![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 6 to 30 of 45. Go back in thread:
Posted by noa on January 25, 2003, at 17:42:47
In reply to Re: In the depths of depression--please help, posted by Theresa Rae on January 25, 2003, at 12:34:06
Yes--I have had years of depression. During major depressive episodes, it was/is difficult to imagine getting through it (I still have an episode from time to time, but they don't last as long and aren't quite so horrible now). But I did. As for books,for some reason, reading "Darkness Visible" by William Styron used to comfort me when I was in the throes. I guess because it is short and so readable and the language he uses to describe his experience really rang true for me.
And I went through years of searching for the right med combo--so discouraging. But I eventually got one that worked well enough, and the deep depression began to lift.
The goal is just to get through it--not to think about big life decisions, etc. but just to do what you need to do to take care of yourself and get through the hardest period of time. List your resources for support and have the list visible to remind you.
Hoping you begin to feel better real soon.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 25, 2003, at 18:32:13
In reply to Re: In the depths of depression--please help, posted by agencypanic on January 25, 2003, at 10:25:44
> Another thing that I might suggest is picking up a few books written by people who have had similar experiences. There's always Styron's _Darkness Visible_, but I like Elizabeth Wurtzel's _Prozac Nation_ and _The Beast_ by ???
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
But I don't mean to be pushy. Did you deliberately not use it to link to Amazon? If so, I'd be interested in why, over at Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by babs on January 25, 2003, at 22:46:10
In reply to Re: double double quotes » agencypanic, posted by Dr. Bob on January 25, 2003, at 18:32:13
Oh cubbybear- I've been there more times than I care to mention. Like others have said- you are not alone. Look at all the people that post on this board. Waiting for the meds to kick in is hell but they will. In the meantime- try to do something nice for yourself every day. Even if you feel like you don't have the energy or don't want to or it won't make a difference. It does. Also something that has saved my life is keeping a journal. Even if the only thing you write in it right now is how much everything sucks- because it's a place to vent. And grdually you can even track your recovery. Please know that we are with you and post any time you need support.
Posted by cubbybear on January 26, 2003, at 2:07:46
In reply to Re: In the depths of depression--please help, posted by proud mary on January 25, 2003, at 11:15:37
For Proud Mary--
You asked about my meds. It's a complicated situation so I'll try to keep it short. I don't live in the U.S. When I was there, I had 18 years of success on MAOI Parnate. I moved to Thailand about 4 years ago but Parnate is unavailable here. For the first 2 years or so, I would travel back to the U.S. once a year and pick up a year's supply of Parnate. Last year, I decided to try switching to one of the newer generation anti-depressants. That's when the troubles started (along with physical health and job problems). I switched to Remeron, which pooped out on me after about 6 mos. I then tried Zoloft, and disliked it for a number of reasons. I felt in my gut that I would do best on MAOs, and the only MAO type medication here is called Moclobemide (Aurorix). That's what I'm presently taking (600 mg.) It's not available in the U.S. and if you're curious about it, there's plenty in the archives about it. Other posters in the past have talked about the need to go as high as 900 mg. so perhaps that would work. But my pdoc here might be averse to doing that, and besides, it's getting to be very costly, as I have to keep increasing the dosage.
My dr. said that I should give it 4-6 weeks at my present dose. So far, three weeks have passed. My feeling is that if I have no success by mid-February, I will have no choice but to go back to square one and purchase the Parnate in the U.S. But getting through the waiting periods, the phase-outs, and all the transitions takes loads of time--every minute can seem like an eternity-- and today I feel like I'm hanging on a thread. I could go on and on, but I said I'd try to keep it short. That's the med story--success with Parnate, no satisfaction with Remeron or Zoloft, and still waiting and praying for Aurorix to work. Go ahead and ask me anything else you'd like.
Posted by LyndaK on January 26, 2003, at 19:06:42
In reply to In the depths of depression--please help, posted by cubbybear on January 25, 2003, at 9:06:03
Cubbybear,
You've been noticeably absent lately and I feared that maybe you weren't doing so well. I'm sorry you've slipped back down into "the depths". You know I've been there; I've talked about it before.
At this point, it seems like you're more depressed than you were when you started the Aurorix -- yes? No? Shouldn't you be getting SOME relief from the Aurorix at this point?
It seems like social isolation would be the worst thing you could do right now even though it may be what you FEEL like doing. How often and in what way are you around other people? Are you doing any psychotherapy/counseling? Maybe it would be a good thing to do right now to support you while you're trying to get an effective medication in place. Someone mentioned group therapy -- it's hard -- but sometimes it's a more affordable way of getting some therapeutic support.
Keep talking.
Lynda
Posted by cubbybear on January 26, 2003, at 23:50:46
In reply to Re: In the depths of depression--please help » cubbybear, posted by LyndaK on January 26, 2003, at 19:06:42
> Cubbybear,
>
> You've been noticeably absent lately and I feared that maybe you weren't doing so well. I'm sorry you've slipped back down into "the depths". You know I've been there; I've talked about it before.
>
> At this point, it seems like you're more depressed than you were when you started the Aurorix -- yes? No? Shouldn't you be getting SOME relief from the Aurorix at this point?
>
> It seems like social isolation would be the worst thing you could do right now even though it may be what you FEEL like doing. How often and in what way are you around other people? Are you doing any psychotherapy/counseling? Maybe it would be a good thing to do right now to support you while you're trying to get an effective medication in place. Someone mentioned group therapy -- it's hard -- but sometimes it's a more affordable way of getting some therapeutic support.
>
> Keep talking.
> LyndaDear Lynda,
Yes,if you recall, when I started taking the Aurorix at the low dose, it was hoped that maybe it could prevent any relapse of depression. Well, a number of negative "outside" things occurred to cause the depression to return and so my dose was raised from the sub-therapeutic 300 mg. to 600 mg. So, I definitely am suffering infinitely more than I was when I started taking it.You asked, shouldn't you be getting some relief from the Aurorix at this point? The only way I can answer that is to say that my dr. said it would take 4-6 weeks to kick in at therapeutic dose. So far, I've passed 3 weeks. So maybe (hopefully) it will be about 3 weeks longer or less, before I start to get the full benefits. (I'd hate to imagine a situation in which the medication ITSELF actually my depression to worsen). It just seems that so far, the Aurorix is not doing anything, and I've sunk even deeper over the last few days.
As far as social contacts are concerned, the only interactions I have with people are through work, which at least takes my mind off my pain a little, since I have to focus on teaching. To the best of my knowledge, there is no real psychotherapy/counseling here in Thailand, largely as a nature of the Asian culture, and I certainly don't know of any kind of group therapy except for perhaps a local branch of Al Anon. There are two guys who are my co-teachers, who I can call upon for companionship or conversation in emergency. Both of these guys are well acquainted with the horrors of addiction and /or depression so they are helpful to an extent. But that's about it. Please let me know what you think.
Posted by LyndaK on January 29, 2003, at 0:44:51
In reply to Re: In the depths of depression--please help » LyndaK, posted by cubbybear on January 26, 2003, at 23:50:46
Cubbybear,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
> You asked, shouldn't you be getting some relief from the Aurorix at this point? The only way I can answer that is to say that my dr. said it would take 4-6 weeks to kick in at therapeutic dose. So far, I've passed 3 weeks. So maybe (hopefully) it will be about 3 weeks longer or less, before I start to get the full benefits. (I'd hate to imagine a situation in which the medication ITSELF actually my depression to worsen). It just seems that so far, the Aurorix is not doing anything, and I've sunk even deeper over the last few days.I don't think there's a very high probability that the Aurorix is doing anything to actually WORSEN your depression. It would be more of an issue of it just not working. But you're only half way through the 4-6 weeks, so the next few weeks should be more telling, right? I'm trying to be positive here, but to be perfectly honest, I'm really worried that you're not feeling more of an effect at this point.
>
> As far as social contacts are concerned, the only interactions I have with people are through work, which at least takes my mind off my pain a little, since I have to focus on teaching. To the best of my knowledge, there is no real psychotherapy/counseling here in Thailand, largely as a nature of the Asian culture, and I certainly don't know of any kind of group therapy except for perhaps a local branch of Al Anon. There are two guys who are my co-teachers, who I can call upon for companionship or conversation in emergency. Both of these guys are well acquainted with the horrors of addiction and /or depression so they are helpful to an extent. But that's about it. Please let me know what you think.
>
>
I'm glad you have a job and some friends. That's better than jobless and home alone. Maybe posting on this site is the closest thing you have to "Therapy", if so, use it. I don't know what else to say because I know when I was really depressed all I could do was get through my obligations for the day, take my pills, and go to therapy -- that's it! I didn't feel like doing anything else. I didn't want to do anything "fun" because I couldn't experience the FEELING of "fun". Faith and prayer were the only other things I held on to -- I don't know if you're into that. Whether you are or not, I pray for you at night -- for a good nights sleep among other things!I hope your Aurorix starts kicking in soon, and if it doesn't then I hope you're able to make a trip out to the U.S. to get your Parnate.
Keep Talking.
Lynda
Posted by cubbybear on January 29, 2003, at 10:17:45
In reply to Re: In the depths of depression--please help » LyndaK » cubbybear, posted by LyndaK on January 29, 2003, at 0:44:51
Dear Lynda,
You said it--posting on this site is the closest thing I have to therapy at this time. I was feeling a trifle better yesterday, and then today I crashed down deeper than I ever did in any and all previous depressions. Have you ever had that happen? --These little "false starts" where somehow, for some reason, you feel a little better for a day or two, then you go back down again, maybe worse than before?
I slept decently last night--thanks to the Klonopin, but the garbage that goes on regularly in the Thai school system plus a very disturbing E-mail note from my mother threw me into another tailspin today.
My depression actually encompasses SO many issues, all mixed into one unending nightmare. It would fill pages and pages to tell it all and I don't want to burden you with that and don't have the strength to do it now. A couple of things that I'd like you to know, are that there's only one more month of school in the semester here, so if I'm not better by the end of February, it could be a horrible scenario--little or no work to keep me occupied.
I've also been making a pest of myself, phoning my co-teacher friend, Bill (whose former job in California was in social work, treating alcohol and drug addicted people so he has a lot of knowledge about depression.) But I don't want to bother him too much.
My pdoc told me NOT to go running off to the hospital every time I feel a psychological emergency--he's obviously trying to get me to become less dependent andto fight this thing out on my own. But today I felt such horrible pain that I wondered just where do you draw the line? I wasn't feeling consciously suicidal, but I felt bad enough, and wanted to go running into this man's office and cry out for help. I know that there's really nothing they can do for you--it's in your own hands, as well as the meds. Maybe something positive will come out of our regular session on Friday.
You're right to be concerned that I'm still not feeling any effect from the Aurorix at this point. It's worse than ever, in fact, and I will certainly tell him on Friday.
Mty plan is to go the U.S. in March for the Parnate if the Aurorix proves to be a failure. I don't think I told you previously, but my "home" there is L.A. I'd be going there to do personal business then visit my mom and step-father (both in their 70s) in Phoenix.
This whole thing of course, is taking its toll on my mother. Everyone knows what the family of a depressed person has to go through. I thought I could tell my mother most anything about all the meds I've been on (via E-mail) but in her last letter, it was apparent that she misconstrued a lot of stuff and that made matters worse--in other words, it made ME feel worse. Do you get the picture of what's going on here? I'm feeling so utterly sick, I don't know what to do, who to speak to, where to run. I feel like my entire life is hanging on a hair. The pain of deep depression is so horrible.
You talked about faith and prayer. In the traditional sense, I'm not religious, but I pray all the time; I do believe in God or as some people would say, a Higher Power. That's all I can do when I'm lying on my bed feeling the pain.
Lastly, you ended your last note by saying Keep Talking. I guess you mean that I should keep posting. I will do that if you will please keep in touch with me regularly and hold my hand through this ordeal and try to give me hope that I'll survive it and be happy some day again--right now, it seems only like the end is on the way and it'll never stop.
Posted by proud mary on January 29, 2003, at 11:00:19
In reply to Re: In the depths of depression--please help » LyndaK, posted by cubbybear on January 29, 2003, at 10:17:45
This line bothers me, alot:
My pdoc told me NOT to go running off to the hospital every time I feel a psychological emergency--he's obviously trying to get me to become less dependent andto fight this thing out on my own. But today I felt such horrible pain that I wondered just where do you draw the line?
I honestly do not believe that any psychiatric doctor should be telling some one in your state of mind that. They are there to HELP, not put limitations on where or how you get that help. It almost sounds like he's annoyed with you! I've had enough therapy, been to enough psychiatrists and received enough care over the years to know that that is NOT right. You are hurting and practically non-functional; you are hanging in there by a thread, as you said, and it is affecting your perspective and the way you look at things and the way you handle things and the way you think. Does he really expect you to be able to "fight your way out of this?"
Please keep writing to us all and consider, if at all possible, changing pdocs. I don't know the whole of your situation, but if there is any way you can come back to the states and receive the support and proper medical care and medication you need, do it! (my opinion). This is your LIFE we are talking about here, not some character in a novel!
Keep letting us know how its going and please, if it helps at all, know that many of us know what you are going through, have been there ourselves and have come out the other end intact and even better!
Mary
Posted by LyndaK on January 29, 2003, at 13:27:24
In reply to Re: In the depths of depression--please help » LyndaK, posted by cubbybear on January 29, 2003, at 10:17:45
Cubbybear,
I have to agree that I reacted much the same way as Mary at your pdoc's statement about not running to the hospital, but I realize you are dealing with a different culture there. That makes it so much harder.
<<I was feeling a trifle better yesterday, and then today I crashed down deeper than I ever did in any and all previous depressions. Have you ever had that happen? --These little "false starts" where somehow, for some reason, you feel a little better for a day or two, then you go back down again, maybe worse than before? <<
I certainly recall waxing and waning of symptoms even when on medication, but my worst day ON the medication (no matter which one I was on) was always better than my worst day OFF of medication. That's why I KNOW, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that medication makes a difference for me. But no other medication has made the kind of difference that Remeron has made for me, and I think that's pretty much what you've been saying about Parnate for you. I'm not saying that you should abandon the Aurorix trial, but I think the timeframe you've given to judge effectiveness is certainly reasonable -- especially since you are not new to the whole depression/medication thing. You're "seasoned" -- you have past experiences upon which to compare and judge. And you've been on a medication that was truely effective for you and made a SIGNIFICANT impact on your mood and quality of life.
I'm wondering if it would be a good idea for you to make a trip back to the U.S. even if the Aurorix suddently kicked in and started working. You could use the time that school's not in session to come out here and work with a therapist who has a better understanding of your condition and doesn't confuse depression with personal weakness AND who might be able to help you sort out some of the social issues that have caused so much grief. And maybe a visit with your Mom would be a good thing??
You asked about me "keeping in touch regularly" -- ABSOLUTELY I'm willing to do that, and the cool thing about this board is that there's a whole host of other people who are willing to do the same thing because WE'VE ALL BEEN THERE and we know how horrible it is and how important it is to get through it.
Keep Talking (Posting ;-)
Lynda
Posted by deli on January 29, 2003, at 17:31:52
In reply to In the depths of depression--please help, posted by cubbybear on January 25, 2003, at 9:06:03
HI Cubbybear
Last year, I used to surf this site everyday, several times a day. I was suffering the worst episode of my life (and the previous ones were horrible!). I remember finding a certain kind of comfort everytime someone answered my posts. This is a horrible disease.
Many times I prayed to God to give me cancer or something else but not depression. The worst part of this illness is the fear and hopelesness we feel. I haven't posted here for about a year, but periodically I check in to see how everyone is doing or what is new in treatments. You will get better and don't let your brain fool you. I thought I had the worst case of depression in the entire world and I would never get better. But this illness has a beginning, a middle, and an end. The fact that you are feeling a lift if for only one second is a good sign. Keep on taking your meds and don't give up just yet. You still have a couple of weeks before you could see more results. If not, it may take switching meds later on, but I assure you will get better. I had to switch three different times.
Depression is not a disease of the new world. Asians also get depressed. They just don't talk about it. It is still stigmatized as in many other countries. Even here in the U.S. is looked down upon.
One thing that helped immensely was reading the book The Noonday Demon and I think the author goes by the last name Solomon. Reading it made me feel understood. It is easy to read. I hope you can get it in Thailand.
Feel free to post everyday all day if you have to . We all care and we all have been there and some of us are still there. The people in this board are the most caring people you will ever encounter. Don't give up. Soon you will be writing this same letter to someone who is feeling like you.
Posted by cubbybear on January 29, 2003, at 23:52:18
In reply to Re: In the depths of depression--please help, posted by deli on January 29, 2003, at 17:31:52
Dear Deli,
Your message was one of the best, most uplifting and encouraging I've received. I will surely print it out and keep it and re-read it as often as I have to. Yesterday was far worse for me than the day I originally posted. I had actually sunk down even more and the level of pain was unparalleled. So I hope you will stay in conctact with this board in case I want to write directly to you again.
cubbybear
Posted by cubbybear on January 30, 2003, at 0:26:50
In reply to Re: In the depths of depression--please help » LyndaK » cubbybear, posted by LyndaK on January 29, 2003, at 13:27:24
But no other medication has made the kind of difference that Remeron has made for me, and I think that's pretty much what you've been saying about Parnate for you.
I forgot all about you taking Remeron (that's how messed up my concentration and memory has been). I'm very happy for you that you like it and that it's been working out.> I'm wondering if it would be a good idea for you to make a trip back to the U.S. even if the Aurorix suddently kicked in and started working.
Well, I ordinarily make the trip every year in April regardless of how I'm feeling. It's been kind of a tradition for me to go back for about one week to do personal stuff and shop for OTC drug store items, as well as visit my mom once a year. But this year, the trip will have to come in March, if I'm going to wind up switching to Parnate, since I can't wait any longer and I still have an unused prescription for Parnate that will expire on 3/31. (Otherwise, I'd have to go through God-knows how much hassle to get another one). I'm going post a new thread inquiring about doctors who prescribe Parnate in L.A. and Phoenix, in case I'm faced with an urgent situation in getting a new script written.You could use the time that school's not in session to come out here and work with a therapist who has a better understanding of your condition and doesn't confuse depression with personal weakness AND who might be able to help you sort out some of the social issues that have caused so much grief.
That's a great idea but I doubt if I'd have the money to spare for even one private session. What is the going rate now for a one-on-one session (50 minutes) with a psychologist in California? Do you know?
And maybe a visit with your Mom would be a good thing??
I'm afraid I don't understand your tone here. Are you casting DOUBT on my seeing her or suggesting it? Please be honest and explain. (Although I presently feel distanced over her latest E-mail and tendency to get a bit hysterical, I can't imagine going out there and NOT seeing her in a million years.
>
Thanks a million times for everything; if I didn't have this board and people like you, I don't know what I'd do. My pdoc has discouraged extra visits, I'm now feeling somewhat distanced from my Mom (common problem with families who don't understand what depression is like) and I have few friends here. So people like you and everyone else on the board can help sustain me at times like this.
>
cubbybear
Posted by cubbybear on January 30, 2003, at 1:06:35
In reply to Re: In the depths of depression--please help » LyndaK, posted by proud mary on January 29, 2003, at 11:00:19
> This line bothers me, alot:
>
> My pdoc told me NOT to go running off to the hospital every time I feel a psychological emergency--he's obviously trying to get me to become less dependent andto fight this thing out on my own. But today I felt such horrible pain that I wondered just where do you draw the line?
>
> I honestly do not believe that any psychiatric doctor should be telling some one in your state of mind that. They are there to HELP, not put limitations on where or how you get that help. It almost sounds like he's annoyed with you! I've had enough therapy, been to enough psychiatrists and received enough care over the years to know that that is NOT right. You are hurting and practically non-functional; you are hanging in there by a thread, as you said, and it is affecting your perspective and the way you look at things and the way you handle things and the way you think. Does he really expect you to be able to "fight your way out of this?"
>
> Please keep writing to us all and consider, if at all possible, changing pdocs. I don't know the whole of your situation, but if there is any way you can come back to the states and receive the support and proper medical care and medication you need, do it! (my opinion). This is your LIFE we are talking about here, not some character in a novel!Proud Mary,
The depression is bad enough, but now I'm starting to get conflicting advice.Such is the nature of this board. First understand, that in a place like Bangkok Thailand, psychiatrists are extremely hard to come by, much less decent/good ones. Secondly, I can partially understand his point, although you are also right.
Third, if I can just hang on somehow for about one month, I will come to the U.S. and get the medication I know will work (not available here). I need to somehow hang on till the end of February, since I am a teacher, and quitting before the end of the school year/contract would cause me to be penalized monetarily and lose a hefty bonus. I was even planning on returning here after the trip to the U.S. This is not just a holiday, but an extended stay (four years now), in case you didn't know. There's just so much involved. . .I'm convinced, however, that most if not all of this is hinging on my getting the right medication and making the best of what I have with my current doctor here.
Posted by LyndaK on January 30, 2003, at 2:55:06
In reply to Re: In the depths of depression--please help » LyndaK, posted by cubbybear on January 30, 2003, at 0:26:50
I'm going post a new thread inquiring about doctors who prescribe Parnate in L.A. and Phoenix, in case I'm faced with an urgent situation in getting a new script written.
Good idea. Wish I could help but I live in San Jose.
>
> You could use the time that school's not in session to come out here and work with a therapist who has a better understanding of your condition and doesn't confuse depression with personal weakness AND who might be able to help you sort out some of the social issues that have caused so much grief.
>
> That's a great idea but I doubt if I'd have the money to spare for even one private session. What is the going rate now for a one-on-one session (50 minutes) with a psychologist in California? Do you know?You have a good point. I had to quit seeing the psychologist that I was seeing for individual therapy because I couldn't afford him once he made the decision to not accept insurance anymore. His rate was $125.00 per session though he was willing to negotiate his fee a bit based on ability to pay -- but even the lower fee he offered was more than I felt comfortable paying out considering my husband is unemployed and I work part time. I stayed in group therapy (run by the same therapist) because it was more affordable - 180.00 per month. I have no idea how these fees compare to anyone else out there.
>
> And maybe a visit with your Mom would be a good thing??
> I'm afraid I don't understand your tone here. Are you casting DOUBT on my seeing her or suggesting it? Please be honest and explain. (Although I presently feel distanced over her latest E-mail and tendency to get a bit hysterical, I can't imagine going out there and NOT seeing her in a million years.I'm so sorry if I offended you! The question marks were just an expression of my own uncertainty about what you meant in your last post. I didn't realize you made yearly trips out to see your mom anyways.
I'm a mom of two little boys (5 and 7) and I understand the "hysterical" thing. I thought I was a worrier before, but nothing compares to the kind of worry I feel when I'm worrying about my kids. When they're in pain, I feel it too. I'm not sure that changes all that much just because the kids grow up.
> >
> Thanks a million times for everything; if I didn't have this board and people like you, I don't know what I'd do. My pdoc has discouraged extra visits, I'm now feeling somewhat distanced from my Mom (common problem with families who don't understand what depression is like) and I have few friends here. So people like you and everyone else on the board can help sustain me at times like this.
> >
> cubbybear
>
Glad you're able to find some comfort here.
I'll keep lookin' for ya!
Lynda
Posted by cubbybear on January 30, 2003, at 9:34:17
In reply to Re: In the depths of depression--please help » LyndaK » cubbybear, posted by LyndaK on January 30, 2003, at 2:55:06
> You have a good point. I had to quit seeing the psychologist that I was seeing for individual therapy because I couldn't afford him once he made the decision to not accept insurance anymore. His rate was $125.00 per sessionWhen I first started therapy with a psychologist back in 1970 in New York (I was 21 then), the fee was $25 per hour!!. I don't know how anyone can afford triple-digit charges these days, or even a so-called "reduced" rate. $125 sounds absolutely staggering to me. God knows how many millions of people are suffering because they can't afford counselling, not to mention the whole problem of finding the right meds for their depression.
.
> I'm so sorry if I offended you! The question marks were just an expression of my own uncertainty about what you meant in your last post. I didn't realize you made yearly trips out to see your mom anyways.
You didn't offend me. And I apologize if I got you rattled. My depression and/or personality just makes me so super-sensitive and that's part of my overall problem, if you know what I mean.
>
> I'm a mom of two little boys (5 and 7) and I understand the "hysterical" thing. I thought I was a worrier before, but nothing compares to the kind of worry I feel when I'm worrying about my kids. When they're in pain, I feel it too. I'm not sure that changes all that much just because the kids grow up.So now I know a bit more about you. . .as for your saying, "I'm not sure that changes all that much just because the kids grow up," I'll just tell you that I just turned 54 and my Mom is 74 and the maternal worrying never stops. I guess it's the so-called maternal instinct. So much more could be said. We'll stay in touch.
cubbybear
Posted by proud mary on January 30, 2003, at 14:18:38
In reply to Re: In the depths of depression--please help » LyndaK, posted by proud mary on January 29, 2003, at 11:00:19
cubby, are you asian yourself? or do you just work overseas? I am confused. My cousin is american and lives in Cairo, Eygpt and is a teacher in an International school. She's been there for three years now and she's not signing a new contract so she's coming back to the states and will find ANOTHER overseas teaching position (or administrative position). My point is, I don't know your living situation at all (I don't even know if you are married) but maybe you should think about another teaching situation in another country or back here, if possible. There is nothing more important than your health and happiness. I'm sorry you are having such a bad time and that there is so little help available. Like Lynda, I didn't mean to offend you--I just know how vulnerable a person can be when they are depressed and I'd hate to see anyone make you feel like it's YOUR fault, when it isn't. OR that you should be "strong" enough to fight your way out of it.
I don't know if I have much more to offer at this point exept to listen and respond occasionally to let you know I'm listening...and that we ALL care.
Hang in there...Mary
Posted by cubbybear on January 30, 2003, at 23:58:18
In reply to Re: In the depths of depression--please help, posted by proud mary on January 30, 2003, at 14:18:38
Mary,
To answer your questions, I'm not Asian. I was born in New York, then moved to California in '88, relocated and taught in Thailand in '97, returned to the U.S. during the Asian financial crisis in '97 (which triggered a severe depression then as well), then I recovered and returned to Thailand in '99 where I've been living ever since. I am single and live alone.When someone asks me why I am here, or why did I come to Thailand, I have to say that the answers could fill a book. Part of it is highly personal, part is religious/spiritual, part is political (I positively hate living in the U.S.) My ways of thinking and philosophies are very much Eastern or Buddhist oriented. So the last thing I want to do is to return permanently to the U.S. I'm praying that I can get through this horror by hanging on another month, making my annual trip to the U.S. in March, picking up the medication there that I know would help me (MAO Parnate) then returning to teach here again.
Of course, we never know what tomorrow will bring--be it either with the impending war in Iraq or the asinine Thai government (another story), but believe me, having to relocate back to the U.S. would open up a can of worms of perhaps bigger proportions.
Since I'm so badly depressed, it nearly seems like a no-win situation, but if I can just get through this next month, and pick up the Parnate in the U.S. and hang in there till it kicks in, I'm virtually certain that I'll get out of this mess. This is just a little synopsis of my situation.
Posted by LyndaK on January 31, 2003, at 0:28:42
In reply to Re: In the depths of depression--please help » LyndaK, posted by cubbybear on January 30, 2003, at 9:34:17
> When I first started therapy with a psychologist back in 1970 in New York (I was 21 then), the fee was $25 per hour!!. I don't know how anyone can afford triple-digit charges these days, or even a so-called "reduced" rate. $125 sounds absolutely staggering to me. God knows how many millions of people are suffering because they can't afford counselling, not to mention the whole problem of finding the right meds for their depression.I agree. Altruism and the medical establishment just don't seem to go together. Of course, I'm saying that out of ignorance of what liability insurance costs. His fee may be on the high side though. It may still be worth your while to check out fees in the L.A. area.
> You didn't offend me. And I apologize if I got you rattled. My depression and/or personality just makes me so super-sensitive and that's part of my overall problem, if you know what I mean.
I understand. I'm glad no offense was taken.
>I'll just tell you that I just turned 54 and my Mom is 74 and the maternal worrying never stops. I guess it's the so-called maternal instinct.I chuckled out loud! I guess you've confirmed my suspicion about maternal worrying. I'm 40 and my mom's 65 and it's the same deal.
So, I've got 2 curiosity questions for you:
1. What do you teach?
2. What's the meaning/story behind "cubbybear"?Catch ya later.
Lynda
Posted by cubbybear on January 31, 2003, at 0:43:35
In reply to Re: In the depths of depression--please help » LyndaK » cubbybear, posted by LyndaK on January 31, 2003, at 0:28:42
> So, I've got 2 curiosity questions for you:
> 1. What do you teach?
> 2. What's the meaning/story behind "cubbybear"?
>
> 1-I teach English (as a Second Language) to native Thai students and piano to kids, but unfortunately there are very few opportunities here for the latter, which I enjoy more. There are plenty of opportunities to teach English, however.2-a bear cub is small and quite hairy. A former friend or two came up with a nickname like little bear or something like that. I'm only 5 ft. 5-1/2 in.
Ttonight I have my session with my pdoc and no doubt some crucial things will be discussed. Will keep you posted.
cubbybear (Steve)
>
>
>
>
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 31, 2003, at 1:07:27
In reply to Re: In the depths of depression--please help, posted by deli on January 29, 2003, at 17:31:52
> One thing that helped immensely was reading the book The Noonday Demon and I think the author goes by the last name Solomon.
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
But I don't mean to be pushy. Did you deliberately not use it to link to Amazon? If so, I'd be interested in why, over at Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by proud mary on January 31, 2003, at 9:19:04
In reply to Re: In the depths of depression--please help » proud mary, posted by cubbybear on January 30, 2003, at 23:58:18
Cubby,
Thank you for sharing that information with me, I know it's not necessarily appropriate for me to get into that on a meds message board.
I think the best course for me and even the others is to help you get through this month and just be here to talk to you. You seem to know what you need and maybe us being here to talk to will help you get through each day a little bit better. I do remember those days...they seemed like an eternity. However, just keep taking it one day at a time and we'll be here to keep you going (as much as we can).
I have all the respect in the world for other religions/philosophies/different ways of thinking, so I do understand. My brother lived in Indonesia for many, many years. Oil brought him there initially but it did become his home. He married an indonesian woman and it took my mom telling me one year, at Christmas, that Indonesia WAS his home (when I said something dumb that indicated that he must want to be "home" for christmas) for the light bulb to go off in my head and for me to realize that just because I am such a home-body (Texas, USA, even live in the same house I grew up in!) that not everyone is that way!
My brother is dead now, rather unexpectly, but between him, my cousin in Cairo and my other brother who lives in Angola and really loves it, that I AM the oddball who is so attached to my life/town/ country.
I get afraid that dr. bob is going to redirect me to the psychological babble sometimes because I ramble off and don't talk about meds...
just hope it helps you get through your day to have something to read and know that we are all rooting for you!
:>)
Mary
Posted by cubbybear on January 31, 2003, at 10:42:16
In reply to Re: In the depths of depression--please help » proud mary, posted by proud mary on January 31, 2003, at 9:19:04
This message is for all of you wonderful people who have been so supportive to me on this thread. I just wanted to update all of you on what I've decided to do. Drawing upon part intuition, part experience and just plain survival instinct, I made the decision today to be upfront with my pdoc at our session tonight and say, "I want to stop taking the Aurorix!" So I told him, and he agreed. (It would be a gradual phaseout, of course.)
The fact is: I gave this med a full month trial and I wound up feeling a billion times worse after one month than the way I felt when I started it. I know that some people who are familiar with Aurorix would encourage me to try increasing the dose, but my gut feeling was that something was terribly wrong here--it turned out to be a very bad match--and I have to shift gears into reverse.
As far as my pdoc's reactions were concerned: he fully agreed that the med had failed at regular therapeutic dose. He was not inclined to increase the dose (using the phrase "therapeutic window", which I still don't really understand). He mentioned the option of augmenting the Aurorix with a small amount of Risperdal, but I cringed when I heard the word "anti-psychotic" and want no part of it. . I don't want to start fooling around with these drug "cocktails" that so many people are monkeying around with. Besides, it woud have doubled my costs and I couldn't afford the cost of the Risperdal even if I wanted it.
My pdoc expressed some concern about how my depression will be faring in the coming weeks as I phase out the Aurorix, but all I know is, I've got to get this drug out of my system and go back to square one--which is MAO Parnate, which was my life saver for 18 years. I will hopefully get my trip plans in motion to pick it up in the U.S., hopefully in March. There's a lot more that I can add, but at least I made a decision that will hopefully lead to happines and relief before long.
Posted by LyndaK on February 1, 2003, at 3:29:17
In reply to Re: In the depths of depression--please help » LyndaK, posted by cubbybear on January 31, 2003, at 0:43:35
There must be some sense of relief in your decision to end the Aurorix trial, and a sense of hope in having a definite "next step" in place. Now you just gotta hang in there 'till March. You can do it!
Thanks for anwering my "curious" questions. I'm into music too. I play a few instruments but enjoy playing my Recorder the best. I'm playing a solo in church tomorrow. Guess I better get some sleep!
You sounded more confident in your last post. Hope you're feeling that way too.
Lynda
Posted by cubbybear on February 1, 2003, at 5:05:12
In reply to Your Decision » cubbybear, posted by LyndaK on February 1, 2003, at 3:29:17
> There must be some sense of relief in your decision to end the Aurorix trial, and a sense of hope in having a definite "next step" in place. Now you just gotta hang in there 'till March. You can do it!
You sounded more confident in your last post. Hope you're feeling that way too.
>
Oh, Lynda, I have to tell you no, I know I sounded better last night and for a little while I felt good about having made the decision, but the depression took such a turn for the worse today that I had to tell myself, "put your feet on the floor and get off that bed and do what you have to do." (personal errands) I can barefly do anything; the depression is nearly paralyzing me. I have no appetite in the least, so I have to force myself to eat. I honestly don't know how much longer I can hang on. I could have taken some Xanax to take the edge off it, and my pdoc spelled out the absolute safe limit I could take since I'm already taking Klonopin regularly, (another benzo) so I held off. I was tempted to dash off to the hospital again, but resisted the temptation there too. I know that there's really nothing they can do for me at this point except just let me rest there for a while and take my blood pressure, etc.It's not like getting a wound stitched up or a broken leg put in a cast.
I have never known the pain of severe depression like I do now. I just keep on praying . . . I don't want to wind up being admitted to the hospital or feel suicidal. I can't afford to lose my job at this point. So much is at stake. When I get the Parnate, I'll then have to hang in another 3+ weeks until it kicks in. We're looking at nearly 2 whole months more till I can get some lasting relief. i don't know how I can last that long the way I feel right now. Please stay in touch. Can you handle me posting every day or nearly every day, if I have to? I don't want to become a nuisance to you. (Of course, anyone and everyone who's reading my posts can express some sympathetic words too.)
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