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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 36. Go back in thread:
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 5, 2004, at 21:22:36
In reply to Borderline Personality Disorder/Effexor/Suicidal, posted by Corafree on August 5, 2004, at 18:56:07
Hi Cora,
I understand that you are beginning a treatment and having feelings of sabatage. I hope that you will carefully examine the real reason for those thoughts. Is it fear of change? Is it a feeling of not deserving help? Is it a fear of facing a particular issue?
Whatever it might be, you are mighter than your feelings and your fears. After all, you are the creator of both. You are deserving of gifts of peace within as all of us. The only one behind the door is your heart. Opening your heart for yourself will dissolve the fears of change or issue that stand in your way to peace.
Cora, you aren't alone in your feelings. I go through them wave after wave. Hanging onto each other helps get us through the worst storms of emotions and urges. Be safe with yourself.
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 6, 2004, at 22:42:29
In reply to Borderline Personality Disorder/Effexor/Suicidal, posted by Corafree on August 5, 2004, at 18:56:07
Posted by corafree on August 6, 2004, at 4:46:18
> Living has become a daily nightmare this past week and a half. Since I have borderline
> personality disorder, it is time to begin DBT (dialectical behavioral therapy). My
> therapist told me I had to be absolutely sure ??? I could go to both sessions a week, one
> w/ her and one w/ the group. Since my last doc w/ the God syndrome, whom I will no
> longer see, said I was noncompliant (It was becaue I was in the midwest watching my
> father die!), I have become noncompliant. That was one of his reasons for taking me off
> Klonopin. I was on six a day. Now, I AM missing appts., all kinds of appts. My anxiety
> level has gone way up, beyond what two Klonopin can even touch, and I can’t go
> anywhere and am agoraphobic. The system I’m in hasn’t even appointed me a new doc
> yet. I am either in physical or emotional pain constantly and suidical ideation is at its
> greatest. The will and the way are literally worked out. My therapist said that if I failed
> to comply w/ DBT it could be very bad for me. I am so undescribably scared and fear (I
> HATE FEAR) is ruling me. Still my fam of origin does not show that they care about my
> illness, as did my father. My children love me so much that they are even willing to let
> me go if I can no longer stand living. My caseworker says ‘don’t sabotage yourself.’ but
> I am. HELP! Please help me hang on. I don’t know how to go it alone anymore! I need
> you all so very much. cf
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 6, 2004, at 22:51:54
In reply to SORRY TO JUMP IN - BUT HELP PLEASE?! « corafree, posted by Dr. Bob on August 6, 2004, at 22:42:29
Cora,
It sounds like the Klonopin was helping you a great deal. I would insist on getting a doc to put you back on it. You may be suffering from rebound anxiety. When I got off of Klonopin, my anxiety went through the house. Are you on antidepressants?
Cora, please don't take me wrong, but you sound like you need to be hospitalized for acute suicidal ideation. You need treatment for you pain both mentally and physically. Please go to an ER and get admitted. You need treatment right away. The psych doc can get you medicated sufficiently inpatient. I don't feel you are ready for therapy at this stage. You need to be stabilized right away. Remember, this is not you Cora. This depression is a disease that came on you like it did me. Treat it as if you were bleeding to death. It is stealing your life. We want you and need you here, but you need help - ASAP. Do this as if you were taking care of your child. Don't let anyone or anything stand in the way. You need to feel safe with yourself again.
Posted by shortelise on August 7, 2004, at 1:26:46
In reply to SORRY TO JUMP IN - BUT HELP PLEASE?! « corafree, posted by Dr. Bob on August 6, 2004, at 22:42:29
Corafree, I agree with Shadows - do what you have to do to get some help. Anxiety is a monster, and I've been there, with it slavering and keeping me from being able to function.
I don't know you, but from the little I've read you've been through a really awful time, so maybe you need to be extra kind to yourself. You are in pain, really hurting - this is a really, really lousy time to think about suicide. It's a time to think about keeping yourself safe until you are feeling better. The suffering person that is you needs kindness, and gentle, loving care at the moment. Please look until you find that care. If it's the ER, or a doc you can call, or a friend, a safe place to be or someone to be with, please do that.
I send you what care and kindness I can throught these words and thoughts I am sending to you. Stick around - it gets better.
Shorte (another "borderline")
Posted by Atticus on August 7, 2004, at 6:40:39
In reply to Re: SORRY TO JUMP IN - BUT HELP PLEASE?!, posted by shortelise on August 7, 2004, at 1:26:46
Cora,
Take it from someone who actually went through with a suicide attempt earlier this year, slashed his left wrist and forearm to tatters with a boxcutter, and ended up in a psych ward, please, please don't learn things the hard way like I did. Shadowplayers721 and shortelise are spot on with their advice. Walk into an ER, tell a crisis interventionist how you feel, and get stabilized (and safe) right away. I'm so glad now that I dialed 911 as I started to black out. My father is in total denial about my entire mental illness, but I was shocked by the support I received from my sibs, with whom I've had a pretty emotionally distant relationship. You would be amazed at the wonderful, totally unexpected surprises that life -- which can seem so unrelentingly brutal -- still holds for you. I've been to the edge of the abyss and jumped off, and it certainly wasn't the gentle passage into that good night I thought it would be. I remember so vividly telling my pdoc on the ward, "Just give me one good reason why I should want to see another sunrise." In the end, I discovered that deep down I wanted to see that sunrise a lot more than I believed or understood. I was placed in intensive outpatient therapy like you describe when I was released and helped by it incredibly. My social worker has just been so great. So hang on, hang on with all the strength you don't think you have but really do. Atticus
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 7, 2004, at 9:08:15
In reply to SORRY TO JUMP IN - BUT HELP PLEASE?! « corafree, posted by Dr. Bob on August 6, 2004, at 22:42:29
Posted by cirrus6000 on August 6, 2004, at 23:21:27
hey cf contact me at cirrus6000 at yahoo dot com
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 7, 2004, at 9:15:51
In reply to SORRY TO JUMP IN - BUT HELP PLEASE?! « corafree, posted by Dr. Bob on August 6, 2004, at 22:42:29
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 6, 2004, at 22:56:35
In reply to BPersonalityDs - Are There Any Of You Out There?, posted by corafree on August 6, 2004, at 5:50:30
Cora,
I posted to you on psychobabble too. Please get hospitalized. This is Major Depression. You need to be medicated properly and be stabilized before therapy begins.
Posted by terrics on August 7, 2004, at 10:17:27
In reply to Borderline Personality Disorder/Effexor/Suicidal, posted by Corafree on August 5, 2004, at 18:56:07
Hi Cora, I hope by the time this is posted you have gotten help and feel somewhat better. You sound very depressed. When you are feeling better perhaps we can 'talk' about dbt. I started about 2 months ago. It is worth it. If you are up to it and want to email at my yahoo email address here it is: dogsandcatsmany@yahoo.com terrics
Posted by corafree on August 7, 2004, at 19:54:28
In reply to Why you should not commit suicide - For Everyone, posted by pinkeye on August 5, 2004, at 20:10:03
My father was 1/4 native American and he spent a lot of time with many tribes, helping them to farm, raise livestock, learn/educate, and basically he was this 'free spirit, good spirit' and everyone loved him. He never told me what you have just said. He knew about my many attempts. Why are you knowledgeable of this? A soul turns into a body and needs food, water, shelter??? A soul itself doesn't need these things does it?? Thank you for influencing me to take one step back. cf
Posted by corafree on August 7, 2004, at 20:03:52
In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder/Effexor/Suicidal, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 5, 2004, at 21:22:36
Scared because the relationship between I and my therapist is soooo very important, and I never have relationships that last. Last eve I called Crisis and they sent a team. We talked about the hospital, but it was full, as always. One of them told me that the DBT 'group' people would like me. I thought maybe he was right, so feel asleep thinking maybe someone who likes me at first, will keep on liking me. Tks cf
Posted by corafree on August 7, 2004, at 20:11:38
In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder/Effexor/Suicidal » Corafree, posted by terrics on August 7, 2004, at 10:17:27
Yeah, the more I learned about borderlines, the more scared I got. Then to commit to this program was stressed so firmly by my counselor and that scared me. So I've met someone, you, who has it too??? Yeah, I wondered if I was ready, ya know w/ the grief and pain and stuff, and thought about hospitalization and looked into it last night and a week ago, but they are always full, and when the people I'm talking to find out that I'm scheduled to begin DBT in two weeks, they act like they don't want to hospitalize me anyway. See I kind of thought I should be more stable before i begin, but maybe they like you coming in with massive anxiety, because that it what they work with and even provoke, right? I've avoided you'alls followups. Start getting upset, ya know, it's all so real. Boy was I the great pretender. Tks and I am keeping your address.... cf
Posted by corafree on August 7, 2004, at 22:00:12
In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder/Effexor/Suicidal, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 5, 2004, at 21:22:36
I am afraid to leave the house. I am afraid that I won't be able to LEARN because I feel so much pain and anxiety, and my memory is not good. I lost a job before I applied for SSD because they said my memory was not good enough. I forget how to take notes ... if I ever knew how? I have stood and listened to a person speak w/ me for minutes and left not knowing a word he/she said. I'm afraid I'm toooo ILL to do it. I think that's what I'm afraid of. tks cf
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 8, 2004, at 1:47:41
In reply to SORRY TO JUMP IN - BUT HELP PLEASE?! « corafree, posted by Dr. Bob on August 6, 2004, at 22:42:29
Re: SORRY TO JUMP IN - BUT HELP PLEASE?! » Normal Again
Posted by corafree on August 7, 2004, at 22:25:25
In reply to Re: SORRY TO JUMP IN - BUT HELP PLEASE?!, posted by Normal Again on August 6, 2004, at 22:07:25
I'm glad you jumped in. Well there are a lot of people that won't be disappointed that I cut-off my relationship with them because they are not supportive. I have upcoming grief and pain groups on my calendar. See a state doc about being on the same dose of Effexor for 4 mos. next Wed. Did want to go inpatient for a week or so but they are full. You know this anxiety is killing me. I just read something very upsetting on iVillage. People with histrionic personality disorder (and I'm not sure if that's the one I have) should not be rescued. That makes me feel bad, because just last night I called CRISIS for help. You brought that to mind when you said I have to help myself. While my Dad was alive I always knew there was someone out there that loved me. I think just knowing someone loved me gave me the strength to always help myself. With him gone, the strength seems to have gone, and I really really am as weak as a newborn lamb. My computer shuts me out of my internet provider each time I read a message, so if anyone else is reading this, I'm sorry I can't get back to you right now, but it's getting dark here and since it's Sat night and all, I just want to be alone, but I will think about what help you are giving me and 'anxiously' pray for the 'arch'angels. Two mgs of Klonopin gets my hopes up and does not bring my anxiety down. I try to use visualization and breathing. I need to lie down. tks normal? again cf
--
Re: Comments » Louoicu81
Posted by corafree on August 7, 2004, at 22:35:14
In reply to Comments, posted by Louoicu81 on August 6, 2004, at 22:26:19
I know they can't help me. No, they do not support me. My father did, but he has passed away. Not even my mother has called me once. It has been six months since I lost my father, my best friend. I have four sisters and a brother that are also too busy to talk to me. They supported me when Dad was alive, but no more. I just wish I could have dissed them, before they dissed me (I know that's a horrible thing to say...sorry God). bye&tks cf
Posted by pinkeye on August 8, 2004, at 13:25:47
In reply to Re: Why you should not commit suicide - For Everyone » pinkeye, posted by corafree on August 7, 2004, at 19:54:28
Indian in not Native Indian. Indian as from the country India.
This is what one of our religious person had said to a question as whether we can commit suicide to escape from the miseries.
In our philosophy, ir is said about Re-incarnation. When one leaves this world, the body is buried or cremated here. But the Soul is then given another body appropriate to his deeds, so that he can enjoy the Heaven or suffer in Hell and later return to this world in another body. More fortunate experience the illimitable Bliss for ever in God's feet. When one commits suicide, the present body is lost and the Soul does not have another body ready to enter and enjoy Heaven or suffer in Hell or to return to this earth in another body. Soul has all the desires without the sense organs to enjoy. He is tired but he cannot sleep. He is hungry but does not have a mouth to eat. He is suffocated like an individual whose nose and mouth are tightly closed and unable to breathe. This feeling continues till such time that another body is ready which could be a long time. Imagine, we cannot tolerate suffocation for few seconds. How will it be when suffocation lasts for months or years?We are on a ship in the middle of the sea. The sea is rough so we are experiencing sea sickness which at times is very severe. Just because we cannot tolerate the sea sickness, if we jump into the sea especially the one which is filled with sharks, what would happen to us? The answer is obvious. It is like jumping from a frying pan into fire. The alternative is worse. Suicide is like this. If one thinks suicide is an easier alternative he is utterly mistaken as the suffering for him will be far greater than one can imagine though you and I cannot see it.
I hope this helps you a little bit.Pinkeye
> My father was 1/4 native American and he spent a lot of time with many tribes, helping them to farm, raise livestock, learn/educate, and basically he was this 'free spirit, good spirit' and everyone loved him. He never told me what you have just said. He knew about my many attempts. Why are you knowledgeable of this? A soul turns into a body and needs food, water, shelter??? A soul itself doesn't need these things does it?? Thank you for influencing me to take one step back. cf
Posted by corafree on August 8, 2004, at 16:59:40
In reply to Re: SORRY TO JUMP IN - BUT HELP PLEASE?!, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 6, 2004, at 22:51:54
> Cora,
>
> It sounds like the Klonopin was helping you a great deal. I would insist on getting a doc to put you back on it. You may be suffering from rebound anxiety. When I got off of Klonopin, my anxiety went through the house. Are you on antidepressants?
>
> Cora, please don't take me wrong, but you sound like you need to be hospitalized for acute suicidal ideation. You need treatment for you pain both mentally and physically. Please go to an ER and get admitted. You need treatment right away. The psych doc can get you medicated sufficiently inpatient. I don't feel you are ready for therapy at this stage. You need to be stabilized right away. Remember, this is not you Cora. This depression is a disease that came on you like it did me. Treat it as if you were bleeding to death. It is stealing your life. We want you and need you here, but you need help - ASAP. Do this as if you were taking care of your child. Don't let anyone or anything stand in the way. You need to feel safe with yourself again.Yes I was doing so much better on 6mg Klonopin a day. Now I am immobile. I will speak w/ the one daughter of mine who knows the most about my illness about the idea of hospitalization for stabilization before therapy. I did try to get in twice in the past week, but no beds. Medical docs can't help me can they...no, I know they can't. I'm afraid to go to county where there are criminals and drug abusers. Really afraid. Feedback? CF
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 9, 2004, at 0:10:19
In reply to SORRY TO JUMP IN - BUT HELP PLEASE?! « corafree, posted by Dr. Bob on August 6, 2004, at 22:42:29
Posted by corafree on August 8, 2004, at 15:52:15
In reply to Re: BPersonalityDs - Are There Any Of You Out There? » corafree, posted by BrittPark on August 6, 2004, at 10:18:25
tks britt been there, still doing that, but the psych hospitals are always full, and the normal hospitals will just send you on your way spend hrs in ERs just to be turned away I'm really straight, except for cigs, and am scared to go to a county facility where there are criminals and drug abusers Is that wrong? tks again cf
Posted by corafree on August 9, 2004, at 12:51:00
In reply to Re: SORRY TO JUMP IN - BUT HELP PLEASE?!, posted by shortelise on August 7, 2004, at 1:26:46
> Corafree, I agree with Shadows - do what you have to do to get some help. Anxiety is a monster, and I've been there, with it slavering and keeping me from being able to function.
>
> I don't know you, but from the little I've read you've been through a really awful time, so maybe you need to be extra kind to yourself. You are in pain, really hurting - this is a really, really lousy time to think about suicide. It's a time to think about keeping yourself safe until you are feeling better. The suffering person that is you needs kindness, and gentle, loving care at the moment. Please look until you find that care. If it's the ER, or a doc you can call, or a friend, a safe place to be or someone to be with, please do that.
>
> I send you what care and kindness I can throught these words and thoughts I am sending to you. Stick around - it gets better.
>
> Shorte (another "borderline")It's Monday 9,...I do have a p-doc appt. Wed. Do you think this high anxiety can be controlled by DBT w/o a benzodiazepine????? Tks for this message to start my day. Maybe if get time, let me know 'bout latter ?. cf
Posted by shortelise on August 9, 2004, at 13:17:55
In reply to You All Are Helping Me » shortelise, posted by corafree on August 9, 2004, at 12:51:00
Yes, Corafree, I do think that this therapy can help you. WIthout meds, if need be. I think meds can really help, too.
Here's the thing: if you can decide that you are going to stick with the therapy come hell or high water, and you do stick with it, your chances of feeling better are pretty good.
What therapy can do is help us understand our behaviour, where it came from, and how to cope. It feels so much better now that I understand where these feelings came from. WHen I am hit with one of those hideous waves, often now I can say, hey, there I go again, and I can stop myself. It's not horrible. It takes time and practice and work - hard emotional work, ups and downs, and a very patient therapist.
Corafree, hear this if you can: you have a choice here.
You can choose to take a chance and commit to this therapy. It's really frightening at first, because of all the ugliness we carry around inside that we're afraid to show anyone,and we think we have to show it all to get better (we don't, by the way. I figured out partway through how invalid some of the worst ugliness was and was able to deal with it alone).
Or you can choose to continue to deal with things as you have all your life. That is a choice, a definite choice.For me , the choice was clear - I couldn't function, couldn't bear my life, couldn't face it anymore, but I didn't want to kill myself either (it's a lousy option, in my opinion).
I asked my therapist over and over again, is it worth it, am I going to feel better, and he told me yes, yes. He didn't lie.
Corafree, trust a little. You are not alone, there are others like you, and a good therapist can help - if you commit to it.
All of this said, I am just another like you, I don't have any basis for what I write other than my own experience.
Hugs
ShortE
Posted by corafree on August 9, 2004, at 15:13:18
In reply to Yes, DBT, posted by shortelise on August 9, 2004, at 13:17:55
> Yes, Corafree, I do think that this therapy can help you. WIthout meds, if need be. I think meds can really help, too.
>
> Here's the thing: if you can decide that you are going to stick with the therapy come hell or high water, and you do stick with it, your chances of feeling better are pretty good.
>
> What therapy can do is help us understand our behaviour, where it came from, and how to cope. It feels so much better now that I understand where these feelings came from. WHen I am hit with one of those hideous waves, often now I can say, hey, there I go again, and I can stop myself. It's not horrible. It takes time and practice and work - hard emotional work, ups and downs, and a very patient therapist.
>
> Corafree, hear this if you can: you have a choice here.
> You can choose to take a chance and commit to this therapy. It's really frightening at first, because of all the ugliness we carry around inside that we're afraid to show anyone,and we think we have to show it all to get better (we don't, by the way. I figured out partway through how invalid some of the worst ugliness was and was able to deal with it alone).
> Or you can choose to continue to deal with things as you have all your life. That is a choice, a definite choice.
>
> For me , the choice was clear - I couldn't function, couldn't bear my life, couldn't face it anymore, but I didn't want to kill myself either (it's a lousy option, in my opinion).
>
> I asked my therapist over and over again, is it worth it, am I going to feel better, and he told me yes, yes. He didn't lie.
>
> Corafree, trust a little. You are not alone, there are others like you, and a good therapist can help - if you commit to it.
>
> All of this said, I am just another like you, I don't have any basis for what I write other than my own experience.
>
> Hugs
> ShortESo you think I should skip hospitalization, go see this part-time pdoc Wed, get my meds adjusted, and try to go forward as I am to DBT? Since I am such a mess, it was suggested I be hospitalized and I also entertained the idea. I thought I needed to be stable before beginning. Did you send me your email address, because I'm using another's computer and what I saved to my address book has somehow gone away. If you or anyone did, could pls you resend. I'd like to know where this monster inside me came from or how it erupted?! best wishes cf
Posted by terrics on August 9, 2004, at 15:27:26
In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder/Effexor/Suicidal » terrics, posted by corafree on August 7, 2004, at 20:11:38
Hi Cora, are you feeling any better? I really hope you are and that you got some help. You are right about DBT. They do like you coming in somewhat messed up. I was so-so when I started. I really like the group sessions, and the T. sessions are o.k. It feels like everyone wants to help. It is not like regular therapy. I hope you are starting soon. Your T. is usually very available by phone so you have a saftey net. luck, terrics p.s. It is nice to know I am not the only borderline on psychobabble.
Posted by corafree on August 9, 2004, at 15:45:35
In reply to Re: Why you should not commit suicide - For Everyone » corafree, posted by pinkeye on August 8, 2004, at 13:25:47
Those of India, I understand. Their belief about suicide; I believe it sounds spiritually intelligent and it follows w/ 'it's not your time' beliefs. Thank you so very much for sharing this. I wish I were well read on the Indian spirituality and culture. Can you tell me, is Zen an Indian word? cf
Posted by corafree on August 9, 2004, at 15:52:47
In reply to Re: SORRY TO JUMP IN - BUT HELP PLEASE?! » Shadowplayers721, posted by corafree on August 8, 2004, at 16:59:40
Hey all you that have shared your experiences and ideas, you have really gotten me through some rough days. I will give this part-time doc a chance this Weds. to adjust my meds and see if I feel better. I will see my therapist (the one about to begin DBT) Weds and discuss 'am I ready'. A few of you have sent me your email addresses and pls resend because I did not write them down, put them in my address book online and they disappeared (not using my computer). best wishes cf
Posted by corafree on August 9, 2004, at 16:23:55
In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder/Effexor/Suicidal » corafree, posted by terrics on August 9, 2004, at 15:27:26
Yep I am feeling better, tks to you and others here. I have also been talking with some psych provider peeps. I was also wondering where the BPDs were? I felt like the whole world was BipolarDs. They have the same B P D, ya' know. I'd like to keep in touch. Have your email. Guess we found out there are quite a few of us. Do you ever think you feel you have a touch of Attention Deficit? Talk later. Have a good one. cf
Posted by corafree on August 9, 2004, at 16:34:41
In reply to Re: SORRY TO JUMP IN - BUT HELP PLEASE?!, posted by Atticus on August 7, 2004, at 6:40:39
> Cora,
> Take it from someone who actually went through with a suicide attempt earlier this year, slashed his left wrist and forearm to tatters with a boxcutter, and ended up in a psych ward, please, please don't learn things the hard way like I did. Shadowplayers721 and shortelise are spot on with their advice. Walk into an ER, tell a crisis interventionist how you feel, and get stabilized (and safe) right away. I'm so glad now that I dialed 911 as I started to black out. My father is in total denial about my entire mental illness, but I was shocked by the support I received from my sibs, with whom I've had a pretty emotionally distant relationship. You would be amazed at the wonderful, totally unexpected surprises that life -- which can seem so unrelentingly brutal -- still holds for you. I've been to the edge of the abyss and jumped off, and it certainly wasn't the gentle passage into that good night I thought it would be. I remember so vividly telling my pdoc on the ward, "Just give me one good reason why I should want to see another sunrise." In the end, I discovered that deep down I wanted to see that sunrise a lot more than I believed or understood. I was placed in intensive outpatient therapy like you describe when I was released and helped by it incredibly. My social worker has just been so great. So hang on, hang on with all the strength you don't think you have but really do. AtticusTks! I mean to print your poem and put it in a place I can find it, when I need to remember the 'spot'. I am very depressed. No adjustment to my Effexor-XR dosage since April is a possible reason. Also I really don't have anything to take for heightened anxiety, especially as heightened as it was when I sent out the HELP message. I enjoy reading your posts. Are you writing? Lots of talented people here. I am humbled to be a small part of your lives. best wishes cf
Posted by corafree on August 9, 2004, at 16:38:42
In reply to Re: SORRY TO JUMP IN « cirrus6000, posted by Dr. Bob on August 7, 2004, at 9:08:15
> Posted by cirrus6000 on August 6, 2004, at 23:21:27
>
> hey cf contact me at cirrus6000 at yahoo dot comGot it. Will wait until next week when I am back at my place. Hard to work on this computer here. Thanks a lot! cf
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