13:09:55
In reply to Dear Allison,, posted by Susan47 on October 30, 2005, at 12:44:11
> How does your reality bite, right now?
>
> > Have been in love with my therapist for 2 years, and what he has been doing is called "seductive behavior"...I have always loved it, but now I know it is not good for me, but am not ready to confront him.
> >
> > I've confronted him on other issues (not afraid to speak my mind).
>
> I wasn't either, to begin with. I told my T exactly but EXACTLY how he affected me, and his response was in looking concerned, a bit shaken actually, not wanting to have physical contact with me or even eye contact with me during and afterward, and when I insisted on a handshake, it was sweaty.That was creepy. There isn't anything my t won't discuss with me (even tho is he behaving seductively with me); he stays professsional most of the time; and handles my feelings with incredible delicacy and sensitivity....never mind I am sitting there feeling squeamish (at telling him what I have).
I mean, mushy and damp. Which it never was before. And I knew right then it was a doomed relationship, because my confession came AFTER I caught him openly and lasciviously staring at my almost-non-existent, at that time, breasts. And well-encased, you know, I always kept them pretty much locked away.
Ha, Ha...that is so funny, so do I (I wear a D cup).
I mean, he had to have known my admission was coming, because he has to know he does this. This sort of behaviour isn't something new to someone his age, which I think was 56 or 7 at the time. I mean, Ally, come on, he's a bloody THERAPIST for Christ's sake. He wears no wedding ring. Although he claims to be in a working marriage, he referred to his Other frequently. To the point where it became a bit suspicious, you know, like holding the carrot out to the donkey. And like a big donkey, Ally, I FELL FOR IT!!!!
Don't beat yourself up; that was HIS stuff going on.
> I HATED MYSELF FOR FALLING FOR HIS NASTY LITTLE BAG OF TRICKS, Ally.
I know.
> ONLY HE WOULD DENY WHAT HE WAS UP TO.
Well, of course...delusional...
>
> Because, to get onto one of your questions, Ally, I saw the two of them together in public, three times. And each and every time he was a bystander in the relationship. Two feet away minimum, from her, well either to the side or behind this woman, who resembles my mother for God's sake, except for her superior little Woman-Of-The-Manor (my *ss!) looks ... they are Not an Attractive Couple.Do you mean his wife? That is so funny, because a friend of mine told me that my t's wife is well, errrh, ahhh....let's just say.....church lady.
They just don't seem really together, it's like one's the boss and the other's the helper, and you don't really know which is which, because looks can be deceiving, you know? And one time she was looking at a video in the library, I didn't even know they were there, I can never remember what this woman looks like, her features are "everywoman" to me, just nothing particular about her, you know? Nothing really stands out about her, or him either, for that fact. Except that I was tantalized by this man's f*cking behaviour when he was away from her. Ally, he was like a dog in heat in a skin that's too tight.
>
> I feel terrible, and wonderful, having my eyes opened. Knowing how I was used and actually loving being used. And being hurt by it too.I am hurt for you; I am living that.
And his ignorance of his own behaviour is so funny, Ally. It's funny and I would split a gut laughing if I hadn't spent such a long time in the trap of his seduction.
>
> He's a seducing T, Ally. It's true. I've heard him with his patients, and he's like that with couples and single women, but I don't know about single men. I think they make him buckle down a bit and stop acting.
>
> I know and I knew he couldn't be trusted, but I wanted to be special, I didn't want to be like all the others. And the fact is maybe that I wasn't.That is what is so sad; they know how vuleranable we are and use that (really sick).
> Maybe I rebelled.
Congratulations, sweetie!
>
Posted by allisonross on October 31, 2005, at 13:14:50
In reply to Ally? Are you still there?, posted by Susan47 on October 30, 2005, at 14:13:47
> Susan: yes, I am still here; my computer glitched up; so am at work now.
I just realized something, well I knew it for a long time but I'm putting it into words now, that I'll bet he triggers a lot of female patients into threatening suicide because they get so desperate for the attention he keeps flashing promises of.
Unethical and sick, sick, sick
> So I'm wondering, who's sick, here? Him, or his "patients"?
He is...His patients are simply hurting, needy people in need of help.
Maybe nobody, maybe it's all "transference", the big psychological term which has more than one meaning.. one of them is "excuse for inadequate behaviour from the professional side of a therapeutic alliance"
> What an *sshole. I wish I could see him and tell him that. But it would never happen, he's not the type of person who responds well to criticism.Hey, NO ONE responds well to criticism. Are you still with him? If not, you could write a letter, and tell him just what you think. This is called RESTORATIVE JUSTICE--This is what you did---this is how it made me feel...has NOTHING to do with what his feelings are, and everything...to do with how you feel about he treated you.
I'm quite sure of that. He's very good at pointed self-delusion.
> I wonder if he wears a wedding band, yet.
> After so many years of marriage, he must have been married close to thirty years. How unprofessional.
> I think I had a reason to fall off the sanity wagon. Maybe I should consider a support group. If it were important enough to me, I would.Sounds like it is.
If I knew of enough women that this has happened to, I would do that.
Start your OWN group.....this is bigger than we hear about, or is reported to State licensing Boards.
Perhaps even there would be a few therapists in town who would be wise and good and honest enough to support something like that. I doubt it, though. Most would, I suspect, sagely nod their heads and give some noncomittal remark which would be of no help whatsoever. Because quite frankly, I think I am talking here about a profession that has become completely paranoid and schizophrenic in its behaviour.
> Maybe that should be a conference subect for the 2006 conference. Hah. Would it ever happen?Like I said: Start your own group. Did you read: In Session: Women and the Bond with their therapists? I just read it: Excellent!!
Hugs n love, Ally
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