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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by liliths on December 14, 2006, at 12:52:02
In reply to Oxytocin Spray for Panic Attacks » liliths, posted by Quintal on December 14, 2006, at 8:34:50
Hi Q
I definitely am beginning to believe in some master plan against me LOL
the surgeon only did an evaluation! I have to already be on antibiotics before the surgery and his first available appointment is not until Feb 12! sheesh... my Review Board debacle is a month earlier than that! My dentist was misinformed when they told me this guy would do the eval and then go ahead with a procedure
so I get the pleasure of living with the infection until then - he told me to fill the scripts for antibiotics and ibuprofen (his idea of a pain killer - though he also gave me a script for darvoset for "severe pain" only) if I needed them and to let him know to re-write them by the time the surgery rolls around. Even then it turns out there's not even a guarantee that once he 'opens me up', he won't discover a crack and have to pull the damn thing instead.
in the meantime, I can't find the oxycotin as a nasal spray for sale anywhere on the web! Weird. The Liquid Trust has alcohol in it... I did snort a little and it burned some - I'm not sure whether spraying alcohol up my nose is ok or not. Would you happen to know? I certainly don't want to do any more damage to myself (except the idea of a bullet to the head is beginning to look quite enticing)
thanks for the link. It was interesting
the stupid liquid trust isn't even meant to be sprayed - it's meant to be worn, but except for the alcohol, the only other ingredients listed were distilled water and oxycontin.
sigh.....
thanks for letting me rant
I do appreciate you :)
namaste,
lilith> http://www.chemgasm.com/oxytocin-for-panic-attacks-or-oxytocin-7
>
> Hi Liliths, you bought the Liquid Trust oxytocin spray? I think that is intended for use by business people to spray into the salesroom. You can still place the spray head under a nostril and sort of waft it into your airways - clumsy I know, but it does still work according to the guy on the website above.
>
> An alternative method would be to buy a nasal spray of decongestant like Sudofed or something and empty the contents, clean the bottle and fill with oxytocin liquid and voila! You have an oxytocin nasal spray. Just hope they haven't put fragrance in it or something.
>
> Probably best to wait until you've recovered from the dental surgery before taking the Kratom - it could interact with the extra pain meds, though Kratom is an analgesic in itself.
>
> Good luck with the dental surgery - in fact the oxytocin may be good to calm you in the surgery?
>
> Q
Posted by EERRIICC on December 14, 2006, at 16:42:01
In reply to Re: Oxytocin Spray for Panic Attacks » Quintal, posted by liliths on December 14, 2006, at 12:52:02
I have been curious about Oxytocin spray for some time. I have simply kept putting off buying it. It is relatively hard to find unless you are considering a sex change and see it as an essential hormone...
Posted by EERRIICC on December 14, 2006, at 16:42:12
In reply to Re: Oxytocin Spray for Panic Attacks » Quintal, posted by liliths on December 14, 2006, at 12:52:02
I have been curious about Oxytocin spray for some time. I have simply kept putting off buying it. It is relatively hard to find unless you are considering a sex change and see it as an essential hormone...
Posted by Quintal on December 14, 2006, at 19:18:23
In reply to Re: Oxytocin Spray for Panic Attacks » Quintal, posted by liliths on December 14, 2006, at 12:52:02
I'm thinking you could maybe use the oxytocin spray as a chemical weapon of sorts. You know, like spray it into the room where your case will be heard a few minutes before the hearing starts, perhaps spraying the judge's seat? Also, how about polluting the enemy's drinking water with a dash of Liquid Trust (so long as there are no pregnant females on the panel of course)? At the very least you could pretend to be dousing yourself with perfume or something right outside the entrance to the hearing chamber - perhaps showering the judge and opposition with it as the walk past?
I think you could use the spray sublingually as you suggested. I remember my grandma having a 'heart' spray that she used under her tongue so it is an effective route. I suspect the alcohol would irritate your nasal passages, but probably wouldn't do any serious harm.
It seems that oxytocin nasal spray is available on prescription. I wonder if you could wrangle a script from your pdoc if you can convince him that the sublingual spray has been effective? If he's a progressive pdoc he may be interested in using it for some of his panic patients?
>so I get the pleasure of living with the infection until then - he told me to fill the scripts for antibiotics and ibuprofen (his idea of a pain killer - though he also gave me a script for darvoset for "severe pain" only) if I needed them and to let him know to re-write them by the time the surgery rolls around. Even then it turns out there's not even a guarantee that once he 'opens me up', he won't discover a crack and have to pull the damn thing instead.
>Ibuprofen is a weak analgesic, but I was surprised to find that when I was in hospital they gave me paracetamol (acetaminophen) and ibuprofen and it worked where tramadol had failed! I don't know why, but it's true.
I guess you're free to try the Kratom now? Did you get some capsules in that trial pack?
Q
Posted by liliths on December 15, 2006, at 11:23:35
In reply to Re: Oxytocin Spray for Panic Attacks » liliths, posted by Quintal on December 14, 2006, at 19:18:23
Hi Q
they suggest wearing it and everyone around you will be nice to you so I guess I'll pour the stuff on LOL
yes, I got kratom capsules - there's 5 of them. What should I do? swallow them with something hot?
I spoke to the dept of health today - turns out I have to have everything to them by next week - they burn a cd of my case to give to the review board
my pdoc's supposed to be writing a letter and I've written one - mostly stating my feelings about PRN's overstepping their legal bounds - I had someone read it and they thought it was good but I may still trim it.. not sure
I do say I'll comply if that's their final decision but I think I make a good case for them to at least take a closer look at PRN for the future. I'll post the letter (or I can babblemail it you), if you'd be willing to read it
thanks as always for staying in touch with me through this... it really means a lot.
I think I'll go put a couple of drops of my liquid trust (what a name!) under my tongue and see if I calm down. Though maybe I should save it for the Review board... the bottle's pretty small :)
hope you are doing well
namaste,
lilith> I'm thinking you could maybe use the oxytocin spray as a chemical weapon of sorts. You know, like spray it into the room where your case will be heard a few minutes before the hearing starts, perhaps spraying the judge's seat? Also, how about polluting the enemy's drinking water with a dash of Liquid Trust (so long as there are no pregnant females on the panel of course)? At the very least you could pretend to be dousing yourself with perfume or something right outside the entrance to the hearing chamber - perhaps showering the judge and opposition with it as the walk past?
>
> I think you could use the spray sublingually as you suggested. I remember my grandma having a 'heart' spray that she used under her tongue so it is an effective route. I suspect the alcohol would irritate your nasal passages, but probably wouldn't do any serious harm.
>
> It seems that oxytocin nasal spray is available on prescription. I wonder if you could wrangle a script from your pdoc if you can convince him that the sublingual spray has been effective? If he's a progressive pdoc he may be interested in using it for some of his panic patients?
>
> >so I get the pleasure of living with the infection until then - he told me to fill the scripts for antibiotics and ibuprofen (his idea of a pain killer - though he also gave me a script for darvoset for "severe pain" only) if I needed them and to let him know to re-write them by the time the surgery rolls around. Even then it turns out there's not even a guarantee that once he 'opens me up', he won't discover a crack and have to pull the damn thing instead.
> >
>
> Ibuprofen is a weak analgesic, but I was surprised to find that when I was in hospital they gave me paracetamol (acetaminophen) and ibuprofen and it worked where tramadol had failed! I don't know why, but it's true.
>
> I guess you're free to try the Kratom now? Did you get some capsules in that trial pack?
>
> Q
Posted by Quintal on December 15, 2006, at 13:44:23
In reply to Re: Oxytocin Spray for Panic Attacks » Quintal, posted by liliths on December 15, 2006, at 11:23:35
Hi Liliths,
Yes, best swallow the Kratom capsules with a glass of water, preferably on an empty stomach to get the full effect.
I'd be happy to read the letter. Maybe best to babblemail it than post in a public domain?
I'm interested to hear what effect the oxytocin has on your nervous tension. I think only a small amount is supposed to be used at a time. It sounds like it would be good to have around for those nights when I can't sleep at all.
Q
Posted by liliths on December 15, 2006, at 14:36:47
In reply to Re: Oxytocin Spray for Panic Attacks » liliths, posted by Quintal on December 15, 2006, at 13:44:23
Hi Q
thank you... I'll babblemail you the letter. I'll wait until I get the letter from my pdoc before making final revisions but all the basics will stay so feel free to offer suggestions... or not. I'm just REALLY appreciative you're willing to read the damn thing :)
This is one of those experiences where I haven't had anyone beyond this board who could even remotely understand my experience.
I think I even lifted passages from posts you wrote in my letter LOL
my therapist has been increasingly unavailable since Hurricane Katrina and it looks like he's going to be cutting his practice way back as he becomes more involved in this new direction.
I think about all the things I 'could' be doing during this time and realize I'm basically killing myself... it feels more and more inevitable these days - I've really let myself deteriorate and it scares me.
I've been on my own during a time I really needed not to be.. left to my own devices, without even having an appointment as a reason to go out, my demons have become very strong
I realize that even if and when I get my license, I am so far removed from it now, I honestly won't have a clue how to function. PRN stole my life - or rather, I let the experience destroy me... but is it fair that I blame myself for reacting this way to something so horrific??
you see? I drive myself crazy with my incessant blather LOL
but it is hard not to blame myself for letting them get to me...I will say that I didn't notice any effect from yesterday's snort of the oxycontin. I do wonder how strong the solution is. I'll go use some right now... OUCH! it really burns sublingually. I think I may need to inhale it from my wrist or something. It tastes quite odd as well... though it doesn't mention fragrance being added to it, I'm suspecting there's definitely something in there besides alcohol, distilled water & oxytocin. (what the label claims)
do you know anyone using that particular brand? It actually appears to be the only one available on the web without a prescription. I totally doubt my pdoc would prescribe it though I may bring in some articles when I see him next ( Jan 3 ). He could surprise me but I don't think so. He's been so resistant to making changes even before this happened. Perhaps he's become more lethargic as a pdoc though there's certainly no one better in this area.
I'll probably wait until the beginning of the week when I have privacy to try the kratom. I will admit I am nervous LOL
But re: the oxy.. you probably should go ahead and try it. I'd be curious about your response.
I'll wear it tomorrow as I HAVE to show up somewhere for a couple of hours. I'll let you know if everyone is extraordinarily nice to me LOL
I'll go babblemail the letter
thanks again :)))namaste,
lilith> Hi Liliths,
>
> Yes, best swallow the Kratom capsules with a glass of water, preferably on an empty stomach to get the full effect.
>
> I'd be happy to read the letter. Maybe best to babblemail it than post in a public domain?
>
> I'm interested to hear what effect the oxytocin has on your nervous tension. I think only a small amount is supposed to be used at a time. It sounds like it would be good to have around for those nights when I can't sleep at all.
>
> Q
Posted by liliths on December 17, 2006, at 18:32:39
In reply to Re: Oxytocin Spray for Panic Attacks » liliths, posted by Quintal on December 15, 2006, at 13:44:23
hi Q
just wanted you to know I received your babblemail and sent another letter - new version - Hopefully tighter and I'm hoping to have other letters backing me up
I just found out it has to be in by next week ! yikes!
btw, haven't noticed anything re: the oxycontin.
haven't tried wearing it yet thoughthanks again
namaste,
lilith> Hi Liliths,
>
> Yes, best swallow the Kratom capsules with a glass of water, preferably on an empty stomach to get the full effect.
>
> I'd be happy to read the letter. Maybe best to babblemail it than post in a public domain?
>
> I'm interested to hear what effect the oxytocin has on your nervous tension. I think only a small amount is supposed to be used at a time. It sounds like it would be good to have around for those nights when I can't sleep at all.
>
> Q
Posted by liliths on December 19, 2006, at 9:01:37
In reply to Re: Oxytocin Spray for Panic Attacks » liliths, posted by Quintal on December 15, 2006, at 13:44:23
Hi Q
just wanted you to know that you don't have to read the letter again - I realized it's just too much to ask
found out my pdoc's letter is going to cost me $200 so it had better be damn good!
I'll possibly have to edit mine after getting his and hopefully, one from my therapist, anyway... and I will try to put something in about how I understand the bugaboo about opiates, if I can figure out how
still no reaction to the oxycontin - I think that was wrong place to obtain it
hope to try the kratom tomorrow, if all goes well today :)
if you want I'll report my reaction to the capsulesI've been reading a lot of threads and see how busy you are - you're one of the good ones out there :)
be well...
namaste,
lilith> Hi Liliths,
>
> Yes, best swallow the Kratom capsules with a glass of water, preferably on an empty stomach to get the full effect.
>
> I'd be happy to read the letter. Maybe best to babblemail it than post in a public domain?
>
> I'm interested to hear what effect the oxytocin has on your nervous tension. I think only a small amount is supposed to be used at a time. It sounds like it would be good to have around for those nights when I can't sleep at all.
>
> Q
Posted by Quintal on December 19, 2006, at 13:12:18
In reply to Re: Oxytocin Spray for Panic Attacks » Quintal, posted by liliths on December 19, 2006, at 9:01:37
Hi Liliths,
I've just posted a babblemail to you. Your last babblemeail got redirected to my bulk mail box again along with a few others. Sorry for the delay.
Shame to hear the oxytocin isn't working. I wonder if we should contact that guy who had been using it for opiate withdrawal and see what he has to say about it?
Good luck with the Kratom. Hopefully that will have some effect ;-)
>I've been reading a lot of threads and see how busy you are - you're one of the good ones out there :)
Thank you. It's good to know someone thinks I'm helpful!
Take care.
Q
Posted by liliths on December 19, 2006, at 15:52:54
In reply to Re: Oxytocin Spray for Panic Attacks » liliths, posted by Quintal on December 19, 2006, at 13:12:18
Hi Q,
I figured it's easier to just write you here where I know you'll get it :)
you're not going to believe this, but my pdoc's letter is TOTALLY unusable and he's charging me $200 for it! All he talks about is how suicical I can be if not medicated properly and even calls a 'regession' i had back in 2004 a suicide attempt - which is NOT what I told PRN's pdoc so it makes his letter garbage and makes me look like a liar AND a lunatic. He didn't even do any of his own research. He simply provided the documents I have provided him when PRN's recommendation first came through and I went to see him and we called PRN
I faxed over what I thought he needed to change and was told he refuses to change a thing about the letter
I must admit, I'm becoming very iwilling to let go of my life these days... this latest development is a HUGE push over the edge
I also found out that if I do end up with a 'conditional' license, though the condition remains confidential, that fact that it IS conditional is noted. Of course, anyone will want to know why so I doubt I'd even be employable
thanks for your help... it looks more like my time here is almost over instead of just beginning, which was why I went back to school to begin with
it's all turning out to not be worth anything... how sad to end up like this
namaste,
lilith> Hi Liliths,
>
> I've just posted a babblemail to you. Your last babblemeail got redirected to my bulk mail box again along with a few others. Sorry for the delay.
>
> Shame to hear the oxytocin isn't working. I wonder if we should contact that guy who had been using it for opiate withdrawal and see what he has to say about it?
>
> Good luck with the Kratom. Hopefully that will have some effect ;-)
>
> >I've been reading a lot of threads and see how busy you are - you're one of the good ones out there :)
>
> Thank you. It's good to know someone thinks I'm helpful!
>
> Take care.
>
> Q
Posted by Quintal on December 19, 2006, at 23:58:00
In reply to UPDATE » Quintal, posted by liliths on December 19, 2006, at 15:52:54
Hi Liliths,
You sound very depressed and I really feel for you with what you're going through. It seems very unfair that you are being treated like this after working so hard to get back on your feet. You *will* get back in to work because you're obviously highly qualified and committed to your work and that *does* count for something.
>I also found out that if I do end up with a 'conditional' license, though the condition remains confidential, that fact that it IS conditional is noted. Of course, anyone will want to know why so I doubt I'd even be employable
Don't jump to conclusions with this. If any prospective employer questions why your license is conditional you can honestly say it was over a disagreement between some doctors on the review panel about the most suitable medication to treat your condition long term and has nothing to do with your ability as a massage therapist. They can verify this without having to know the precise details.
Lilliths, is that job with the sports team still going? I'm just wondering if you can go to them in complete honesty and explain the situation? Be forthright and get it out in the open. What do you have to lose? At least you'll know for certain where you stand then.
I'm sorry to hear about the pdoc's letter. If you think he has misrepresented your regression as a suicide attempt you are entitled to query that at least and ask for an amendment. Why is he refusing to change it?
I know things seem bleak right now but there are always ways of turning things around. I'll help where I can.
Have you tried the Kratom yet?
Take care.
Q
Posted by liliths on December 21, 2006, at 10:28:36
In reply to Re: UPDATE » liliths, posted by Quintal on December 19, 2006, at 23:58:00
hi Q
I posted 2 updates this morning to the 'work' thread.
Maybe I should have made it a new thread. I guess I'll find out if no one responds LOLI had to do it as 2 separate posts because for some reason the letter kept overwriting everything that came before it - maybe it was too long? I decided to post yet another version of the letter and just took out the names as I'm running out of time and feel really alone. My pdoc turned out to be a real liability, rather than a help. I feel so betrayed. His letter is actually dangerous. I'm now terrified they might contact him!
in case you're interested...
1st: an update
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/work/20061208/msgs/715397.html2nd: the letter
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/work/20061208/msgs/715400.htmlI swear, if this weren't all happening to me, I wouldn't believe it!! I live with someone and they've been just amazed to see me have to fight uphill ALL the way over this.
just took some kratom... feeling really badly today - had a pretty good day yesterday but today I just don't care again. Sitting in a BIG pot of self-pity and hopelessness. Really, I just want to die when I feel like this
I was scared to take all 5 LOL so I only took 3... but I think I'll go take the other 2... you've made it sound fairly benign (I hope!)
funny what a chicken I've become... I think it's because I feel so threatened by life these days... I expect everything to have a bad outcome as that's exactly what's been happening to me
what a bad person I must have been in a previous life
be well
namaste,
lilith> Hi Liliths,
>
> You sound very depressed and I really feel for you with what you're going through. It seems very unfair that you are being treated like this after working so hard to get back on your feet. You *will* get back in to work because you're obviously highly qualified and committed to your work and that *does* count for something.
>
> >I also found out that if I do end up with a 'conditional' license, though the condition remains confidential, that fact that it IS conditional is noted. Of course, anyone will want to know why so I doubt I'd even be employable
>
> Don't jump to conclusions with this. If any prospective employer questions why your license is conditional you can honestly say it was over a disagreement between some doctors on the review panel about the most suitable medication to treat your condition long term and has nothing to do with your ability as a massage therapist. They can verify this without having to know the precise details.
>
> Lilliths, is that job with the sports team still going? I'm just wondering if you can go to them in complete honesty and explain the situation? Be forthright and get it out in the open. What do you have to lose? At least you'll know for certain where you stand then.
>
> I'm sorry to hear about the pdoc's letter. If you think he has misrepresented your regression as a suicide attempt you are entitled to query that at least and ask for an amendment. Why is he refusing to change it?
>
> I know things seem bleak right now but there are always ways of turning things around. I'll help where I can.
>
> Have you tried the Kratom yet?
>
> Take care.
>
> Q
>
Posted by liliths on December 22, 2006, at 14:08:06
In reply to Re: UPDATE » liliths, posted by Quintal on December 19, 2006, at 23:58:00
hi Q
well you're off the hook regarding my license stuff now... and I am really sorry as I feel I may have caused you to feel pressured by it
interesting experience with the kratom capsules. Definitely got a buzz... subtle, though I'm not sure I would've felt comfortable riding my motorcycle or driving...
though with all the stress I've been under, particularly this past week when it was all coming to a head, it was really hard to tellnow I have to figure out the best way to take the other stuff LOL - they're all just powdered
what do you do?
I think you're right that it's not for daily use but definitely something to keep for fun :)
thanks for the tip
btw, I wore the oxycotin today but I don't know if anyone was nicer than usual to me LOL
namaste,
lilith> Hi Liliths,
>
> You sound very depressed and I really feel for you with what you're going through. It seems very unfair that you are being treated like this after working so hard to get back on your feet. You *will* get back in to work because you're obviously highly qualified and committed to your work and that *does* count for something.
>
> >I also found out that if I do end up with a 'conditional' license, though the condition remains confidential, that fact that it IS conditional is noted. Of course, anyone will want to know why so I doubt I'd even be employable
>
> Don't jump to conclusions with this. If any prospective employer questions why your license is conditional you can honestly say it was over a disagreement between some doctors on the review panel about the most suitable medication to treat your condition long term and has nothing to do with your ability as a massage therapist. They can verify this without having to know the precise details.
>
> Lilliths, is that job with the sports team still going? I'm just wondering if you can go to them in complete honesty and explain the situation? Be forthright and get it out in the open. What do you have to lose? At least you'll know for certain where you stand then.
>
> I'm sorry to hear about the pdoc's letter. If you think he has misrepresented your regression as a suicide attempt you are entitled to query that at least and ask for an amendment. Why is he refusing to change it?
>
> I know things seem bleak right now but there are always ways of turning things around. I'll help where I can.
>
> Have you tried the Kratom yet?
>
> Take care.
>
> Q
>
Posted by Quintal on December 22, 2006, at 15:08:25
In reply to Re: UPDATE » Quintal, posted by liliths on December 22, 2006, at 14:08:06
Hi Liliths,
>well you're off the hook regarding my license stuff now... and I am really sorry as I feel I may have caused you to feel pressured by it
No, not at all. I'm happy to help if I can
>interesting experience with the kratom capsules. Definitely got a buzz... subtle, though I'm not sure I would've felt comfortable riding my motorcycle or driving...
though with all the stress I've been under, particularly this past week when it was all coming to a head, it was really hard to tellI guess the buzz would be mild since you already have some tolerance to opiates? I wonder if there is a cross tolerance between opiates and mitragynine?
I mixed the Kratom powder with a bit of brandy (any spirit will do) and let it soak for a few hours the heat it a little bit. After that it's just a case of being brave and chugging it all down. It may be much stronger than swallowing the capsules.
Shame about the oxytocin. I'll contact that guy and ask him how he took it and what dose etc.
Q
Posted by liliths on December 26, 2006, at 14:44:58
In reply to Re: UPDATE » liliths, posted by Quintal on December 22, 2006, at 15:08:25
hi Q
I'm having the strangest experience. I tried one of the other Kratoms from my sample pack - I admit I encapsulated it though I'm sure you're right and that it's probably not as strong that way
BUT... I'm totally stupid... hard to even get myself to write this. Normally my experience with opiates is that they sharpen my focus... in this case, my brain just feels like mush and I can't seem to get myself to do anything
I ordered some liquid extract isolates out of curiosity, having read some interesting things about them on opiophile. I'm not good at eating stuff that tastes yucky LOL Have you ever tried them? I think they're fairly new. I'll let you know when they come:
90% Mitragynine (Isolate) & 7-Acetoxy Mitragynine (Isolate)but I am also feeling EXTREMELY depressed these days - maybe that has something to do with it??
I've been in such a bad place... realize I simply don't even know how to be me anymore... don't know how to have fun, feel fun... everything just sucks and I hate feeling like this
was hoping the kratom would help today but all it did was make me feel dumb
weird huh?
most of what I've read doesn't seem to think there's a problem between mitragynine and hydro. Opiophile's forums are hysterical... some people just mix and match to get totally wasted but there are some interesting tidbits as well
I think the next time I try it I'll use your recipe or perhaps try this:
2 tbsp ground and pasteurized kratom powder, 2 tsp sifted pounded kava root powder, 1.5 tbsp cocoa powder, 1.5 tbsp honey, two sachets sucralose sweetener (eqv. 3 tsp sugar), 3 tbsp milk or substitute, 1 tbsp vodka or whiskey. Add quick oats to firm as needed. Eat on an empty stomache upon awakening.
I've been meaning to send this to you since I first saw it... the poster did later say that the measurements are not 'exact' LOL and that you didn't have to use kava root.. the idea was just to make edible balls
btw, how much kratom do you use in your recipe and which type?
anyway just wanted to say hi and fill you in on this odd reaction
hope you are doing well
namaste,
lilith> Hi Liliths,
>
> >well you're off the hook regarding my license stuff now... and I am really sorry as I feel I may have caused you to feel pressured by it
>
> No, not at all. I'm happy to help if I can
>
> >interesting experience with the kratom capsules. Definitely got a buzz... subtle, though I'm not sure I would've felt comfortable riding my motorcycle or driving...
> though with all the stress I've been under, particularly this past week when it was all coming to a head, it was really hard to tell
>
> I guess the buzz would be mild since you already have some tolerance to opiates? I wonder if there is a cross tolerance between opiates and mitragynine?
>
> I mixed the Kratom powder with a bit of brandy (any spirit will do) and let it soak for a few hours the heat it a little bit. After that it's just a case of being brave and chugging it all down. It may be much stronger than swallowing the capsules.
>
> Shame about the oxytocin. I'll contact that guy and ask him how he took it and what dose etc.
>
> Q
>
Posted by Quintal on December 26, 2006, at 16:08:17
In reply to Re: UPDATE » Quintal, posted by liliths on December 26, 2006, at 14:44:58
Hi Liliths,
Mitragynine isn't a typical opiate and has some unique properties so it isn't surprising that you had a different response to Kratom. Kratom/mitragynine is supposed to have stimulating effects at low doses and sedative effects at high doses - maybe you'd be better off taking a smaller dose, or maybe the reverse is true and you'd benefit from a higher dose? The only way to find out is to test your responses at different doses.
It's also possible that the hydrocodone is affecting your response in some way.
Thanks for the recipe. It sounds interesting ;-)
No, I've never taken the liquid extracts but I'd be interested to hear your experiences.
I still haven't got round to contacting that guy - will do it tonight.
Take care.
Q
Posted by liliths on December 27, 2006, at 11:55:41
In reply to Re: UPDATE » liliths, posted by Quintal on December 26, 2006, at 16:08:17
hi Q
actually I still feel really stupid today and am wondering if it's a side effect of being so depressed.
I've been on 1/2 my hydrocodone dose for the past couple of weeks now. I tapered down without any problems, except, of course, becoming more depressed... which is REALLY bad timing, considering my circumstances
But I figured I should be prepared to go off it. It's even possible they won't issue me a license until I am - I haven't a clue how the board will react to the medication, much less the letter and documentation I provided in it's defense.
more than likely, they will go with PRN's recommendations, simply because it makes them 'feel' safe. I guess I wrote what I did mostly out of a sense of justice and the rage I feel at the way I've been treated. I hope they will at least hear some of what I've said about PRN not distinguishing between the people they are sent to 'evaluate' and think about making some changes
I've actually considered being off of it by the time of my interview - I haven't decided whether to continue to taper down or not.
that said, I just took 2 of them LOL My normal dosage called for 1 - 2x daily and I've just been taking 1 in the afternoon.
I haven't had any extra until today. I'm so depressed and so lost, I was curious to see what it would do.I think it will give me an indication of how the kratom affects me right now as well. I read the same thing about the dosages and actually, to some degree, that's how the hydro worked for me
I know that being this depressed and this dysfunctional won't change simply because I've taken anything. I am so 'off' right now that that, in itself, has me reeling. I don't live anymore. I just suffer. And despite my everyday decision to 'move forward' - I simply don't
I honestly don't know if I will make it through this and I can't say I really care. I went out the other evening and realized I don't even know how to be around people any more.
right now, I just want to die. What a waste it all appears to be. I don't even care about getting a damn license. It just feels like something I 'should' follow through on because of all I went through and gave up to get. I suppose if I have it, there's a possibility I could come back to being able to use it... even though that seems a distant bit of nonsense... and I also 'know' these are just feelings and therefore potentially transitory - and I have always HATED that phrase btw, simply because when immersed in them, they certainly don't feel so trivial
did I read correctly that you weren't currently on any prescribed meds? I'd like to go off of everything and use herbal supplements, except it's simply too damn expensive!! My insurance won't cover them. Nice racket the pharmeceutical companies have with insurance companies. imagine if people could be covered for their supplements!
after this experience, I want as little to do as possible with the 'powers that be'. I want off the grid
ahhh..... I am ranting... I'll stop
I apologize for blathering so
hope all is well with you
namaste,
lilith> Hi Liliths,
>
> Mitragynine isn't a typical opiate and has some unique properties so it isn't surprising that you had a different response to Kratom. Kratom/mitragynine is supposed to have stimulating effects at low doses and sedative effects at high doses - maybe you'd be better off taking a smaller dose, or maybe the reverse is true and you'd benefit from a higher dose? The only way to find out is to test your responses at different doses.
>
> It's also possible that the hydrocodone is affecting your response in some way.
>
> Thanks for the recipe. It sounds interesting ;-)
>
> No, I've never taken the liquid extracts but I'd be interested to hear your experiences.
>
> I still haven't got round to contacting that guy - will do it tonight.
>
> Take care.
> Q
Posted by liliths on December 27, 2006, at 18:41:57
In reply to Re: UPDATE » liliths, posted by Quintal on December 26, 2006, at 16:08:17
hi Q
I want to apologize for my last post. You shouldn't have to deal with my depression.
I'll let this thread go and leave you be
thank you for all your help... much appreciated
namaste,
lilith> Hi Liliths,
>
> Mitragynine isn't a typical opiate and has some unique properties so it isn't surprising that you had a different response to Kratom. Kratom/mitragynine is supposed to have stimulating effects at low doses and sedative effects at high doses - maybe you'd be better off taking a smaller dose, or maybe the reverse is true and you'd benefit from a higher dose? The only way to find out is to test your responses at different doses.
>
> It's also possible that the hydrocodone is affecting your response in some way.
>
> Thanks for the recipe. It sounds interesting ;-)
>
> No, I've never taken the liquid extracts but I'd be interested to hear your experiences.
>
> I still haven't got round to contacting that guy - will do it tonight.
>
> Take care.
> Q
Posted by teejay on December 27, 2006, at 19:36:31
In reply to Re: UPDATE sorry » Quintal, posted by liliths on December 27, 2006, at 18:41:57
Hey, don't be in such a rush to run away. There was so much in your posting that I could identify with!
The bit about not living, just suffering, and the bit about being around people meant a lot to me.
I know this doesn't help you out much, but just wanted you to know others are reading your 'ramblings' and don't want you to stop.
TJ
Posted by Quintal on December 27, 2006, at 22:10:48
In reply to Re: UPDATE » Quintal, posted by liliths on December 27, 2006, at 11:55:41
Hi Liliths,
You don't have to apologise for being depressed - that's why most of us are here! We've been in that dark place ourselves and we want to help you find the way out.
I wonder if it's really a good idea to quit the hydrocodone? Is it worth feeling so bad just because of those b*startds at the PRN? I think you really need to be kind to yourself and take whatever you need to take to feel well. Could you call your pdoc and explain how bad you're feeling?
Is there another benzo besides Klonopin you could use? I wonder if that may be making the depression worse - how about Xanax? Also, there's lamotrigine to consider - it was *very* effective for me in combo with a benzo for two years and I'd still be taking it if I hadn't been forced to quit benzos. And maybe a tricyclic such as clomipramine? Have you tried it? It's very effective for severe depression and anxiety along with obsessive thoughts.
>did I read correctly that you weren't currently on any prescribed meds? I'd like to go off of everything and use herbal supplements, except it's simply too damn expensive!! My insurance won't cover them. Nice racket the pharmaceutical companies have with insurance companies. imagine if people could be covered for their supplements!
Yes, I'm not taking any prescribed meds right now, but if I was feeling as bad as you describe I would go back on them. You could add something like Rhodiola to your current regime - have you ever tried it? It can be amazingly effective especially as an augmenter. There's also ashwaganda which can prevent or even reverse opiate tolerance. Did you ever try low dose naltrexone to boost your natural endorphins? I wonder if the PRN would be more approving and tolerant of that - most likely they would.
Liliths, please think carefully about the hydrocodone. If it is an effective antidepressant for you then how about going back to your normal dose for now?
Q
Posted by Quintal on December 27, 2006, at 22:59:27
In reply to Re: UPDATE sorry, posted by teejay on December 27, 2006, at 19:36:31
Vale if you're reading this could you please explain how you used the oxytocin spray and where you bought it etc.? Your babblemail is switched off so I can't contact you that way.
Thanks,
Q
Posted by Quintal on December 27, 2006, at 23:01:48
In reply to Atypical Depression » liliths, posted by verne on December 12, 2006, at 15:48:36
Posted by liliths on December 28, 2006, at 6:42:18
In reply to Re: UPDATE sorry, posted by teejay on December 27, 2006, at 19:36:31
hi TJ
thank you for posting. It felt like it's just been Qunital and me, and he's been through so much of my crap, I really thought he deserved a break from me!! I also had posted an upate on another thread and never recieved a single response so I felt as if no one was reading any of my posts on existing threads.
I'm glad you were abe to idenitfy... I hope it was of some small comfort. It's awful to think about the state most of us are in here but I feel awful dumping so much negativity - I literally feel 'toxic' right now... sigh
trying to find my legs, my arms, my heart and my creativity... my soul and my mind may be lost forever... hell, I may have dumped my muse back there as well and that's REALLY scary
thanks again... please feel free to post your own experiences... we can trade stories :)
have you tried kratom?
There's much to learn
namaste,
lilith
> Hey, don't be in such a rush to run away. There was so much in your posting that I could identify with!
>
> The bit about not living, just suffering, and the bit about being around people meant a lot to me.
>
> I know this doesn't help you out much, but just wanted you to know others are reading your 'ramblings' and don't want you to stop.
>
> TJ
Posted by liliths on December 28, 2006, at 7:22:34
In reply to There's no need to apologize! ;-) » liliths, posted by Quintal on December 27, 2006, at 22:10:48
hi Q
thank you for your continued kindness.
The last time I went to my pdoc and complained about how depressed I was and that I wanted to consider changing some meds, he told me I just needed more exercise and structure in my life - it wasn't the meds, it was me!! OH DUH!!
This was right after finishing school and passing my boards... before I applied for my license. The crash was awful and idiot that I am, I bought into his laziness and thought indeed it was all my fault!
He then turned out to be totally short-sighted as well as a potential REAL threat to my getting my license, I can't call him for anything! In fact, I should probably be looking to switch pdocs. His letter made me out to be an insane, suicidal puddle, 'saved' by his "med regimen" and basically threatened the return of my suicidal ideation should they tamper with it. His timeline was off, he wrote a 'version' of events I had already checked with a Health Professional about as not having to reveal on my evaluation and his version is TOTALLY skewed to boot.
If I were to read his letter, I certainly wouldn't give me a license and I was advised to not submit it due to its inflammatory nature, as well as the inconsistencies. He totally lost sight of what I needed and became enraged and defensive about having 'his' judgement challenged and his letter was basically a justification at my expense
I had never heard of klonopin exacerbating depression until recently. What is the xanax dose that is comparable to 1mg klonopin? Again, finding someone to prescribe it is impossible as PRN is actually hoping to take the klonopin from me. They had mentioned contacting my pdoc about it, so of course, I'm living in fear they WILL contact him and he WILL go off on his tirade! I'll know when I show up for the hearing.
If the Board or PRN contacts him and he brings up all that stuff, it'll be the first thing out of their mouths and I probably will NOT be issued a license
you're right about my having tapered my dose. I should probably enjoy what small measure of help it may be able to give me right now. I think I've been punishing myself for having gotten into this mess. Additionally, I felt I should get used to being without them.
Maybe I'll go back. But there is that part of me that just wants out from all pharmaceuticals.. even though I highly doubt I could do it. I am so angry with these 'powers that be' having taken control of my life, I don't want to give them anything. As I said, I want off the grid!
TCA's are a no-no due to the weight gain and though lamotrigine looked promising at first, it doesn't sound like an great choice
If I bring up naltrexone, the idiots at PRN will assume I am admitting to being an opioid addict as they are completely blind to off-label use
My biggest problem is finding someone willing to prescribe anything other than what I take though the herbs you mention bear looking into
thanks for all your help. I can look into the xanax once I know the ratio. It's 'possible' though not necessarily likely, my primary may write me some prescriptons. but overall, she is very resistant to taking over my psych meds, even though I have always been the one to 'suggest' the drugs to my pdocs anyway and between this board and my own research, could probably do just as well, if not better, dealing with just a physician and not some ego maniac
keep me posted (on babblemail if necessary) on what you find out about the oxycontin nasal spray. Thanks for sending the post to your friend
you ARE truely a gift :)
namaste,
lilith
> Hi Liliths,
>
> You don't have to apologise for being depressed - that's why most of us are here! We've been in that dark place ourselves and we want to help you find the way out.
>
> I wonder if it's really a good idea to quit the hydrocodone? Is it worth feeling so bad just because of those b*startds at the PRN? I think you really need to be kind to yourself and take whatever you need to take to feel well. Could you call your pdoc and explain how bad you're feeling?
>
> Is there another benzo besides Klonopin you could use? I wonder if that may be making the depression worse - how about Xanax? Also, there's lamotrigine to consider - it was *very* effective for me in combo with a benzo for two years and I'd still be taking it if I hadn't been forced to quit benzos. And maybe a tricyclic such as clomipramine? Have you tried it? It's very effective for severe depression and anxiety along with obsessive thoughts.
>
> >did I read correctly that you weren't currently on any prescribed meds? I'd like to go off of everything and use herbal supplements, except it's simply too damn expensive!! My insurance won't cover them. Nice racket the pharmaceutical companies have with insurance companies. imagine if people could be covered for their supplements!
>
> Yes, I'm not taking any prescribed meds right now, but if I was feeling as bad as you describe I would go back on them. You could add something like Rhodiola to your current regime - have you ever tried it? It can be amazingly effective especially as an augmenter. There's also ashwaganda which can prevent or even reverse opiate tolerance. Did you ever try low dose naltrexone to boost your natural endorphins? I wonder if the PRN would be more approving and tolerant of that - most likely they would.
>
> Liliths, please think carefully about the hydrocodone. If it is an effective antidepressant for you then how about going back to your normal dose for now?
>
> Q
>
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