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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 28. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by omega man on June 9, 2002, at 14:51:41
It works for me.....every breakfast..fried steak...not burgers or pork...just real steak...
Posted by JennyJen on June 9, 2002, at 15:20:41
In reply to Eating steak for depression...?, posted by omega man on June 9, 2002, at 14:51:41
Posted by beardedlady on June 9, 2002, at 15:35:12
In reply to Eating steak for depression...?, posted by omega man on June 9, 2002, at 14:51:41
Ever notice how if you drink too much the night before, you need a cheese steak sub or something with greasy meat for breakfast? I thought it was the dehydrating effects of alcohol. Maybe it's the depressive effects?
beardy : )>
Posted by omega man on June 9, 2002, at 17:31:03
In reply to you're right!, posted by beardedlady on June 9, 2002, at 15:35:12
I thinks its the trytophine or whatever you call it..that helps produce 5HT..but thats not why i'm replying...i've seen a lot of good handles..but beardedlady is the best...or how about hairybreasts ?
Posted by beardedlady on June 9, 2002, at 19:45:12
In reply to Re: you're right! » beardedlady, posted by omega man on June 9, 2002, at 17:31:03
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20020517/msgs/24127.html
Posted by Seamus2 on June 9, 2002, at 21:31:46
In reply to Eating steak for depression...?, posted by omega man on June 9, 2002, at 14:51:41
Ya know, you might be onto something?
I used to do that a long, long time ago (1984 or so) and have thought about establishing that routine again and again. At the time I was taking protriptyline (sp?)(Vivactyl), my depression under control, and I got out and worked and did stuff.
Might just be breakfast itself, but tend to think it involves the protein as well. Would have a couple eggs and some non-greasy hashbrowns, too. Plus some coffee and big glass of milk (whole).
Just an idle thought.
Seamus
Posted by IsoM on June 10, 2002, at 0:09:08
In reply to Re: Eating steak for depression...?, posted by Seamus2 on June 9, 2002, at 21:31:46
I hate breakfasts & won't eat till I get hungry. Then I do like a high protein meal first thing. I snack very lightly the rest of the day on carbs (if I'm very active) for energy, then eat something fairly high in carbs with some protein in the early evening to give me a good night's sleep.
I don't know if I react somewhat differently than many to food as I have narcolepsy, but if I eat carbs & low protein as my first meal of the day, I want to head right back to bed. As it is, if I eat a regular size meal any time, I get very sleepy & dopey.
Posted by Seamus2 on June 10, 2002, at 2:14:14
In reply to Protein in morning, carbs before bed, posted by IsoM on June 10, 2002, at 0:09:08
Okay, now I'm interested...
What do you find are the most complex "complex carbohydrates"? I'm thinking sustained energy release -- I don't want my blood sugar levels to wander.
I used to have rice in the morning; and an old roommate swore by oatmeal.
I too feel dopey after almost any meal, and would rather graze after a high protein breakfast.
Seamus
Posted by Bookgurl99 on June 10, 2002, at 8:33:06
In reply to Re: you're right! » beardedlady, posted by omega man on June 9, 2002, at 17:31:03
Off topic, but one of my friends, who used to be a woman and has transitioned to male , used to publish a 'zine under "Mom's Beard Press".
Posted by IsoM on June 10, 2002, at 13:49:21
In reply to Re: Protein in morning, carbs before bed » IsoM, posted by Seamus2 on June 10, 2002, at 2:14:14
Seamus, I'll try to give as much info as needed (that I know about).
Complex carbohydrates are simply starches in one form or another - a big lump of cooked cornstarch is just as much a 'complex carbohydrate' as whole grain breads. To slow the absorption of sugars from digested starches, include fibre. So yes, your friend's oatmeal gave a more sustained blood sugar level than rice. Mind you, if you ate a mix of fibrous veggies & some meat or tofu with it, it would be better than oatmeal.
I've read that what most people feel as a dip in their blood sugar levels, isn't. It's the natural switch as the body turns to stored reserves after the recently eaten food's supply runs out. Some people are more sensitve to this switch-over & can 'feel' it. Eating a *small* amount of food will correct it again.
My ex- was diabetic & had a bl. sugar monitor. One time I tested my blood sugar through the day. Hadn't eaten any breakfast & when I tested about noon, my blood sugar reading was at 5.4 (good reading). Then I ate a large amount of something very sweet, retested after half-hour & it now was at 5.5. All readings later stayed in that same range. It seemed no matter what I ate or didn't eat, my blood sugar readings stayed even. So perhaps, I'm one who is more sensitive too. The sleepy feeling that you & I get may have more to do with other natural chemicals & neurotransmitters released than blood sugar levels.
My favourite grazing foods are nuts, a nice combo of carbs & proteins - a little goes a long way AND I'm getting EFAs too. I like a small amount of my bread too. I make it with lots of protein - equal, I've read, to the protein content of meat. Protein with carbohydrates also keep blood sugar levels even.
Posted by InsomniaMom on June 10, 2002, at 20:52:30
In reply to Eating steak for depression...?, posted by omega man on June 9, 2002, at 14:51:41
Steak's O.K., but salmon is my favorite breakfast food. I could probably eat it three times a day. It's really high in one of the good fatty acids (can't remember if it's Omega 3 or 6, though I imagine someone named "omega man" will know). I've read it's good for depression, which is probably why I crave it.
Posted by jay on June 11, 2002, at 1:40:59
In reply to Eating steak for depression...?, posted by omega man on June 9, 2002, at 14:51:41
> It works for me.....every breakfast..fried steak...not burgers or pork...just real steak...
Yeah...not for breakfast, but I just drool over a nice thick BBQ steak, baked potato with a bit of garlic and butter..and a nice thick french bread stick..mmmm :-) The only healthy thing I eat is salad, but I ruin that by putting a few gallons of dressing on, bacon bits, chick peas, bread crumbs, cheese..oww gaawwd help me!..heh.
Maybe I *should* start eating steak at breakfast. Mind you, I do love a pound of bacon, french toast, pancakes, maybe some sausage...a drum of syrup.
Oh..now I am going to bad-eaters-Hell for sure..lol!
Jay
(I also happen to be in love with the Double Big Gulp at the moment, as well as DQ hot fudge sundaes, blizzards, and the Double Quarter Pounder Super Sized Extra Value Meal.....if that doesn't send me to my grave..lol!)
Posted by Seamus2 on June 11, 2002, at 9:30:54
In reply to Re: Protein in morning, carbs before bed » Seamus2, posted by IsoM on June 10, 2002, at 13:49:21
> To slow the absorption of sugars from digested starches, include fibre<<
I didn't know that! Thanks for the info.
Posted by InsomniaMom on June 11, 2002, at 11:01:21
In reply to Re: Protein in morning, carbs before bed, posted by Seamus2 on June 11, 2002, at 9:30:54
You might also be interested in the glycemic index of foods, which has established how quickly certain foods are metabolized into sugar after consumption. Apparently, a baked potato gives you more of a sugar rush than table sugar...no wonder I was absolutely addicted to them! This is not only helpful for diabetics as high glycemic index foods wreak havoc with insulin levels, but also some people's moods and concentration levels seem to be affected by foods based on their glycemic index counts. Here is a link (if I followed the istructions properly) to an article which explains it in more detail.
http://www.seasoned.com/issues/200009/c.hf.p1.htmlUnfortunately, the link within the article to the list of foods seems to no longer be active, but if you do a search for "glycemic index" you can pull up some tables with the index ratings for certain foods. Looks like some extensive ones are availble if you are willing to put up with a long download.
I think one of the main reasons Atkins Diet works if you can stick to it (my husband lost 75 lbs)is that the forbidden carbs are those with the high glycemic index ratings.
Geez...why am I suddenly ravenous for a baked potato!? I'd better go find some fish fast! =)
Posted by IsoM on June 11, 2002, at 13:06:43
In reply to Re: Eating steak for depression...? » omega man, posted by jay on June 11, 2002, at 1:40:59
I laughed when I read your post, Jay. Thought you might like to read this article from the Atlantic Monthly on why McDonald's food & other fast-foods taste so good.
http://www.rense.com/general7/whyy.htm
Posted by jonh kimble on June 11, 2002, at 17:42:40
In reply to Yummy tasting foods...? » jay, posted by IsoM on June 11, 2002, at 13:06:43
i have learned the hard way that if i dont eat for a long time (8 hrs) i get REALLY depressed and negative. doctor said probably blood sugar, but i had it tested when i was feeling the worst i ever have (hadnt eaten for many hours) and my blood sugar, electrolites, iron, b's and all that was just fine! also he suggested drinking orange juice to raise blood sugar but that does nothing. only high protein foods help. many others in my family are like this but dont have blood sugar problems. i know protein has tyrosine and phenylalanine (tryptophan too) and these build neurotransmitters, but this is just a guess.
Anyone have any insight here?
jon
Posted by beardedlady on June 11, 2002, at 18:12:32
In reply to Yummy tasting foods...? » jay, posted by IsoM on June 11, 2002, at 13:06:43
Posted by IsoM on June 12, 2002, at 0:47:49
In reply to meaty fries: it's why they're being sued! (nm) » IsoM, posted by beardedlady on June 11, 2002, at 18:12:32
Posted by IsoM on June 12, 2002, at 0:59:28
In reply to I get really depressed when i dont eat, posted by jonh kimble on June 11, 2002, at 17:42:40
John, reading up on blood sugar levels, I came across one doctor's idea that when the body switches from its available blood sugar to a stored source like glycogen (stored in the liver), certain people are very sensitive to this switch-over. Kind of like vehicles with two gas tanks, when it switches from the empty first tank to the second full one. Some people notice the difference & react to it, feeling somewhat like they're having a low blood sugar reaction but it's not low.
You may be one of those people. The doctor didn't suggest a little sugar but instead a small amount of "food" to even out the switch over. Protein in your diet gives a much longer sustained blood sugar level - far longer than just carbohydrates & that's possibly why you feel better from eating protein. It's possible if you ate something that was only protein (like egg whites) you wouldn't feel as good.
Incidently, for anyone else that may be reading this - even though tryptophan is an amino acid (part of protein), it doesn't readily cross the blood-brain barrier. It crosses into the brain easiest when insulin levels are high. So after a meal containing carbohydrates & the insulin level rises to store the excess glucose as glycogen in the liver, any tryptophan circulating in the blood will make it to the brain more readily to be converted to serotonin. Hence that sleepy feeling after eating something starchy or sweet.
Posted by JonW on June 12, 2002, at 2:03:18
In reply to meaty fries: it's why they're being sued! (nm) » IsoM, posted by beardedlady on June 11, 2002, at 18:12:32
Posted by Iago Camboa on June 13, 2002, at 5:36:24
In reply to Re: I get really depressed when i dont eat » jonh kimble, posted by IsoM on June 12, 2002, at 0:59:28
> Incidently, for anyone else that may be reading this - even though tryptophan is an amino acid (part of protein), it doesn't readily cross the blood-brain barrier. It crosses into the brain easiest when insulin levels are high. So after a meal containing carbohydrates & the insulin level rises to store the excess glucose as glycogen in the liver, any tryptophan circulating in the blood will make it to the brain more readily to be converted to serotonin. Hence that sleepy feeling after eating something starchy or sweet.
Iso, you are the most beautiful & precious jewel in all PB, forgive me but I have to say. This is only to send you a Bravo! on all your recent contributions to the excellence of this board none the least your posts on 'Profit Driven Industries'... I also owe you one of the most beautiful & elegant expressions of the English language, namely 'zest for life'. How I understand you and how I admire your calm and tranquil state of mind!
Just like you 'if I eat a regular size meal any time, I get very sleepy & dopey', even with the adrafinil. Especially in spring & summer, everyday after lunch I have dreadful nap attacks: I hate the Spanish 'siesta time' but if I get on bed (in weekends & during summer vacations) I sleep all afternoon, which kills my early morning sleep: I wake then at 6 am (or earlier still) & have to get up & take a long walk with the dog... This 'guy' (I call him often by 'comrade dog') is the only creature who seems intent to agree with my sleeping tendencies... I was not that way when I was a young man, but after 40-45 I turned out a copy of my mother (who was a very active lady but after dinner slept like a child...). Do what?
Always truly yours,
Iago
Posted by Kat26 on June 13, 2002, at 12:09:05
In reply to Re: I get really depressed when i dont eat, posted by Iago Camboa on June 13, 2002, at 5:36:24
I have realized that I feel much better if I eat small meals during the day. I am also one of those people who get sleepy after a big meal. Actually, I sometimes even think I feel bst when i am slightly hungry, but that may be a remainder from a long battle with eating disorders.
At night I usually like to eat a BIG snack. Of course it is very controversial how healthy that may be ;-)... I realized that I may be doing that to calm myself down and induce sleep?Kat26
Posted by IsoM on June 13, 2002, at 21:22:36
In reply to Re: I get really depressed when i dont eat, posted by Iago Camboa on June 13, 2002, at 5:36:24
Very nice that you've got a pet that shares your sleep schedule. My cats have nicely adjusted themselves to me & my irregular schedule. My work shifts vary so my waking times vary too. Because sleeping easily is never a problem with me, I don't mind really. When I'm active, my cats are too. When I sit down to read or watch TV, they curl up near by. AND they sleep through the night - I'll often wake up to find them asleep in the same spot from the night before.
Iago, you're from Portugal - you should be used to the idea of siestas, or don't the Portuguese make use of them? I've loved the idea since I was a child - a long nap through the heat of the day & then continue longer in the cooler hours of the evening & night. Testing on hundreds of individuals by sleep research labs has shown that world-wide, regardless of culture, people experience a normal slump between 2:00-4:00 PM(roughly). All body functions slow down just like it does 12 hours later in the dead of night except not as greatly. People perform much better mentally & physically if they're able to nap daily. (So all you people who are sleepy mid-day - it just shows we're closer to perfection!)
"I was not that way when I was a young man, but after 40-45 I turned out a copy of my mother (who was a very active lady but after dinner slept like a child...). Do what?"
Was this just a rhetorical question, or were you asking about something? I'm not sure from the above quote. Let me know.I'd never describe myself in the lyrical language you used i.e. "most beautiful & precious jewel" but thank you. I do enjoy life greatly & can feel imbued with elation for life but I wonder if more wouldn't feel it too, if only this present stresses didn't weigh upon them so much. Enthusiasm begats enthusiasm.
Posted by IsoM on June 13, 2002, at 21:29:26
In reply to Re: I get really depressed when i dont eat, posted by Iago Camboa on June 13, 2002, at 5:36:24
I'm curious if you work in mathematics at all as two mathematicians (Dubner & Forbes) were informed about a large prime Pythagorean triangle by a Iago Camboa. Was that you? The name isn't that common here but perhaps it's more common in the Mediterranean area.
Posted by Iago Camboa on June 14, 2002, at 5:28:36
In reply to Iago, are you a mathematician? » Iago Camboa, posted by IsoM on June 13, 2002, at 21:29:26
That large 'prime Pythagorean triangle' is 'mine' yes (Jul 8, 1999), though unfortunately I myself in no way compare with the two great mathematicians you quote, namely [Harvey] Dubner & [Tony] Forbes. Those yes are 'great indeed' & both score countless 1st order contributions to 'Contemporary Number Theory'. That little contribution of mine was remarkable at the time only because those primes were found 4 days only
after Harvey himself introduced the very concept of '(large) Pythagorean triangles with prime leg and hypotenuse' (in a post to a 'list' of N. Dakota Uni.) and gave the first examples thereof. I just put one of my computers at the job and was fortunate enough to hit a much greater 'jackpot' in less than 4 days (it could have taken weeks or months...). The 'lucky' primes were:A=1491*2^17783+1 (5,357 digits)
C=((1491*2^17783+1)^2+1)/2 (10,713 digits)(These can of course be checked to be prime in less than a minute in any ordinary modern PC- finding them was quite another story though)
[off topic all the time, sorry...]
> I'm curious if you work in mathematics at all as two mathematicians (Dubner & Forbes) were informed about a large prime Pythagorean triangle by a Iago Camboa. Was that you? The name isn't that common here but perhaps it's more common in the Mediterranean area.
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