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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 21 to 45 of 74. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 5, 2010, at 21:31:33
In reply to Re: talking to Babblers » Free, posted by Deneb on May 5, 2010, at 16:07:37
> I'd like to think you care about "us", the individual "me" is a bit uncomfortable.
> I believe you do care about us.
>
> obsidian> For me, talking only on an adm. level and caring on a big picture of the community level. I am okay with that....
>
> glydin2010> Sure, I'll admit that I would like it if you cared about me and talked to me. And why not, it feels good to be cared about, and the more the merrier the way I see it. You are a unique puzzle for sure, so yeah, it's interesting for me to see you open up at times. Please feel free to care and talk to me anytime for any reason if you're so inclined ~~ smiles.
>
> Free> Yay! I'm not alone!
>
> :-)
>
> DenebThanks for supporting Deneb by showing her she's not alone! :-)
--
> It's funny you know..the way this sort of thing works....the way that prophecies or expectations become realities.
> It's something that I try to work with.
>
> I realized it when I was young, and life really sucked...that I had to entertain the idea that other people could be just other people, with their own concerns, oblivious to me, despite all the feelings I was having. It didn't mean (and doesn't mean) that I don't still feelings about other people's motives and how they relate to me, but I learned to question myself constantly...
>
> obsidianHmm, how might that look applied to expectations of me or feelings about my motives?
--
> I'll also admit that I have come to care about you(well, under the context of forum dynamics) even though we don't see eye to eye on "things" most of the time. It seems you have grown on me over the years with your mysterious and maddening ways (don't pbc me, I say this with an affectionate tone:)).
>
> And while I'm in a good mood, I'd like to congratulate you on the NY Times article. I wouldn't mind being called "a brilliant and reticent Web mastermind" myself. Well done, Bob. Good for you!
>
> FreeThanks! It wouldn't be civil of me to refer to anyone as maddening, but I do also care about those who I don't see eye to eye with. :-)
Bob
Posted by obsidian on May 5, 2010, at 22:51:29
In reply to Re: caring about each other, posted by Dr. Bob on May 5, 2010, at 21:31:33
> > It's funny you know..the way this sort of thing works....the way that prophecies or expectations become realities.
> > It's something that I try to work with.
> >
> > I realized it when I was young, and life really sucked...that I had to entertain the idea that other people could be just other people, with their own concerns, oblivious to me, despite all the feelings I was having. It didn't mean (and doesn't mean) that I don't still feelings about other people's motives and how they relate to me, but I learned to question myself constantly...
> >
> > obsidian
>
> Hmm, how might that look applied to expectations of me or feelings about my motives?It means I try not to be blind about how my feelings (from the past) might influence my perceptions, so I am therefore a little more "in control".
ummmm...I don't know, hard question.
You are a person, apart from me.
I don't have a lot of expectations of you Dr. Bob that relate to me personally.
I know you're a psychiatrist, interested in the internet and it's relevance to issues of mental health, so I suppose you are curious, like to learn, like research, all that, are comfortable to a certain degree with strong emotions and opinions thrown your way, but I imagine you have a sincere desire to help people. I think that's cool.
I don't expect you to be familiar with me at all, but sometimes I hope that you do know me, in general, a piece of who I am, because I've been hanging around this place for so damn long.
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 6, 2010, at 0:04:19
In reply to Re: caring about each other » Dr. Bob, posted by obsidian on May 5, 2010, at 22:51:29
> > > It's funny you know..the way this sort of thing works....the way that prophecies or expectations become realities.
> > > It's something that I try to work with.
> > >
> > > I learned to question myself constantly...
> >
> > Hmm, how might that look applied to expectations of me or feelings about my motives?
>
> ummmm...I don't know, hard question.Thanks for replying. Sorry about not being very clear!
I was wondering if you (or anybody else) could think of an example (or two) of how a hypothetical poster's prophecies or expectations about me might become realities if they didn't question themselves?
Bob
Posted by Dinah on May 6, 2010, at 8:51:25
In reply to Re: caring about each other, posted by Dr. Bob on May 6, 2010, at 0:04:19
Is this what you mean?
Poster X might feel that you are insensitive and provocative. Either because of interpretations of your previous behaviors, or expectations of authority figures in general, or because you remind them of someone in their life. So when you post one of your one liners, or are away from Babble for a while, they assume that your silence or words are intended to provoke or are evidence of your total lack of caring. Their responses towards you could reflect those expectations and if they are uncivil or attacking, could you end up blocking or acting in such a way that confirms their suspicions. They think you will hurt them and act accordingly leading you to respond in ways that could reasonably cause them to feel hurt. Thus their expectations and resulting behavior could change the actual outcome in terms of blocks and PBC's as well as the perceived reality in terms of your attitudes and intentions.
Poster Y could have had different beliefs and expectations about you or authority figures in general. They might consider your one liners to be evidence of your wit and of a detached interest, and your absences to be caused by busyness. They might appreciate that even though you are so busy, you take time for Babble. They might respond on those assumptions, which would in turn likely make you feel more positive about them and possibly about Babble in general (since most people prefer to be greeted with smiles and good will than with anger and rudeness). Thus their expectations and resulting behavior could change the actual reality as well as the perceived reality.
Poster Z... Well, this one is tough, considering the original topic of the thread... I'll have to use my therapist as an example. When I felt very insecure about my therapist I tended to cling and to ask for reassurances. I intended to interpret things as meaning he didn't care about me. I wanted to feel like a Jessica to him, and was upset that I didn't. Geesh, this one is tough for me which probably says a lot about me. It's a good idea to question my assumptions and recognize that this or that experience didn't have anything to do with whether or not he cared about me? And that given the realities of the therapeutic relationship he would never care for me like I might want, like a daughter, but that he almost certainly cared more for me than I feared. In accepting the limitations of the relationship, I can better appreciate the relationship I have. And, applied to Babble terms, anyone who wants to be special to you might feel frustrated, but that in some ways posters are special to you, and you do care about them. There has been plenty of evidence of that as well.
So that Poster X might want to question whether your intent towards them is harmful or if whether their expectations of your actions and their interpretations of your intent lead them to actions that bring about the result they fear.
And Poster Y might want to consider that you are not endlessly patient, that you are human like everyone else with strengths and faults like anyone else. (Though honestly, Poster Y seems to have a better outcome, unless they then become disappointed and bitter because you can't live up to their expectations. Why would Poster Y be better off changing?)
And Poster Z might be better off recognizing the severe limitations of your role here, along with the many evidences of your caring about Babble in general and Babblers in particular. And that no matter how administrative the role, the relationship with each Babbler is bound to be different - particularly with Babblers who frequent Admin or have been around a long time. And that those individual relationships, however limited, are special in their own way and the Babblers are special to you in their own way. And it's entirely possible for you to (limited) special relationships with individual Babblers without those having anything do do with the relationships with other Babblers. That no one who wants a relationship with you will be very satisfied on Babble, but that what relationship they do have with you is unique to you and the poster based on what interactions you do have. Like a teacher.
Ok, I fall down on Poster Z, because that one touches more on my own issues.
Is that what you were looking for?
If it is, might it be your turn to own your share of interactions?
If not, I apologize.
Posted by TherapyGirl on May 6, 2010, at 15:12:26
In reply to Re: caring about each other » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on May 6, 2010, at 8:51:25
I'm not sure I've ever posted on Admin before, but Dinah you continue to amaze me with your ability to articulate difficult, complicated subjects and imagine how different people might view the same situation (or person) completely differently. I could not have done this in a million years.
And Dr. Bob, I don't think that you've ever "spoken" to me and that's just fine. I prefer to fly under the radar, LOL, but I do appreciate having this space.
Posted by muffled on May 6, 2010, at 16:06:05
In reply to Re: caring about each other, posted by Dr. Bob on May 5, 2010, at 21:31:33
"Thanks! It wouldn't be civil of me to refer to anyone as maddening, but I do also care about those who I don't see eye to eye with. :-)
Bob"
You said it w/o ACTUALLY saying it....ROFL.
Now THAT is slick.
You da man.
You playin it.
Having fun yet?
Must be or you wouldn't post, you'd just disappear.
Cuz thats what you do.
Or mebbe you just ever the curious scientist.
Maybe both.
"Caring"....thats a dicey word Bob....
tho perhaps fluffy and empty enuf to not really mean a whole lot.
I can care, but it doesn't mean I make any changes to suit anything but my own beleifs.
Tho 'caring' would IMPLY otherwise. It does not.
I beleive what I SEE. How people ACT.
Not empty words.
I don't mean to personally diss you Bob.
Just I don't like to see you hurting people.
:(
Btw FWIW, the geek stuff behind this site is a marvel. You may not understand people, but you sure are a whiz at computer stuff.
All is not lost.
Best wishes
M
Posted by free on May 6, 2010, at 18:31:11
In reply to Re: talking to Babblers » Free, posted by Deneb on May 5, 2010, at 16:07:37
> Yay! I'm not alone!
>
> :-)
>
> I hope Dr. Bob talks to you too!
>
> DenebGreat! Glad you're not feeling alone ~~smiles.
Posted by Deneb on May 6, 2010, at 19:29:36
In reply to Re: caring about each other » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on May 6, 2010, at 8:51:25
Thanks for explaining Dinah! You're so smart!
Dinah, I still don't understand why you felt/feel that way. Can you explain in chat? I want to make sure I don't do something like that again.
Posted by Deneb on May 6, 2010, at 19:33:02
In reply to Re: caring about each other, posted by Dr. Bob on May 5, 2010, at 21:31:33
> Thanks! It wouldn't be civil of me to refer to anyone as maddening, but I do also care about those who I don't see eye to eye with. :-)
>
> BobThat's one of the things I like most about you Dr. Bob!
((((Dr. Bob)))))
Posted by free on May 6, 2010, at 20:26:26
In reply to Re: caring about each other, posted by Dr. Bob on May 5, 2010, at 21:31:33
>
> > I'll also admit that I have come to care about you(well, under the context of forum dynamics) even though we don't see eye to eye on "things" most of the time. It seems you have grown on me over the years with your mysterious and maddening ways (don't pbc me, I say this with an affectionate tone:)).
> >
> > And while I'm in a good mood, I'd like to congratulate you on the NY Times article. I wouldn't mind being called "a brilliant and reticent Web mastermind" myself. Well done, Bob. Good for you!
> >
> > Free
>
> Thanks! It wouldn't be civil of me to refer to anyone as maddening, but I do also care about those who I don't see eye to eye with. :-)
>
> BobI think you're saying you care about me. Thanks, Bob, it's a love-fest! Let's enjoy it while it lasts. :)
Posted by obsidian on May 6, 2010, at 22:30:30
In reply to masterful » Dr. Bob, posted by muffled on May 6, 2010, at 16:06:05
muffly,
where are you coming from?
thanks,
sid
Posted by muffled on May 6, 2010, at 22:38:11
In reply to Re: masterful » muffled, posted by obsidian on May 6, 2010, at 22:30:30
Sorry, from a place of hurt.
Never mind me.
Thx
M
Posted by jane d on May 6, 2010, at 23:41:28
In reply to Re: caring about each other » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on May 6, 2010, at 8:51:25
Or Posters X, Y, and Z could simplify their lives by deciding to interact with each other and all the other posters in the alphabet instead. On the board, in chat, or somewhere else entirely. Much less complicated and more gratifying.
Posted by PartlyCloudy on May 7, 2010, at 6:21:18
In reply to Re: caring about each other » Dinah, posted by jane d on May 6, 2010, at 23:41:28
This post needs a "like" button.
Posted by Dinah on May 7, 2010, at 8:16:55
In reply to Re: caring about each other » Dinah, posted by jane d on May 6, 2010, at 23:41:28
Yes indeed. :)
That would be ideal. And that's likely what a good number of posters do.
But if Dr. Bob were that irrelevant, Admin might be smaller?
I think I got caught up in the intellectual challenge of figuring out what Dr. Bob was asking for. :) That really wasn't even what I started off the post intending to say.
Posted by Dinah on May 7, 2010, at 8:33:25
In reply to Re: caring about each other » Dinah, posted by TherapyGirl on May 6, 2010, at 15:12:26
Thanks, Therapygirl.
My therapist is really big on guiding me gently to see how my thoughts and my actions based on those thoughts contribute to the results I tend to receive. He has an interest in community dynamics.He used Babble a lot when he was trying to show me that I was not powerless in this sort of situation. It's his training you hear. :)
I was a bit confused as to what response Dr. Bob was trying to elicit from us. It appears he was looking for something in particular, and in context of the thread, I wasn't sure what that was. I was thinking out loud, and am still not sure if that's what he is aiming at.
Posted by Glydin 2010 on May 7, 2010, at 8:50:56
In reply to Re: caring about each other » TherapyGirl, posted by Dinah on May 7, 2010, at 8:33:25
Maybe Dr. Bob wanted a little ego boost? Who knows but him....
I'll be the first to admit that I could be odd person out on this, BUT truly honestly all I really expect of Dr. Bob is the adm. of the boards. My opinions and thoughts about him don't go much passed that. He is not the first thing that comes to mind FOR ME when I visit.
Posted by Tabitha on May 7, 2010, at 10:51:17
In reply to Re: caring about each other » jane d, posted by PartlyCloudy on May 7, 2010, at 6:21:18
> This post needs a "like" button.
Totally.
Posted by Tabitha on May 7, 2010, at 11:43:34
In reply to Re: caring about each other » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on May 6, 2010, at 8:51:25
I see how Dr Bob's line of inquiry about expectations setting up outcome was relevant to Poster X, and to some degree with Poster Y, but it falls apart for me with Poster Z also.
So Poster Z idealizes Dr Bob, gets a big boost off any attention from Dr Bob, then feels extreme distress when Dr Bob doesn't provide that same level of attention. So obviously Poster Z is holding expectations that will lead to repeated distress periods.
Yet what's Dr Bob doing? He's enabling the idealization phases by allowing all the gushing admiration posts and interacting with Poster Z at the babble events. So he's feeding this cycle of fixation and distress for Poster Z.
Sigh. If one thinks the good outweighs the bad for Poster Z here, or that this is the option of least harm, I guess it's all OK? Is that what Dr Bob is assuming? Has he made some wise decision here? Poster Y might imagine so. Poster X, on the other hand, might think he's just enjoying an ego boost at the cost of continued harm to Poster Z.
A person might think Dr Bob could clear it all up for us by giving us a clue why he's taking the approach he's taking. Again, Poster Y's and Poster X's will draw different conclusions about his silence.
P.S. Obvs Bob has some Poster Y's at the NYT. "Brilliant and reticent". Wow, I guess he's encouraging us all to be Poster Y's with that sig. Yet Poster X might see it as more evidence that he's an out-of-touch narcissist.
Posted by Dinah on May 7, 2010, at 12:02:00
In reply to Re: caring about each other » Dinah, posted by Tabitha on May 7, 2010, at 11:43:34
I meant no one in particular with any of the posters, and my own struggles with my therapist were on my mind when I wrote up Poster Z. I was just trying to try to figure out what Dr. Bob was trying to lead us to, given the context.
I threw out a guess, and others might as well, but if we don't get his point, I hope he'll be more explicit. It would be around this stage that I'd be pounding my head and telling my therapist to just tell me what he wanted to have me know. And of course, Dr. Bob isn't our therapist.
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 7, 2010, at 12:19:42
In reply to Re: caring about each other » Dinah, posted by jane d on May 6, 2010, at 23:41:28
> So that Poster X might want to question whether your intent towards them is harmful or if whether their expectations of your actions and their interpretations of your intent lead them to actions that bring about the result they fear.
>
> And Poster Z might be better off recognizing the severe limitations of your role here, along with the many evidences of your caring about Babble in general and Babblers in particular. And that no matter how administrative the role, the relationship with each Babbler is bound to be different ... And that those individual relationships, however limited, are special in their own way and the Babblers are special to you in their own way.
>
> Is that what you were looking for?
>
> If it is, might it be your turn to own your share of interactions?
>
> DinahI think that was excellent, thank you. Sid, are those the sort of dynamics you had in mind?
"My share" means my prophecies or expectations about posters might, by influencing my actions toward them, also become realities? I'm constrained by the policies and procedures here, but that's definitely still possible.
> I can care, but it doesn't mean I make any changes to suit anything but my own beleifs.
I agree, not making a change to suit someone else's beliefs doesn't necessarily mean not caring about them.
> I don't mean to personally diss you Bob.
> Just I don't like to see you hurting people.
>
> MI don't like to hurt people, either. At the same time, prophecies or expectations of hurt can make real hurt more likely.
> Posters X, Y, and Z could simplify their lives by deciding to interact with each other and all the other posters in the alphabet instead. On the board, in chat, or somewhere else entirely. Much less complicated and more gratifying.
>
> jane dThat's true. Posters have the power to not to engage with those they don't get along with.
--
> Dr. Bob, I don't think that you've ever "spoken" to me and that's just fine. I prefer to fly under the radar, LOL, but I do appreciate having this space.
>
> TherapyGirlThanks! :-)
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 7, 2010, at 13:42:33
In reply to Re: caring about each other » Dinah, posted by Tabitha on May 7, 2010, at 11:43:34
> Poster X might feel that you are insensitive and provocative. ... They think you will hurt them
>
> Poster Y ... might consider your [interactions] to be evidence of your wit and of a detached interest, and ... busyness.
>
> Poster Z ... [tends] to interpret things as meaning he didn't care about me.
>
> Dinah> Poster Z idealizes Dr Bob
>
> He's enabling the idealization phases ... Poster X ... might think he's just enjoying an ego boost
>
> TabithaDinah and Tabitha, are you referring to the same types of poster as X and Z?
> all the other posters in the alphabet
>
> jane dI think it might be useful to think about other posters in the alphabet, too. Can anybody else imagine other hypothetical posters? Or other hypothetical expectations of me?
Bob
Posted by Deneb on May 7, 2010, at 15:07:30
In reply to Re: caring about each other, posted by Dr. Bob on May 7, 2010, at 12:19:42
(((((((((Dr. Bob)))))))))))))
Poster D interprets your interest in this thread as evidence of your caring and wanting to help Babblers. Poster D feels all warm inside.
Hugs from poster "D". LOL
(((((((((((((((((((Dr. Bob)))))))))))))))))))))
Happy sigh. Poster D loves you soooo much! You're the best.
Posted by obsidian on May 7, 2010, at 21:54:02
In reply to Re: caring about each other, posted by Dr. Bob on May 7, 2010, at 12:19:42
> I think that was excellent, thank you. Sid, are those the sort of dynamics you had in mind?yes :-)
that's it. Thank goodness for dinah, and her powers of explanation.
Posted by jane d on May 8, 2010, at 0:55:56
In reply to Re: caring about each other, posted by Dr. Bob on May 7, 2010, at 12:19:42
> > Posters X, Y, and Z could simplify their lives by deciding to interact with each other and all the other posters in the alphabet instead. On the board, in chat, or somewhere else entirely. Much less complicated and more gratifying.
> >
> > jane d
>
> That's true. Posters have the power to not to engage with those they don't get along with.
>We don't get along? I'm sorry to hear that!
I'm also sorry if I offended you in any way since that wasn't my intent. I merely meant that the amount of your engagement with individual posters here is limited. It's been that way for as long as I can remember and there's no reason to think it's going to change. If one wants more of a personal relationship I think one is more likely to find that with other posters. Therefore that's more gratifying. And less complicated without the power imbalance.
Anyway it's worked for me and I'm grateful to you for providing a place it could happen in.
Jane,
wondering if she's put her foot further in her mouth but too sleepy to care
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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