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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tabitha on June 10, 2004, at 1:54:19
I keep trying to post about this issue that came up in group, with me having my little crush on a guy, and feeling horribly embarrassed to admit it, no matter how much everyone reassures me. But I get horribly embarrassed writing about it, so I delete it.
Anyway, just to summarize, and leave out the embarrassing parts, what it comes down to is my inner critic keeps telling me no one will ever want me, and therefore I should be horribly ashamed of wanting anyone else, of having the feelings, and especially admitting them to anyone. When I started to think about this belief, that I'm just not wantable, or not attractive, or some kind of reject of the mating game, or whatever it's saying, well the entire history of my dating life makes more sense.
The thing is, I just can't imagine what it would feel like to *not* have this belief. It's so ingrained. I think it started when I was really really young. Like it goes back to losing my dad at age 5, or maybe something with my mom, I don't know, but I remember being ashamed of my crushes in kindergarten. Even at that young age, I knew such feelings were just sources of embarrassment that had to be hidden.
And as a teen, I didn't get dates until I learned to get drunk and throw myself at guys, and I'd always think he was going to be my new boyfriend afterward, which never happened, so it was like I was fighting the voice, saying 'see? boys do want me!' but then when they didn't become my new boyfriend, it was like the voice always won. 'See? no one will want you!' And I kept acting out that terrible cycle for a long time, never picking up on the obvious social norm that getting drunk and throwing yourself at a boy is not the way to get a boyfriend.
So I grew up and stopped acting out that pattern, in fact started attracting men who seemed needy to me, and too eager to latch on, but having these needy men want me didn't change the belief one bit. I think they don't want me, they're just acting out their own desperate fear that no one will want them. So I can still remain convinced no one will want me (well at least, no one that I want will want me)
Last spring I dated a guy and it seemed we wanted each other equally. It was like I'd finally found the right balance. It was so cool. But he turned out to be not such a good choice for a long-term partner. Did that change my belief about being wantable? Well it felt like it at the time, but I think I've gone right back to believing I'll never get a date again. Or maybe I'll get a date in another decade or so, if some miracle happens, but most of my life is doomed to be loveless and sexless and romanceless, and I'll just go on having my crushes on starbucks employees. That's how my mind works.
I'm not sure what to do with this insight. I really don't get how to fight this belief, or what it would feel like to shed it. Would the world be a wonderful welcoming playground full of cute guys who want me? Or is that going a bit too far in the opposite direction?
Posted by Dinah on June 10, 2004, at 7:57:39
In reply to Core belief about being wanted, posted by tabitha on June 10, 2004, at 1:54:19
((((Tabitha))))
It sounds a whole lot like my belief that I'm imposing myself on others. That others can't possibly want me in their space. That crops up a lot with me, and was a big part of why I'm upset about what happened with my therapist this week, just as one example. A large part of my life is organized around that core belief.
I wish I could give you ideas on how to change it. Unfortunately, insight doesn't always lead directly to change. I've tried forcing myself to "be intrusive" in social situations, but willpower alone doesn't work for me.
Can you think of small ways to *do* things that will end up with results that will not be in keeping with the belief? I have the feeling that that may be the key, although I have no direct proof.
Posted by Aphrodite on June 10, 2004, at 8:46:38
In reply to Core belief about being wanted, posted by tabitha on June 10, 2004, at 1:54:19
Even though I am married, I can still relate to your situation of not fathoming I could be a blip on anyone's radar screen let alone an important part of his/her life. Like Dinah said, you can sit me down all day along and explain why I am not burdensome, unlovable, etc. and point to events in my life that caused that irrational thinking, and I will understand, but it will have absolutely no impact on how I see myself. OK, this isn't helpful for your situation, but I just wanted you to know that I understand.
What does your therapist think about this, or have you shared it?
I also know, hearkening back to your earlier discussion about energy therapy, that one of the goals of energy therapy is to reverse those long-held beliefs that you *know* are wrong but can't feel in your soul. Could your therapist use energy therapy techniques on this particular core belief?
(((Tabitha)))
Posted by partlycloudy on June 10, 2004, at 9:59:32
In reply to Core belief about being wanted, posted by tabitha on June 10, 2004, at 1:54:19
I believe that this core issue about being wanted is very common with people in therapy. When my T asked me what my core beliefs consisted of, I replied that I am not worthy (also that I'm a loser, I don't deserve the good things I have). When my depression has receded, those beliefs persist.
And, like you, it doesn't matter how much people like me it's not so, or how often my husband tells me I'm beautiful and the "best woman in the whole wide world" (he says it all in one go like a mantra); at my core I don't believe it's true. It is ingrained in us - and how do you undo a lifetime's worth of beliefs?
After my last bout with my evaporated self esteem, my T reccommended I try EMDR therapy. I've been evaluated and am starting next week - trembling in my boots - but I want so much to be better than I am now that I'm willing to try ANYTHING. There has to be a way to get past the losses in our lives to help us grow. The EMDR T has asked me to address some holistic issues in preparation for the therapy: becoming aware of energy levels around me and what I can do to operate at a higher energy level. There's a part of me that says it's a load of hooey, but I have to acknowledge that the mind-body connection is undeniable. So I'm looking at things like music, food, colours, and furniture arrangement. I kid you not.
I hope I didn't get too off topic here (I always feel well out of my depth on this board!). My intention is to say that I think we CAN change our core beliefs and that there are many different approaches to do it.
Posted by pegasus on June 10, 2004, at 10:56:23
In reply to Re: Core belief about being wanted » tabitha, posted by partlycloudy on June 10, 2004, at 9:59:32
Partlycloudy,
The things you're doing to prepare for your EMDR session sound totally reasonable to me. I firmly believe that things in our environments affect our energy levels and outlook. Especially things like food, music, colors. Those things have all contributed to feelings in my life too often to think that it's wacky. Think about how good you feel sometimes when you're wearing your favorite color, or listening to inspiring music. Those things are not trivial. They're small things, but when you add them all together, they can make a big difference, in my opinion. So, I just wanted to support you in those efforts.
pegasus
Posted by pegasus on June 10, 2004, at 11:03:06
In reply to Core belief about being wanted, posted by tabitha on June 10, 2004, at 1:54:19
Hi tabitha,
I've fought with similar thoughts in my own therapy, and I know it's super tough. I think one thing you can do with the insight you describe is to work really hard at examining and challenging those thoughts. CBT has been really helpful for me with this. I'm starting to see how those thoughts are just opinions, and that the real me is just a person like everyone else, with strengths and weaknesses. I don't have to be a superhero in order to escape from being an awful, horrible person that no one wants around. I can be in between, like most people, and really that's pretty good. People actually do like me for my better qualities, even if they don't like some of my more unfortunate qualities.
I don't know if that helps. It might seem obvious. But it took me a long time to see that in between space, and I still struggle with allowing parts of the negativity while not being overwhelmed by them. And, of course, with seeing the positive things.
I wish you a lot of luck with all of this. I think you're well on your way, just by seeing the pattern.
pegasus
Posted by tabitha on June 10, 2004, at 13:18:12
In reply to Re: Core belief about being wanted, posted by pegasus on June 10, 2004, at 11:03:06
I have my individual session today.. no doubt she'll have some ideas about what to do with it, and I'll bet I'll get some more EFT type stuff. Last week I got aromatherapy. Flaky as it sounds, the non-traditional stuff cheers me up more than hearing my endless talk. Of course I think it's all just placebo effect, but I'll take it anyway.
I'm excited about seeing this pattern, but also skeptical that it's real. After all, I've dated, I've had boyfriends, how can it be that I don't feel essentially desirable? Yet it's true. It's odd how the belief can persist in the face of evidence to the contrary. I can actually think, yeah, that guy wanted me, and that one, and they were pretty good guys, but still I'm not desirable. It's not rational. And if this belief is protecting me from hurt.. well doesn't it see that it's hurting me more than protecting me? That it's time to stop being sooo ultra-cautious? It's time to think well, maybe I'm desirable to some people.
Posted by Aphrodite on June 10, 2004, at 15:49:03
In reply to Re: Core belief about being wanted » tabitha, posted by partlycloudy on June 10, 2004, at 9:59:32
Just wanted to say something about making your energy waves higher -- a few years back, I was suicidal. I didn't even consider therapy at that time, but I did strive to do things on my own to get out of that surprising suicidal thinking that overtook me. For me, it was the small things you mentioned like music, colors, etc. One of the best things I did was find a little shop near my house that sold fresh flowers pretty cheap, and I started to pick up fresh flowers every few days and put them in vases all over my house. It made such a huge difference. I also distanced myself from the "toxic" people I could reasonably get away from, went on a news fast, and tried not to watch sad movies or listen to sad music. It really worked after a time.
Then, when I was stabalized, I went into therapy to help change the core issues not just the cosmetic, environmental ones, and became suicidal all over again. :) How strange that was! But, I'm coming out of that abyss once again, I hope.
Maybe I should up the flower intake . . .
Posted by coral on June 10, 2004, at 16:54:59
In reply to Re: Core belief about being wanted, posted by tabitha on June 10, 2004, at 13:18:12
Dear Tabitha,
Is it possible that the death of your father is the root cause? There's an old theory that in healthy families, our first loves are our parents of the opposite sex. When your dad died at your young, precious age of 5, you'd lost your first love; he left you. Clearly, I don't know your circumstances... but justs offering a theory -- which furthers itself by saying we recreate those patterns in the partners we select. Hence, you might've unconsciously wound up selecting partners who would inevitably leave you.
You also mentioned the placebo effect which fascinates me..... in fact, I'm going to start a thread on that.
Coral
Posted by tabitha on June 11, 2004, at 0:58:29
In reply to Re: Core belief to Tabitha, posted by coral on June 10, 2004, at 16:54:59
Hi Coral, yes I'm sure losing my dad is part of this pattern-- but he didn't die, they divorced. I think my mom's rejection was a big factor too. She was just emotionally closed off to me-- present but distant if you know what I mean. I remember clamoring for her attention and affection and just not getting it, and I sort of learned to hover around silently so I could be near her but not cause trouble. She was just depressed and preoccupied, and didn't engage much with us.
But whatever the reasons, now I'm supposed to untangle this mass of negative beliefs and create new healthy, adult ones.
Posted by tabitha on June 11, 2004, at 1:21:40
In reply to Re: Core belief to Tabitha » coral, posted by tabitha on June 11, 2004, at 0:58:29
She wants me to write down all my negative beliefs. That should be easy enough-- I've probably got a hundred of them.
It wasn't a great session. I was pretty down, and when I'm down I sometimes just talk out of the critical voice, and even exaggerate it. She says it comes across like I'm trying to do it for shock value, or comic effect or something. She says I have to quit indulging that voice. I can be more balanced. In fact I think I indulge the critical voice more in therapy than anywhere. I was more balanced for a few moments in the session, and she gave me all this approval. She asked me how it felt in my body when I'm saying more balanced things, but what I was really noticing is that's how to get her approval. Like a puppy being trained or something. So she wants me to stay in my higher self more often (by that I mean just me talking out of my adult self more).
Then I complained that I was in my higher self for a couple months, but it was a lot of work, and my life circumstances didn't really get better, and besides, some people actually connect with me better when I'm not in my higher self. And when I'm in my higher self it seems there's not much to talk about in therapy, so she asked if I'm afraid of losing the relationship if I get better, and I got teared up, so maybe I am afraid of that.
We had talked a lot about how I'm self-rejecting. And I asked, doesn't everyone feel undesirable and flawed deep inside? She said depressed people do, and that I'm on the extreme end of the self-rejecting scale compared to others. I didn't realize that.
She had me do a chair exercise, and wanted me to say nice things to my little girl, and tell her why she's desirable. I really couldn't do it very well. I came up with funny, smart, and creative, but somehow I wasn't even saying those things sincerely. I thought I was, but she said it didn't sound sincere. Then I said how I couldn't just go around feeling wonderful about myself, and she said I'm being black and white, that I'm thinking it's either self-rejection or narcissism, but there's gray area between them. Well, I'm not so good with gray area. Anyway, I felt bad for not being able to compliment my little girl sincerly. I thought maybe I could do it better in the privacy of my room, without an audience. But really I don't think it's going to be very easy no matter what. I've always been pretty stumped when asked to list good things about myself. I usually have to rake through my memory for compliments others have given me. Isn't that something, that I can't come up with things on my own? Doesn't seem right.
Posted by Aphrodite on June 12, 2004, at 6:08:11
In reply to Re: Now I have homework, posted by tabitha on June 11, 2004, at 1:21:40
Tabitha, maybe you should start with "charcoal" thinking:) Seriously, you have to start small.
I think all of us who suffer from severe depression find it difficult in the midst of it all to come up with good things, and I see nothing wrong with reviewing past compliments.
As for the little girl, I try to think of my own child and other children I know, and I can't fathom not being able to think of a thousand good things about them -- they are so innocent and in need of our advocacy. Do you have any children in your life? I personally am so detached from my "inner child" that I couldn't think of good qualities unless other children remind me that I was born an innocent person deserving of love. Try to visualize yourself at various times throughout your childhood -- I'll bet you can come up with not just things like "creative," but concrete examples of that creativity.
I hope you can think of good things about your adult self this weekend, too. Even if you just focus on one, that's a step into the world of charcoal thinking. I'm going to try with you since it's a pretty self-berating time for me as well.
Good luck!
Posted by tabitha on June 12, 2004, at 14:02:18
In reply to Shades of gray » tabitha, posted by Aphrodite on June 12, 2004, at 6:08:11
> I hope you can think of good things about your adult self this weekend, too. Even if you just focus on one, that's a step into the world of charcoal thinking. I'm going to try with you since it's a pretty self-berating time for me as well.
>I'd love to hear what you come up with. And thanks for some good suggestions about how to tackle this assignment.
Posted by Aphrodite on June 13, 2004, at 11:22:46
In reply to Re: Shades of gray » Aphrodite, posted by tabitha on June 12, 2004, at 14:02:18
So, it's Sunday. Did you come up with anything?
Here's the one good thing I came up with about myself (boy, did this take a long time!): I decided that I am quick on my feet. For the most part, when put on the spot or there's an immediate crisis, I can come up with a rational idea/plan on a moment's notice.
OK, I'm not putting that on a resume or setting the world on fire with that trait, but it is a start!
Posted by antigua on June 13, 2004, at 18:19:57
In reply to Re: Shades of gray » tabitha, posted by Aphrodite on June 13, 2004, at 11:22:46
I think being good in a crisis is a great asset and you should be proud of yourself. I'm good at this too, and it has come in handy in several life-saving situations. Plus, you're an awfully nice person, pls try not to forget that.
antigua
Posted by Dinah on June 13, 2004, at 20:11:21
In reply to Re: Shades of gray » tabitha, posted by Aphrodite on June 13, 2004, at 11:22:46
Oooh, what a wonderful thing to be able to say. I'm generally the freeze in a crisis and break down immediately after, so I really admire that quality.
Posted by Aphrodite on June 13, 2004, at 20:11:32
In reply to Re: Shades of gray » Aphrodite, posted by antigua on June 13, 2004, at 18:19:57
Posted by tabitha on June 14, 2004, at 12:33:38
In reply to Re: Shades of gray » tabitha, posted by Aphrodite on June 13, 2004, at 11:22:46
good compliment Aphrodite. I'm procrastinating my homework it seems.
This is the end of the thread.
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