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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jadah on March 20, 2005, at 16:10:05
hi guys, its been awhile since Ive been here. Im the one that was having a sexual affair with my T. Well, Im STILL in love with my T. Believe it or not I am still seeing him for therapy. We still do things together and remain intimate, although it is no longer sexual. I think it could easily go that route again but... I come alive when Im with him. Hes all I think about. We spend a lot of time together and Im just happy to still have him in my life. He couldnt keep betraying his wife, nor could he continue to have a sexual relationship with me without feeling bad about compromising ethics in the workplace and hurting everyone, including me. I do miss making love to him, and we both often get "excited" when we see eachother but I am just enjoying being held by him, laying with him, hearing the loving things he says to me, being able to be vulnerable about my life and all that is involved in it. He is the only one I could talk to, cry in front of. He genuinely cares. He is consistant, always there when I need him, be it to talk, laugh or cry. Its wierd, he's almost kind of like my best friend. He encourages me to date and hopes I will find someone that can give me everything... he cant, not with a wife, children, and a thriving practice. We both know that. I have learned alot from him and our brief affair. He has taught me that not all men are going to treat me badly, he's given me a standard of qualities and character to look for in a person, he taught me that despite all of my past abuse, I can be intimate with a man without wanting to crawl out of my skin, I can feel safe. He helps me to see the good in myself. I know it all sounds crazy. Our relationship can withstand anything. Sex or no sex, he is filling my hole. I love him always. We worked past the hurt, anger, disappointment. Without him I would have been dead a long time ago. We are ok now. There it is, look at it any way you wish :)Nice to be back, for now anyway.
Jadah
Posted by Susan47 on March 20, 2005, at 17:15:16
In reply to tis been awhile, posted by Jadah on March 20, 2005, at 16:41:58
It's nice to hear you're surviving, Jadah. Welcome back.
Posted by Tamar on March 20, 2005, at 19:48:47
In reply to tis been awhile, posted by Jadah on March 20, 2005, at 16:41:58
Gosh, Jadah, that sounds pretty tough. You know he loves you but he can’t give you what you want because he won’t compromise his ethics any more and won’t leave his wife and kids. It doesn’t sound like an easy kind of love. You say he encourages you to date so I was wondering if you are dating people. Clearly you got past his professional boundaries, and you feel you’ve gained a lot from the experience, but has it been therapeutic for you? Can you extrapolate from your experience with him and look for intimacy with other men? I’m happy for you insofar as you’ve found pleasure after abuse. It’s a wonderful thing to overcome some of the pain. Is it possible for you to find pleasure with a man who isn’t married and isn’t your therapist? Please understand, I’m not trying to judge you or him; I just hope your therapy is genuinely therapeutic for you.
Tamar
Posted by Pfinstegg on March 21, 2005, at 11:39:58
In reply to been awhile....., posted by Jadah on March 20, 2005, at 16:10:05
I'm very glad you came back to tell us what has evolved for you. I know you are in a very different position from most of us posting here, and I know, for myself, that the sexual desire and longings I've had for my therapist get talked about (sometimes it seems like we have to talk about them forever!), but the result is always a calming down of those feelings and a certainty that they will never be acted upon. It doesn't make them go away, entirely, but it keeps me focussed on my own separate future. Even though your experience is out of the range of what most of us have experienced, there are clearly some really good things which have happened- feeling so safe and loved, so understood and cared for. This seemed to have occurred both when you were having a sexual relationship, and afterwards. No-one should argue with making such wonderful personal strides towards a full emotional and sexual life. I hope you'll be able to tell us at some point that these gains are truly yours, and can be taken outside of this relationship so that you can have your own rewarding and joyful life separately, as you both know now that it cannot be together..
Posted by pinkeye on March 21, 2005, at 19:04:33
In reply to tis been awhile, posted by Jadah on March 20, 2005, at 16:41:58
Take Care Jadah. It was nice to hear from you. I hope things turn out well for you and your ex T and that no one gets hurt too much in the process.
Sometimes all we can do is just wish for some magical star to step in and correct everything in our lives.
I don't know what would be good for you - to continue your relationship or to not continue. I think slowly backing off and trying to find someone else might be a good answer. Your T does seem like a good person even though he has violated boundaries big time. It is evident from his efforts in trying to get you to date and find other men. Maybe according to professional ethics, he is totally wrong, but from a more humane point of view, what he has done seems acceptable to me.
Posted by tryingtobewise on March 23, 2005, at 13:57:26
In reply to been awhile....., posted by Jadah on March 20, 2005, at 16:10:05
Sorry but I'm not going to be politically correct or emotionally affirming here...
So lets see, he basically has two women on the line. One his Wife, and one his Client. Clue #1 that this is not a stand-up guy.
He is "technically" faithful to his wife, yet lays with you, tells you loving things, gets excited by you, etc. Not really my definition of a true and trustworthy husband, or an even a remotely ethical therapist.
He has you so hooked you are believing this is all in your best interest, that you are learning to be treated well!(?) Huh? I *really* hope you are not paying (money) for the privelage of having him as your therapist.
No matter how it feels & what you are selling yourself (yes, I meant "selling" not "telling"), this guy is no prize as a husband or a therapist.
Kim
Posted by Susan47 on March 25, 2005, at 20:22:33
In reply to Re: tis been awhile » Jadah, posted by pinkeye on March 21, 2005, at 19:04:33
I had to read three times the word "acceptable" before I believed it. It just doesn't sound right. I think because if the therapist's wife finds out what he's done she's going to be destroyed. And to me that is unacceptable BUT if he did it, she also has the right to know he did that. So it's horrible, the whole situation from the point of view of the T and his family is unacceptable I think, unless he and his wife have an open marriage, and that idea's not in vogue right now, there's not a lot of that going on because of all the diseases people can catch now, that brought heads up sharply; but I don't think it's wrong either, forive me for saying this I know it'll offend a lot of unfortunate people, but I don't think it's wrong to love more than one person at the same time, in the same way. I think it's quite wonderful, really. Look at Mormon wives, the ones who illegally engage in polygamy; the vast majority of them seems to love one another and their husband and all their children. It takes a lot of real human love and understanding to share love, period. Look at how jealous people can get over love. Isn't sharing love, then, looked at that way, isn't it a wonderful gift? I've thought about this I know people who engaged in that behaviour, and I suspect my husband does right now, but I don't know for sure, I mean, sharing a woman, that is ... but maybe that's just my mind. But you know, I know this. I know this woman well, she was a very very good friend of mine for a while, and she's a lovely person, she is, and I like her except for this thing she has to do all the time, like expose body parts to men, and her husband is the same way, he exposes himself to other friends of theirs. They never engaged in this behaviour when I was with them but I heard the stories about it from both of them, and sex in the backyard (they have no shrubbery at all, except for a bit at the very back) in a full moon, (actually that's wonderful, but they seemed to love the exhibitionism aspect of it, they always talk about almost getting caught, giving the neighbours a thrill, etc. I think that's kind of cool, really, okay, I don't know if I would ever attempt it but more secretively, it's great, fabulous, and if my ex is engaging in some wild behaviour in a "safe" way, I'm actually okay with that, I wish him well and I hope all three of them are happy. I think they are, actually. He seems a lot happier, lately. Nice guy.
Posted by pinkeye on March 25, 2005, at 22:02:39
In reply to Re: tis been awhile » pinkeye, posted by Susan47 on March 25, 2005, at 20:22:33
Given the very intense emotional nature of therapy, it is of course very easy to lose control. If patients can get this emotional, therapists will feel some of it also.. So I am not going to judge a therapist too harshly for giving in to his emotional side once.. Of course if it is a habit, and he uses his profession to satisify his personal agenda all the time, it would be a different story. But once - nah, I am not going to be too harsh.
People have affairs all the time, and the wives/husbands need not know about it. Knowing it won't help anything. What difference does it make if you are a therapist having an affair or a regular guy having an affair ? Other than the fact that it kind of amounts to double violation of ethics - both personal and professional.
All of us are human, and it would be incredibly hard for all of us to control the urges all the time just because we are married. And many times we are not at liberty to leave the marriages because of several other reasons - stability, kids, long term partnership concern etc. So a brief affair is nothing.
Personally, I don't think I will ever have an affair myself.. but I won't be too hard on anybody for having an affair. Not to say that is right or great - but just that it is acceptable and not an unpardonable offense.
Posted by Dinah on March 25, 2005, at 22:17:30
In reply to Re: tis been awhile » Susan47, posted by pinkeye on March 25, 2005, at 22:02:39
Speak for yourself.
If my husband were to have an affair... Well, first I'd call the government to tell them pod people are taking over the world. But then I'd divorce him.
And if my therapist did it with a patient and got his license yanked, I'll make him every bit as sorry as his wife would, I assure you. To betray and abandon me like that would destroy every bit of trust I had left in my soul for anyone.
Having an affair is not acceptable in this marriage or for a man I respect and trust as much as my therapist.
(Nothing to do with you, Jadah. Just commenting on the idea that an affair is no big deal.)
Posted by pinkeye on March 26, 2005, at 0:29:31
In reply to Re: tis been awhile » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on March 25, 2005, at 22:17:30
I don't know Dinah. A colleague of mine confessed to me that she has had 3 affairs in her marriage, and I don't find it difficult to take - her husband is physically somewhat handicapped and I find that I am able to accept her.
And I know in lots of marriages, one partner is just not what the other person expects - and they don't want to break the marriage because of kids - so in those cases, what to do? Go on throughout your life living in hell or atleast to have an affair and be ok with life?
I am not speaking of ordinary, good marriages. When both the parties are behaving well and like each other, an affair will be mind blowing. But when one of them is just not behaving well or being rude or being incosiderate, and the other person for some reason has to live with the marriage, then it might be acceptable if other person finds some solace elsewhere. I think it is a very humane thing.
But as for as a therapist goes - I can see your point - the other patients will be betrayed as well. So the wife, himself, the woman, and all the other patient getting hurt is probably not good. So yes, I also think a therapist having an affair with a patient and having his license revoked is not that good. Because it hurts his wife, himself, the woman in the end, and all the other patients.
Posted by Dinah on March 26, 2005, at 1:04:38
In reply to Re: tis been awhile » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on March 26, 2005, at 0:29:31
I don't judge anyone in particular. A friend or two of mine has confessed to infidelity, and I remain neutral. But to the idea in general, yes as a wife I thoroughly object. Unless both partners are openly aware. It didn't come up with my friends because their husbands already knew, but if they hadn't I'd have suggested they just run it by them to make sure they had their ok.
I'm not going to say especially in this day and age because the problems of philandering spouses bringing home STD's is age old. And syphilis in the good old days wreaked havoc.
But perhaps we should move the question of infidelity to another thread. :)
Posted by Susan47 on March 26, 2005, at 7:53:35
In reply to Re: tis been awhile » Susan47, posted by pinkeye on March 25, 2005, at 22:02:39
I never thought I'd have an affair either, but I was pursued a few times by married men I worked with; at the time I just didn't want them. And too I knew it would've been bad for me. But now I would. I know well, I really feel like I'm mistress material right now. I'm sure that'll change too, but I don't feel it's wrong if it's right (sounds strange but isn't, I know I know).
Posted by Dinah on March 26, 2005, at 9:37:08
In reply to Re: tis been awhile » pinkeye, posted by Susan47 on March 26, 2005, at 7:53:35
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20050316/msgs/475746.html
Because I'm not sure this thread is an appropriate place for a general discussion of infidelity and the merits or demerits of same.
Posted by Susan47 on March 30, 2005, at 11:32:50
In reply to Re: tis been awhile » pinkeye, posted by Susan47 on March 26, 2005, at 7:53:35
I just wonder how the therapist's wife, how her life with him is now. Does she suspect? Has anything changed? Does he reach for her with the same desire he used to, before Jadah? Does she feel any difference in his touch, in his words, in his glances? Is he more tender with her, or more fierce?
When he looks at his child, when he plays with his son (I think it was a baby boy, wasn't it?) does he think, I'm lucky I only have this one child with this one woman ... does he focus in on his child, on the playtime, on the laughs, the hugs, the wonderful weighty softness of the child in his arms, the trust that's built ...Life is so unbearably complicated.
Posted by Susan47 on March 30, 2005, at 11:51:08
In reply to Re: tis been awhile, posted by Susan47 on March 30, 2005, at 11:32:50
But at least he stuck it through with Jadah. Imagine if his feelings for her hadn't been sincere, and he dumped her when he'd had enough. At least he stuck it through until she felt good, at least she believes he loves her and did the best for her. That is good in any case. I do hope he hasn't hurt himself or his family life too badly. And if he were smart he'd never tell, he'd see a therapist himself. Yes, I hope he's seeing a therapist.
People have affairs all the time, they do and if we pretend they don't we're lying to ourselves. Yes, there're people who never do, and are happy without doing that. And there're people who do have affairs, extra-marital affairs of the heart and simply satisfying physically ... but you know, these people always learn something. I'm trying to work this out. Because someone I know this happened with, and his wife was unsuspecting until he actually told her, and it hurt her, but I have to say that it changed her for the better, you know. It did. It really made her a more capable, caring, attractive woman ... suddenly, it's like she woke up and went, Wow, I better try harder. Because she had been rejecting him for years. And her hygiene, you know, it wasn't the best, and there were lots of things that weren't fair to him, and he used to tell her that but it never made any difference until she actually had proof of how unhappy he was. He didn't have the affair to hurt her, or to change her, he had it because his heart was aching and his body was unsatisfied and unloved ... these things happen, Dinah, sorry.
Posted by Susan47 on March 31, 2005, at 9:25:41
In reply to Re: tis been awhile, posted by Susan47 on March 30, 2005, at 11:32:50
> I just wonder how the therapist's wife, how her life with him is now. Does she suspect? Has anything changed? Does he reach for her with the same desire he used to, before Jadah? Does she feel any difference in his touch, in his words, in his glances? Is he more tender with her, or more fierce?
> When he looks at his child, when he plays with his son (I think it was a baby boy, wasn't it?) does he think, I'm lucky I only have this one child with this one woman ... does he focus in on his child, on the playtime, on the laughs, the hugs, the wonderful weighty softness of the child in his arms, the trust that's built ...
>
> Life is so unbearably complicated.I don't know. This post doesn't show up on the main board, even after twenty-four hours. So I guess there must be a technical problem, and maybe with other threads as well.
Posted by Susan47 on March 31, 2005, at 15:19:18
In reply to Re: tis been awhile, posted by Susan47 on March 31, 2005, at 9:25:41
Well, is this one going to show up on the proper thread? Because I'm posting it only under the last THREE messages of mine which are under DINAH's last post to me, which three messages of MINE are not showing up in this thread UNLESS you actually access it from Dinah's last post. So no, I"M NOT AN IDIOT AND THIS HASN'T BEEN WORKING PROPERLY.
Posted by Susan47 on March 31, 2005, at 15:20:23
In reply to Re: tis been awhile, posted by Susan47 on March 31, 2005, at 9:25:41
Some people just don't WANT TO UNDERSTAND.
Posted by Dinah on March 31, 2005, at 16:40:55
In reply to Re: tis been awhile, posted by Susan47 on March 31, 2005, at 15:20:23
Well, if you're referring to me, I must say that I really don't understand. I'm totally bewildered.
If you're not referring to me, I fear I'm still a bit bewildered.
Posted by Susan47 on March 31, 2005, at 18:26:34
In reply to Re: tis been awhile » Susan47, posted by Dinah on March 31, 2005, at 16:40:55
That's okay. I'm glad you're bewildered. It shows innocence. I like that. Forgive me my sadistic behaviour today. I'm in a foul mood. Can you tell? Things are not well over here. Not at all.
Posted by Susan47 on March 31, 2005, at 18:27:32
In reply to I replied to your post on Social » Susan47, posted by Dinah on March 26, 2005, at 9:37:08
Posting again, and will it show up on the main board this time, replete with all the "copies"???? Oh Susan you are foul, foul, foul, girl.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 31, 2005, at 18:32:59
In reply to Ah, and Here we Are., posted by Susan47 on March 31, 2005, at 18:27:32
> Posting again, and will it show up on the main board this time, replete with all the "copies"????
Sorry it's confusing, I consolidated these threads here on Psychology.
Bob
Posted by Dinah on March 31, 2005, at 20:38:06
In reply to Re: Here we Are., posted by Dr. Bob on March 31, 2005, at 18:32:59
Glad you understand what's going on, Dr. Bob. Guess that's why you're the big cheese. :)
(You didn't move the stuff from social and consolidate it with this thread did you? I specifically wanted it on a new thread. You could move it to relationships tho, where I probably should have directed it to begin with.)
Posted by Dinah on March 31, 2005, at 20:41:17
In reply to Re: tis been awhile, posted by Susan47 on March 31, 2005, at 18:26:34
s'okay, Susan. We all have less than wonderful days. Is it anything you need help with? Can Babblers be of assistance?
I'm not all that fond of bewilderment, but I'm glad it proved my innocence of whatever I might not have been innocent of.
This is the end of the thread.
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