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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Maxime on August 2, 2006, at 15:04:52
What is wrong with my body? Why can't I get to my low again? I guess I have messed up my metabolism... I only have myself to blame.
I want to weigh 70 pounds again. I MUST! I will settle for 73 pounds but not an ounce more. I just have to try harder ...
Why won't my weight budge? I feel like I am being tortured.
I will get there somehow.
Maxime ... the fat pig.
Posted by Racer on August 3, 2006, at 0:40:33
In reply to Trigger - I NEED to get to my low weight, posted by Maxime on August 2, 2006, at 15:04:52
Ugh. I hate to say it, but I can empathize with you in an unhealthy sense... I wish I could get my weight back down, although I'd settle for a good deal more than my lowest.
I think.
I'm feeling so overwhelmed with life, and I keep coming back to, 'Ah, but I could handle this if only I were thin again...' I know that's part of what's triggering me. (That, and I'm a bit depressed again...)
Do you know what's triggering you? Can you think of what need you're trying to fill? Any chance of finding some help, maybe a support group?
Good luck.
Posted by Maxime on August 3, 2006, at 19:54:39
In reply to Re: Trigger - I NEED to get to my low weight » Maxime, posted by Racer on August 3, 2006, at 0:40:33
> Ugh. I hate to say it, but I can empathize with you in an unhealthy sense... I wish I could get my weight back down, although I'd settle for a good deal more than my lowest.
>
> I think.
>
> I'm feeling so overwhelmed with life, and I keep coming back to, 'Ah, but I could handle this if only I were thin again...' I know that's part of what's triggering me. (That, and I'm a bit depressed again...)
>
> Do you know what's triggering you? Can you think of what need you're trying to fill? Any chance of finding some help, maybe a support group?
>
> Good luck.Hey Racer.
I think it's because my life is a shambles. I am not working ... can't find any. I am in debt (up to my eyeballs). I am depressed and suicidal. Suddenly I feel like I am TOO MUCH. I take up too much space.
Also my pdoc hasn't been HEARING what I am telling him. Sometimes I think I starve myself so that I can show my pain. If I get thin enough maybe he will see how much pain I am in.
I haven't been eating much except raw carrots during the day and a few mouthfuls of yoghurt. I am abusing ephedra. I am abusing laxatives (as a form of self-injury). Am I losing weight? Nope. Metabolism is so messed up. So it FREAKS me out to think that I am eating less than 200 calories a day and not losing. WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF I ATE????
Support groups are bad for me ... I WANT TO BE THE THINEST. I get triggered very easily.
I'm holding on this eating disorder so tight. I've been exercising like a mad woman! Well I am mad ... in both senses of the term.
I'm sorry you are feeling this way as well.
So many people die from eating disorders ... but it's usually from suicide. I can see why ... it drives you mad.
Maxime
Posted by Racer on August 3, 2006, at 20:27:03
In reply to Re: Trigger - I NEED to get to my low weight » Racer, posted by Maxime on August 3, 2006, at 19:54:39
> > > So many people die from eating disorders ... but it's usually from suicide. I can see why ... it drives you mad.
>
> MaximeNot necessarily, Maxie. You know as well -- better? -- than I do that the laxatives and the Ephedra can both be the cause of death, as well as starvation itself. I don't want you to see an "out" by saying it's mostly suicide that causes death by ED. You could be taking yourself there already.
Are you taking any meds at all? Could be you've got some help with the metabolism...
And I know what you mean about hoping that you can "show" how bad you're feeling. I know that I ate less and less and less, and ached that NO ONE seemed to see. (My mother saw, my husband tried not to see and mostly succeeded. My doctors? Well, my former pdoc -- Dr EyeCandy, remember him? -- wrote in his notes that I was a "40y/o WN/WF." Dunno who his pt was, but she was my age and race... Wonder how fat he meant when he wrote "well nourished.") Even when I finally TOLD the next pdoc about it, I felt as though there must not be anything wrong with me, since no one else brought it up... He'd think I was making it up, since he didn't notice any problems... (Mind you, my BMI at the time was under 14.5. Guess I was making that up, too...)
I know you don't want to hear this, but...
Have you tried using your voice to speak with? (Man, what a cliche!) I know you say that he doesn't seem to be listening to you. Have you tried saying, "Dr, I think you're trying to help me, but it doesn't feel as though you're hearing me. What has to happen for us to solve this problem together?" Is this your old faithful pdoc? Or a newer guy? If it's the older guy, maybe telling him you've got a lot of trust built up for him, but you're feeling it slipping away and don't like that? See if he'll be honest with you.
I'm wondering if this is a sign of burn out, though? I know you're devilishly hard to treat, because you have such nasty reactions to so many drugs. That's got to be hard for doctors, and I wonder if that triggers the time honored tradition of Blaming The patient? It's not right, it's not helpful, it's not fair, it's not anything good -- but it also happens. {sigh} [Emulates a Hoover] when it does...
Has your pdoc ever coordinated with a GP about helping with some of your reactions? I can't believe there's no way to control the lactation, for instance, at least long enough to get you stabilized and get you some relief.
You won't like hearing this, Maxie, but there's still hope. After a really horrendous experience with a physical therapist two months ago, I was resigned to hurting forever. Then I got another referral, and sent to another PT. This time, I told the guy what happened with the other PT, and he kinda laughed at it: "He said there was nothing he could do? *g* There's PLENTY I can do..." (Which means I'm in a lot of pain right now, by the way...) I know it's so much harder in Canada, and I don't now how to suggest you go about trying to get better help, but someone out there might be like my new Physical Terrorist, you know? Someone out there might be able and willing to look at you with new, kind eyes -- and use that new perspective to help you.
(If ED groups are a problem, how about Overeaters Anonymous? They're often recommended for EDs, and you'd likely be one of the thinner members...)
xoxo
Posted by Maxime on August 3, 2006, at 22:14:30
In reply to Re: Trigger - I NEED to get to my low weight » Maxime, posted by Racer on August 3, 2006, at 20:27:03
I won't die from starvation. I'm too fat. I already survived a cardiac arrest years ago from laxie abuse (I was in the hospital at the time).
Last time I saw my pdoc I said to him "Dr. R., I know you are listening to me, but I don't think you are hearing what am I telling you." I was telling him how I was ready to give up ... how suicidal I was. I told him I had a plan ... isn't he supposed to take action? He told me "that isn't an option". WTF? Of course it's an option ... it's always an option.
I am not on an antidepressant. I'm on a mood stabiliser - trileptal. And I take Klonopin which I am trying to get off of, but it will take a long time.
BTW, I have a BITCH for a physio-therapist. I think she loves to inflict pain on me. And you know what ... I feel like I deserve it. So I just put with it. But god, she is a BITCH!
There is no other pdoc for me to see.
I tried to make an appointment with my GP but she is on holidays until mid August.
My pdoc doesn't really believe in meds ... well he does, but he prefers that his patients do not have to use them. Read my post in Psychobabble about "my psychiatrist ..." it will make you laugh ( I cry when I think about it).
Well I am really crying now so I will sign off now.
Thanks for responding. I see my pdoc next Friday ... maybe he will have some new ideas ... bit I hope they are not as flaky as his last one.
Hugs, Maxime
> >
> > Maxime
>
> Not necessarily, Maxie. You know as well -- better? -- than I do that the laxatives and the Ephedra can both be the cause of death, as well as starvation itself. I don't want you to see an "out" by saying it's mostly suicide that causes death by ED. You could be taking yourself there already.
>
> Are you taking any meds at all? Could be you've got some help with the metabolism...
>
> And I know what you mean about hoping that you can "show" how bad you're feeling. I know that I ate less and less and less, and ached that NO ONE seemed to see. (My mother saw, my husband tried not to see and mostly succeeded. My doctors? Well, my former pdoc -- Dr EyeCandy, remember him? -- wrote in his notes that I was a "40y/o WN/WF." Dunno who his pt was, but she was my age and race... Wonder how fat he meant when he wrote "well nourished.") Even when I finally TOLD the next pdoc about it, I felt as though there must not be anything wrong with me, since no one else brought it up... He'd think I was making it up, since he didn't notice any problems... (Mind you, my BMI at the time was under 14.5. Guess I was making that up, too...)
>
> I know you don't want to hear this, but...
>
> Have you tried using your voice to speak with? (Man, what a cliche!) I know you say that he doesn't seem to be listening to you. Have you tried saying, "Dr, I think you're trying to help me, but it doesn't feel as though you're hearing me. What has to happen for us to solve this problem together?" Is this your old faithful pdoc? Or a newer guy? If it's the older guy, maybe telling him you've got a lot of trust built up for him, but you're feeling it slipping away and don't like that? See if he'll be honest with you.
>
> I'm wondering if this is a sign of burn out, though? I know you're devilishly hard to treat, because you have such nasty reactions to so many drugs. That's got to be hard for doctors, and I wonder if that triggers the time honored tradition of Blaming The patient? It's not right, it's not helpful, it's not fair, it's not anything good -- but it also happens. {sigh} [Emulates a Hoover] when it does...
>
> Has your pdoc ever coordinated with a GP about helping with some of your reactions? I can't believe there's no way to control the lactation, for instance, at least long enough to get you stabilized and get you some relief.
>
> You won't like hearing this, Maxie, but there's still hope. After a really horrendous experience with a physical therapist two months ago, I was resigned to hurting forever. Then I got another referral, and sent to another PT. This time, I told the guy what happened with the other PT, and he kinda laughed at it: "He said there was nothing he could do? *g* There's PLENTY I can do..." (Which means I'm in a lot of pain right now, by the way...) I know it's so much harder in Canada, and I don't now how to suggest you go about trying to get better help, but someone out there might be like my new Physical Terrorist, you know? Someone out there might be able and willing to look at you with new, kind eyes -- and use that new perspective to help you.
>
> (If ED groups are a problem, how about Overeaters Anonymous? They're often recommended for EDs, and you'd likely be one of the thinner members...)
> xoxo
Posted by jealibeanz on August 4, 2006, at 20:14:01
In reply to Re: Trigger - I NEED to get to my low weight » Racer, posted by Maxime on August 3, 2006, at 22:14:30
You mean he completely dismissed the fact that you said you are considering suicide? The first thing he needs to do is further pursue the issue. Ask you about specific symptoms and plans.
He needs to make sure that you are living with someone and have someone to check up on you at least daily. Then he needs to either hospitalize you if you seem to have a definite plan that's about to be put in action, or refer you to a therapist. And when this is all done, he needs to document every step he's taken to try and prevent suicide.
His job could be in serious jeopardy without such proper practice. You can never ignore a suicide threat, even if you don't feel it will actually happen. This doc doesn't even seem like he cares about his own safety and practice enough to do this. It's extremely careless and irresponsible. He could be sued for malpractice by your family if you ever, god forbid, went through with a plan.
Is he helping you at all? If he doesn't even care to take care of himself, I question whether or not he's thorough with you.
Posted by Maxime on August 5, 2006, at 17:14:39
In reply to Re: Trigger - I NEED to get to my low weight, posted by jealibeanz on August 4, 2006, at 20:14:01
Yup, he dismissed it and told me it wasn't an option. Not very bright since I have a history of attempts.
He's 82 years old .... I don't think he is worried about his practice.
I don't even care any more. I should just stop seeing him.
maxime
> You mean he completely dismissed the fact that you said you are considering suicide? The first thing he needs to do is further pursue the issue. Ask you about specific symptoms and plans.
>
> He needs to make sure that you are living with someone and have someone to check up on you at least daily. Then he needs to either hospitalize you if you seem to have a definite plan that's about to be put in action, or refer you to a therapist. And when this is all done, he needs to document every step he's taken to try and prevent suicide.
>
> His job could be in serious jeopardy without such proper practice. You can never ignore a suicide threat, even if you don't feel it will actually happen. This doc doesn't even seem like he cares about his own safety and practice enough to do this. It's extremely careless and irresponsible. He could be sued for malpractice by your family if you ever, god forbid, went through with a plan.
>
> Is he helping you at all? If he doesn't even care to take care of himself, I question whether or not he's thorough with you.
Posted by Racer on August 6, 2006, at 11:21:19
In reply to Re: Trigger - I NEED to get to my low weight » jealibeanz, posted by Maxime on August 5, 2006, at 17:14:39
Maybe you should stop seeing him, Maxie, but don't dismiss the history you have with him. It does count.
Even if you don't always trust him to be on top of the latest and greatest, don't you think it's nice that he'd take care of you in more human terms?
And maybe he's not reacting to your suicidal ideation because he knows you well enough to see something that makes him trust that you've still got some oomph left? Maybe he sees something that tells him this isn't going to be an attempt time for you? Or maybe he's trying not to react, because he's afraid you'll get into a habit of threatening suicide when you're upset, instead of working with your treatment team? Who knows. Maybe he was just having a bad day.
Or, of course, it could be that you should start thinking about looking for another pdoc...
Dunno. I just know that the history you've got with this guy makes me think it would be sad for you to dismiss all of it over a bad patch. Make sense?
xoox
Posted by Maxime on August 15, 2006, at 16:23:04
In reply to Re: Trigger - I NEED to get to my low weight » Maxime, posted by Racer on August 6, 2006, at 11:21:19
I missed an appointment with him last week ... it was NOT intentional. I feel so awful. Someone could have used that time. I called to reschedule ... he hasn't called back. Do you think he is punishing me? I hope not.
I don't think he knows me well enough to know if or when I am going to try to kill myself.
If he will see me again, I will go back. If he punishes me for missing my appointment ... which I have never done before EVER, then I guess I don't have a doctor anymore.
My eating disorder has escalated. I hope it kills me.
Maxime
> Maybe you should stop seeing him, Maxie, but don't dismiss the history you have with him. It does count.
>
> Even if you don't always trust him to be on top of the latest and greatest, don't you think it's nice that he'd take care of you in more human terms?
>
> And maybe he's not reacting to your suicidal ideation because he knows you well enough to see something that makes him trust that you've still got some oomph left? Maybe he sees something that tells him this isn't going to be an attempt time for you? Or maybe he's trying not to react, because he's afraid you'll get into a habit of threatening suicide when you're upset, instead of working with your treatment team? Who knows. Maybe he was just having a bad day.
>
> Or, of course, it could be that you should start thinking about looking for another pdoc...
>
> Dunno. I just know that the history you've got with this guy makes me think it would be sad for you to dismiss all of it over a bad patch. Make sense?
>
> xoox
Posted by MidnightBlue on August 18, 2006, at 22:05:40
In reply to Re: Trigger - I NEED to get to my low weight » Racer, posted by Maxime on August 15, 2006, at 16:23:04
Maxime,
Don't give up!
MB
Posted by ElaineM on August 19, 2006, at 18:20:21
In reply to Re: Trigger - I NEED to get to my low weight » Racer, posted by Maxime on August 15, 2006, at 16:23:04
Maxime, I'm so sorry that you're not doing well. I've been where you are before. I didn't find my way back out willingly, but I'm "better" now, in terms of the AN. I know it means nothing when you're inside of it so deeply, but I just thought I'd say it anyways. I remember I always wanted to start screaming when people would try to cheer me up, when I was sure that they'd never before felt even half as low as I did then. That's part of the anorexia though -- apathy, panic, self-hate and sadly, suicidal thoughts. For me, I even got "starvation rages". I'm usually painfully quite, but I'd just explode out of nowhere like I was possessed.
I know you said that you're "too fat" to die from starvation, but it's not the direct lack of food that results in people dying. It's the hidden side-effects -- the malnutrition, the electrolyte imbalances. I know you probably already know this. By the time I was dangerously low I had already read like every single bio, study, piece of literature on eating disorders I could find. I just get worried hearing that you've already had heart trouble. I don't want you to get sicker. I don't even have to know you -- my heart breaks for everyone who suffers from ED's. It's so hard. So lonely. So sad. I never want anyone going through it.
Have you tried inpatient, or Day hospital programs? While they didn't help me keep weight on permanently, and though the psychological improvement was a slow process, it let me be a part of an environment of total acceptence and understanding. I was always the smallest and one of the youngest in the adult programs, and so I know it's hard to not want to wear that distinction as a badge of honor (at least, that's how I was) -- it's so ingrained as part of the disorder. But that's where you come in contact with professionals who are the experts -- will know more than regular T's. And they have more experience with meds, and medical complications. When I was sickest, I felt like anything good in me was stone, that I was already dead. It was the care and acceptance from the staff (and even fellow patients) that brought me back to life -- brought my heart back into it. And sometimes being that little bit emotionally stronger, is enough to let you work a little more on the physical recovery, and then eventually, the psychological one.
Even if you don't do something that intensive, there is still hope. Is your T and ED specialist? I know it's such a difficult diagnosis for less-experienced professionals to understand. And just so you know, I believe you 100% when you say you're suicidal -- I take you seriously. That's why I'm so scared for you. So concerned. I'm sorry you feel so unheard by your T. Many other docs would take your statement seriously -- even the ER (if you felt that unsafe).
It's mid-August now, is your physician back yet? Maybe she'll have some new ideas about adding to all your treatments.
Please keep trying. You deserve some relief -- it will come eventually, I truly believe that. You just have to keep pushing through h*ll, even when you think you don't want to anymore. You don't deserve despair or pain, from a disorder or a person. And I'm not just saying this because I'm healthy, content and free of sadness now -- I'm not at all. I only want you to believe that ED's are improvable conditions -- even just a little progress can make a difference. Have you ever revealed to anyone where you are? Though it would be scary for me, I'd tell you where I was always treated if you were close (and if you were interested in it). Or even some of the places I read about and was considering. I'm sorry if it seems like I'm ponificating -- I just wish I could help more.
Safe hugs (if you're okay with that), and please don't give in yet. Let us know how your next meeting with your T (and your Doctor) go.
Thinking of you, Elaine
Posted by Maxime on August 22, 2006, at 17:16:54
In reply to Re: Trigger - I NEED to get to my low weight » Maxime, posted by MidnightBlue on August 18, 2006, at 22:05:40
> Maxime,
>
> Don't give up!
>
> MB*cries*
Posted by Maxime on August 22, 2006, at 17:23:01
In reply to Re: Trigger - I NEED to get to my low weight, posted by ElaineM on August 19, 2006, at 18:20:21
((( Elaine ))) Thank you. I'm in the Great White North. We don't have ED treatment places like in the U.S.
All I have is a psychiatrist. He doesn't understand eating disorders. And no, I can't get another psychiatrist. I would have to wait for over a year ... at least. I don't have a therapist because I can't afford one. I have seen a T on a sliding fee scale, but she wasn't an ED specialist. I've been in a regular psych unit for my ED ... where I was fed, and then I lost the weight when I left.
I am not underweight now. I'm truly not. Lord knows I'm trying.
I'm too old for this! I hate it. I'm tired of it. Yet I can't release myself from its grasp.
Thanks for your post.
Maxime
Posted by ElaineM on September 2, 2006, at 17:08:24
In reply to Re: Trigger - I NEED to get to my low weight » ElaineM, posted by Maxime on August 22, 2006, at 17:23:01
Maxime,
I'm thinking of you still. How is September finding you? Are you feeling as bad?
((((max))))) Hope you're okay
EL[you don't need to respond if you're not up to it, just wanted you to know :-) ]
This is the end of the thread.
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