![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Aphrodite on January 4, 2005, at 6:56:06
For the first time ever, I sat in his room today and felt light years away. We've had a trust rupture gone unrepaired, and I have returned to competent-adult-not-needing-therapy mode. He knows this, and he tried all of his usual methods of reaching my emotional side and the pain, but none of it worked. I had the urge to fake it, but I didn't. I sat silently most of the time, giving one word answers. It was like I didn't even know him. Sometimes when he was speaking so kindly and gently, I didn't hear him -- I was thinking about phone calls I needed to return, etc.
The complete disconnect from him was one of the scariest things I've ever experienced because so much is wrong right now and the suicidal demons have returned. And to not feel like I even know him leaves me with precious little support.
It's a busy time for me, so I told him I wouldn't be back for a week and a half. He tried to explain how I would only ice over further, but I can't neglect my reponsibilities in the "real world" either.
He called later after the session, and I started to open up, but inside I was screaming to myself to shut up, and so I did and closed down. He pleaded by saying if I came again this week, he had some things he had written for me that would help in moments of crisis when I was too closed to reach out. He is gently persistent, but again, it was like a stranger on the phone.
I'm really scared that too much has happened and he's completely gone.
Posted by fallsfall on January 4, 2005, at 7:36:19
In reply to Absolutely disconnected, posted by Aphrodite on January 4, 2005, at 6:56:06
You don't *want* him to be gone. So fight to stay with him.
Don't take the time off. Force yourself to go and sit even if you can't talk. He wants to connect with you and you want to connect with him. Together you can make it happen. It won't be easy. But you both want the same thing. Keep trying.
Posted by Dinah on January 4, 2005, at 7:44:34
In reply to Absolutely disconnected, posted by Aphrodite on January 4, 2005, at 6:56:06
I've had many such moments, even now. I'm even experiencing one right now, to a lesser extent than you.
I've found that it passes; once an attachment has been made it's hard to break. It can feel broken for a while. But true emotional divorce is a lengthy process.
If I were you, I'd continue to go at the regularly scheduled intervals. Actually, I'd probably call to see him ASAP. :) You'll be better doing your work when you aren't distracted by what's going on. If you're really busy right now, you can ask him to step back from the hard stuff and work on bonding stuff.
Is he perhaps pursuing you too hard? My therapist utterly annoys me by accepting my decisions, even if he states disapproval of them. Still, it somehow helps me by not giving me anything to exert equal and opposite reaction to.
Here's something that sometimes used to work for me. I'd sit very very quietly and concentrate on the feelings in my stomach. (My feelings reside in my stomach. - smile) I'd focus deeper and deeper. When I was feeling disconnect, it was usually at the rational level. At the emotional level, I'd usually be able to detect either attachment or anger. And anger meant there was something that needed to be hashed out in therapy.
What do you feel on a deeper level? Is it possible that you feel disconnected from yourself as much or more as from your therapist?
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 4, 2005, at 18:35:14
In reply to Absolutely disconnected, posted by Aphrodite on January 4, 2005, at 6:56:06
Oh sweetie he is not really gone...look at how far he went to try to reach you again...the calls the list..PLEASE GO and get the list and you have our support as well as his..once you let even a little of him IN like you started too at that call... that *scary feeling will go away*.. YOU ARE a part of the real world so you owe YOURSELF that appt and time
HUGS AND BE SAFE
Posted by Aphrodite on January 4, 2005, at 19:31:53
In reply to Re: Absolutely disconnected » Aphrodite, posted by fallsfall on January 4, 2005, at 7:36:19
> You don't *want* him to be gone. So fight to stay with him.
>
This is so true. Unfortunately, fighting requires energy, and all my energy is going to staying alive and appearing normal to those who count on me. So my struggle with him has been relegated for now.My life is nothing but one catch-22 after another.
Posted by Aphrodite on January 4, 2005, at 19:33:58
In reply to Re: Absolutely disconnected » Aphrodite, posted by Dinah on January 4, 2005, at 7:44:34
>
> What do you feel on a deeper level? Is it possible that you feel disconnected from yourself as much or more as from your therapist?Absolutely. I am disconnected from my emotions, walking around like a robot just doing what has to be done to get through this minute, then the next . . . But he's always been magically able to snap me back into my feelings. It's scary that he can't right now.
Posted by Aphrodite on January 4, 2005, at 19:35:59
In reply to Absolutely disconnected, posted by Aphrodite on January 4, 2005, at 6:56:06
Posted by Aphrodite on January 4, 2005, at 19:37:27
In reply to Re: Absolutely disconnected » Aphrodite, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 4, 2005, at 18:35:14
Thank you so much -- your post is so very kind. I guess he knows my curiosity gets the better of me and that I will want to read the list. Maybe he hasn't run out of his bag of tricks after all:)
Posted by Aphrodite on January 4, 2005, at 19:47:34
In reply to Absolutely disconnected, posted by Aphrodite on January 4, 2005, at 6:56:06
He called again tonight to ask if I was "really, really sure" I wasn't coming. He wanted to let me know he strongly disagreed with my decision not to come in and share what had ruptured and hurt little Aphrodite. I told him that it was childish, and that I only need time and things would heal. He was quiet for a long time and said that when I shift back into adult mode it's always very powerful and throws off his footing. I think I always make a good case about living my life here and now even if it's flawed. He said, though, that the things that hurt, even if they felt "childish" were probably at the root of all my pain. "What do you fear about my reaction?" That was a question that threw me. It dawned on me that fear was at the root of my withdrawal. I told him that I feared his anger and feared being dependent on him and needed to prove otherwise. He seemed surprised about the anger but for the fear of being dependent, his reaction seemed, "Yeah, yeah, here we go again."
I am too busy to do hard therapy work right now, but I did agree to let him call to check in. He said, "Sorry, but I must ride roughshod over the rational part of you." He said he didn't want the parts of me that needed him to completely fade away.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 4, 2005, at 19:59:43
In reply to Re: Absolutely disconnected » Fallen4MyT, posted by Aphrodite on January 4, 2005, at 19:37:27
Lol well, ya know I wanna know whats on that list too so when are you going to tell us???? :)
> Thank you so much -- your post is so very kind. I guess he knows my curiosity gets the better of me and that I will want to read the list. Maybe he hasn't run out of his bag of tricks after all:)
Posted by Daisym on January 4, 2005, at 20:02:41
In reply to Re: Absolutely disconnected » Aphrodite, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 4, 2005, at 18:35:14
>>>>For the first time ever, I sat in his room today and felt light years away. We've had a trust rupture gone unrepaired, and I have returned to competent-adult-not-needing-therapy mode. He knows this, and he tried all of his usual methods of reaching my emotional side and the pain, but none of it worked. I had the urge to fake it, but I didn't. I sat silently most of the time, giving one word answers. It was like I didn't even know him. Sometimes when he was speaking so kindly and gently, I didn't hear him -- I was thinking about phone calls I needed to return, etc.
<<<<<I noticed you said "his" room, not "my appointment." I'm struck by this. I think your adult side truly believes you don't need therapy, except maybe as an intellectual exercise. But I think you have to give this side space too, honor the protectiveness that served a purpose and still does in some situations. I'm glad you didn't fake it. It doesn't do either of you any good to pretend. Did you tell him you were dissociating? I tell my therapist now, "I'm going away or the room is spinning" because he will then concentrate on helping me come back or we will try to figure out what the trigger was. In your case, I'm guessing kindness was a prelude to your abuse so this just makes your protective side stronger. Not that I want him to be mean to you! But when you are in this mode, perhaps a different style would work better. My therapist has asked, "Are you reading or researching anything?" and then gets sneaky and asks, "how does that feel to little daisy, to have that information?" Of course, sometimes, like yesterday, I'll call him on it, "no fair, using that tactic" if I want to keep the "kids" quiet.
>>>The complete disconnect from him was one of the scariest things I've ever experienced because so much is wrong right now and the suicidal demons have returned. And to not feel like I even know him leaves me with precious little support.
<<<<I know you don't want to hear this, but being afraid to be disconnected and noticing how awful it feels is a good sign. It means you ARE attached at some level and you are aware that there is a hole when things get stretched. Even if it is intellectual awareness. I heard it described here once as putting on your seatbelt for the drive to the bridge that you intend to jump off. Some part of you is keeping you safe. The part that knows you need him.
>>>>It's a busy time for me, so I told him I wouldn't be back for a week and a half. He tried to explain how I would only ice over further, but I can't neglect my responsibilities in the "real world" either.
<<<<Again, you might need to honor your need for a break. You can journal and write here. If you can't go because you don't have the time, or have to be away completely, this works well. If you are electing to not go because you get ripped up and can't function, you could, as Dinah suggested, ask for supportive sessions, perhaps shorter ones. BELIEVE ME, this is the hardest thing I struggle with. I look at my responsibilities and think, I can't get everything done if I feel this bad. Repeat after my therapist, "it is OK to ask for support and not push yourself every session."
>>>>He called later after the session, and I started to open up, but inside I was screaming to myself to shut up, and so I did and closed down. He pleaded by saying if I came again this week, he had some things he had written for me that would help in moments of crisis when I was too closed to reach out. He is gently persistent, but again, it was like a stranger on the phone.
<<<<< I'm over stepping here, but it seems to me that the crisis is about your connection to him and because you feel alone, the suicidal demons are back. Going and spending the time to reconnect is probably a lot more valuable than a list you take away. He could mail it, if that was the case. Remember that strangers only remain this way until we spend a little time with them. Whatever side of you shows up in therapy might need to get reacquainted with him. Allow for this. Keep it basic. Ask a few questions and let him relate to you as you are at the moment -- in adult mode. I like Dinah's suggestion of talking about books, etc. Talk about what is important to you in the here and now also. Tell him about your son, your work, your favorite song. These "minor" conversations have an amazing ability to lead to more powerful things.
>>>>I'm really scared that too much has happened and he's completely gone.
<<<<((((Aphrodite))) He's not gone. You've just moved away. It is part of the trust dance. I'm on about my millionth time of pulling away. It feels horrible but the difference for me this time is that even though I'm in it, I know it is possible to come out of it. (Admittedly, I'm not writing this at 2am, when everything is different.) Sometimes it just takes time and forcing yourself to go back that makes the difference. Hang in there. It will get better.
Posted by Dinah on January 4, 2005, at 21:13:23
In reply to my shift, posted by Aphrodite on January 4, 2005, at 19:47:34
I understand being too busy to delve deeply. But therapy doesn't have to be distressing every time. My therapist does a lot of propping of my defense mechanisms when I've got work deadlines. Keeps me up and running when I might crash otherwise. Can the two of you work on developing this sort of therapy mode when you need it?
Or taking a break is fine too, if it's ok with all of you. I often find it's way more trouble than it's worth, but then my emotional side is a real emotional blackmailer/terrorist.
(I'm a bit peeved right now because I'm going for a *third* session this week tomorrow. Dratted emotional self.)
I have to say that you should really appreciate that your therapist would do this. Mine wouldn't.
Posted by fallsfall on January 5, 2005, at 12:52:34
In reply to Re: Absolutely disconnected, posted by Aphrodite on January 4, 2005, at 19:31:53
I gave up appearing normal a long time ago. I don't necessarily recommend my route, though.
I'm interested, why is "appearing normal to those who depend on you" more important than getting the help you need to *be* normal?
Posted by daisym on January 5, 2005, at 16:15:05
In reply to Re: Absolutely disconnected » Aphrodite, posted by fallsfall on January 5, 2005, at 12:52:34
Because, appearing normal, keeping those emotional displays at bay was expected from "good girls." At least in my case I was told over and over again, "tears don't solve anything! Don't whine or complain. Take action to change or fix it." To do otherwise meant you were wallowing. And wallowing was NOT, NOT allowed. EVER.
And honestly, because I have played this role so long, when I'm falling apart, most of my friends can't handle it if I even hint at something not being up to my usual standards. They say things like, "you need to relax and take a bath. Oh, and when you feel better, could you..."
Posted by Joslynn on January 5, 2005, at 19:00:33
In reply to Absolutely disconnected, posted by Aphrodite on January 4, 2005, at 6:56:06
I am just amazed that your T had the time, compassion and insight to call you after the disconnected session. Neither my T nor my pdoc ever call me after what I perceive as a rough session. They only call me if I call them first.
Sounds like this T is pretty special.
Posted by Aphrodite on January 5, 2005, at 19:24:47
In reply to Re: Absolutely disconnected » Aphrodite, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 4, 2005, at 19:59:43
I get it tomorrow, so I'll share it then. My curiosity always gets the better of me!
Posted by Aphrodite on January 5, 2005, at 19:31:44
In reply to Re: Absolutely disconnected - long reply, posted by Daisym on January 4, 2005, at 20:02:41
>
> <<<<<I noticed you said "his" room, not "my appointment." I'm struck by this.I've picked that up from him. He always says, "When you were in my room the other day . . ." "I could feel your pain when you were sitting across from me in my room . . ." I like it; it's nice.
>>I'm guessing kindness was a prelude to your abuse so this just makes your protective side stronger.This is very true for a good part of my abuse. I had some overt abuse when I was young, but the csa was always after I was lulled into a false sense of security, "seduced" by the kindnesses. I craved people being nice to me and would cherish it even from abusers. You may be on to something here . . .
>
> <<<<((((Aphrodite))) He's not gone. You've just moved away. It is part of the trust dance.Thanks for the hug! It is true that I've moved away. He left messages for me again today, and I found myself listening to them repeatedly, so I must still have connection or at least the need/desire for it. I appreciate all of your insightful thoughts, as always.
Posted by Aphrodite on January 5, 2005, at 19:35:11
In reply to Re: my shift » Aphrodite, posted by Dinah on January 4, 2005, at 21:13:23
> (I'm a bit peeved right now because I'm going for a *third* session this week tomorrow. Dratted emotional self.)No, don't be mad at that side of you. Considering the time you've had as of late, you need and deserve the extra support.
>
> I have to say that you should really appreciate that your therapist would do this. Mine wouldn't.I appreciate him more than he knows, though I always try to tell him. I even wrote a letter at Christmas cataloging all of his many "above and beyond" acts. He's a rarity.
Posted by Aphrodite on January 5, 2005, at 19:38:53
In reply to Re: Absolutely disconnected » Aphrodite, posted by fallsfall on January 5, 2005, at 12:52:34
>
> I'm interested, why is "appearing normal to those who depend on you" more important than getting the help you need to *be* normal?I guess I don't stand much chance of ever being "normal," but I do have the ability to fake it. I've been working at that a long time;)
And since I can *act* normal, people need and depend on me, so I get my self-esteem fed that way.
Yeah, yeah, it's sick;)
Posted by Aphrodite on January 5, 2005, at 19:40:23
In reply to Re: Absolutely disconnected, posted by Joslynn on January 5, 2005, at 19:00:33
>
> Sounds like this T is pretty special.He is -- but I worry that he works too hard. Your T and pdoc probably have it right!
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 5, 2005, at 20:10:54
In reply to Re: Absolutely disconnected » Fallen4MyT, posted by Aphrodite on January 5, 2005, at 19:24:47
Way cool......I may get some help from it too :) Ah I am a curious kinda gal too
> I get it tomorrow, so I'll share it then. My curiosity always gets the better of me!
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.