![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by shrinking violet on November 26, 2004, at 19:21:04
Hi everyone,I'm sorry for posting as I haven't been reading or responding much lately. I'm going to try to do so after I submit this.
I have a huge problem. To sum it up for anyone who might want to tackle the question without reading whatever verbosity I end up writing afterward: How do you know whether therapy itself is hurtful / damaging, or whether you are having a hard time in general and may just need more support?
I started back with my therapist two weeks ago after quitting on her (again). I decided that this time I would really try to talk to her and do whatever 'work' I need to do to try to start feeling better. During the six weeks or so I didn't see her, I was anxious and depressed, as usual, but I didn't feel particularly overwhelmed. I am not yet on an anti-depressant; I was supposed to be, but let's just say I'm not good at taking meds and I didn't think it was helping much anyway and the psych I was seeing was something of a joke. I have an appt with a new psych in a couple of weeks, so hopefully it will be better and I can find some relief.
For the past couple of weeks though, I've gone downhill pretty fast. Not that I haven't felt this way before, because I have, but I'm not sure what triggered it this time. I'm very depressed, hopeless, vaguely suicidal (think about it a lot and wish I could do it, but know I probably won't). I'm finding it hard to concentrate on assignments. I'm a bundle of nerves all the time (the new apartment doesn't help either), and I'm constantly afraid of being attacked and violated (again, not a new feeling but one that has gotten more intense since I moved). I also have an eating disorder and I'm not eating much at all right now, which probably is compounding a lot of these problems. Also, I saw the doc earlier this week and she said it's gotten to the point now where I have to sign a contract and comply with what it says (to keep all appointments with her, my T, my nutritionist and any other doc she suggests, as well as to not let my BMI fall below where it is now, etc) or else I may be thrown out of school. So, that didn't help matters either.
Therapy itself has always been difficult for me because I find it SO hard to open up and talk. First, I'm not sure what it is I'm supposed to talk about. Second, I'm so afraid of it I won't go near any of it. I can't get close to any emotion when I'm there. I can't even manage to say "I'm scared..." or anything remotely like that. So, it's been hard, to say the least. I want to change that, though. I am trying a lot harder to just talk to my T and the past couple of sessions have been better in that regard, although I'm still not getting close to any of my issues/emotions/etc (I wish I knew what it is I was supposed to say. Is there a "how to do therapy" tape or something I could watch?? lol).
So lately this has all come to a head. I feel HORRIBLE between sessions. I feel like I'm falling. I feel like I need my T. I know some of it is probably due to my relationship with her, etc and just the need most of us seem to have to connect with our T's in-between sessions. But I also think it might be more than that.
Anyway, I felt so horrible yesterday that I sent an email to the Samaritans. I spilled out everything I couldn't say to my T: about how horrible everything is, about how I feel about her, about how I think I need more support right now because an hour a week doesn't seem to be cutting it. I ended up sending a copy to my T as well. I didn't think she was working today b/c it's the day after the holiday, but apparently she had to go in for something and she read my email. She called me this morning and left a message. I emailed her back because she asked me to and I ensured her I was safe for the weekend. She then called me earlier this afternoon and she said that she is going to call me periodically all weekend to check in with me. I just hung up with
her a few minutes ago, in fact. At first I thought maybe she was
finally understanding that I might need more support/time from her and that
this (her offering to call me) was the first step in that direction. But I
just spoke with her and, I don't know, it seems that from my email she
thinks that I'm saying that therapy is too hard for me and that I can't
handle it. I told her that isn't what I meant. Then she said that she isn't
sure. She said it seems like I've "attached myself" too much to the
relationship and I'm not willing to do the work. I AM willing to work, it's
just hard. And I can't believe she said that; she's always tried overly hard to get me to belive that she cares about me, and that our relationship is special and part of the work. But then it seems like whenever I actually acknowledge the relationship she tries to distance from it.Some people can go into therapy and blab about nothing for
an hour and leave feeling ok. Some of us have more deep stuff to work with
and let out, and it's harder, but that doesn't mean it's damaging. Honestly,
I think she's so used to working with undergraduates who go in and gripe
about their classes and boyfriends, or an occasional eating disorder.....ONE
specific problem they need help with. Then I go in, who has tons of issues
and who hasn't tried to talk about them in my whole life, and I'm not sure
my T knows how to handle me. I'm not saying she isn't a good T, but I just
wonder if she's in over her head with me. But now it's too late because I
already have this therapeutic thing with her and I don't want to start over
with someone else. I think I just need to feel more safe and supported and
that I might just need an extra session or more contact during the week,
that's all, but I can't ask for that specifically (not sure why, I'm just
afraid to say it) so I talk in circles and she reads emails like the one I
sent and she reads more into it than what I mean. She always seems to
think I'm saying that therapy is too hard or hurtful when I never said that.
But then I'm wondering if maybe she's right? But at the same time I know I
need therapy and can't keep running from this stuff because now it's coming
out sideways. I mean, medicine tastes yucky but it's still supposed to help if you take it regularly and get past the taste and swallow it. The same with therapy, maybe.So I dont know what to do. I dont feel like she really heard
me at all, and now I'm afraid she's going to conclude that I'm being hurt by
this and she's going to quit or pawn me off on someone else. I dont know
what to do. I can't let her just cut me lose....I dont know what I'd do
then. I want to be VERY clear with her tomorrow when she calls me about what I need and don't ned, about what I mean and don't mean, and about how I think her theory that I'm being hurt by this is wrong. But first I need to figure out whether she might be right and the therapy itself really is damaging and making everything worse, or whether I might just need more support for a while until I maybe get on an a/d and get past this rough spot? Is there a way to figure out which one it is???Any help would be very much appreciated. And I apologize for the length of this post, and any confusion I may have caused (I tend to write in circles when I'm confused sometimes)
Thanks,
SV
Posted by QuietHeart on November 26, 2004, at 22:13:35
In reply to Dilemma....PLEASE help, posted by shrinking violet on November 26, 2004, at 19:21:04
Dear SV
It seems your core concern is whether therapy is really helpig you and whether it CAN indeed help you. This is a complex question and it's absolutely ok to be confused about it. Maybe you can start with trusting yourself and your instincts more. Sit down and make a list (even if it's a free-associating list) of goals you have for your own self development, and problems you have that you feel need fixing. They can be big or small, the important thing is that they matter to you. next, when u see your T, start by outlining some of the issues you seem to work on. everything eventualy converges, but this will make u feel more in control. generally voicing these concerns to your T could also help. hang in there, we're here for you!
Posted by Skittles on November 27, 2004, at 0:11:06
In reply to Dilemma....PLEASE help, posted by shrinking violet on November 26, 2004, at 19:21:04
SV,
I am so sorry your T said what she did. I would be crushed if mine said that. In my opinion, when you are dealing with difficult issues, you MUST be invested in the relationship before you can ever really face those issues. Problem is, I'm not sure what my T thinks about that and I'm afraid to ask her because I know if I don't get the right answer, I'll have to quit seeing her.
As far as whether it's the therapy itself that is harmful.... I have no definitive answers but only my personal experience to share. I think that when we are in therapy we are continually working through our issues by talking about them (that's how we begin to learn to put them to rest) and that stirs up pain and emotion inside us. When we aren't in therapy, we don't feel that pain because we aren't continually dredging it up. For me, that doesn't mean that I've actually healed from it, but that I'm numbing my emotions again. That's how I've coped all my life and in the long run it isn't that productive.
So maybe that's why you were feeling better - because you weren't talking about all the crud on a regular basis. And now you are stirring up those emotions again. As far as twice weekly appointments, I requested them a few weeks ago and it hasn't been easy. On the one hand I am comforted knowing I will see my T more often, but on the other, my emotions are pretty much raw all the time. I hope over time that will improve though. I decided that I really needed this because my T might get inside a little during a session but I had a whole week to strengthen that wall and I was getting more and more distant. With more sessions, she's better able to take down the wall more quickly than I can build it back up.
I hope this was helpful and not too much about me. It's just that I am all I have to draw from!
Skittles
Posted by vwoolf on November 27, 2004, at 6:39:21
In reply to Dilemma....PLEASE help, posted by shrinking violet on November 26, 2004, at 19:21:04
Gosh, I could have written this a few months ago. It feels amazing now that I can actually understand what is going on with you, at least I think so, because I went through exactly the same things. I also wrote to the Samaritans and then Babble on several occasions when I felt too threatened to talk to my T directly. But then I showed her the emails
SV, first of all, congratulations for having the courage to send that email to your T. It must have been very difficult and I am sure you’ve regretted it already, but it took a huge leap of faith to actually trust her enough to let her know what is going on. You’ve probably never trusted anyone enough to do that before. And now you’re expecting her to reject you. Because probably you’ve been rejected before, and you think she will repeat the pattern. At least that is what happened to me. My mother always rejected me when I was needy, and told me to stop being such a baby, to leave her in peace. And I expect everyone else to do the same, especially my T who sees just how needy I am.
But your T doesn’t seem to be rejecting you at all. She is actually telling you that she will keep calling all weekend to make sure you’re ok. She sounds as if she really cares a lot, and wants to stay close to you, because she understands how awful this must be for you. She sounds great, and really supportive. I know it is difficult for you to believe that, but she has read all the things you said to the Samaritans and she is not horrified. She doesn’t think you’re bad, or too needy or anything else. She can see your pain and wants to help. She wants to know if you need anything from her. Trust her. Let her mother you.
I know you are not hearing this too well - you are probably misunderstanding what she is trying to say when she calls. You are determined to hear rejection, and phone calls can be difficult because you can’t see the person and their concern. It will probably be really difficult to believe that she can care until you see her again at your next session, and only then, when she doesn’t throw you out, will you begin to believe that maybe this relationship is different. If she can see you more often, and you can afford to see her, do increase your sessions. I also find that I need more times a week to keep trusting, and although I feel quite dependent, I know I need the contact right now - it just feels right in some very small, hurt place, and I’ve decided to stop fighting that feeling.
I think SV that this is one of those really important points of therapy, but it takes a lot of courage to make changes. You’ve shown that you have the courage. It’s a huge first step, but you’ve already taken it. It stays hard for a long time - I’m several months further down the line and I’m still struggling - but you may begin to feel as if you are achieving something from here on. At least, from my perspective it looks as if you are. As if I am.
Take care over the next while. Ask your T to repeat herself if you feel she is saying anything that you feel is hurtful - you’ll see that it is just your expectation of being hurt. I’m sure she isn’t doing anything to push you away. But keep checking with her. I ask my T to say some things over and over until I am hearing what she really is saying, rather that what I expect her to say. Let yourself be soothed Be gentle to yourself.
A big hug.
VW
Posted by shrinking violet on November 27, 2004, at 20:35:50
In reply to Re: Dilemma....PLEASE help, posted by QuietHeart on November 26, 2004, at 22:13:35
Hi Quiet Heart; thank you for your response.
Actually, when I started again with my T a couple of weeks ago I brought in a list of reasons why I was there and some specific things I wanted to work on. But for some reason I've been "unraveling" emotionally lately and I feel like the things in the list are the least of my concerns right now. I'm not really sure what is going on with me, but at first I thought to myself that if it were the therapy making me feel this badly, then I should be able to pick out some specific issues or things that made me feel this way, and I can't. Actually, my T and I never really get to discuss anything "deep" in-depth; the hour goes by too fast and I am hesitant to bring up anything really deep or hurtful, so the past couple of sessions we've talked about a few general topics but nothing that should have caused me to have this kind of a meltdown this soon. I really just think it's a convergence of a lot of changes going on for me right now, coupled with a lot of past hurts that haven't been worked through, as well as some current pressing issues like an eating disorder, etc. I've been too good at pushing everything down...well, now I think the pressure is starting to build, like in a volcano, and maybe it's all starting to erupt. I wanted to try to address this with my T when she called today, but, let's just say I had a really bad day and by the time she called I was too much of a mess and too exhausted from crying to feel like talking much. I'll see what happens the next time I speak to her or see her.
Thanks for your input, I appreciate it. Take care.
SV
>> It seems your core concern is whether therapy is really helpig you and whether it CAN indeed help you. This is a complex question and it's absolutely ok to be confused about it. Maybe you can start with trusting yourself and your instincts more. Sit down and make a list (even if it's a free-associating list) of goals you have for your own self development, and problems you have that you feel need fixing. They can be big or small, the important thing is that they matter to you. next, when u see your T, start by outlining some of the issues you seem to work on. everything eventualy converges, but this will make u feel more in control. generally voicing these concerns to your T could also help. hang in there, we're here for you!
Posted by shrinking violet on November 27, 2004, at 20:50:05
In reply to Re: Dilemma....PLEASE help » shrinking violet, posted by Skittles on November 27, 2004, at 0:11:06
>> I am so sorry your T said what she did. I would be crushed if mine said that. In my opinion, when you are dealing with difficult issues, you MUST be invested in the relationship before you can ever really face those issues.
--It's weird, because my T has said stressed that our relationship is important and part of the work, etc. But, I don't know, it's as if she pushes our relationship and her caring on me when I resist it, but then when I finally try to acknowledge it and maybe say I feel something for her, she seems to take it away or act differently. And it does hurt, what she said about my being "too attached" or however she put it. I'm going to bring this up with her because I'm not sure whether she is aware that she seems to go back and forth, but I need to point it out to her and figure out what it is she wants from me.
>>Problem is, I'm not sure what my T thinks about that and I'm afraid to ask her because I know if I don't get the right answer, I'll have to quit seeing her.--I understand, it's hard. Could you maybe bring it up in general, and ask her generally what her thoughts are on the topic, and not necessarily pertaining to you? I hope you do find a way to discuss it with her, because if it's handled the right way it could be a very interesting and meaningful talk.
>> As far as whether it's the therapy itself that is harmful.... I have no definitive answers but only my personal experience to share. I think that when we are in therapy we are continually working through our issues by talking about them (that's how we begin to learn to put them to rest) and that stirs up pain and emotion inside us. When we aren't in therapy, we don't feel that pain because we aren't continually dredging it up. For me, that doesn't mean that I've actually healed from it, but that I'm numbing my emotions again. That's how I've coped all my life and in the long run it isn't that productive.
--I agree with you. Another point I'm going to bring up with my T is just what you said: given the complexity and depth of my issues and hurt, isn't it "normal" for therapy to cause some pain and hurt in the process? She'd agree probably, but then say I"m in too much pain, etc. But I've also concluded that it isn't the therapy itself that's causing my emotional meltdown lately. Especially since I've only been seeing her for two weeks and since in that time we haven't yet really discussed anything "deep" that would have dredged up these kinds of feelings. Personally, I think all of my current problems are because I *haven't* yet found a way to let out some of this stuff. And I need and want to do that, but I just want to know that I'm going to have more support fom her before I do, because I know I'll need it.
>> So maybe that's why you were feeling better - because you weren't talking about all the crud on a regular basis. And now you are stirring up those emotions again. As far as twice weekly appointments, I requested them a few weeks ago and it hasn't been easy. On the one hand I am comforted knowing I will see my T more often, but on the other, my emotions are pretty much raw all the time.--I can see your point. I'm pretty raw right now though, so I doubt it would be much worse than this, and even if it was, at least I'd know WHY I felt that way (b/c of the issues in therapy). I have no idea what's going on with me now.
>>I hope over time that will improve though. I decided that I really needed this because my T might get inside a little during a session but I had a whole week to strengthen that wall and I was getting more and more distant. With more sessions, she's better able to take down the wall more quickly than I can build it back up.
--Hm, that was the theory behind my seeing her twice weekly earlier this year. It didn't last long though because I still couldn't talk to her much (my walls are very high and thick). Now, I think I'm finding a way to start to talk to her, but I also feel like I need the extra support. I hated to ask for it though. My T has been calling me all weekend....she called twice yesterday and I wasn't in any way fine, but better than I had been the day before. Today when she called I planned to address the issues of why she thinks I'm saying the therapy is hurting me when I was merely trying to say that I need more support from her because I'm having a harder time right now but I never said it was due to the therapy, and I need to address the attachment issue with her and discuss her comments and her reactions to our relationship. But she didn't call until about 8 PM tonight and by then I was a wreck having been crying literally for 6 hours by then, and then when she called she kind of seemed like she was in a hurry and didn't want to spend time on the phone, so I didn't talk to her much. I guess we'll see what happens when I talk to her next.
Thanks Skittles. And it wasn't too much about you at all. :)SV
Posted by shrinking violet on November 27, 2004, at 21:58:57
In reply to Re: Dilemma....PLEASE help, posted by vwoolf on November 27, 2004, at 6:39:21
Wow VW, thank you! You were very helpful. I'm going to respond to portions of your response...
>> SV, first of all, congratulations for having the courage to send that email to your T. It must have been very difficult and I am sure you’ve regretted it already, but it took a huge leap of faith to actually trust her enough to let her know what is going on. You’ve probably never trusted anyone enough to do that before. And now you’re expecting her to reject you. Because probably you’ve been rejected before, and you think she will repeat the pattern.
--Yes, you definitely hit the target there. :) I hadn't realized it until I started T, but my T tries to keep pointing out that my needs weren't met (basic ones were, but not much else) and I was "neglected at best" is how she put it. And every time I tried to ask for something from my mother (a hug, or whatever) I was shooed away or yelled at, so instead I started writing notes to her and leaving them around the house, which were received better than my asking directly. Geez, is it any wonder I'm not very verbal, especially in therapy? So, yes, you are right. I keep expecting my T to reject me for needing too much. I'm still worried about it because it's sort of up in the air right now (she said she won't quit on me, but she also said she has to share the email with the director on Tue and I'm afraid he'll say I'm too much for them to handle).
>> But your T doesn’t seem to be rejecting you at all. She is actually telling you that she will keep calling all weekend to make sure you’re ok. She sounds as if she really cares a lot, and wants to stay close to you, because she understands how awful this must be for you. She sounds great, and really supportive. I know it is difficult for you to believe that, but she has read all the things you said to the Samaritans and she is not horrified. She doesn’t think you’re bad, or too needy or anything else. She can see your pain and wants to help. She wants to know if you need anything from her. Trust her. Let her mother you.
--Thank you, that was sweet. I try to belive that, and I try to believe her when she says that she is doing it because she cares, etc. But I'm still not convinced. And there are other signs to the contrary, like tonight she only called once and she called fairly late in the evening and by then I had been crying for six hours straight and really needed to hear from her. But then she sounded like she was in a rush to get off the phone and I felt like I couldn't really talk to her at all, so it felt pretty bad, as if (again) I'm too much to handle and I'm getting in the way of her time, etc.
>> I know you are not hearing this too well - you are probably misunderstanding what she is trying to say when she calls. You are determined to hear rejection, and phone calls can be difficult because you can’t see the person and their concern. It will probably be really difficult to believe that she can care until you see her again at your next session, and only then, when she doesn’t throw you out, will you begin to believe that maybe this relationship is different.
--IF she doesnt throw me out. I'm not convinced she won't. Right now I'm pretty close to running again. And okay, MAYBE when she called I heard her sound rushed, etc but maybe she wasn't. I don't know. I'm just dealing with more than I can handle right now.
>>she can see you more often, and you can afford to see her, do increase your sessions. I also find that I need more times a week to keep trusting, and although I feel quite dependent, I know I need the contact right now - it just feels right in some very small, hurt place, and I’ve decided to stop fighting that feeling.--another IF. She works at the counseling center at the Uni where I'm a grad student. It's a free service for students, so I don't pay her directly (I'm sure they get some of my tuition though, but it isn't the same, lol). Which is why I feel like I can't really ask her for more time, because I can't compensate her for it either, and the counselors there seem pretty stretched as it is with clients, and I don't want to monopolize her. I'm not sure what's going to happen; first I have to convince her that I was merely trying to ask for more sessions/time because I need more support right now and to try to get through this rough spot which ISNT due to the therapy like she thinks it is. And of course, now the director has to get involved and he of course will have a say as to whether I can see her more, etc. Right now I'll probably be lucky if they keep seeing me at all; I'm so afraid they are going to conclude that I'm too much for them to handle anymore.
>> Take care over the next while. Ask your T to repeat herself if you feel she is saying anything that you feel is hurtful - you’ll see that it is just your expectation of being hurt. I’m sure she isn’t doing anything to push you away. But keep checking with her. I ask my T to say some things over and over until I am hearing what she really is saying, rather that what I expect her to say.--I will try that, thank you.
Thank you for your thoughtful, sweet response VW. I appreciate it more than you know.
Hugs to you too.
SV
Posted by shrinking violet on November 27, 2004, at 22:00:08
In reply to Re: Dilemma....PLEASE help, posted by shrinking violet on November 27, 2004, at 21:58:57
Posted by Poet on November 28, 2004, at 1:28:54
In reply to Dilemma....PLEASE help, posted by shrinking violet on November 26, 2004, at 19:21:04
SV,
Therapy is hard. That you realize how hard it is, and keep going back and trying again shows that you are not giving in to those inner demons that try to get you to quit.
I think your therapist cares about you, she's just frustrated that she can't figure out how to reach you. I'm hard if not impossible to reach in therapy. I cross my arms and legs and refuse to talk when anything *sensative* is mentioned. My pdoc says I glower at him and I only see him for meds. My therapist just says *oh, oh, I must have touched on something...*
It doesn't take much to touch on something that I don't want to talk about. I think you're the same way. I hate talking about bulimia because my T doesn't understand it.
She told me that if my bulimia gets out of control she'd have to refer me to someone with more expertise. I felt like she was trying to get rid of me, but she really was trying to get me help that she couldn't give. Maybe your T doesn't have much experience with eating disorders?
Some of us are blurters, but some like you and I aren't. As said on Seinfeld (about something else,) but the quote works *there's nothing wrong with that.*
Hang in there and remember that you are strong- don't give up on yourself.
Poet
Posted by shrinking violet on November 28, 2004, at 21:34:32
In reply to Re: Dilemma....PLEASE help, posted by Poet on November 28, 2004, at 1:28:54
Hi Poet :)
>> Therapy is hard. That you realize how hard it is, and keep going back and trying again shows that you are not giving in to those inner demons that try to get you to quit.--Yeah, either that or I'm a masochist. I haven't figured out which. :-P
>> I think your therapist cares about you, she's just frustrated that she can't figure out how to reach you.--Yes and yes. She's told me as much a few times, even recently. Then I feel guilty for making her feel like she's failing me, because it's me, not her.
>>I'm hard if not impossible to reach in therapy. I cross my arms and legs and refuse to talk when anything *sensative* is mentioned. My pdoc says I glower at him and I only see him for meds. My therapist just says *oh, oh, I must have touched on something...*
--lol sounds familiar. I pretty much react the same way with anyone who tries to see into me too much, whether it be my T or my nutritionist or even the medical doc. I feel guilty though because they tend to misread my signals as my being hostile or angry or not wanting their help, when I feel so differently on the inside. I just can't show it on the outside.
>>It doesn't take much to touch on something that I don't want to talk about. I think you're the same way. I hate talking about bulimia because my T doesn't understand it.--Yep, I am the same way. Always have been. But I DO want to change. I want to go in there and plop down on the chair and spill it all out. I just....can't. But now it's all coming out sideways (as my T says, but now I can definitely see it happening more), and I need to be able to get some of this stuff out or I'm going to go nuts.
>> She told me that if my bulimia gets out of control she'd have to refer me to someone with more expertise. I felt like she was trying to get rid of me, but she really was trying to get me help that she couldn't give. Maybe your T doesn't have much experience with eating disorders?--Hm, recently my medical doc at school (who works closely with my T and N, also at school) made me sign a contract (if my BMI goes below what it is now I could be tossed out, blah blah). I know it's another way to kick me in my butt and try to get me to care enough about something so I'll start to eat and try to work on this, but, I don't know, I'm just afraid it's going to get me thrown out of school with one semester left. And given that my T and my whole team work at a University, I think they know a thing or two about EDs. :) They don't know everything of course (they haven't had an ED, so of course how could they really understand) but I think they are well informed and they do try very hard, so I'm lucky that they seem to know more than most professionals do.
>> Some of us are blurters, but some like you and I aren't. As said on Seinfeld (about something else,) but the quote works *there's nothing wrong with that.*
--Well, there's nothing wrong with that unless you're in therapy. *sigh*
Thanks Poet. I appreciate the encouragement. :)
SV
Posted by vwoolf on November 30, 2004, at 7:36:32
In reply to Re: Dilemma....PLEASE help, posted by shrinking violet on November 28, 2004, at 21:34:32
SV, How are you? How did your session with your T go?
Thinking of you.
Vwoolf
Posted by shrinking violet on November 30, 2004, at 21:41:30
In reply to Re: Dilemma....PLEASE help, posted by vwoolf on November 30, 2004, at 7:36:32
> SV, How are you? How did your session with your T go?
>
> Thinking of you.
>
> Vwoolf(((((((Vwoolf))))))
Thank you so much, you're so sweet. I'll try to keep this short (um, probably not possible for me, lol):
I've concluded that the biggest mistake I made (aside from seeking "treatment" to begin with) was looking to the school for help. I should have known it would be tricky.
I went to my T session tonight not exactly knowing what would happen. I was just hoping, simply, that I would either get what I asked for in terms of extra support, even though I'm not exactly sure what I even mean or need by that. Also, I don't feel as badly now as I did a few days ago (but it'll probably come back, especially during the weekend). I don't feel much of anything actually.
Basically my T threw some options at me, none of which I wanted. Either inpatient over the winter break (for an eating disorder, but of course they would address other issues as well such as depression, etc), or partial hospitalization(IOP) for the ED (of which I have tried twice now, once for an hour and once for two days before I quit over being too unable to handle the meals), or partial hosp. for anxiety and depression, or making an appt with another T who my T knows -- my T said she would even go to the appointment with me and she would consult with the new T and she would keep seeing me weekly until I could "wean" away from her. So I pretty much had to choose and make a decision then b/c the director was waiting to hear what happened after I left. So I felt (feel) trapped and forced, and STILL unable to really honestly talk about how I really feel and my thoughts (in terms of suicidal ideation). So I chose the partial outpatient for the ED again, mainly b/c I had already been there and I know what to expect. So now on top of everything else I have to deal with these meals and the weight gain. I cannot tell you how afraid I am right now. I saw the medical doc again this morning (at school; I see her weekly) and my weight has gone down again, she's not happy. So right now I'm absolutely borderline, meaning I'm just above the place where they're going to say I'm too medically unstable to stay in school (which is SUCH BS. I'm not that much underweight, technically going by the DSM criteria I'm probably only borderline anorexic) so apparently my hold on school is tenuous at best and I need to at least make it seem like I'm willing to do things like partial hosptial, etc, to try to be better.
I feel like, though, that I'm being told to not share how I really feel (suicidal thoughts, difficulty eating, etc) b/c then they have to react, and they react by putting more pressure on me or by kicking me out. It's rather ridiculous. And if the doc thinks I'm medically unstable, then they can throw me out. So the doc asks me questions like how i'm feeling, what are my symptoms, etc, and i'm afraid to be honest. My T asks about my thoughts or how I feel, and I'm afraid to be honest, so it's just really hard.
So now I need to talk to my nutritionist on Thursday and figure out if she can help me to start eating so I can be eating the amount that the IOP will expect me to eat so I dont freak out and leave when I get there, b/c if I do that I doubt they'll let me back into school. in the meantime I still have all these thougths, still feel depressed and bad but I cant say anything about it, and I *still* didn't get any of the extra support/contact that I think I need now. So it pretty much feels like I'm being punished for being honest. And NOW I have to deal with all of this fear with the inevitable meals and weight gain. And the ED is the only thing that's keeping me together right now, it really is. I cannot handle feeling more uncomfortable physically in terms of weight/food than I usually do, not on top of everything else too, I just can't. But they dont understand that concept so I cant explain it. And now I cant even quit treatment b/c I'm too far in and too much of a risk, so they wouldn't just let me go without throwing me out of school too.
The only possible up-side is that if I do this program, and consequently set up additional outside supports (at least in theory) to take some of the presure off the school doc and director, then maybe the school will back off and give me a bit more breathing room and not put so much pressure on me or my T. Some choice though, huh.
I'm just not sure what I want right now, and the fears are outweighing everything else. How do you do something when you're so afraid of it?
Aside from that though, it was actually a nice session. Some of those who read this may not agree with it, but....my T kept saying how much she cared about me and how special I am to her. Finally I became kind of aggravated and I told her to stop saying that (because it sounds like it means more than it probably does and it's confusing to me). Then she got mad and said "that's BS, no, I'm not going to stop telling you I care about you." Which I was kind of glad she reacted that way, b/c I deep down I really don't want her to stop saying it or feeling it (regardless of in whatever way she does), and I think I need to hear it, especially right now. Then she's like, "and you think it's just a client relationship and you cant see that there's so much more between us...." See, WHY does she say things like that. It's nice, it really is, but it's so hard too, you know? How the heck am I going to leave her in May? I'll probably never see her again, and considering how much she means to me...How will I handle that? But, something to deal with next semester I guess. Maybe I should just try to enjoy it for now.
She also said that "personally" she needs to know that I'm going to be OK after May (when I graduate and therefore must stop seeing her), so she wants me to set up a transfer to another T who she knows and wants me to see, and have the other T call her to know that I have an appt past May with her, so my T can know I'm ok and that I have someone there so she can rest her mind a little. Well, why does she get to rest her mind but I'll have to miss her and never see her again and not know whether she's okay or what's going on with her? She's nuts if she thinks i'm going to make it easy on her when it wont be on me (yes that's childish and probably selfish, and I really don't want to cause her any worry or pain but, at the same time, that's still how I feel). Besides, I do not want to continue therapy anymore after I leave her. I've had enough. My "plan" is to see how far I can get by May. Then, if I can live with the way I am, then so be it. If not, then I'll know I tried (hm, IF I can even manage to try b/c right now I'm too scared and depressed to try at all) and it'll be time to exit stage right, and I think I'd be able to do it then. Especially given how hard it is going to be to live without my T. But, hey, I can't tell her any of that either.
Then she picked up a little book and said that she brought this book from her personal collection at home, and the book means a lot to her and she's going to be very aware that it isnt in her bookcase, but she wanted me to hold onto it for a while and hopes i'll read it. She said it's
a "friend" of hers and she'll miss it, but she'll be happy to know it's sitting next to me (she's too sweet, isnt she? I tried so hard not to cry). It's called ""When things fall apart"". I was (and am) SO incredibly touched that she would do that. So then I got up to go and she asked for a hug (which I needed too but I wouldn't have asked for it), and I hugged her and thanked her, and as I let go she grabbed my hands and we squeezed them a bit and then on my way out I asked her if SHE was ok (for a lot of reasons which I won't go into here). As if she'd tell me if she wasn't, but I still wanted to ask to at least try to convey that I am aware of things and that I was/am oncerned. She looked more "plain" and tired than she usually does, and she has some stuff going on ersonally, most of which I probably don't know about, but she did share a tiny bit.So I feel like I have a little part of her with me just having the book here, so hopefully that will serve to be my extra "support" over the next week. I drove part of the way home with my hand on the book. :)
So, that's the story. I'm *really* scared right now, and i'm not sure I even want any of this for myself for a lot of reasons. I'm not even sure I *can* do any of the things that may help. And I can't even be honest with how I feel right now for fear of everyone reacting to it, so again I have to keep it to myself, which makes it worse I think. I dont know, I'll stop there.
See? Brevity isn't in my nature at all. *sigh*
Thank you so much for asking, it means more to me right now than you could know.
Peace,
SV
Posted by annierose on November 30, 2004, at 22:39:37
In reply to Re: Dilemma....PLEASE help » vwoolf, posted by shrinking violet on November 30, 2004, at 21:41:30
I have read your current and past threads SV and I feel you really did have an incredibly difficult choice with no time to filter, digest and make a decision. I don't understand why you have to decide at that moment. I really do feel for you. Having friends with ED, I know how difficult they are and comforting during stressful times. I would take your T's advice and set up an appointment with the person she is referring you to. Even if it's just for an interview, it would do you good to know there was another supportive person able to help (if of course you liked her). I wish therapy was free with no strings attached and you were able to go 2 - 3 times a week. I think you would find opening up much easier. I know I read where you tried it before, but it takes months. And your T sounds rather friendly-like, less psychodynamic in approach. I'll be thinking of you. Thank you for sharing your difficult session and decision. Let us know if the book is touching.
Posted by fallsfall on December 1, 2004, at 7:40:09
In reply to Re: Dilemma....PLEASE help » vwoolf, posted by shrinking violet on November 30, 2004, at 21:41:30
(((ShrinkingViolet)))
>I feel like, though, that I'm being told to not share how I really feel (suicidal thoughts, difficulty eating, etc) b/c then they have to react, and they react by putting more pressure on me or by kicking me out. It's rather ridiculous. And if the doc thinks I'm medically unstable, then they can throw me out. So the doc asks me questions like how i'm feeling, what are my symptoms, etc, and i'm afraid to be honest. My T asks about my thoughts or how I feel, and I'm afraid to be honest, so it's just really hard.
>I'm just not sure what I want right now, and the fears are outweighing everything else. How do you do something when you're so afraid of it?
You have an awful lot on your plate right now.
It sounds to me like there are two very important issues that you have to deal with before you can start to deal with the "rest" of the stuff. My experience is that it is *very* hard (impossible?) to make progress when you don't feel like you can be honest in therapy. I know too well the terror that says "I can't tell this" and the countering fear that "If I *don't* tell the truth that he won't be able to help me". I guess that at times like this, whether I can force the truth out of my mouth depends on whether I trust my therapist (or pdoc or whoever) to *really* work in *MY* best interest. This is tricky in itself, because it has a bunch of pieces: Does my therapist have sufficient skill to know what my best interest is? Does my therapist care enough to make a hard decision *because* it is in my best interest? Does my therapist care enough to protect me from *his* interests? And also: Can I force myself to accept that what he recommends *is* in my best interest even if it seems impossible to me to do? Can I rely on him to help me *do* the impossible? Do I know that he will understand that/why it is so hard for me? Do I feel free enough with him to discuss (argue) this recommendation until I can live with it?
These are SO hard to do, but it sounds like your therapist might have enough of your trust for you to forge through this with her. Could you see her more frequently until you are situated in the program? To have some help getting over the honesty and fear of eating issues?
It sounds like the program will be difficult (you dropped out twice in the past) unless you have sufficient support in the very beginning. It also sounds like the program itself does NOT provide that support for you (or you wouldn't have dropped out before).
So can you say "I know that I have to address the ED issues. Right now I'm not sure that I want to do this enough to succeed. I'm afraid to talk about this because I feel like when I talk about it the "punishment" gets worse - so talking about it makes things worse rather than helping it get easier for me because I have all this anxiety about making things worse. I need to know that I can say what is really true for me, and know that you will use that information to *help* me, rather than *punish* me. While I may know this intellectually right now, I certainly don't *feel* it. If I could feel like I could be sure enough that you would help me, then I could force myself to tell you the real truth (even though it would be incredibly anxiety/terror provoking for me). Only when I feel that talking to you is *SAFE*, will I be able to talk about the fears that keep me from eating. And the program is not likely to succeed until I can deal with those fears."
Gee, can you tell that I have had this very conversation with myself more than once? Does this echo what you are feeling? I guess, that what I hear you saying is that the ED program is not likely to succeed if you are *pushed* into it (too many fears, and the pushing just makes them worse because it takes away your control). I'm hoping that if you can feel *supported* rather than *pushed* that it might have a better chance of success.
I hear so clearly in your posts that you *WANT* to get to a place where your life is not terrifying for you. I want that for you, too.
(P.S. we can have a contest to see who can write the longest posts...)
Posted by vwoolf on December 1, 2004, at 9:58:53
In reply to Re: Dilemma....PLEASE help » shrinking violet, posted by fallsfall on December 1, 2004, at 7:40:09
SV, I'm glad your session with your T went well yesterday. I wish my T would lend me something precious, or hug me. It must feel so warm and comforting. Yours sounds really nice and warm. It is good you were able to trust her with that email, so that she knows a bit more about what's going on.
Your post after the session is exceptionally clear about your feelings of ambivalence. You want help so badly, but can't allow yourself to ask for it or accept it for fear of hurt and rejection, and of being forced into something you don't want. You sound as if you would like to give up the defensive behaviour, but need the defences to protect you against the uncertainty. But she can only help you if she knows what you are afraid of. Is there any way you could copy the post into an email, as it is, and send it to her, with FYI written at the top? Make it confidential too, if you like. I am sure she would only use the information to help you in a way you would find acceptable, in agreement with you. It feels as if she is right on your side. Trust yourself to trust her. You have already made that first huge leap of faith. It will be easier this time.
Thinking of you a lot.
P.S. I am very touched that you find me "sweet" - I think it's the first time anyone has called me that. I am usually known as a hard headed, sarcastic, intellectual type. I have made an exception around my therapist, which is helping me to be kinder and gentler towards myself as well. I think it is useful to put aside that critical voice for a while, although it is very hard to do after a lifetime of self-hatred.
Bestest
VWoolf
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