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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by shrinking violet on February 15, 2005, at 18:01:28
I wish I knew what is wrong with me, and how to fix it. I went to session tonight and, again, I barely said two sentences the whole time. I was on the verge of tears, but couldn't even sob like I wanted to (at least it would have been *something*, maybe). I went in there with things I wanted to say and ask....nothing huge, but again, *something.* But I couldn't....As soon as I get there, it's like I go into a dark room and lock the door and close the blinds, put a large "do not disturb" sign on the doorknob and then huddle in a corner where nothing can reach me. Maybe nothing ever will....?
Why can't I just TALK? Why? Why? Why? I can write, I can write all day long, but I can't SAY anything. And she sits there, and tries to find things to say, and then she folds her arms (or visibly tries not to), and I'm thinking hateful things about myself, and yet I can't speak. How do I unlock this? I feel like I'm lost to myself....It's getting so painful and I don't know what to do. And my T and I have so little time left together, only a few months, and here I am still squandering it away.
I want to fix this so badly, but I don't know how. Why don't I know how?! :-( Please someone help me....
Oh, and to top it off, my T bought me a small pot of dandelions. She said she was in the grocery store the other day (on Valentine's Day, actually) and was thinking of me and bought them for me. But I couldn't take them....I couldn't say anything or react at all-- I couldn't tell her how touched I am over the gesture, I couldn't even thank her. I could only say that I didn't want them because I would kill them. She said they wouldn't last forever, but all I had to do was put them in a window and water them every day. I almost started to cry and told her Please, no, I can't. She said I wouldn't take something from someone who cares about me? I shook my head and bit my lip. Finally she said she understood, but she said it in a quiet, almost hurt way. Then I headed for the door, and she said "Hey, come here..." to give me an end-of-session hug which has somehow become the norm over the past month or so. Again I shook my head and opened the door and left. I then sobbed in the stairwell.
It hurts so much. And now I feel like I rejected her by rejecting the flower.
I don't know what to do....I can't even convey it all in writing. It just hurts.
:-(
Posted by frida on February 15, 2005, at 19:10:21
In reply to My T bought me flowers....but I wouldn't take them, posted by shrinking violet on February 15, 2005, at 18:01:28
Hi,
I haven't posted much here, I am sort of new, but I wanted to reach out to you and tell you that I've struggled with the same, I still do. :-( and my T is very patient..but I feel really bad because I can't talk. I can write hours and hours and feel urgency to go to my session and see my T, cry, let go, talk..but once I sit there, I freeze totally, I can't say anything about how I truly feel, I can't talk about my feelings, I can't go deeply into what I feel. The feeling afterwards is terribly painful. I walk out the door and sometimes I can't stop crying thinking that I missed another chance to let go and find relief and share, I do write to her, but of course it is not the same, though at least she has a way to find out what's in my heart.
I would encourage you to show her your post or write to her telling her how you felt, so the feelings don't stay inside of you.
My T always tell me that of course I'll feel alone and scared inside if I stay with everything inside of me and don't give words. Sometimes I manage to give her the basic information but that isn't relieving enough.
I would really encourage you to share your post with your T. She seems to truly care about you, it would bring you closer if she could know what's in your heart...
I don't know why talking is so hard for some of us.. :-( My T is encouraging me to try to start small..maybe try talking about something easier, a movie, book, whatever...without setting so hard expectations, and just trying to feel safe and build trust...
I think sharing your post would help you and your T.
I think it is so sweet that she bought you flowers :-)wishing you the best of luck,
Frida.
Posted by Poet on February 15, 2005, at 19:50:21
In reply to My T bought me flowers....but I wouldn't take them, posted by shrinking violet on February 15, 2005, at 18:01:28
Hi SV,
I'm so sorry that your session was so painful. I wish I could give you the magic answer as to how to open up in therapy, but as you know, I am struggling to do the same.
I told my T to stop saying she cares about me. She said she'd agree not to say it out loud, but I couldn't stop her from thinking it.
I think that the flowers triggered the part of you that screams *Don't care about me. I don't deserve to be cared about.*
I think that her hurt look was saying *SV gets scared when I let her know how much I care about her. What can I do to make her more comfortable with me?*
I know that your time with your therapist is limited and I absolutely understand how you feel you're wasting that precious time. I feel that I have wasted much time and money on a project (myself) that is hopeless.
My T thinks that I am not hopeless and your T would not keep trying to reach out to you if she felt you were hopeless.
I like Frida's idea of reading your post to her. Or can you email her? Or read it to her on the phone? Maybe on the phone would be more comfortable than in person when you are sitting with her?
I wish so badly that you and I and everyone who has talker's block in therapy could just let it all out. My T tells me that keeping it in is harder, but I can't convince myself of that.
It's okay to babble mail me. I don't have computer access much these days, but I promise to check when I can.
Thank you for always caring about me. I care about you.
((((SV)))))
Poet
Posted by Susan47 on February 15, 2005, at 23:42:09
In reply to My T bought me flowers....but I wouldn't take them, posted by shrinking violet on February 15, 2005, at 18:01:28
Posted by judy1 on February 16, 2005, at 11:25:34
In reply to My T bought me flowers....but I wouldn't take them, posted by shrinking violet on February 15, 2005, at 18:01:28
you are so not alone here- everything you are going through is something many of us here have experienced. you are fortunate that you can write- it is also how I communicate with my pdoc or therp when I am too emotional to speak. I hope you give your therp your writings- they will serve as a way for her to help you (and I promise you that she has had other clients who communicate this way). Once you get into that routine of giving her your notes, I promise that you will start to feel more in control and be able to speak- it may take weeks or months but it WILL happen. Don't worry about HER feelings here, she understands that you are having a bad time and simply wants to help. She sounds very kind and I hope sooner than later you'll be abler to communicate. until then just give her the notes.
take care, judy
Posted by shrinking violet on February 16, 2005, at 12:42:01
In reply to Re: My T bought me flowers....but I wouldn't take them » shrinking violet, posted by frida on February 15, 2005, at 19:10:21
>> I haven't posted much here, I am sort of new, but I wanted to reach out to you and tell you that I've struggled with the same, I still do. and my T is very patient..but I feel really bad because I can't talk.
--Frida, welcome to Babble. And thank you for your response! I could identify with everything you wrote...I'm sorry you know how hard it is, too.
>>I can write hours and hours and feel urgency to go to my session and see my T, cry, let go, talk..but once I sit there, I freeze totally, I can't say anything about how I truly feel, I can't talk about my feelings, I can't go deeply into what I feel. The feeling afterwards is terribly painful. I walk out the door and sometimes I can't stop crying thinking that I missed another chance to let go and find relief and share, I do write to her, but of course it is not the same, though at least she has a way to find out what's in my heart.
--Again, wow, that's exactly what it's like. And I'm very much feeling that pain and regret today. I think I may write a bit for session on Friday....I guess it's better than nothing, but I feel like I should be able to talk to her by now.
>> I would encourage you to show her your post or write to her telling her how you felt, so the feelings don't stay inside of you.--I think I will try to write, thank you. I still just wish I could figure out a way to express what's going on, but sometimes I'm not even sure *what* it is I feel. I just know it hurts.
>> I would really encourage you to share your post with your T. She seems to truly care about you, it would bring you closer if she could know what's in your heart...--I may share parts of it. The thing is, I've given her so much writing up to this point that I think it's losing its effectiveness. I know if I SAID half of what I wrote it would get across to her a lot better, I think. But I just don't know how.
>> I don't know why talking is so hard for some of us.. :-( My T is encouraging me to try to start small..maybe try talking about something easier, a movie, book, whatever...without setting so hard expectations, and just trying to feel safe and build trust...
--She tries that; it works sometimes but most times I get in there and I don't want to talk at all about anything. And we're both feeling some time pressure, since I only have a few months left with her. I feel like I'm wasting time and I need to hurry up and accomplish something with her before I have to terminate.
>> I think it is so sweet that she bought you flowers :-)
--It is. But I couldn't even tell her that. I hope she's taking care of them. :-(
Thank you again for your reply.
SV
Posted by shrinking violet on February 16, 2005, at 12:51:05
In reply to Re: My T bought me flowers....but I wouldn't take » shrinking violet, posted by Poet on February 15, 2005, at 19:50:21
>> I told my T to stop saying she cares about me. She said she'd agree not to say it out loud, but I couldn't stop her from thinking it.
--Wow, we're too much alike! lol. I told my T the same thing a couple of months ago. She looked like I smacked her in the face, she looked stunned, then she paused for a second and said "Bull[expletive], I don't care what you say...I'm not supposed to tell a client I care for them after working with them for this long a time? That's ridiculous..." She said it kind of angry/hurt. So needless to say, she still says it. Secretly, I'm kind of glad. ;-)
>>I think that the flowers triggered the part of you that screams *Don't care about me. I don't deserve to be cared about.*--That's probably very true, maybe I'll include that theory in my writing that I might bring in on Friday. I feel like the flowers were very symbolic of our relationship, maybe, and my rejecting them says a lot about how I feel about myself right now, and how afraid I am of really letting us become too close (geez, now that we aren't now, I guess...). I feel like I need to really push her away because it's going to be so painful to leave her soon, and if I let myself get more close to her it'll be more painful, and I can't let that happen (although I'm not sure if that even makes sense. I doubt leaving her could be any *more* painful than it's going to be....).
>> I like Frida's idea of reading your post to her. Or can you email her? Or read it to her on the phone? Maybe on the phone would be more comfortable than in person when you are sitting with her?
I may write some, but I don't think I could show her the post as-is. I might email her a short note because I feel so badly about everything and it hurts so much right now (and I'm not really sure I have an appt on Friday, so I need to confirm)....but I'll try not to get into too much in email (difficult for me, because once I start writing it's difficult to stop) and then bring in the rest to session. I hope it works out.
>> I wish so badly that you and I and everyone who has talker's block in therapy could just let it all out. My T tells me that keeping it in is harder, but I can't convince myself of that.--Me too. And my T says similar things and she's probably right. And I *want* to, I'm just not sure how. I don't have the language for this "stuff," I really don't.
Thank you ((((Poet))))
SV
Posted by shrinking violet on February 16, 2005, at 12:51:35
In reply to (((Shrinkingviolet))) (nm) » shrinking violet, posted by Susan47 on February 15, 2005, at 23:42:09
Posted by shrinking violet on February 16, 2005, at 12:56:45
In reply to Re: My T bought me flowers....but I wouldn't take them » shrinking violet, posted by judy1 on February 16, 2005, at 11:25:34
>>you are fortunate that you can write- it is also how I communicate with my pdoc or therp when I am too emotional to speak. I hope you give your therp your writings- they will serve as a way for her to help you (and I promise you that she has had other clients who communicate this way).
--Thank you Judy. I'm going to try to bring some writing in to my next session, but I feel like I've given her too much writing already and I need to start saying stuff (she has about 4 folders full of pages I've written). Plus, I'm leery about putting too much in writing anymore (she works for the Uni where I'm a grad student, and because of my eating disorder I'm under the microscope there as it is, and they don't need any more "ammo" on me). And, no, unfortunately I'm the first and only client she's ever had who hasn't been able to talk to her. :-(
>>Once you get into that routine of giving her your notes, I promise that you will start to feel more in control and be able to speak- it may take weeks or months but it WILL happen.--Well, it's been 2 years and I'm just as stuck now as I was in the beginning. Apart from a handful of sessions where I have been more open, the majority of the time I sit there and hug the pillow and stare at everything in the room but her. And I don't have a lot of time left with her...because she's a Uni T I can't see her once I graduate, so I'm going to have to leave her in a few months. We both feel very pressured because of this, and I KNOW once I leave her I'm going to look back and regret that I've wasted so much time. But even knowing that, I still am not sure how to change it.
Thank you for your response. I'll have to keep relying on the writing for now, I guess, as it's probably better than nothing. I just hope my T and I can get through this and have some good sessions for us to look back on. :-(
Thank you,
SV
Posted by shrinking violet on February 16, 2005, at 12:57:29
In reply to Re: My T bought me flowers....but I wouldn't take them, posted by shrinking violet on February 16, 2005, at 12:56:45
Posted by Aphrodite on February 16, 2005, at 18:46:46
In reply to My T bought me flowers....but I wouldn't take them, posted by shrinking violet on February 15, 2005, at 18:01:28
I was very moved by your post. You sound so sensitive and sincere. Your T did such a lovely gesture, and I'm sure it triggered something in you about being able to be open and accepting of someone just wanting to give to you without expecting anything in return.
You said that you've written to her a lot. Do you ever read it aloud? That way you can take the paper with you so it won't be in your file. Perhaps that would be a good compromise for you. Do you think you perhaps hold back because you don't want to open up in a therapeutic relationship which you know has an end date? If so, maybe you could convey that to her, in writing if need be.
Hope you are feeling better soon, dear. (((SV)))
Posted by LG04 on February 17, 2005, at 2:05:24
In reply to Re: My T bought me flowers.... » Poet, posted by shrinking violet on February 16, 2005, at 12:51:05
Hi SV,
I think it would be very hard to open up and talk to your T knowing that you have to terminate in a few months. very hard or even impossible. you have known all along that this relationship has to be a temporary one b/c of your situation at the university. that it would end before you would feel ready. so it makes SO much sense that it would stop you from opening up and going deeper and building more trust and all that.i experienced the same thing with my T b/c i also knew i'd have to end prematurely. it was only after she promised me that she would still be here for me and we could talk on the phone that i was able to continue with her. otherwise i couldn't have said a word. it would have been so painful. yet also painful not to use the time since i felt close to her and believed i could trust her. so the dilemma you must feel inside must be excruciating. and so understandable. and also so difficult to accept a gift, b/c again she is showing her caring and you know that you have to leave. it all makes so much sense given the position you are in.
try not to base any future possibilities of therapy on this one. i think that if you were with a therapist that you knew you could see for as long as you want, years or til death do us part, that you would find it easier to talk.
my thoughts are with you,
LG04
Posted by judy1 on February 17, 2005, at 14:39:47
In reply to Re: My T bought me flowers....but I wouldn't take them, posted by shrinking violet on February 16, 2005, at 12:56:45
I'm sorry I didn't understand what's been going on with your therp- thanks for explaining it. ok, the grad thing?- I had an eating disorder also in grad school (well since I was 13) and all the treatment I got was completely confidential. are you saying that your medical records aren't confidential? that would be illegal. all my profs were completely willing to work with me if I needed extensions because of health issues, while they didn't know the details- they still readily supplied the time I needed. is this not happening where you are? so you have been stuck for 2 years- that's a long time. as many trust issues that I have (and it's a bunch) once I found the right therp I was able to open up. it seems like you haven't found the right therp- and I get that you don't have the financial means to look for one now (the tribulations of grad school). but I'm hoping that once you have a 'real' job with 'real' benefits, that you will get the opportunity to interview therps until you find one that you 'click' with. I went through DOZENS before that happened. I started getting a good feel by talking to them on the phone for 10 minutes so I didn't waste an hour by going to one. I hope the same thing happens to you, I guess I look at you moving on from this therp as a blessing- despite her kindness, she hasn't been able to open you up. sometimes that isn't a problem of skill, it can just be whether you are comfortable, and apparently you are not.
take care, judy
Posted by littleone on February 17, 2005, at 20:47:35
In reply to My T bought me flowers....but I wouldn't take them, posted by shrinking violet on February 15, 2005, at 18:01:28
Your post brought me to tears when I first read it. I know exactly how you feel. I know exactly how frustrating and upsetting it all feels.
I wish I had some answers for you, but I don't. I'm sorry. I agree to a point with what others say about it just taking time. That forming the attachment, the bond, slowly brings the walls down. But I don't think this necessarily happens eventually to everyone. Sometimes I think I'm hardwired this way. Other times I can see that I've just been conditioned this way, which means that maybe one day I'll be re-conditioned a better way.
Sometimes I'll read something that will really resonate with me. It'll usually be something along the lines of how it's all just about taking a risk. You risk a little bit now and when that proves to be safe, you risk a little more down the track and so on. And at these times I can see that it is all just about risking to trust the other person. Risking to let go.
But when I'm there in the middle of a session all frozen up like a popsicle, thoughts of taking a risk are nowhere to be found. It's not even like I'm too scared to take a risk. It just doesn't even occur to me. I'm on some sort of defensive autopilot.
> As soon as I get there, it's like I go into a dark room and lock the door and close the blinds, put a large "do not disturb" sign on the doorknob and then huddle in a corner where nothing can reach me. Maybe nothing ever will....?
I always feel like there's a big brick wall between me and my T and I'm on my side cowering under a blanket inside one of those cubby houses you build as a kid made out of blankets draped over chairs and furniture.
> And my T and I have so little time left together, only a few months, and here I am still squandering it away.I'm so sorry that you're losing your T. It must be awful. And I imagine that part of you uses knowing she's going as another escape hatch. Why bother trying to talk if you need to leave soon anyway? That sort of thinking encourages hopelessness and the downward spiral. I hope you're not getting on that rollercoaster.
> She said I wouldn't take something from someone who cares about me? I shook my head and bit my lip. Finally she said she understood, but she said it in a quiet, almost hurt way.
If I had to hazard a guess, I would say that she wasn't hurt by your inability to accept her flowers. She was probably more sad at how your past experiences have shaped you so that you feel unable to accept her gift. It *is* sad that we can't enjoy life in that way.
> I don't know what to do....I can't even convey it all in writing. It just hurts.
You wrote it out well here. Your T sounds sweet.
Posted by littleone on February 17, 2005, at 20:58:15
In reply to Re: My T bought me flowers.... » frida, posted by shrinking violet on February 16, 2005, at 12:42:01
> --I may share parts of it. The thing is, I've given her so much writing up to this point that I think it's losing its effectiveness. I know if I SAID half of what I wrote it would get across to her a lot better, I think. But I just don't know how.
I always feel like I'm missing out on so much by not talking. That just the act of telling someone your stories must be so much more therapeutic that writing out your stories. That it's the act of talking that makes therapy work and by not doing this part of it I'll never get better, no matter how clever and insightful my T is.
This is to all the non-talkers in babbleland. Do you ever read what you've written out loud to your T? I'd read about doing that here on babble and kind of brought it up with my T. But he was worried that by knowing I'd have to read the stuff out loud, I would really edit my writing and tone it down and leave out the major parts. I guess he thought it was more important to keep up the deeper communication than to risk it in an attempt to talk. Just wondering if others have tried it, did it work, did it limit what you wrote, etc.
Posted by Dinah on February 17, 2005, at 23:30:56
In reply to Writing instead of talking » shrinking violet, posted by littleone on February 17, 2005, at 20:58:15
I did it, it did work, and I didn't censor myself much, if at all.
It felt immensely different, and way more emotional, to read it aloud than to read it silently or even to write it.
I don't know if it would have been just as emotional to read it aloud if he weren't there. It would have been an interesting experiment.
Posted by LittleGirlLost on February 18, 2005, at 12:04:29
In reply to Writing instead of talking » shrinking violet, posted by littleone on February 17, 2005, at 20:58:15
> This is to all the non-talkers in babbleland. Do you ever read what you've written out loud to your T?
I've been following this thread, and figured it's time I chime in. I write for my T *much* more than I talk. When I'm there, I freeze, or forget, or am just afraid. So I've been writing... mainly after I leave and especially about those feelings that come up with leaving. She has never asked me to read anything to her. In fact, when I spoke to her on the phone this week, she told me to write again after we hung up. I said I didn't want to, but she said I don't even have to reread it! (lol although I still tend to reread everything.) But no, I've never had to read anything to her, and now she asks me to write things because she sees how difficult it is for me to talk.
LGL
Posted by judy1 on February 20, 2005, at 17:03:25
In reply to Writing instead of talking » shrinking violet, posted by littleone on February 17, 2005, at 20:58:15
I've gone through periods of non-talking, some of them fairly extensive. I have read things that I have written out loud and found it to be a very emotional yet freeing experience. I didn't censor myself at all- in fact it was quite the opposite. With my ex-pdoc I used to freeze up and then e-mail him as soon as I got home. It got to be where he expected it, and if he didn't hear from me he often e-mailed me to make sure I got home okay. It's definitely worth a try.
Best of luck, judy
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