![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 37. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on January 6, 2005, at 4:05:59
In reply to I think...., posted by Dinah on January 5, 2005, at 20:59:46
I'd never think of leaving him, of course.
He helped me immensely with my OCD with CBT. And not just anyone could have done that because I dislike CBT a lot. He had to spoonfeed it to me, with a lot of reframing, and a lot of validation.
And I don't *think* this is fallout from idealization. I don't think I ever idealized his therapeutic skills. I used to think he spouted pop-psych stuff and sounded like Stuart Smalley. He's quit doing that with me, but...
Well, he just doesn't seem that deep. When I'm dealing with day to day stuff, he's fine. He props me up and keeps me going. But if I'm working on deeper stuff, you guys come up with much better insight than he does. I often bring babble stuff to him.
Sometimes I just get frustrated with something like that dream. He just glossed over everything except that I had seen him at the post office and noticed he was a man. If it was just that once, but it's not. I suppose I could say that he forces me to come to my own conclusions, but...
So I tend to get frustrated with him when I'm trying to work on a deeper level.
He won't allow me to have more than one therapist. He's ok with an adjunct short term therapist to do something he doesn't do, with a limited scope and purpose. I haven't liked any of the adjunct therapists, though, and have never gotten very far with them.
He'd be ok with me seeing a family therapist or a EMDR therapist or a biofeedback therapist or a hypnotherapist or a sex therapist. But they'd have to draw lines first. He would quit seeing me if I started to see two therapists at once. He's firm on that. Says he doesn't work that way.
He'd also be angry with this thread. He thinks he's competent to treat me. He reminds me of the years he spent working with a psychiatrist who specialized in dissociative disorders.
I know he doesn't read this board, and won't see this thread, but it makes me a bit nervous even to discuss his shortcomings. Not that I don't know he has them.
Also, the state of the mental health community is incredibly poor around here. More so than many areas. If I lived in New York or California, I'd probably be able to find a well trained therapist should I ever decide to look for one, which I won't. Because he's not perfect (not by a long shot) but he's my mommy.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 6, 2005, at 5:15:02
In reply to Re: I think...., posted by Dinah on January 6, 2005, at 4:05:59
> He helped me immensely with my OCD with CBT. And not just anyone could have done that because I dislike CBT a lot. He had to spoonfeed it to me, with a lot of reframing, and a lot of validation.
I agree completely that 'not just anyone could have done that'. I disagree that he is the only person in the world who could have done that, though.
> Well, he just doesn't seem that deep. When I'm dealing with day to day stuff, he's fine. He props me up and keeps me going. But if I'm working on deeper stuff, you guys come up with much better insight than he does. I often bring babble stuff to him.There are more of us to offer loads of stuff for you to take whatever may resonate.
> He won't allow me to have more than one therapist. He's ok with an adjunct short term therapist to do something he doesn't do, with a limited scope and purpose. I haven't liked any of the adjunct therapists, though, and have never gotten very far with them.It is hard to find a good therapist. It can also take a bit of time to figure out if they are going to be good for you or not. Sometimes the ones that drive you a bit bananas turn out to be ok. Not the invalidating ones, though, or not for me at any rate.
Lots of therapists won't let their clients see another therapist at the same time. Something about it 'confusing' the client. One therapist saying one thing and another therapist saying another...
I personally think it has more to do with turf encroachment.
I think that if you told him that you would like to work on your dependency / attachment issues (with him) and that he wasn't really helping you progress with that and so you figured that someone else may be able to better help you there simply in virtue of being someone else (and not in virtue of being a better therapist or anything like that) - then you may be able to bring him around. If he realises that you will never choose someone else over him if it comes to that and he also realises that he is not in a position to help you with this issue then ethically he should allow you to see someone else to help you with that. It isn't beyond his level of expertise because his level of training or anything like that, it is just beyond his power to do anything because he has become the object of the problem. If he can't understand any of this, then I would be seriously worried about just who it is that is getting their needs met in that theraputic relationship. If he still insists, well could you go see someone else regardless (without his knowledge)? I have done that before...
> Also, the state of the mental health community is incredibly poor around here.Yes, it can be hard to find a good therapist. If you start working with someone else as well though (to kind of suss them out) and you seem to be getting on with them ok, well then that might be the time to broach the real issue. To tell that therapist the stuff you have been telling us. They may decide that it is ok for you to continue doing that and continue seeing them both at once.
Posted by partlycloudy on January 6, 2005, at 10:44:46
In reply to Re: I think...., posted by Dinah on January 6, 2005, at 4:05:59
As much as I adored my old therapist, it wasn't until I started seeing this new one that I realised how much fumbling in the dark I did over the last year. My old T had a lot of "I don't know" and "Gosh, that's too bad" answers for my searching questions. This new one is much more focused, it seems, and I have more hope that we'll actually get somewhere this year. Maybe it was the change I needed, but I all of a sudden have become more proactive (though not successfully so). Any direction is better than standing still, I guess.
Posted by fallsfall on January 6, 2005, at 12:34:24
In reply to Re: I think...., posted by Dinah on January 6, 2005, at 4:05:59
I think that it is good that you can see your therapists good points and his bad points.
I do agree with Daisy that this might not be the best time for you to make a change. But that doesn't mean that you can't consider what it might be like with a different therapist.
I like to think about my situation by thinking that I needed one kind of therapist at the beginning, but a different kind of therapist now (and who knows what I'll need in 5 years?).
One of the reasons I left my first therapist was that she wouldn't/couldn't go deeper with me. She did try, but it was clear that it wasn't something she was comfortable with - it didn't match her orientation.
You will, however, never find another therapist like your current one. Just like we are all unique, so are our therapists. But, then again, if you wanted a therapist who was exactly like your therapist, then you could just stay with him!
Certainly an interesting topic to think about.
Posted by Shortelise on January 6, 2005, at 13:14:23
In reply to I think...., posted by Dinah on January 5, 2005, at 20:59:46
Oh, no, I have never thought about this.
Now I have to.
I guess that's why I come here.
ShortE
Posted by Aphrodite on January 6, 2005, at 16:27:26
In reply to Re: I think...., posted by Dinah on January 6, 2005, at 4:05:59
>
> Sometimes I just get frustrated with something like that dream. He just glossed over everything except that I had seen him at the post office and noticed he was a man. If it was just that once, but it's not. I suppose I could say that he forces me to come to my own conclusions, but...Let me finish that for you: "but . . . probably not." You really have an objective take on your T's strengths and weaknesses.
>
> He won't allow me to have more than one therapist. He's ok with an adjunct short term therapist to do something he doesn't do, with a limited scope and purpose. I haven't liked any of the adjunct therapists, though, and have never gotten very far with them.
>
> He's firm on that. Says he doesn't work that way.Just from the reading here and another time you mentioned it, he sounds a little defensive. Am I reading that wrong? But I do understand that most Ts hold to this as well. My T was a little miffed when I went for a second opinion. I can see how it might pique their egos! However, getting another point of view was the best thing for my therapy, and even he admits that now.
>
> He'd also be angry with this thread. He thinks he's competent to treat me. He reminds me of the years he spent working with a psychiatrist who specialized in dissociative disorders.The pdoc specialized, not him. If I am recalling right, he also seemed a little burned out by it? But you are more than a patient on the dissociative spectrum. You have an intellect and depth that is quite rare, you know. Does he acknowledge that? I bet he knows, if he hasn't said so outright.
>
>Because he's not perfect (not by a long shot) but he's my mommy.
This counts for a lot and makes up for many of the shortcomings. I don't think it hurts to wonder. At least when you stay with him, you know it's because you've weighed the pros and cons. Sometimes, though, we want more than Mom. The unfortunate thing is that you are in a position not to gain valuable insight from other professionals because of his rule and your location. With real moms, you get to have all the other relationships you want and still have mom to come home to, so to speak.
Have you ever thought about what some cons might be to an in-depth, intellectual T? Maybe one could be constant head-spinning, a constant struggle with intensity. Mabye less emoting and bonding?
I think in any comfortable relationship we start to wonder and long for more or wonder how other people might be different. Maybe this is the therapeutic equivalent to the marital seven year itch?
Posted by Dinah on January 6, 2005, at 17:37:35
In reply to Re: I think.... » Dinah, posted by Aphrodite on January 6, 2005, at 16:27:26
Mind if I come back to it at another time?
I got another blow to the knees, and I don't know if I'll be able to stay standing. My whippet is functionally paralyzed below the neck. I've spent all my money and can't afford to have her hospitalized. The consensus is there's only one test that will help, it'll cost a thousand dollars, and it would only tell if she's dying.
So she's at home lying on her side, requiring fairly constant care, moving from side to side, feeding etc.
It's the straw that broke my back. Total meltdown. We're trying to keep me out of the hospital through daily visits with therapist, assuming husband is willing to pay for them. If not, and maybe even if so, I'll be checking into hospital. If it comes to that I'll make sure to let you know.
I just have this feeling that I have to do something really really bad in order to let people see that I can't do any more. People keep expecting things from me. I just think if I do something... well, that'd be triggering. Anyway, my therapist would prefer I go into the hospital instead. I'm not sure.
I am so tired.
Posted by Aphrodite on January 6, 2005, at 19:15:59
In reply to Re: I think I'll have to consider it a bit later, posted by Dinah on January 6, 2005, at 17:37:35
Please do whatever it takes to feel safe and better. I'm so sorry about the puppy.
I'll keep you in constant thought and prayer.
(((Dinah)))
Posted by TofuEmmy on January 6, 2005, at 20:57:58
In reply to Re: I think I'll have to consider it a bit later, posted by Dinah on January 6, 2005, at 17:37:35
If you decide on the hospital stay, it may turn out to be a good rest for you. You have been through SO much lately. Let someone else cook your meals and do your dishes. Bring books, and cozy slippers.
If you are in ANY danger of hurting yourself, you know you must do this for your son's sake - whether you wanna or not. Cuz Emmy says so. Sometimes I must put my foot down. :-)
Please take care Dinah. Hugs.
emmy
Posted by Dinah on January 6, 2005, at 21:47:15
In reply to Re: I think I'll have to consider it a bit later » Dinah, posted by TofuEmmy on January 6, 2005, at 20:57:58
I'm leaning towards the hospital right now, which is better than earlier today. But I don't know if I can stand the fuss involved.
The poor dog is going to have to go back to the vets tomorrow one way or another. I'm going to take my husband up on his offer to pay for her care. I just can't do this right now. She needs more than I can give.
I could try the once a day therapy, but it seems that that would just contribute to the problem - pretending I can keep doing everything when I really just can't. But I don't know if I can bear to admit that.
I'll sleep on it. I hope I'll sleep anyway. Not sleeping has been one of the problems.
Posted by gardenergirl on January 6, 2005, at 22:26:40
In reply to Thanks Emmy and Aphrodite, posted by Dinah on January 6, 2005, at 21:47:15
Dinah,
I hope you are sleeping peacefully and getting the rest you need right now. If not, I hope you are doing something to take care of yourself. If that means going to the hospital, then that's a good thing. I'll be thinking of you and sending out peaceful, soothing thoughts.Take care,
gg
Posted by Speaker on January 6, 2005, at 22:58:46
In reply to Re: Thanks Emmy and Aphrodite » Dinah, posted by gardenergirl on January 6, 2005, at 22:26:40
Posted by DissociativeJane on January 6, 2005, at 23:32:31
In reply to Thanks Emmy and Aphrodite, posted by Dinah on January 6, 2005, at 21:47:15
Dear Dinah,
I'm sorry you're feeling so bad. You have so much stress right now that I can imagine it must feel overwhelming.
How will going to the hospital help you? Do you want to be admitted? Do you think you need a medication adjustment to make you feel better?
BLESSINGS TO YOU
Posted by Dinah on January 7, 2005, at 4:07:42
In reply to Re: Thanks Emmy and Aphrodite » Dinah, posted by DissociativeJane on January 6, 2005, at 23:32:31
Posted by Dinah on January 7, 2005, at 4:14:39
In reply to Re: Thanks Emmy and Aphrodite » Dinah, posted by DissociativeJane on January 6, 2005, at 23:32:31
Those are good questions. I hate meds and I imagine they'll push them. I'm not a big one for group activities and the idea of sharing a bedroom and bath borders on terrifying. My emetophobia is already kicking up.
It's just that my other alternatives are ones that only I think are good ones. We're going to talk again this morning and this time I hope he has something more concrete to offer than "I'll help you, but no I don't know how yet."
Posted by mair on January 7, 2005, at 4:56:11
In reply to Re: Thanks Emmy and Aphrodite » DissociativeJane, posted by Dinah on January 7, 2005, at 4:14:39
Given the time of your post (even Pacific Time) it's clear you're not sleeping and given the time of mine (eastern standard), it's clear I'm not either.
You're obviously overwelmed and depleted, and exhausted to boot. I can't imagine how you're functioning. Just consider what you've had to deal with over the last few months.
Your son needs you, but he needs a healthier you and I think you've got to do whatever it takes to get there. If that means the hospital - go to the hospital.
My secretary's best friend was recently hospitalized after her husband left her. Everytime I've thought about the hospital, I've never been able to imagine how the typical short stay could make a difference, unless maybe you were trying to radically alter your meds. But the 4 days or so that this woman was in made a world of difference. Maybe there's great value in admitting that you can't do everything and allowing others to start taking care of you. A few years ago when my T was considering whether it my be a good alternative for me, I posted here about it, and one responder said just that - that just the acknowledgment on her part (and on the part of others maybe) that she needed help, made it easier for her to really start healing.
Don't feel you have to go to the extreme of doing something extreme to make others see what you're feeling. The proverbial cry for help suicidal attempt or SI action can go wrong and can be misinterpreted. Just do what you know you need to do to take care of yourself.
Hopefully your T can offer more concrete support.
In the meantime, I'm thinking about you too - alot.
Mair
Posted by DissociativeJane on January 7, 2005, at 9:19:36
In reply to Re: Thanks Emmy and Aphrodite » DissociativeJane, posted by Dinah on January 7, 2005, at 4:14:39
Dinah,
Instead of going to the hospital, why not treat yourself to a retreat of some sort maybe a healing "spa package" with an emphasis on healing?
I have never met you however, I sense that maybe you need an escape.....
I'm wondering if a mental health unit in a hospital would really be helpful for you, but I guess only you can answer this question.
Thoughtfully,
Jane
Posted by antigua on January 7, 2005, at 12:10:45
In reply to Hospital » Dinah, posted by DissociativeJane on January 7, 2005, at 9:19:36
You're a great person, Dinah, and are well loved here at Babble, so please do whatever you need to keep safe. Let go and let others take care of you. You have a great relationship w/your son that I know is very important to you.
antigua
Posted by Annierose on January 7, 2005, at 12:26:27
In reply to Re: Hospital, posted by antigua on January 7, 2005, at 12:10:45
Just wanted to let you know that I want you to feel better. Life sometimes just isn't fair. You have already suffered so much. I hope you can do what is best for you right now, whatever course that might be. Annierose
Posted by vwoolf on January 7, 2005, at 12:57:01
In reply to Re: Hospital, posted by Annierose on January 7, 2005, at 12:26:27
Dinah, warm fuzzy thoughts winging your way from Africa. Look after yourself - we all care.
Posted by Dinah on January 7, 2005, at 13:50:34
In reply to Re: Hospital, posted by vwoolf on January 7, 2005, at 12:57:01
We're leaning against hospitalization right now, though that could change with additional stressors being added.
He convinced me that though he thinks I'm stronger than I think I am, that he does think the stressors and demands right now are more than I can cope with and he's willing to work with me based on that assumption. Even though I won't do sensible things like admit defeat and ask for a leave of absence. Somehow death seems better. I'm not sure why that is.
He bullied me into calling my pdoc and together they bullied me into starting an antidepressant though I don't feel depressed. They both say desperate can be depressed. Oh joy, withdrawal to look forward to. And I'm to start taking Risperdal daily, which is all *I* think I need.
He gave me the words to say if my office calls and yells when they find out I've been incapable of reasonable work for some time now. He swears people cut you slack when you've had a death in the family. I'm not sure I believe it.
I am really a bit skeptical because my presentation of my requests for help or admissions of distress are too restrained for most people to take seriously. I'm so glad he does take it seriously. He said I don't need to physically disable myself for him to be able to see I'm disabled functionally right now. I'm not sure why that makes me feel less frantic about needing to hurt myself, but it does.
Sadly, I had to put my whippet to sleep. I got a second opinion today and he agreed with me. A very small chance of recovery wasn't worth the distress she was suffering.
So the risperdal's hit my system already and i'm feeling a bit better. especially since i haven't heard any screaming and the weekend is coming. no chance of anyone yelling from work.
Cross your fingers for me. Maybe I'll be able to stay out of the hospital. And with a double finger cross, maybe I'll find a way to lighten my load that won't bring personal disgrace on me.
He's pretty good with me in a crisis, I have to say. Though he also drives me nuts by insisting I take responsibility.
Thanks for all the good thoughts. I still need them.
Posted by judy1 on January 7, 2005, at 14:16:00
In reply to He does have his strengths, posted by Dinah on January 7, 2005, at 13:50:34
I'm very, very sorry for your loss. When I put my malamute to sleep recently I got to hold him and it was amazingly peaceful- just knowing he doesn't suffer anymore is comforting to me and I hope you feel the same about your dog now. Stressors can be horrible, and they always seem to come in groups but you sound very strong right now and I hope with the support of your therp/spouse/ friends you'll be able to get through all of this.
you're in my prayers- judy
Posted by annierose on January 7, 2005, at 14:44:31
In reply to He does have his strengths, posted by Dinah on January 7, 2005, at 13:50:34
I just am speechless. So sorry to hear about your whippet. How is your little boy doing too?
I'm glad your T is trying to be a leg on your stool for you right now. He cares for you so very much. Sending soothing thoughts your way ...
(and hugs, but I'm not the touchy/feely type)
Annierose
Posted by DissociativeJane on January 7, 2005, at 15:02:58
In reply to He does have his strengths, posted by Dinah on January 7, 2005, at 13:50:34
Dinah,
you are in my thoughts. It sounds like your therapist really has your best interest at hand. I'm so sorry for your loss.
Posted by partlycloudy on January 7, 2005, at 15:20:23
In reply to He does have his strengths, posted by Dinah on January 7, 2005, at 13:50:34
Dinah, please don't hesitate about taking a leave of absence to help yourself stay safe and recover. No one has to know anything about why it's necessary - your doctor's recommendation is enough to initiate a Family Medical Leave. I did not realize how very desperate I was until I'd been off work for about a week. Not having to show up at work, meet deadlines and put that brave face on was an enormous relief. I cannot stress enough how restorative just doing that was for me.
Best wishes and I'll be checking the boards, too!
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.