![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 28. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by daisym on November 12, 2004, at 17:24:41
I know we've had a thread about talking to friends about therapy before, but I am really curious about how everyone else balances what the world tells them about needing therapy, and how they feel about it.
I had lunch with a pretty close friend today. She knows more than most people about what I am working on in therapy, etc. etc. I told her we had opened up a rough patch so I was seeing my therapist a lot...like 3 or 4 times a week. She actually sort of gasped and shook her head (sympathy?) so I quickly explained how it was keeping me together and all that. Fortunately, she got it pretty quickly and was able to support me going this much, not judge that he was making me overly dependent or anything.
I just talked to my therapist on the phone and told him how uncomfortable this made me. He said this is a very common response because there is sort of a universal assumption that going to therapy "a lot" meant you were "really bad off" instead of seeing it as intense support, or as a way to stay open enough to work through some delicate issues. His challenge to me is to stop struggling against getting my needs met and just sink into it for one month. "Just allow yourself to need me as much as you want for the next month, come often, accept check in calls and just trust the process and our relationship. Think of it as another experiment." It feels like a huge relief to let myself do that, one less battle I have to fight with myself.
But I still feel like it is something I can't share with many people, there is so much value in our culture on pulling yourself together, being strong and self-sufficient. So I don't know if I can handle this experiment for a whole month, even as hard as the Holiday season is. I think I need a support group for therapy. Wait, I have one...Babble!
Thoughts?
Posted by cubic_me on November 12, 2004, at 17:47:46
In reply to Hello, I'm Daisy and I go to therapy a lot..., posted by daisym on November 12, 2004, at 17:24:41
Babble is great for talking about therapy over and over and not worrying that other people will think you are crazy. Tho we are all a little crazy don't you think!
I live in a house of 7 students, and none of them know I go to therapy (well a couple of them used to, but I suppose they think I'm past all that now ;)) Only my boyfriend knows, because I know that he will love me whatever. I suppose in the US therapy is a bit more acceptable than here in the UK, but either way the culture is to 'stay strong' and be 'normal'.
You are certainly not alone.
Posted by Skittles on November 12, 2004, at 17:55:11
In reply to Hello, I'm Daisy and I go to therapy a lot..., posted by daisym on November 12, 2004, at 17:24:41
I am sailing in a similar ship. Most of my friends and family are aware that I'm seeing a therapist, but they have no idea how often I see her. I'd guess they probably figure I go a couple of times a month, when actually I'm going twice a week. Your therapist's explanation is precisely why I keep tight lipped about it too. I'm afraid that everyone will think I'm terribly ill. And maybe I am, but I don't want anyone else knowing about it!! And like you said, I feel pressure to appear strong and put together.
As far as your therapist's challenge, I think I would struggle with it too. Though imagining that those words were said to me makes me weep. What a release it would be to allow it. It would be hard, but probably wonderfully freeing, a weight off the shoulders. I think I'd at least give it a shot. You deserve to be taken care of sometimes, Daisy. Do you think you could let him do that for you, just this once? Sometimes when we get a need met, the need itself becomes less urgent. Does that make sense?
BTW, I must find out what city you're in and who your T is so I can move there. Or maybe your T could just talk to mine and give her a few pointers? She's really nice, but she needs a little help with saying these wonderful things.
Posted by JenStar on November 12, 2004, at 21:22:55
In reply to Hello, I'm Daisy and I go to therapy a lot..., posted by daisym on November 12, 2004, at 17:24:41
I get what you're saying about telling people about 'things.' When I was seeing a therapist, I wanted to tell my friends -- not all the details, of course, but at least that I was going. It was frustrating because some friends had what I call a somewhat negative response. Here's what they'd do:
1. Silence, eyes widen.
2. Then they say in an overly careful and very cheerful voice, "Well! I GUESS, if it HELPS, then....WELL, OK, GOOD," or something like that.
3. Then, for the rest of the lunch, I feel that they're sneaking looks at me, checking for cracks or fissures or snot hanging from my nose or god only knows what.
4. Conversation flows almost just as naturally, but I feel that there are small micro-pauses in which I am being examined.
5. The friend never, ever brings it up again, almost as if I'd talked about something really taboo.
With a handful of people, I felt untrusted after that point. It was as if I'd told them that I was convicted of drunk driving, or that I had stolen things from a store, or that I was secretly a porno star. I felt that I had been relegated to the bin of 'lesser' friends, the bin reserved for the losers / the unreliable ones.
What a horrible feeling! Just for saying that I was seeing a therapist! I mean, geez. It's not the end of the world!
My GOOD (true) friends didn't have this reaction. It only came from the friends who were more-than-an-acquaintance-and-it-would-be-weird-if-I-didn't-tell-them-but-who-I-didn't-TOTALLY-want-to-tell.
OH well...such is life...it just makes me (us?) stronger, right?
JenStar
Posted by JenStar on November 12, 2004, at 21:31:33
In reply to Hello, I'm Daisy and I go to therapy a lot..., posted by daisym on November 12, 2004, at 17:24:41
hi Daisy,
I just realized that I used your post as a starting point for my own little novella. Sorry for being all ME ME ME!When I read your post I was glad to hear what a supportive T you have. It sounds like a good idea -- giving in to the support and letting yourself be helped.
If people don't understand, too bad for them. Sometimes people have prejudices and preconceived notions about stuff (not just therapy, but all kinds of things that are new & different to them) and once they are exposed to it they develop a more open-minded view.
I'm not saying it's your job to open their minds -- what a burden THAT would be! Just that sometimes it happens naturally, as it did with your friend. If you asked her before, she might have said that only 'really ill' people see a T 2-3X/week. Now that she knows YOU go, she can see other possibilities - that is IS also for regular people working on issues.
It doesn't mean that you're weak or poor or shaky...it means that you actually have the courage to get in there and fix things that are broken. So many people don't even try to fix stuff! I think therapy takes courage.
Anyway, I think it's important to be strong and honest about therapy. Don't ever apologize for it, don't make light of it / fun of it, and don't act like it's something embarrassing. Act like it's mundane -- the dentist, the post-office, the dog-grooming. It's not mundane, exactly, but it IS normal and part of a normal routine.
I myself made the mistake of poking fun at my therapist with some of my friends who thought therapy was "kooky". I felt that I was betraying myself when I did this, b/c the therapy WAS important to me. I would never do this again b/c I feel that I have more personal strength now. I guess I learned from that experience.
Anyway, I think that people will follow your lead. If you act like the Therapy is normal, cool, and a standard thing to do for you, the friends will be cool with it too and won't see it as a big deal.
take care.
hope it all goes well.JenStar
Posted by 10derheart on November 13, 2004, at 1:25:42
In reply to Re: Hello, I'm Daisy and I go to therapy a lot... » daisym, posted by JenStar on November 12, 2004, at 21:31:33
Jenstar,
Hope it's okay if I jump in, I know you all don't really know me (hope to change that...) but I lurk daily and get so much from all your posts.
Both your posts are EXACTLY how I feel about this whole subject. You must be reading my mind (scary for you!) Thanks so much for stating all of that better that I ever could have. I am a huge champion of the idea of treating our mental health needs NO DIFFERENTLY than our physical ones, as you already explained beautifully. And I do think our example, steady and repeated, is the best way to slowly open minds.
One more example...have you ever had a *friend*, who the next time they see you after finding out you're in therapy, at the slightest sigh or non-smiling expression says - are you okay? Something wrong? Do you need to talk? I'm dealing with that right now, and bless the woman she means well but that attitude makes me want to scream.....arghhhh!
Your posts are awesome and I love your attitude...(and I have also further-hijacked Daisy's thread. Oops...I apologize.) - 10derHeart
Posted by Aphrodite on November 13, 2004, at 6:46:44
In reply to Hello, I'm Daisy and I go to therapy a lot..., posted by daisym on November 12, 2004, at 17:24:41
Remember that in real life, I am a very guarded and private person to begin with. That said, I would caution you to be very, very careful who you share things with. I know how hard it is to be alone in all of this and how freeing it would be to connect with others on this issue, but if they haven't been there themselves, they're simply not going to understand, and you're going to get hurt. If before I went to therapy, someone told me a similar story to my own, I would have raised an eyebrow too. It's not that I am judgmental or unsympathetic, I simply didn't understand what the process was like. So, I believe even the most well-meaning of people who haven't been through it themselves are not going to give you the kind of feedback you need.
I suggest stick with your therapist and your friends at Babble. You will be understood. Perhaps later, when you're stronger, you can use your radar and decide if perhaps some of your friends can be educated and directed in how to support and understand your situation. For now, I wouldn't risk it and add to your already too full plate.
Again, I want to reiterate I am overly cautious in interpersonal relationships, so my words of advice should be taken in that light. I know that sometimes it is very worth is to take a huge risk like confiding in a friend because the payoff could be enormous.
I know the isolation can be devasting. Boy, do I know. Lean on your therapist. Take him up on the offer.
Posted by Froso on November 13, 2004, at 12:51:43
In reply to Hello, I'm Daisy and I go to therapy a lot..., posted by daisym on November 12, 2004, at 17:24:41
It is not that my friends look down on me when I say I see a psychiatrist/T. I've known them for many years and they've seen me when I came out of the hospital and back to Greece (I was studying in England when I had a breakdown) and I think they do realize I need help. But I cannot share with them my feelings and thoughts about my therapy since they don't have an experience of it. And sometimes I go out of a session having realised such an important aspect of myself and I'm so happy and I want to tell a friend but then I know I can't. The same goes when I'm out of a session feeling frustrated and especially I can't tell anyone about my attachment to my T. I'm glad all of you feel the same but what I wanted to add is that even here I feel a bit awkward since you all seem to have great experience of therapy and the psychoanalytic process or CBT etc. and many times I feel so ignorant of all these. I've been in therapy for three years and it's only now that I can say that I understand a bit of what is actually happening there (a tiny bit) in my T's consulting room.
All the best to all
and I did make this post too much of ME as one of you said and I'm sorry about that, but it's only by sharing my limited experience that I can connect with you.
Posted by Froso on November 13, 2004, at 13:42:41
In reply to Hello, I'm Daisy and I go to therapy a lot..., posted by daisym on November 12, 2004, at 17:24:41
Posted by fallsfall on November 13, 2004, at 14:59:01
In reply to Hello, I'm Daisy and I go to therapy a lot..., posted by daisym on November 12, 2004, at 17:24:41
It is risky to tell IRL friends that you go to therapy a lot. But I truly believe that we all need IRL friends - at least one or two - to know who we really are. It is hard to decide who to tell, and terrifying to say it, and scary to try to process their reaction.
But I truly believe that one therapist and Babble is not enough for the long haul. For some time, it may be all we can do - and it is certainly better than nothing. But I think we do have to reach out to real live people who can see our faces, and read our body language, and give us real comfort and companionship.
I'm hoping that most of the reactions are due to surprise, rather than horror. Those of you who present so very "together", *will* surprise your friends when they find out you are less together than you appear. It took you a while to get comfortable with seeing a therapist (still?), they need some time to get used to the idea, too.
But if you can choose a true friend, then they will want to know why you choose to go to therapy a lot, and they will want you to get the help you need. Just take it slowly as you reveal this stuff - so that everyone can get used to the idea.
And keep reminding yourself that it takes courage to walk into his office each time. And keep reminding yourself that he (the professional you have hired to help you) keeps telling you that going to therapy a lot is what you need to do. Therapists aren't always right - but this time, I think yours is.
Posted by babbgal on November 13, 2004, at 15:05:35
In reply to Re: Hello, I'm Daisy and I go to therapy a lot... » daisym, posted by Aphrodite on November 13, 2004, at 6:46:44
I currently see my T twice a week, and occasionally three times a week, if I'm in town on Saturdays. (T. actively sees patients on Saturdays.) If I don't go up to our weekend house with my husband, he asks, "Are you seeing Dr. ...?" and he asks, "Are you going twice a week regularly now?" I often don't know what to say. My T. gives me so much support, and we're dredging up so much stuff, I feel I have to go often to keep up the momentum. (I'm very much "Bring it on!" in therapy.) Things seem to be OK when I reveal to my husband what my T. and I are talking about -- since we commute to work together an hour each way, it seems like we do our most important talking in the car. When I can, I think it helps that I tell my husband what's going on, even if it's just a little bit at a time.
But yeah, I go to therapy a lot, too. But it's saving my life, so I do.
Posted by Poet on November 13, 2004, at 15:57:00
In reply to Hello, I'm Daisy and I go to therapy a lot..., posted by daisym on November 12, 2004, at 17:24:41
I'm Poet and I've been in therapy for two years and three months.
I have one friend who I can be more open with about therapy. I think it's because she has been in therapy, and has no problem telling me about it. She is a *blurter* she just blurts and blurts to her T. She isn't seeing her regularly anymore, she just calls her and goes in when she thinks she needs to.
Not being a blurter, I told my friend about the box of pain, but not what's inside it. I don't think I will ever be that open with her about therapy and some of the deeper things that I am in it for.
I rely on babble more and more for support, here, I am understood as to why I don't walk into my therapist's office and spill out everything at once. My friend understands my need for therapy, but not how I need to go at my own slow pace.
I will do my best to attend all Daisy babble support meetings. I'll bring chocolate donuts and pour the coffee. Whatever you decide on allowing yourself to need your therapist more, I hope that you aren't letting that negative voice in your head tell you that you aren't worthy of his care. You are.
Poet
Posted by daisym on November 13, 2004, at 17:49:00
In reply to Re: Hello, I'm Daisy and I go to therapy a lot... » daisym, posted by cubic_me on November 12, 2004, at 17:47:46
<<<I suppose in the US therapy is a bit more acceptable than here in the UK, but either way the culture is to 'stay strong' and be 'normal'
>>>I don't know if this is true. I think it is politically correct to say that therapy is "OK" here in the US but I think the average person still believes it isn't for them. Unless there is some huge tragedy or something or the person has experienced it themselves.
I guess this is one of those things that it might feel deeply satisfying to talk about and ask questions about but you aren't "supposed" to. Sort of like sex...
Posted by daisym on November 13, 2004, at 17:55:24
In reply to Hi Daisy, I'm Skittles. I go to therapy a lot too., posted by Skittles on November 12, 2004, at 17:55:11
Skittles,
I am trying to allow myself to not struggle against this support, no matter what the gate-keeper in me says. I'm glad you are allowing yourself support too. I am discovering that what you said is true...I'm not nearly as depressed when I don't feel so alone. And I don't feel so alone when I have lots of contact. He tells me that these feelings well ease off on their own over time; I guess I just have to trust him on that.
I live on the West Coast, in Northern Ca. I offered to share with Dinah, I guess I can share with you too, occasionally. I just don't want him to like you better -- you might not try his patience the way I do! :)
Posted by daisym on November 13, 2004, at 18:08:18
In reply to Re: Hello, I'm Daisy and I go to therapy a lot... » daisym, posted by JenStar on November 12, 2004, at 21:31:33
Jen,
I liked both of your responses. I'm a pretty private person so I think only 6 or 7 people know I'm in therapy. But that is OK, it isn't something I really want to talk about with just anyone anyway. But this friend is a retired therapist...and she recommended my therapist in the first place. But I'm realizing that she was more short-term, somatic memory based kinds of stuff. She did a lot of body stuff with older people and athletes. She talks a lot about making choices and taking action. My therapist talks more about feelings and healing over time. Anyway, they are very different, though they respect each other as colleagues. I just didn't expect her initial reaction to the amount I'm going to be what it was. But I can understand it.
I agree with normalizing the process. I have to do it for myself first! As necessary as it all feels, I still don't understand where all these little kid feelings came from and why I can't control them. Totally screws with who I thought I was.
My therapist has said that most of my life has been built on borrowed internal constructs... I'm a hodge-podge of what everyone expects me to be or what I think they want me to be. Finding my true self is going to take sometime. In the meantime, I feel shaky because I have no real core self to fall back on, I feel like I've been bulldozed. He encourages me to borrow his until mine is formed and strong. If I do that I think I can make it through all of this.
Posted by daisym on November 13, 2004, at 18:09:20
In reply to Re: Hello, I'm Daisy and I go to therapy a lot... » JenStar, posted by 10derheart on November 13, 2004, at 1:25:42
That's OK...hijack away! That is what makes a great thread, watching it wind away and back again.
Posted by daisym on November 13, 2004, at 18:11:47
In reply to Re: Hello, I'm Daisy and I go to therapy a lot... » daisym, posted by Aphrodite on November 13, 2004, at 6:46:44
>>>I know the isolation can be devasting.
<<<I sent you a long email, but I want to remind you that you've isolated yourself as protection. Now you need to learn how to reach out, a little at a time. I'm trying. I've been burned a couple of times, but somehow I keep thinking it will be worth it when I learn how to do it better.
I don't know if I'll ever be brave enough for a group, like cubic, but one-on-one is a good start.
Posted by daisym on November 13, 2004, at 18:14:22
In reply to Re: Hello, I'm Froso ... but I feel ignorant., posted by Froso on November 13, 2004, at 12:51:43
I'm glad you are posting Froso. You don't have to know anything specific, your support and your own experiences add to everyone else's and that makes Babble great. Don't be shy about jumping in.
If I hadn't found this site, I wouldn't know nearly what I know now. I was lost my first 6 months of therapy. I read everything I could get my hands on, trying to figure it all out.
Ultimately what matters is that it is helping. For you and for me.
Posted by daisym on November 13, 2004, at 18:18:24
In reply to Re: Hello, I'm Daisy and I go to therapy a lot... » daisym, posted by fallsfall on November 13, 2004, at 14:59:01
Thanks Falls. I worry that I'm not doing the right thing by "allowing" myself to have so much contact. There is such a debate around this. And so many cynics.
I know I need IRL support too. When you are really desperate and alone, you need someone to call who can keep you from hurting yourself. I'm trying to build those relationships, slowly, as you say. I'm just surprised by the reactions, still.
I'm still way more comfortable getting support here, as you can tell by my answers. I like working with words and my thoughts are clearer when I type. I'll figure out a balance someday, maybe.
Posted by daisym on November 13, 2004, at 18:26:43
In reply to Hi Daisy, posted by Poet on November 13, 2004, at 15:57:00
>>>I will do my best to attend all Daisy babble support meetings. I'll bring chocolate donuts and pour the coffee. Whatever you decide on allowing yourself to need your therapist more, I hope that you aren't letting that negative voice in your head tell you that you aren't worthy of his care. You are.
<<Thank you, Poet. I love chocolate donuts and coffee is an essential food group. Thank goodness you didn't say fruit and bagels!
Worthy is still a hard word for me. It is more like being self-indulgent...need vs. want. Some weeks I'm sure I need therapy, other weeks I'm think I just want therapy. So I struggle.
I'm like you in that even those I've talked to about therapy, or my therapist, don't know why I'm going. I think I've told 2 people any content at all...mostly people assume it is stress overload. But this is all powerfully private. So sharing on Babble is safe, but IRL, no way.
So, I'm going to try the experiment for now. We talked about Thanksgiving. We are both in town and he told me we'd work something out about sessions. I think of it as a weekend, he said, "it's only one day." (big sigh of relief)Ridiculous though, that I think 5 days is a really long time. *sigh*
Posted by daisym on November 13, 2004, at 18:33:36
In reply to Re: Hello, I'm Daisy and I go to therapy a lot..., posted by babbgal on November 13, 2004, at 15:05:35
>>>(I'm very much "Bring it on!" in therapy.)
<<<I love that! Can you teach me how to have that attitude? It takes me awhile to get to stuff. I don't actively avoid it, I just can't figure out how to jump in sometimes. Mondays are the hardest. I know what you mean about momentum, in that sense.
I think it is great that you can talk with your husband about your progress in therapy. You are lucky to have the support. I always try to look at it from the spouses point of view, do they feel threatened, or worried? I don't talk to my hubby much about any of this; trust is one of my issues and there are other reasons too. Besides, he states often that he doesn't "believe in therapy -- that is what I have a wife for!"
Really, really big SIGH.
Posted by peacefeline on November 13, 2004, at 20:08:31
In reply to Re: Hello, I'm Daisy and I go to therapy a lot... » babbgal, posted by daisym on November 13, 2004, at 18:33:36
I don't walk around with a sandwich board that says "I'm in therapy", but to people I know fairly well I've been completely honest about it. I feel like that's the only way that therapy will ever be "normalized". And the truth is, I don't know anyone my age or older (I'm 47) who hasn't been through enough stuff to *need* a little therapy! Most anyone could benefit, IMO.
But either way, I haven't gotten any "weird" responses. Maybe because they also know all the really hard turns my life has taken in the last couple of years, or maybe it's just that my friends happen to be more accepting of it. I'd have to give that part some thought.
This is a really great thread.
Susan
Posted by daisym on November 13, 2004, at 21:53:53
In reply to Re: Hello, I'm Daisy and I go to therapy a lot..., posted by peacefeline on November 13, 2004, at 20:08:31
You are indeed lucky if you live amongst those who just "get it." I'm 42 and I work in human services and still it isn't a topic that comes up much. I'm very reserved, as people have high expectation of my coping skills. So much of it I suspect, is me not talking about it, anticipating that the idea of me being in therapy would ripple through my staff and make them nervous.
But I've thought about this. With all the kitchen conversations we've had at work, we've talked about kids, drugs, sex, husbands - good and bad- cars, sex, clothes, menopause, pregnancy, parents, aging, boob jobs, sex, flowers, food, movies, sex...but never therapy. And I know I'm not the only one going (I sign the health reimbursement forms.) So, it isn't "just" another topic. Maybe it should be though, huh?
Nice to see a new poster, btw.
Posted by babbgal on November 15, 2004, at 17:18:48
In reply to Re: Hello, I'm Daisy and I go to therapy a lot... » babbgal, posted by daisym on November 13, 2004, at 18:33:36
>I always try to look at it from the spouses
>point of view, do they feel threatened, or
>worried?I think with my husband, it's worry. If I'm going to therapy three times a week, he thinks it's a sign of SOMETHING IS WRONG, whereas I see it as ongoing support around things I need to talk about. I was diagnosed bipolar II last year, and for the longest time he didn't mention it or seem bothered by it. But now stuff is bubbling to the surface, and I think he sees my sometimes increased therapy visits as a potential sign that something "bad" is going to happen. I also think he knows this can be an irrational thought, and I also think he gets scared sometimes as I fight my way through things. I think my depressions, especially, scare him.
> <<<I love that! Can you teach me how to have
>that attitude? It takes me awhile to get to
>stuff. I don't actively avoid it, I just can't
>figure out how to jump in sometimes. Mondays
>are the hardest. I know what you mean about
>momentum, in that sense.:)
I think what really got me to "bring it on," is my previous experience with therapy; I went for 3 years and felt it didn't help at all. Of course back then I wasn't diagnosed properly. Then I got mad that I wasted so much time and I vowed that this would be different, now that my pdoc had hooked me up with a great T. I started taking notes like mad in therapy, to the point where my T. would kind of chuckle at me; my response was, I'm determined here, and I don't want to forget the things that are really important. And my T. took me seriously. I think I took copious notes for the first 8 months; now I do so less regularly.
There are certainly things that are difficult for me to talk about, and I tread gingerly in those areas, but I guess I go in there with the feeling like, I'm here to learn and grow, and I'm just going to put as much on the table as I can, and I know that my T. will take care of me.
Wow - actually that's what it is. I trust him and I trust that he will take care of me, given my truths. Maybe it's unusual that there was something about him made me trust him immediately. In any case, I thank my lucky stars for him and that he keeps things safe when we're taking on big scary monsters.
Posted by Daisym on November 16, 2004, at 12:45:02
In reply to Re: Hello, I'm Daisy and I go to therapy a lot... » daisym, posted by babbgal on November 15, 2004, at 17:18:48
<<<Wow - actually that's what it is. I trust him and I trust that he will take care of me, given my truths. Maybe it's unusual that there was something about him made me trust him immediately. In any case, I thank my lucky stars for him and that he keeps things safe when we're taking on big scary monsters.
I smiled at your "wow" -- funny how we right things automatically and then it hits us that they are true. I'm glad you have him.
As far as big scary monsters, do you ever worry that what you see as monsters, everyone else sees as dust bunnies under the bed? I'm in the middle of those feelings again. "Things aren't so bad compared to other people, it is my husband who is sick, not me; the csa stuff is 30 years old, shouldn't I be over it by now?" You know those thoughts... My therapist told me yesterday that I shouldn't underestimate how damaged my trust system is and how that leads to resistance of support because I'm sure people will fail me. But I know I need support so I've got myself on a teeter-totter -- "I can do it alone" -- "No, I can't" -- "I can do it alone" -- "No I can't". I laugh when he imitates me but he has me down now.
:)
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