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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Speaker on February 2, 2004, at 18:11:13
I am seen as a very confident person and have had to be most of my life due to a lot of tragedy. I find therapy to be so hard that I dread going. Today I was actually scared! I tell my T I'm frustrated and he says I have a great deal of rage! I don't like to get angry and really have never thought of myself as a angry person let alone a person full of rage. I guess I might be full of rage that I need therapy and can't just figure all this stuff out...am I going nuts or what? I am not usually an emotional person and I never cry in front of people. Today I had a hard time holding back the tears in therapy and tonight is no better. I want to quit therapy and yet I'm scared to quit and scared to keep going...go figure.
Posted by Penny on February 2, 2004, at 19:09:43
In reply to Therapy is too hard!, posted by Speaker on February 2, 2004, at 18:11:13
When I was seeing my first therapist, it was obvious (to her) that I was suppressing a great deal of intense anger. Suppressing it, ignoring it, and turning it inward - it manifested itself through my compulsive overeating and severe depression. It still does.
But, what got me started on the path to try to connect with that anger, express it in a healthy manner, and begin to let it go, was the day that she pointed out to me that I could be angry without losing control.
You're right - therapy is not easy - and that is even more true when we are working on things that are extremely difficult for us. But the fact that you *haven't* given up means that you are growing stronger, don't you think?
In my family, there was a great deal of what I called 'anger' expressed every day. There weren't many days that passed that my father wasn't yelling at someone or I wasn't losing my temper or ending up with hurt feelings or in tears, or hurting someone else's feelings (never my dad's, as I don't know that he really had feelings...). It was so disturbing, being on the receiving end of what I called my dad's 'anger' that when I left home I did everything I could to never express any anger whatsoever, whether justified or not.
But what my therapist pointed out to me was that expressing anger, especially justified anger, about some situation or someone's action didn't have to mean 'blowing my top' or, as I said, losing control - losing my temper. It didn't have to be violent. Mature adult people can, when they have learned to connect with their anger in a healthy way, express anger in a healthy way. It doesn't have to be scary, she said.
I had never thought about it that way - I always thought that anger had to equal violence and abusive behavior - whether physical or emotional. But it doesn't.
Now, I'm still, several years later, trying to learn to express my anger, when it's justified and appropriate, in a healthy way, and I am SO not there yet. I'm now with a new therapist (due to my moving) and we haven't even touched on that - I still avoid situations that make me angry, and often refuse to acknowledge anger when I am feeling it. Or I don't recognize it at first as anger. It's a hard lesson to learn, but I think that it is one that will help me overcome my depression ultimately.
Do you think, perhaps, that you have connected anger with something to be feared?
P
Posted by Racer on February 2, 2004, at 19:54:53
In reply to Re: a thought about rage... » Speaker, posted by Penny on February 2, 2004, at 19:09:43
Penny's got some really good points there, and it's not uncommon for repressed anger to be involved in depression.
The two things I'd like to emphasize are these:
1. Therapy *is* hard. It's not impossible, though, and it can be very helpful for many people. If you think you can benefit from it, and you don't feel comfortable with your life as it is, then it's probably worth sticking it out despite the discomfort.
2. It is possible to express anger without losing control. It is also possible to learn to express anger constructively. It may be *possible* to repress anger entirely, without adverse consequences, but if it is, I've never heard of it. That anger has to have a place to go, and if you don't direct it, it can take its own route.
That said, here's some just plain reassurance: this board can offer a lot of support and encouragement to help you through the process. You're not alone, and there are plenty of people pulling for you. Secondly, just learning to recognise my own anger was by far the most terrifying and difficult part of the process. I'm not all the way there, yet, and maybe I never will be, but it's all been much easier since getting past that first step.
Best luck, Speaker.
Posted by antigua on February 2, 2004, at 21:04:57
In reply to Re: a thought about rage... » Speaker, posted by Penny on February 2, 2004, at 19:09:43
Thank you Penny for that, it was very helpful.
My problem (or one of them, anyway) is that no matter how my T tries to convince me otherwise, I really believe that I will lose control if I let the anger out. I know that's not rational, I have many more (and better) coping skills than I did as a child, but even as an adult I am so very afraid that if I let it out, I will lose control.
I'm working on it, but it was good to hear that someone believes the anger can be expressed w/o losing control.
antigua
Posted by Racer on February 2, 2004, at 21:59:01
In reply to Re: a thought about rage... » Penny, posted by antigua on February 2, 2004, at 21:04:57
Ain't it ironic that this is such a common theme? I think we're mostly women, too, which doesn't surprise me at all. There are societal rules against women expressing anger, and I think that that has a lot to do with why more women are dxed with depression than men. Not that men don't get depressed as often as women, but that many men have learned to express their feelings of anger through approved outlets like team sports, or unapproved outlets like violent acts.
For me, if it's any help, I'm learning to express anger better, but I can't handle the idea of Expressing Anger. I'm breaking the larger concept into smaller bits, and working on them one at a time. Right now, I can express anger to someone it's not directed towards -- which was a big step for me, and I'm not rock solid on it yet -- but I can't quite express anger-in-the-moment to the person who's triggered it. Fortunately, my husband is someone I feel as if I can trust not to abandon me for being angry with him. Mostly.
It's a long road, one step at a time, I guess.
Posted by Dinah on February 2, 2004, at 22:09:25
In reply to Therapy is too hard!, posted by Speaker on February 2, 2004, at 18:11:13
Yes, it is hard sometimes. And I too have trouble expressing rage. I do ok with righteous indignation. And my therapist says I manage rage quite well sometimes now. :) But it took a long time and a lot of trust in him.
Hmmm.... But on the other hand, biofeedback guy told me I had a lot of rage, when the truth was I was just mad at *him* for being a jerk. And I was right to be mad. The full of rage thing in that instance was just his ducking responsibility.
How is your relationship with your therapist?
Posted by Speaker on February 2, 2004, at 23:18:49
In reply to Re: Therapy is too hard! » Speaker, posted by Dinah on February 2, 2004, at 22:09:25
Dinah,
Thanks, the new T. is fine but I can't say i agree with him. I also feel free to express anger with rightous indignation! However, I have always felt free to express my anger...especially in both marriages. Before my 1'st husband died I was always fighting battles with hospitals, ins. co. and just stupid people. I don't see myself with pent up rage. I guess that's what the puzzle is. Where did he come up with that...I was to shocked to ask him today but believe me I will. My old T of many years never told me that but then I had been mad at him several times and he never felt I held back ANY rage :). Thanks for letting me vent!
Posted by Speaker on February 2, 2004, at 23:25:33
In reply to Re: Therapy is too hard! » Dinah, posted by Speaker on February 2, 2004, at 23:18:49
Guys,
Thanks for the input! I guess I was shocked that my new T would suggest I have rage when he doesn't know me that well. I think he is wrong...I have a lot of things but rage isn't what I would say is one of them. I will see him on Fri. and I have written a letter and put a lot of questions in it already. I usually don't do that but this is a big puzzle to me. I had been with my old T 8 years and he saw me angry several times...he never suggested I had rage I hadn't delt with. I think this T is off base but I am willing to explore it. I guess I was stunned and ANGRY :) that he came to that conclusion without explaining where he drew the conclusion from...of course our time was up!
Posted by DaisyM on February 3, 2004, at 1:01:03
In reply to Therapy is too hard!, posted by Speaker on February 2, 2004, at 18:11:13
I know it is. So don't hold back the tears, let them come. I can tell you are hurting and I wish I knew what to say to take away the pain. I know that opening up is suppose to be the first step to letting go but that first step is such a challenge. And, you are doing it with someone new! You are brave...
How about not struggling with this tonight and tomorrow. Don't argue with him in your head for days. Just put it away to explore later. In the meantime, I'm eating lots and lots of cream-of-wheat (today's session was excrutiating, I can't even post about it yet) and your eating???? What is your soothing food? Or, are you a bath-type person? Some people like movies, I love books. I finished "Running with Scissors" hilarious and sad and now I'm onto "The Dive from Clausen's Pier" which is pretty good.
It is getting late here, and it is raining. It is very quiet, so I can hear the drops splashing outside. I keep thinking that the rain can wash away the pain...hey, that rhymes! Holding you in my thoughts...
Daisy
Posted by lookdownfish on February 3, 2004, at 7:04:53
In reply to Re: a thought about rage... » Speaker, posted by Penny on February 2, 2004, at 19:09:43
Penny - thanks so much for your post. I found it really helpful, and its making me think more clearly about how and why I am afraid of conflict and anger, and about depression as rage turned inward against oneself. how smart you are :)
Posted by gardenergirl on February 3, 2004, at 7:08:04
In reply to Rage!, posted by Speaker on February 2, 2004, at 23:25:33
Speaker,
This sounds like a good plan. I always invite my clients to disagree with me. Some do it better than others. I have a couple of clients who, if they did disagree at some point and tell me, would be showing great progress!Good luck in your next session. I feel confident you and your new T will be able to explore this so that you both have a better understanding.
Take care,
gg
Posted by Penny on February 3, 2004, at 8:06:34
In reply to Re: a thought about rage... » Penny, posted by lookdownfish on February 3, 2004, at 7:04:53
> how smart you are :)
No - how smart my former T is! Ha!Glad I could be of some help.
P
Posted by Racer on February 3, 2004, at 12:04:57
In reply to Rage!, posted by Speaker on February 2, 2004, at 23:25:33
I had to laugh when I read this, because writing a letter about it is the sort of thing I do. Works pretty well for me, although I laugh at myself for doing it. It's nice to know I'm not alone in that sort of thing.
I've only been with my T for a little more than a month, and last week is when I first started to trust her a bit, so I can't say too much about it, really. Last week, I was in more than a bit of a crisis state, and called her to ask for a second appintment. To prepare for the appointment, I wrote an oral presentation outline to keep myself on track. I showed it to her at the end, and she laughed at me, too. Said she hadn't written a full page, single spaced outline for presentations even in grad school.
Ah, well, we all do what we need to do, right? I'm glad you're going to explore whether your T is right about you or not. Sometimes questions don't need answers, they just need to be asked...
Posted by Speaker on February 3, 2004, at 14:44:10
In reply to Re: Rage! » Speaker, posted by Racer on February 3, 2004, at 12:04:57
Well, I am a speaker and I do the outline form in a heartbeat! Although, I have never done it for therapy :). I am wondering if maybe my T meant I was full of rage about having to change T's...now that might be true. I think I was a BIT defensive since he is new and my old T never brought up anything like that. I guess Fri. will be interesting. I will at least know where I want to start and that is alway difficult for me. I am also amazed how much this Babbling and everyone's input has helped me. Thanks!
Posted by Racer on February 3, 2004, at 15:15:48
In reply to Re: Rage! » Racer, posted by Speaker on February 3, 2004, at 14:44:10
Yeah, I've noticed that the threads on these boards do influence the starting places for my T sessions. For now, I guess it's a good thing.
This is the end of the thread.
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