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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by daisym on May 13, 2005, at 23:02:33
This is a bad idea -- trying to post when I feel so darn low. So I came home and self medicated with margaritas (probably a no no with ADs but I kinda forgot) and I don't feel any better. Things are so out of control and I feel lost and alone.
Work has been horrid -- as the boss I'm taking the brunt of the fallout from the budget cuts. I cut hours and salaries and we'll stay alive, but I feel guilty and responsible for everything. I even laid off my assistant -- we've worked together for 18 years. So I'm devastated and without personal support. And the worst is that most everyone is taking it well, lots of tears but gracious and supportive of each other. It would be better if they yelled at me -- I'm sure that is to come.
Therapy is an equal nightmare. I'm stuck, wrapped tight, unable to talk about all of this much because I begin to cry and I won't allow myself to cry about it all. I open up and begin to start talking the last ten minutes of the session. Last night I got home and 20 minutes later I called up and said, "I know you are frustrated with me. Please don't give up on me." My therapist called back and said, "I'm not frustrated at all. I understand why you've pulled away and it's OK. I'll be here when you are ready." BUT IT IS NOT OK!
I just don't know how to let him help me. I don't even know what I want him to help with. Today he pushed me to begin to write again. Last weekend I shredded my journal and deleted all my electronic files. He said he felt punched in the stomach by that news. Like I'm trying to kill off a part of me. That part of me is hurting, because there is no space or time for "her" issues. I have to be the strong, false self I always have been. But now I don't really want to be. But I must be. I did write a little last night. But all that comes out on paper is despair and longing...and I see anger trickling in. I told him that today too...in a whisper, at the end of the phone call: "What if the blockage is anger? It seems to be coming out on paper, from all the parts of me." His answer was simply, "Well, there it is." What does that mean? Was he expecting it? How can this be OK? I don't think it is wise to be angry at a time like this -- anger is not productive. And if I can't talk in therapy now, if I've lost my connection to my therapist, how is allowing anger in the room going to help me reconnect? I'm scared I'll NEVER be able to reconnect, to trust him with these dark thoughts and feelings and I'll be alone with all this. Again.
*sigh* I think I'm about to the point where I just need to shut down and stop trying. If I don't feel anything, at least I won't hurt. I guess I thought margaritas would numb me out. They aren't working except to allow me to write this sappy post. You don't have to reply. There is nothing really to say. I shouldn't even post this. I just, selfishly, want someone else to know how deeply I'm hurting.
Posted by LadyBug on May 14, 2005, at 0:07:46
In reply to Another pity part for me, posted by daisym on May 13, 2005, at 23:02:33
(((((((Daisym)))))))
I can feel your pain and frustrations in your life. I can feel how tired you are. I'm so sorry you are hurting. I can't imagine the ongoing horrid stuff you have had to face. I wish I could stop the bus and let you get off.
You have a patient T. He wants to be there for you. I believe that you can and will get through this time in your life. I might be hard but it won't stay this way. Nothing lasts forever, not even pain. Things will change. I'm not saying they will be all better real soon, but they will change. I'm thinking about you and hoping you find some peace real soon.
Write it out here and let your feelings out. I believe it helps get rid of them. Like getting rid of poison.
Do take care. I hope you let us know how your doing and keep us posted. I know I'm new, but that doesn't mean I don't care. I do. I find you to be an amazing person. You can do it!!!LadyBug
Posted by messadivoce on May 14, 2005, at 0:41:59
In reply to Another pity part for me, posted by daisym on May 13, 2005, at 23:02:33
Daisy, if anything it is good to see you on the board, even if it is at a moment of margarita-soaked misery.
I'm sorry about work. It must be so hard to make those kind of choices when friends are involved. It sounds as though they understand that it's not your fault. You're just the "fall-guy" that has to dish out the unpleasentness. That can't be a fun person to be. :-(
I'm sorry about the lack of connection with your T. I hope you will not be afraid of the anger. You say that there's no room for little Daisy right now, but is it little Daisy who is angry that she can't be taken care of? Is the adult you angry because no one is taking care of you and you're having to take care of everyone?
I think your T can handle your anger. I hope you will give it a chance. Maybe now is the time? Honestly, I don't think that squashing it all will make it go away. I worry it will just hurt you more. Margaritas can help temporarily, but I find that when I drink when I'm sad, it just makes me even more transparent and vulnerable and a mess. ;-)
Daisy, I personally don't believe that God will give us more to deal with than we are able.
Posted by Dinah on May 14, 2005, at 8:34:12
In reply to Another pity part for me, posted by daisym on May 13, 2005, at 23:02:33
Oh, Daisy. I'm sorry. Being the boss is much harder than not being a boss, I think. I know you know you're doing your best, but it still hurts I'm sure.
If it helps any, my therapist says a relationship can't be very deep if you never let anger in the room. That anger is one of the paths to intimacy. That pretending you aren't angry or trying to stifle the anger is more of a relationship impediment than anger ever is. Not that he's in favor of indiscriminate shedding of anger, with no regard for the other person. But he thinks healthy expressions of anger are good.
It would be reasonable enough for you to be angry with anyone you perceive to be making your life more difficult than it already is. And that could include your therapist. Maybe the blockage isn't your anger so much as your fear of expressing it.
I sometimes do visualizations for that. I imagine myself, or a part of myself, wherever it needs to be confronting whoever it needs to confront and say to myself something like "I'm really angry right now because..." then sit back and listen to myself.
You've got more than enough reasons to be angry right now. Maybe that's what therapy needs to be for a while.
Posted by Shortelise on May 14, 2005, at 12:38:52
In reply to Another pity part for me, posted by daisym on May 13, 2005, at 23:02:33
Here's what I think:
I think you can be the boss and be the real you.
I think it scares the pants off you to consider it.
What if you try and fail?
Hey, here's the very cool thing - IT'S ALL YOU!
In you are all the facets of you, see what I mean? You can be all of the things you are.
Dinah, you are so close to breaking through all of this, so close to giving birth to the evolved version of you. The new and improved.
With your T, you let the anger in the room, and you see your T is right there, and you connect. The anger is your connection. What's broken the connection is your refusal to allow what's really going on with you into the room.
Dinah, I send you words of rage. Not rage itself, but the words to say it. And the bellowing breaths to utter them. And I send you faith in yourself and your T, whom as you know I love.
ShortE
Posted by Poet on May 14, 2005, at 14:13:56
In reply to Another pity part for me, posted by daisym on May 13, 2005, at 23:02:33
(((((((Daisy))))))))
I regularly self medicate with alcohol, so no criticism for your maragaritas from me.
I'm sorry for what is happening at work, but try hard to remember that budget cuts are not your fault. Your staff won't yell at you, they understand. Their tears weren't angry tears they were I wish we could all still work together tears. They don't hate you.
I understand shredding your journal and electronic files. You are trying to wipe out some part of you, I try to eliminate the part of me who wants to be cared about. Show that I am an island who needs nobody. Is that how you feel, too?
I think it's okay if what is coming out on paper is anger. Pdoc told me that anger turned inward is depression. Maybe that's why your T didn't seem surprised that what you are letting out is anger.
Believe him that it's okay to pull away and he'll be there for you when you feel ready to come back. I still barely talk in therapy, but T says that what I do reveal is like little pearls. Keep giving your T those little pearls even if he needs a magnifying glass to see them.
More hugs.
Poet
Posted by fallsfall on May 14, 2005, at 14:42:30
In reply to Another pity part for me, posted by daisym on May 13, 2005, at 23:02:33
(((Daisy)))
Just be you. You are such a wonderful person. Your staff at work know it. That's why they aren't angry at you. They know that you are genuine.
Just be you in therapy. Don't try to plan it. Don't strategize. Don't decide to be one way or another way. Just be you. If you are angry, then let yourself be angry. If you are scared, be scared. Don't try to *make* yourself be any particular way. Deep inside, you know what you need. Don't let your conscious mind keep you from getting it.
Trust that you - the real you - are a good person. I know that is true. Your therapist will be there with you, supporting you in whatever way you need. Let him do that.
Let us help you, too.
Love,
Falls
Posted by pinkeye on May 14, 2005, at 14:58:00
In reply to Another pity part for me, posted by daisym on May 13, 2005, at 23:02:33
I perfectly understand what you are going through. Life seems overwhelming many times. I am little bit in the same boat now as well.
I honestly don't know what to say to you right now - perhaps if you believe in God that might be a good refuge. I don't know if you have trust though.
Take it easy on yourself - though I know it is easier to say than to do.
Really, this world is full of troubles. One after anohter, in some form or another. And everyone has to go through it. It looks as if it is a very pessmimstic view of life, but actually you get lot of confidence from knowing that it is the same for everyone. And that everyone goes through it and survives. There is always some worry or the other in life - either about money, or about health, or about relationships, or about our own satisfaction, or about relatives, or about parents, or about kids. The list is endless. And the truth is, we don't really control too much of anything. Lot of it is given to us. AS they say, what you can do is just do your duty, without hanging on to the rewards for now. If you need to fire your secretary, just do it as a duty you need to fulfill.
That kind of attitude helps me somewhat.
Posted by shrinking violet on May 14, 2005, at 16:03:28
In reply to Another pity part for me, posted by daisym on May 13, 2005, at 23:02:33
> >This is a bad idea -- trying to post when I feel so darn low. So I came home and self medicated with margaritas (probably a no no with ADs but I kinda forgot) and I don't feel any better. Things are so out of control and I feel lost and alone.
---{{{{{{{{daisy}}}}}}}}}} I'm so sorry you're feeling so badly right now. You are not alone though, please know that. I am there with you. And this is exactly the time you should be posting.
>> .... My therapist called back and said, "I'm not frustrated at all. I understand why you've pulled away and it's OK. I'll be here when you are ready." BUT IT IS NOT OK!
---It IS okay, sweets. It IS.
>> I just don't know how to let him help me. ... I did write a little last night. But all that comes out on paper is despair and longing...and I see anger trickling in. I told him that today too...in a whisper, at the end of the phone call: "What if the blockage is anger? It seems to be coming out on paper, from all the parts of me." His answer was simply, "Well, there it is." What does that mean? Was he expecting it? How can this be OK? I don't think it is wise to be angry at a time like this -- anger is not productive. And if I can't talk in therapy now, if I've lost my connection to my therapist, how is allowing anger in the room going to help me reconnect? I'm scared I'll NEVER be able to reconnect, to trust him with these dark thoughts and feelings and I'll be alone with all this. Again.--- Gosh I can relate to this so much. First, from my own experience with my (*sniff* ex-) T, I know that you can be in the same room and still connect without words. Sometimes silence is more powerful than anything that can be expressed verbally if both sides are willing to tolerate the quiet and let it sink inside in a deep way. Not an easy thing to do, especially for most T's, but it can be a great thing when two people are still connected without having to speak. And it sounds l ike your T is very open and connected to you, even if you don't feel it right now. As for the anger....(ugh, another issue for me).......True, anger can be useless in a lot of situations. But it is still an emotion and (so I've been told) all emotions are okay to have. That's why we have different ones, because the same one doesn't always fit in every situation. I feel so very guilty and remorseful right now because, like you, I've either let anger in the room with my T, or directed it at her or (a lot of times) she misread my fear as anger, and I think it hurt our work together a lot, BUT only because I couuldn't/wouldn't explore it. I couldn't explain it. I couldn't examine it. I wouldn't let her help me with it. So, yes, I think it hurt me and our work together, and I feel like now I'm being punished for it, and I feel so badly because it seems that other people end up comforting my T because all I ever seemed to do was hurt her. :-( But, Daisy, take some direction from someone who has been there and wishes I could take it all back and do it again: It isn't the anger itself that is harmful; it's what you do or don't do with it. Yes, bringing it into the room and letting it "sit" there without trying to figure it out may cause some temporary problems and miscommunincations with your T (or, maybe not.....it does seem like he understands your anger right now and is willing to hold it for you until you are ready to look at it with him, which is a great thing), but experiencing it in itself is ok. Give it to him, bring it with you if it's what you feel right now. But work through it, figure it out, control it. Burying it and ignoring it isn't going to help, sweetie.
I wish you peace and love right now. I hope you can feel it.
>> *sigh* I think I'm about to the point where I just need to shut down and stop trying. If I don't feel anything, at least I won't hurt. I guess I thought margaritas would numb me out. They aren't working except to allow me to write this sappy post. You don't have to reply. There is nothing really to say. I shouldn't even post this. I just, selfishly, want someone else to know how deeply I'm hurting.--You aren't selfish, daisy, not at all. Maybe that's 'why I post here too, even though that nagging voice is telling me I shouldn't be so inconsiderate. Please don't shut down......You can and will work through this.
{{{{{{daisy}}}}}}}
Posted by gardenergirl on May 14, 2005, at 16:26:09
In reply to Another pity part for me, posted by daisym on May 13, 2005, at 23:02:33
> This is a bad idea -- trying to post when I feel so darn low. So I came home and self medicated with margaritas (probably a no no with ADs but I kinda forgot) and I don't feel any better. Things are so out of control and I feel lost and alone.
((((Daisy))))...did you put on Jimmy Buffett with the margaritas?
>
> Work has been horrid -- as the boss I'm taking the brunt of the fallout from the budget cuts. I cut hours and salaries and we'll stay alive, but I feel guilty and responsible for everything.Oh gosh. That must be so hard. I had to lay off my whole staff once when a store closed. It was one of the hardest things I had ever done. And I felt so guilty even though I was just the messenger. I'm sorry you have to go through that. It's very stressful. I know that no one blames you. Blame that puffy haired dude who made the cuts. It's not your fault, and I bet you are doing this very gracefully and in a wonderfully caring manner.
>It would be better if they yelled at me -- I'm sure that is to come.
Sweetie, they may feel anger and hurt, and maybe they will yell at some point. But I feel quite certain it will not be AT you. It will be an expression of their feelings about the situation...one you are not to blame for.
>
> Therapy is an equal nightmare. I'm stuck, wrapped tight, unable to talk about all of this much because I begin to cry and I won't allow myself to cry about it all.What do you find so upsetting about crying about this? I think this is a very cry-worthy situation. I'm sorry it doesn't feel safe and connected right now. Gosh, you have so much going on. But you know, it's okay to talk about whatever you need to in therapy. That's why it's there. Work stuff, marriage stuff, gas prices, inner psyche stuff, it's all fair game.
>BUT IT IS NOT OK!
I'm not sure what is not okay. Are you feeling that you are not being "a good client?" Or are you not getting what you need from therapy right now?
>I did write a little last night. But all that comes out on paper is despair and longing...and I see anger trickling in. I told him that today too...in a whisper, at the end of the phone call: "What if the blockage is anger? It seems to be coming out on paper, from all the parts of me." His answer was simply, "Well, there it is." What does that mean? Was he expecting it? How can this be OK? I don't think it is wise to be angry at a time like this -- anger is not productive.
I'm glad you started writing again. It sounds like you feel freer doing that than talking at times. And if anger is what is coming out, that's okay, Daisy. If it's what's there, it's what's there. It doesn't have to be productive or make sense. It just is. It doesn't change how I feel about you. I can't imagine it will change how your T feels about you.
>And if I can't talk in therapy now, if I've lost my connection to my therapist, how is allowing anger in the room going to help me reconnect? I'm scared I'll NEVER be able to reconnect, to trust him with these dark thoughts and feelings and I'll be alone with all this. Again.
Believe it or not, when I allowed (or at least experienced...not sure how much control over it I had) anger and "mixing it up" into my therapy relationship, it has led to a deeper experience and new insights. I feel more connected again, and I think I'm doing better with outside therapy stuff. I told my T it feels much more "real" since that bad session. Neither of us have to be "ideal". We can just be.
>
> I just, selfishly, want someone else to know how deeply I'm hurting.
>There's nothing selfish about your post. It's a human need to feel understood and seen as you really feel and really our.
I'm glad you posted. I missed hearing from you, whatever you have to say.
Next time, can I have margaritas with you? (can I have tequila while taking an MAOI?)
((((daisy))))
gg
>
Posted by daisym on May 14, 2005, at 18:42:17
In reply to Re: Another pity part for me » daisym, posted by gardenergirl on May 14, 2005, at 16:26:09
I'm nursing a hang-over today. God's punishment for self-pity I guess. My husband said I looked dead last night and it scared him. All I could say was I was sorry about that. I felt dead inside.
I appreciate what everyone had to say and all the hugs. I don't think I have a vocabulary for anger so I don't know how to talk about it. And I guess i think I don't deserve to be angry about all of this. Some part of me thinks that if I had been doing my job better I could have headed this off at the pass. (OK, so I can't control the state budget but still...) I told my therapist I have been "distracted" and he said that is the understatement of the year. He said I've been "distracted, fragmented, suicidal, depressed, anxious, flooded with flashbacks" and a bunch of other things. My response was, "is that supposed to make me feel better?" He said no -- just that many people would have stopped working and I was still doing my job at least adequately from what he could see and he reminded me about the successes I have had over the past year. It was still very hard to hear. Harder to believe.
I think the other thing that is so distressing is that I think part of this anger is about how disruptive all this work stuff has been to my work in therapy. I feel side-swiped, like it was all yanked away and the past two years mean nothing. Or like I should have known better to attempt to resolve any of this. Maybe the Pdoc was right, maybe this just isn't the time for deep therapy. My life is so complicated. So why does typing that bring tears to my eyes?
Thanks again to all of you. It is nice to be cared for.
I love you all!
Posted by daisym on May 14, 2005, at 19:09:07
In reply to Re: Another pity part for me » daisym, posted by pinkeye on May 14, 2005, at 14:58:00
I wanted to respond to this part of your post. I do believe in God. Church use to be a refuge for me. But I've questioned on and off whether God deserted me when I was young, it is hard to know why these things are allowed to happen. I even asked this question of the guest expert on the Faith Board. I know about free will and I know that bad things just happen. But still...
I find that when things are really bad, I fall back to praying. We talk about this in therapy sometimes. My Catholic upbringing influences my guilt and my responsible personality. And I still go to Church. It is always interesting to discuss dogma with a Jewish therapist. He sees Church as both a stabalizing influence on me as well as something that prohibited my ability to "confess" what was happening at my house. One of those double edge swords, I guess.
Posted by pinkeye on May 14, 2005, at 20:01:22
In reply to God » pinkeye, posted by daisym on May 14, 2005, at 19:09:07
I agree. It is a double edged sword..
For me also the same - sometimes I feel it helps, sometimes, it is just not possible to live up to the expectation of religion to be a good person. So it induces guilt.
But many times, it has kind of helped me. Many times I don't know what I am doing - if it will turn out to be ok or not. So it kind of helps to have that confidence, that maybe things will turn out right. Maybe it is what therapists call the basic optimism or confidence or positive living. Just by myself, I find that I am not able to be optimistic or confident or positive. So instead I just pray and hope that God will somehow see to it that things become allright. But my hsuband takes it to the extreme, and I don't like it.
Posted by Racer on May 15, 2005, at 13:35:23
In reply to Another pity part for me, posted by daisym on May 13, 2005, at 23:02:33
You remind me of me, when I stop eating. I pull all my tentacles back in, and there's nothing to me to grab on to, so I can slip away from anything and everything. No predator can catch me.
And I can stay strong, and lean, and hard, and get things done, and FORCE myself through almost anything -- but you know what? All I'm really doing is numbing myself. Am I any happier for not being able to feel? Um... I'm less distressed, because I can't feel it, but you know what? I don't think I am happier... I think happiness is a feeling, too...
DaisyMae, honey, you and I both know that this ain't the way to go. The problem is, as you say, you've lost a lot recently, and it's damned hard to think about risking hurting any more than you already are.
What you're experiencing is not pity, honey -- it's called "grief," and it's natural. You should be grieving, when you've had losses like this. Give yourself permission to grieve, so that you can emerge from the other side of it.
And Daisy? I have an assignment for you, if you want it: sit yourself down, and write a letter to a friend of yours who is experiencing the same stresses and losses you're going through right now. Write it to someone you love, what advice would you give her? How would you suggest that she take care of herself? What would you offer her to hold on to, to help her through this period?
When you've finished writing that letter, read it over and see if you would ever offer yourself the same caring kindness, and good advice? If not, why not?
And then, stop thinking, and try to take your own advice. Be kind to yourself, as you are kind to others.
Be well.
Posted by antigua on May 18, 2005, at 10:25:01
In reply to Another pity part for me, posted by daisym on May 13, 2005, at 23:02:33
I'm late to this, but I wanted to tell you to hold on. You're riding a wave right now and not sure where it's headed. You will come out o.k. on the other end. You may get brusied from toppling through the water, but you will stand up and walk back to the beach. You are going through big stuff now, but it will recede. Be as nice to yourself as you can be.
best,
antigua
This is the end of the thread.
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