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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Delphine on November 9, 2001, at 18:08:08
I want to die. I don't have any plan or anything. I just feel that way. I don't want to tell my doc because I'm afraid he'll be disappointed after all the effort he has put in me. And I have betrayed him. I said I wouldn't drink and I have. I said I would respect my prescription and I haven't. I was hoping "this" (this evil depression) would go away a month ago so I didn't say anything. It hasn't. What now? I think I should call the hospital, maybe. But then I'll be a huge fucking disappointment and they'll put me on APs or something. I don't want that. I would rather die.
Posted by jazzdog on November 9, 2001, at 19:00:58
In reply to I want to die, posted by Delphine on November 9, 2001, at 18:08:08
Hi Delphine -
It sounds to me like the safety of a hospital might be a good thing right now. Don't worry about your doctor - he's there to help you, and I can guarantee that he'd be truly upset if you were to harm yourself. Remember, no matter how dark it gets, this too shall pass. - Jane
Posted by akc on November 9, 2001, at 19:38:46
In reply to I want to die, posted by Delphine on November 9, 2001, at 18:08:08
I have been where you are at. And one of my biggest worries was that I was letting my doc down. It is hard to share this stuff with your doc -- I know -- it was for me. I kept her out and went ahead with my plan. I found out she was there no matter what -- and I'm guessing your doc will be also. But it sure is easier for them to help now, not later. Give your doc a call and tell him what you have told us. Stay safe, even if you have to go to the hospital. Don't worry what meds they might suggest -- that's down the road. Your safety is what is important right now.
The pain is very great right now. And it is hard to believe it will ever pass. No matter how many of us that tell you it will, it won't seem like it will. You will just have to take a small step in trust -- by calling your doc or going to the hospital. I know how hard this is. I've been in your shoes.akc
Posted by ttt on November 9, 2001, at 20:08:05
In reply to I want to die, posted by Delphine on November 9, 2001, at 18:08:08
You can go to the hospital, just walk right in. Tell them what med to do not want to take.
They will not give you what you do not want.
Tell them how you feel. They will take good care of you and you will feel better the next day.
Posted by paxvox on November 9, 2001, at 20:41:38
In reply to I want to die, posted by Delphine on November 9, 2001, at 18:08:08
Delphine,
I will try not to patronize you, but you may take me as being "blunt". Apologies beforehand.
OK,if you were going to kill yourself, or REALLY wanted to do so, you 1)wouldn't have posted and 2)would probably already be dead. So, I take your posting as a search for support to help you unnderstand WHY you feel as you do. I have been in your shoes, and yes, it's the dissapointment of others, rather than a concern for my own welfare that kept me ticking.
Looking back on it, that is SO STUPID!!! You are talking about a very precious thing... a life.... YOURS!!! God knows how things have changed since those days when the only way out looked like a one-way trip. I look back sometimes and ask myself, "how could I have been so stupid?"
The only reason I could POSSIBLY justify suicide would be at the latter stages of a terminal illness, when one is in intractable pain.
I don't know your circumstances, but I suggest your pain, though VERY REAL, is also VERY TREATABLE.
So, yes, I concur with the others. If you are obsessing on suicide,go to the ER now, don't worry about who you piss off or piss on! YOU, no matter how deeply you think you may have fallen, are far too valuable to throw away, far too much of a miracle to waste. Get some help, feel better, tell us how it went, we can laugh and cry together here.
PAX
Posted by Mair on November 9, 2001, at 20:52:54
In reply to Re: I want to die » Delphine, posted by paxvox on November 9, 2001, at 20:41:38
Delphine - I can certainly identify with the feeling that you'd be seen as a failure by your pdoc. Also I used to worry that if my therapist really knew in what bad shape I was, she'd dump me because she could replace me with a less troublesome easier-to-treat patient. One true measure of a competent pdoc or therapist is that they don't take this personally and have the patience and persistence to see you through this. Once i accepted that my therapist wasn't going to abandon me, we started working together more effectively. Also, as everyone else has said, your pdoc will be a whole lot more upset if you act on your impulse.
Mair
Posted by Phil on November 9, 2001, at 21:58:24
In reply to I want to die, posted by Delphine on November 9, 2001, at 18:08:08
You talk like you've failed because your depression hasn't lifted or you've made mistakes and everyone will be disappointed.
You and I are blessed(sarcastic) with a very serious disease which makes us also feel guilty for having it. The disease makes us ashamed that we've failed.
What other disease, not brought on by an unhealthy lifestyle or whatever, makes you feel ashamed and want to die because you have it.
Psychiatrist's KNOW what you're dealing with and it's not your fault.
The sun will shine again, trust others enough to let them help you and do what they are trained to do.
You seem to be as hard on yourself as I am..and that ain't easy. It's sometimes hard to believe but there are a lot of GOOD people out there.Keep us posted, please?
Phil
Posted by adamie on November 9, 2001, at 22:10:14
In reply to I want to die, posted by Delphine on November 9, 2001, at 18:08:08
hi Delphine. want to get married? just a possibility. I too am feeling a bit hopeless but in the end I think I will survive. take care
> I want to die. I don't have any plan or anything. I just feel that way. I don't want to tell my doc because I'm afraid he'll be disappointed after all the effort he has put in me. And I have betrayed him. I said I wouldn't drink and I have. I said I would respect my prescription and I haven't. I was hoping "this" (this evil depression) would go away a month ago so I didn't say anything. It hasn't. What now? I think I should call the hospital, maybe. But then I'll be a huge fucking disappointment and they'll put me on APs or something. I don't want that. I would rather die.
Posted by akc on November 10, 2001, at 10:00:42
In reply to I want to die, posted by Delphine on November 9, 2001, at 18:08:08
Posted by Krazy Kat on November 10, 2001, at 10:41:14
In reply to I want to die, posted by Delphine on November 9, 2001, at 18:08:08
Delphine:
I've had these concerns, as well. And I certainly am not completely honest with my pdoc.
When I was first taking Celexa, it seemed to help but I really became lax with the regime. So, I had told my pdoc I was feeling better. How could I tell him I was feeling horrible again?
Do just that. If you don't want to be completely forthright, keep it vague. Say you felt better earlier but don't now. Meds poop out. There are other things going on in our lives that affect our stability.
If he's (or she) condescending or shocked, you do need to get another pdoc. Depression and manic depression are lifetime illnesses (I think) and our med regimes will probably change several times t/o.
Good luck!!
- K.
Posted by Greg on November 10, 2001, at 11:08:03
In reply to I want to die, posted by Delphine on November 9, 2001, at 18:08:08
> I want to die. I don't have any plan or anything. I just feel that way. I don't want to tell my doc because I'm afraid he'll be disappointed after all the effort he has put in me. And I have betrayed him. I said I wouldn't drink and I have. I said I would respect my prescription and I haven't. I was hoping "this" (this evil depression) would go away a month ago so I didn't say anything. It hasn't. What now? I think I should call the hospital, maybe. But then I'll be a huge fucking disappointment and they'll put me on APs or something. I don't want that. I would rather die.
Delphine,
There probably aren't many here that haven't been where you are right now, wanting to die. I have. It's the nature of the beast that haunts us that we feel this way sometimes so don't feel alone with this pain.
Don't worry about disapointing your doc, if he is a good one, then he would be more disapointed if you didn't confide the truth about where you are. You aren't perfect, none of us are. If you think you should go to the hospital, then go, that choice is yours. You certainly don't have to take any med that you don't want to take unless, and I want to stress this, unless you sign a waiver to that effect. So be careful what you sign. While you may feel like a disapointment to yourself, you won't be to them, a good hospital is qualified to handle situations like these.
I understand your relutance to take APs, I felt the same way. The term Anti-Psychotic carried a stigma that I didn't want to deal with for a very long time. But I finally gave in and my med has allowed me to live a "managable" life, not a great one, but managable. Just some food for thought.
I hope whatever you decide to do it will bring you some comfort and some well deserved peace of mind. You will be in my thoughts.
Greg
Posted by Delphine on November 10, 2001, at 13:52:35
In reply to I want to die, posted by Delphine on November 9, 2001, at 18:08:08
Thanks to everybody for replying. BTW, I really don't need to mention this but I would feel like a hypocrite if I didn't: I used to post as Else, I changed my e-mail address so now I have a new nick. I would just rather people knew. Anyway. Ok, right now I feel slightly better. I don't remember who it is that said if I really wanted to die I would be dead. I agree. You are right. I just really want this bad feeling to end and right now the idea of not waking up or just ordinary suicidal fantasies cheer me up somehow. I tried to kill myself last year with a ton of pills and alcohol. Somehow, the doctors interpreted this as substance abuse and it took over a year of taking inneffective meds (Zoloft, Effexor, Depakote, etc..) to finally convince my doc to put me on Klonopin and Ritalin which I though were best for me. I was on Klonopin for most of the summer and I was feeling great. At the beginning of october I started feeling very wrong. I told my doctor this last week, but that was the week he decided to prescribe Ritalin because I had shown I could "exercise self-control" and he thought ADD was a likely diagnosis. I believe so too but this is not ADD, this is something else in addition to ADD.
I haven't exercised self-control in over 5 or 6 weeks. I would get home and get this sense of doom. The only thing I can compare it to is crashing after doing lots of coke (for those of you who are familliar with the experience). I found taking a beer or two helped, so I did. But I am not supposed to drink because of the Klonopin. I saw my doc last week and told him how I was not feeling myself and he said the Ritalin might improve my mood. But it's not helping at all. I feel as bad as before. I don't think it's even doing anything at all. Anyway. I have to see my doc again this week. I'll tell him about what is going on but then what? Antidepressants have never worked in the past so why would they now? I have been improving steadily for over a year and now this happens. Why? It's not fair. Things are supposed to be working out now. I think my doctor sees me as this hysterical girl who cries wolf all the time. He is not entirely wrong but now there is a wolf. I have never in my life felt bad so consistently for so long. I force myself to drink even though I HATE alcohol just to make the horror go away. I just have to wait. I have to make it through this week and then everything will either improve or fall apart. I don't know.
Anyway, thanks to you all.
Posted by Phil on November 10, 2001, at 16:30:54
In reply to Re: I want to die, posted by Delphine on November 10, 2001, at 13:52:35
"I just really want this bad feeling to end and right now the idea of not waking up or just ordinary suicidal fantasies cheer me up somehow."
Delphine..Well, I'll be damned, glad to hear from you and more about you.
Delphine, your quote above perfectly describes the way I've felt, on and off, for as long as I can remember. I had this fantasy in my head for years of a meteor(ite?) hitting my house. Flatten me like a bug. So comforting that thought.
Depression is my life. I've driven my friends crazy, my brothers, my employers; dating is the most foreign concept I can imagine right now.
But somehow, I've got this dumb-ass notion that it's all gonna be worth it. And some days, I can still laugh my ass off at something, my sex life, for example.How much Ritalin are you taking? I take 10 mg 4-5 times a day. It really helps augment most anything you take.
Posted by Phil on November 10, 2001, at 16:36:55
In reply to Re: I want to die, posted by Phil on November 10, 2001, at 16:30:54
The fact that you aren't feeling anything from the Ritalin yet may be a good sign. Your doc may just need to up the dose.
Posted by Adam on November 10, 2001, at 17:11:03
In reply to I want to die, posted by Delphine on November 9, 2001, at 18:08:08
I wouldn't be worried about letting your doctor down. Tell him everything you are feeling. He's not there to judge you, he's there to provide medical help and support.
I've felt this way, pretty much. It never hurt to discuss it, and through those discussions I learned about the possible benefits of hospitalization. I eventually went to the hospital, and it was a very good move.
I'm in better shape these days. I can't always say that my doctors were 100% helpful in getting me to where I am now, but I do know that I was worse off when no one knew how I felt. Communicating your feelings to someone is a sound policy. Good things come of it, the majority of the time.
> I want to die. I don't have any plan or anything. I just feel that way. I don't want to tell my doc because I'm afraid he'll be disappointed after all the effort he has put in me. And I have betrayed him. I said I wouldn't drink and I have. I said I would respect my prescription and I haven't. I was hoping "this" (this evil depression) would go away a month ago so I didn't say anything. It hasn't. What now? I think I should call the hospital, maybe. But then I'll be a huge fucking disappointment and they'll put me on APs or something. I don't want that. I would rather die.
Posted by Delphine on November 10, 2001, at 19:51:00
In reply to Re: Forgot something, Delphine, posted by Phil on November 10, 2001, at 16:36:55
> The fact that you aren't feeling anything from the Ritalin yet may be a good sign. Your doc may just need to up the dose.
Hi Phil,
I doubt that. I'm taking 60mg a day in three doses. However, the Ritalin is not augmenting anything in particular and that might be the problem. I take Klonopin for anxiety and Ritalin for ADD . I have never done too well on APs which is why I am off them now, but then again I don't think I have ever felt quite that bad. I have felt worse but never for weeks at a time like now. Anyway, I may need to go back on Prozac or something (somehow I didn't hate it quite as much as the others). I am not completely desperate or anything. I just wish I could sleep this off, or something. I would increase my Klonopin but my doctor has made sure I never have more than what is precribed. If I take more now I'll be in withdrawal by the end of the week and that's the last thing I need. I am mostly very frustrated that this is happenning. I had some kind of notion that this was not supposed to happen anymore. Thanks. I think I feel better today, I hope it lasts.
Posted by sar on November 10, 2001, at 20:53:28
In reply to Re: Forgot something, Delphine » Phil, posted by Delphine on November 10, 2001, at 19:51:00
Delphine,
i told my pdoc about my obsessive suicidal thinking and he nodded, suggested one med, but put me on a different one i said i'd prefer.
he also doubled my dose of klonopin to reduce my urge to drink (to calm my nerves). some pdocs don't like prescribing benzos. if you feel klonopin works for you, find someone who will prescribe you an appropriate amount (how much are you on?)
best to you,
sar
Posted by Phil on November 11, 2001, at 7:02:11
In reply to Re: Forgot something, Delphine » Phil, posted by Delphine on November 10, 2001, at 19:51:00
You and I are definately helping the Ritalin and Klonopin makers! Prozac sounds good to me. I'm taking Celexa. Seems to be helping. Although, like the economy, my sex life is kinda soft. (Sorry about that)
I know you're frustrated..I am too. Have missed a LOT of work lately and that just adds to the anxiety.
If you haven't read Noonday Demon, I highly recommend it. When I'm depressed I only want to read about depression and this is one hell of a book on depression. FWIW.
Phil
Posted by Delphine on November 11, 2001, at 14:20:35
In reply to Re: Forgot something, Delphine, posted by Phil on November 11, 2001, at 7:02:11
> You and I are definately helping the Ritalin and Klonopin makers! Prozac sounds good to me. I'm taking Celexa. Seems to be helping. Although, like the economy, my sex life is kinda soft. (Sorry about that)
> I know you're frustrated..I am too. Have missed a LOT of work lately and that just adds to the anxiety.
> If you haven't read Noonday Demon, I highly recommend it. When I'm depressed I only want to read about depression and this is one hell of a book on depression. FWIW.
> PhilThanks Phil, I have never heard of the book. I think I am starting to either feel better or get used to this. I've noticed I feel much worse when I wake up and get better as the day progresses. At least that means I can look forward to the evenings. But why is it called the noonday demon? This may sound like a stupid question but english is not my first language.
Posted by Delphine on November 11, 2001, at 14:23:40
In reply to Delphine, posted by sar on November 10, 2001, at 20:53:28
Hi sar,
Thanks for the input but I am already on 3mg a day and my doctor made it clear that was as much as he would prescribe. Besides, my tolerance of benzos is very high, I was once on 6mg of Ativan daily and still had trouble sleeping.> Delphine,
>
> i told my pdoc about my obsessive suicidal thinking and he nodded, suggested one med, but put me on a different one i said i'd prefer.
>
> he also doubled my dose of klonopin to reduce my urge to drink (to calm my nerves). some pdocs don't like prescribing benzos. if you feel klonopin works for you, find someone who will prescribe you an appropriate amount (how much are you on?)
>
> best to you,
> sar
Posted by Delphine on November 11, 2001, at 14:27:17
In reply to Re: I want to die, posted by Adam on November 10, 2001, at 17:11:03
Thanks Adam,
I am beginning to consider being completely honnest with my doctor even though that has not always helped in the past. I am just so sick of lying and omitting information. It makes it look as though I am ashamed (and probably convinces me that I should be) when in fact I am not. I just fear being judged or misinterpreted. I may go out on a limb though. Who knows what might happen?Thanks
> I wouldn't be worried about letting your doctor down. Tell him everything you are feeling. He's not there to judge you, he's there to provide medical help and support.
>
> I've felt this way, pretty much. It never hurt to discuss it, and through those discussions I learned about the possible benefits of hospitalization. I eventually went to the hospital, and it was a very good move.
>
> I'm in better shape these days. I can't always say that my doctors were 100% helpful in getting me to where I am now, but I do know that I was worse off when no one knew how I felt. Communicating your feelings to someone is a sound policy. Good things come of it, the majority of the time.
>
> > I want to die. I don't have any plan or anything. I just feel that way. I don't want to tell my doc because I'm afraid he'll be disappointed after all the effort he has put in me. And I have betrayed him. I said I wouldn't drink and I have. I said I would respect my prescription and I haven't. I was hoping "this" (this evil depression) would go away a month ago so I didn't say anything. It hasn't. What now? I think I should call the hospital, maybe. But then I'll be a huge fucking disappointment and they'll put me on APs or something. I don't want that. I would rather die.
Posted by Phil on November 11, 2001, at 17:39:50
In reply to Re: Forgot something, Delphine » Phil, posted by Delphine on November 11, 2001, at 14:20:35
> Thanks Phil, I have never heard of the book. I think I am starting to either feel better or get used to this. I've noticed I feel much worse when I wake up and get better as the day progresses. At least that means I can look forward to the evenings. But why is it called the noonday demon? This may sound like a stupid question but english is not my first language.> >English is my first language and I'm not sure why he chose that title. Here's a link to his website. You can download a chapter of the book if you have PDF.
http://www.noondaydemon.com
Glad you're feeling better.
Posted by paxvox on November 12, 2001, at 18:54:19
In reply to Re: Delphine, posted by Phil on November 11, 2001, at 17:39:50
It was me who said you would be dead if you REALLY wanted to be. I'm sorry if that sounded judgmental, that was not the point I was trying to make.
About your meds: How do you get Ritalin or Amphetamines prescribed? Maybe it's where I live or something, but I don't think my Pdoc would ever give me that, even though he says I "show signs" of ADD (along with my OCD, but REALLY it's the GAD that affects me the most!). Anyway, maybe Ritalin is charging you up too much that even mega-benzos will not unwind you? I know your feeling of dreading the mornings, then starting to feel better in the late afternoon. You know why that is for me? I think it is my obsession with getting to sleep, and trying to get more than 3 hours without getting into my sleep-wake-sleep pattern that goes on for 90 minute cycles.
For years, I have always postulated that I would function best with some speed in the AM and some downers in the PM. Just like the "YES" song 'Close to the edge'...."I get up...I get down..I get up..I get down" And yes, I do know the other reference you mean about crashing, because that was me 20 years ago. Strange thing is, THAT was how I was "self-medicating".OK, perhaps if you tried something else for ADD, like Wellbutrin. Have you ever had WB? It works *similarly* on the brain as amphetamines, but w/o the addictive or abuse potential. It does "reve you up" and I do have trouble getting wound back down, but that is very dose-realted, and to some degree can be regualted by when you take WB. I get a mild bezo, Tranzene, which I take in the PM before bed, but I developed a tolerance, and my Pdoc will not increase dose. He prefers "mood stabilizers" like Depakote, Topamax, Neurontin and the like, all which make me feel like crap. I ask, repeatedly, what is worse, a "reliance" on benzos, or a life of suffering? That is the nexxus where your life and mine DO come together, where I DO understand how you feel. But somehow, I keep hoping,and hanging on. Maybe...just may be that answer is around the next corner.
PAX
Posted by Else on November 15, 2001, at 22:21:20
In reply to Re: Delphine, posted by paxvox on November 12, 2001, at 18:54:19
Pax Hello,
I hope I somehow managed to make it clear me (Else) and Delphine are the same person. Doesn't matter, I had trouble registering under a new e-mail. Anyway.
> It was me who said you would be dead if you REALLY wanted to be. I'm sorry if that sounded judgmental, that was not the point I was trying to make.
No, I understand what you were saying and I am not offended. I know I am not that far gone. It's just that thinking I might be relieved by death when I am at my worse feels comforting. I would not do it. Not at this point. So , yes, you were right. But just claiming that I want to die makes me feel better somehow. It's just relief. Like sleep or drugs. People who really want to die, I believe, have come to a point where they truly hate themselves. I don't, I have in the past but self-hatred seems alien to me now, as does utter despair.
> About your meds: How do you get Ritalin or Amphetamines prescribed? Maybe it's where I live or something, but I don't think my Pdoc would ever give me that, even though he says I "show signs" of ADD (along with my OCD, but REALLY it's the GAD that affects me the most!).
I have been seeing my doctor for three years. It took that long before he gave Ritalin a chance and besides, this started before the Ritalin. I though my main problem was GAD too before but the clonazepam has it under control. This is depression. No doubt about it. The Ritalin is not making me high at all. I am a wreck. My memory is destroyed. I don't remember what happenned 24 hours ago in spite of the stimulants. I really think I need ADs at this point.
Anyway, maybe Ritalin is charging you up too much that even mega-benzos will not unwind you? I know your feeling of dreading the mornings, then starting to feel better in the late afternoon. You know why that is for me? I think it is my obsession with getting to sleep, and trying to get more than 3 hours without getting into my sleep-wake-sleep pattern that goes on for 90 minute cycles.
No. I sleep a lot in spite of the Ritalin. I don't feel wound-up, I feel like a zombie. I am not obsessed with sleep. I think I sleep too much but i would rather sleep that feel that way. I am not familliar with your sleep difficulties. Typically, I have trouble falling asleep but once I am asleep nothing can wake me up and I am off for 12-14 hours
> For years, I have always postulated that I would function best with some speed in the AM and some downers in the PM. Just like the "YES" song 'Close to the edge'...."I get up...I get down..I get up..I get down" And yes, I do know the other reference you mean about crashing, because that was me 20 years ago. Strange thing is, THAT was how I was "self-medicating".Trust me. I have tried so many other drugs and nothing has worked. You may think my doctor is being imprudent but this is the end of the line.
> OK, perhaps if you tried something else for ADD, like Wellbutrin. Have you ever had WB?Yes. Yes, it work at first and then it let me down; so did Effexor.
It works *similarly* on the brain as amphetamines, but w/o the addictive or abuse potential.
I can't imagine abusing Ritalin. I haven't so far and don't thing I will. I am prone to abuse sedatives but not stimulants. I am not concerned with this at all. Wellbutrin made me almost psychotic, Ritalin hasn't.
It does "reve you up" and I do have trouble getting wound back down, but that is very dose-realted, and to some degree can be regualted by when you take WB. I get a mild bezo, Tranzene, which I take in the PM before bed, but I developed a tolerance, and my Pdoc will not increase dose. He prefers "mood stabilizers" like Depakote, Topamax, Neurontin and the like, all which make me feel like crap. I ask, repeatedly, what is worse, a "reliance" on benzos, or a life of suffering? That is the nexxus where your life and mine DO come together, where I DO understand how you feel. But somehow, I keep hoping,and hanging on. Maybe...just may be that answer is around the next corner.
I also have taken Depakote and Neurontin, with no succes at all. I have manage to control my benzo comsumption to some extent although I think I will always be drawned to these meds somehow: they soothe me.Tomorrow I am seeing my doc. I will ask for Prozac because I don't see what else will help at this point. I am very angry at the universe because this was not supposed to happen. I know how hysterical I will look; always looking for the doctor's attention. But this is real.
anyway, thanks pax. Good luck to you.
> PAX
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