![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 27 to 51 of 63. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on April 19, 2005, at 23:31:52
In reply to Re: Sex again. Sigh. » Dinah, posted by Tamar on April 13, 2005, at 20:38:35
If I were to describe my "type" I'd pretty much describe my husband. Blonde, crinkly blue eyes, long fingers, gold arm hair curling over the watch band. He just gets better with age. He's much more attractive now than he was in high school.
He's got a lot of the personality qualities I find sexy too. Integrity, wit, intelligence. He used to use his humor a lot more often than he does now, but he's still a funny guy.
I will say that our marriage functions best with the communications kept at a relatively polite level. When we delve deep, we tend to get in trouble. Because despite our similarities, which tend to be glaring, we have some fundamental differences in emotional styles that would be a problem if we looked closely enough at them.
So I don't think being too honest is a good option for us. My therapist thinks that's sad. I'm not so sure.
Posted by Dinah on April 19, 2005, at 23:43:37
In reply to Re: Sex again. Sigh. » Tamar, posted by Dinah on April 19, 2005, at 23:31:52
I'll readily agree that the emotional differences contribute to the problem.
Not that I'd have any less of a problem with the physical aspect of sex, I think that's so deeply ingrained I just as well consider it hard wired.
But I think if my feelings about my husband were unconflicted, the greater degree of love and desire to give would make the entire experience more tolerable.
I feel horrible saying that. He's a really good man. He provides for us well. He's a hands on father. He does whatever he can to make sure that things run smoothly for me.
He's really terrific.
But he can make me feel so very bad about myself so very often. Like water on rock. How can I love everything about him but the way he makes me and my son feel about ourselves? Which is something he grasps periodically but promptly puts out of his mind and refuses to change. Because it's more important to him to make sure we behave ourselves in the way he wishes us to behave than it is...
Oh well. He's as hard on himself as he is on us, and I reap many rewards from that aspect of it.
I'm very lucky to have him, and I could never make it without him, on any level.
Posted by Tamar on April 20, 2005, at 5:52:06
In reply to Re: Sex again. Sigh. » Tamar, posted by Susan47 on April 18, 2005, at 9:19:01
> That you said about familiarity of sexual contact being distressing, that's true for me. Because I want my body to please, but I'm not sure it does, not at all, and that's not even supposed to be an issue. I can't go to bed with someone who's unfamiliar to me, either, that's even more uncomfortable. And immensely unsatisfying. I learned that in my younger years. I think for men and women both there's a lot more to sex than just getting off. I was doing some reading last night and suddenly remembered this man I was with, I remember, through my reading, because my mind seems to have blocked it out without a stimulus, but I remembered that he gave me my one and only orgasm with a man, and I remember that he was very attentive, very much so, very caring, it was almost like he put a spell on me, a spell wherein I felt completely safe, completely cared for, in my body yet out of it at the same time, and it was incredible, it really was like a spell. There was so much trust. And something awful, really terrible happened to this relationship. Very quickly after that things went very very bad. And he turned out to be selfish and mean... so is there hope that I can ever sustain something like that IRL again? I don't know.
Well, I suppose you know that it is possible to have an orgasm with a man. That seems worth knowing! And not only that, but trust as well. Maybe there has to be trust for the orgasm thing to work, but trust alone isn't the key. You mentioned safety and I think that's very important too. It's all so incredibly complicated!
Posted by Tamar on April 20, 2005, at 5:56:22
In reply to Re: Sex again. Sigh. » Tamar, posted by Dinah on April 19, 2005, at 23:31:52
> If I were to describe my "type" I'd pretty much describe my husband. Blonde, crinkly blue eyes, long fingers, gold arm hair curling over the watch band. He just gets better with age. He's much more attractive now than he was in high school.
Well, that’s a good start!
> He's got a lot of the personality qualities I find sexy too. Integrity, wit, intelligence. He used to use his humor a lot more often than he does now, but he's still a funny guy.
Also a good sign, I reckon.
> I will say that our marriage functions best with the communications kept at a relatively polite level. When we delve deep, we tend to get in trouble. Because despite our similarities, which tend to be glaring, we have some fundamental differences in emotional styles that would be a problem if we looked closely enough at them.
And you’ve lived with these differences for some years. So you’re used to it.
> So I don't think being too honest is a good option for us. My therapist thinks that's sad. I'm not so sure.
Well, there’s no point making life too difficult. But then again, there is this one area that you seem to feel isn’t ideal, and if talking honestly about it isn’t possible, then it looks as if you need a one-person solution to a two-person problem. And that’s difficult, though probably not impossible. It does mean, though, that you have to do all the work and he gets a sizeable portion of the reward. However, you’re clearly a generous person, so I’m guessing you wouldn’t resent that.
When you described the physical problems with sex as hard wired, it really struck a chord with me. I don’t think my aversion ever went as deep as the aversion you describe, but it did feel hard wired.
I could tell you some of the techniques that worked for me – I dunno if they’d work for you. And I should say that my sex life isn’t perfect, but it used to be awful and now it’s enjoyable, so that makes a great deal of difference to my marriage. If you think hearing my story could be helpful I’d happily share it.
Tamar
Posted by Susan47 on April 20, 2005, at 10:54:30
In reply to Re: Sex again. Sigh. » Dinah, posted by Tamar on April 20, 2005, at 5:56:22
Wow. I picked up on what you said about your similarities being glaring. I don't think that's the way people would usually describe their similarities?
Posted by annierose on April 21, 2005, at 20:02:59
In reply to Re: Sex again. Sigh. » Dinah, posted by Tamar on April 20, 2005, at 5:56:22
Tamar and Dinah -
I can relate to both of your stories. I am conflicted re:sex too. On the one hand, I do enjoy sex, but I have an aversion to it as well. We do not have sex as often as my husband would like, and I have a difficult time agreeing to it, even though, on one level, I do like it.I just don't get why I'm so conflicted. No CSA of any kind. I really wish my longing for sex = my desire to actual have it. At best, I talk myself into it and once it's underway, I'm usually okay enough to enjoy it. In fact, there's this wildness in me that my husband would be so suprised to discover, but she is fairly well hidden right now.
I have talked about this in therapy. Interesting enough, I told her my conflicted feelings are similar to therapy. I like going to therapy, but once I'm there, it's painful and I'm irritated. But I wish I could enjoy the experience more. Does that make sense?
After reading this thread, I realize I haven't brought sex up recently in therapy, and maybe we should revisit the topic. Sometimes it makes it worse. Those icky feelings being brought to the surface don't go away, even with a glass of wine. My husband loves to kiss me in the morning and wrap his arms around me all the time, and I recoil inside myself (he is fairly unaware).
Thanks for sharing.
If you feel like sharing your story Tamar, I would like to read it. Thank you
-Annierose
Posted by Dinah on April 21, 2005, at 20:48:56
In reply to Re: Sex again. Sigh. » Dinah, posted by Tamar on April 20, 2005, at 5:56:22
If you wouldn't mind sharing your story, I would appreciate it.
I have to admit to a lot of conflictedness regarding solving the problem. Conflictedness that really gets in the way of my doing anything about it.
Posted by Tamar on April 25, 2005, at 13:18:11
In reply to Re: Sex again. Sigh. » Tamar, posted by Dinah on April 21, 2005, at 20:48:56
Hi Dinah,
So this is my story. I don’t know if it will be helpful to you, but it worked for me.
Here goes (blush blush):
The first thing I had to do was decide that I wanted to enjoy sex with my husband. I had to decide that I wanted it both for me and for him, and for our marriage in general. That was a hard decision because it had consequences.
Then I spent some time thinking about what it would be like if I enjoyed sexual contact. That was weird. I wrote it all down. I wrote how I imagined him touching me, and I wrote how I would feel if I enjoyed it. I had to start small. I had to start by writing about him hugging me and feeling desire for him in response. And I worked up from there to more intimate touch. That was also hard because I felt inclined to write about the reality (discomfort) rather than the fantasy (pleasure). Sometimes I couldn’t face it. It took weeks. But in the end I had a sex fantasy about my husband. I could imagine enjoying intimate contact.
Then I talked to him about how I felt, and that made the next step go fairly quickly, but if you can’t talk to your husband about it at least you can go on thinking about it yourself. And maybe talking with your T?
Then, when we were intimate I tried to understand exactly what I was feeling. I had thought originally that it was all about shame, but I realised there was also embarrassment and disgust and feeling like a child. Again, I had to start cautiously. I had to be sure I could move from feeling the feelings into protective dissociation. I don’t know if that’s a good idea, but it worked for me. At first I could only feel my feelings for a few seconds before everything felt too awful and I had to pretend I was somewhere else, or stop what was happening. And then the next day I’d write down what I’d felt and how awful it was. Eventually I could feel things for longer. I didn’t need to explore the origin of my feelings; I just needed to acknowledge them.
After a while I could identify the different feelings, and then it was possible for me to challenge them. I could think to myself, “I feel embarrassed at being touched. But my body was designed to feel pleasure. Lots of people feel pleasure doing this; there’s no need to feel embarrassed.” If I felt like a child, I could think to myself, “I’m an adult with a sexually mature body fulfilling an adult need.” If I felt sinful I could think, “I’m a married woman in bed with my husband and I’m allowed to enjoy it.” And so on. Basically I had to talk myself through the whole experience.
Eventually (and it took a long time) things got better. It was hard work: at times I felt I just wanted to give up because it was so hard. But it was worth it. There are times now when I don’t have to talk myself through sex at all. There are other occasions when I have to stop several times because it feels horrible, but I can return to the pleasure fairly quickly. It has made an immense difference to my marriage in general; not just to the sex but to everything.
I realise what I’ve written reads a little like a program, but I don’t think it needs to be quite so regimented. I hope at least some of it is useful to you.
Tamar
Posted by TofuEmmy on April 25, 2005, at 19:43:36
In reply to Re: Sex again. Sigh. (**somewhat graphic**) » Dinah, posted by Tamar on April 25, 2005, at 13:18:11
Thank you so much for sharing. I'd bet you've helped a lot more women than you'd ever imagine.
Your generous openness is an offering to many.
emmy
Posted by littleone on April 25, 2005, at 20:58:14
In reply to Re: Sex again. Sigh. (**somewhat graphic**) » Dinah, posted by Tamar on April 25, 2005, at 13:18:11
Thank you so much for that Tamar. It was really helpful.
Posted by Dinah on April 26, 2005, at 18:05:09
In reply to Re: Sex again. Sigh. (**somewhat graphic**) » Dinah, posted by Tamar on April 25, 2005, at 13:18:11
Thank you Tamar. It was very generous of you to share something so intimate.
I am going to save your post, because I think it's a very important one. And I'll keep it in the back of my mind as I work on step one. Because to truly want to enjoy sex would be a very big first step for me. My therapist and I were sort of talking about this. I don't think I told him, but I was thinking to me that trying to enjoy sex *feels* like I'm participating in violating myself. I know that's not true. But I have to get over that feeling somehow. And I'm not sure how much I want my therapist to participate in that process because I'm sure to resent him for participating in my violation as well.
Sigh.
I have a long way to go.
I don't think it was too regimented at all. A big campaign needs a plan. Just going with the flow sure wouldn't work for me.
You also show your generosity by working so hard to give your husband the pleasure of wanting him. That is such a beautiful thing. I honor you for that.
Posted by annierose on April 26, 2005, at 19:12:37
In reply to Re: Sex again. Sigh. (**somewhat graphic**) » Dinah, posted by Tamar on April 25, 2005, at 13:18:11
Thank you Tamar -
That was so brave of you. Thank you for sharing. I understand all of your steps, they make perfect sense. Did you figure this out on your own? or did you work on them with your T?
I talked about sex today in therapy. She made an interesting obversation. In general, I flinch when I am touched. And she said, when you come to therapy, it is like being touched. And for me, it is. I can't explain it.
But I don't know how to work on this in my marriage. Your post gives me something to think about, and a starting point.
Annierose
Posted by Tamar on April 27, 2005, at 12:52:29
In reply to Re: Sex again. Sigh. (**somewhat graphic**) » Tamar, posted by Dinah on April 26, 2005, at 18:05:09
> I was thinking to me that trying to enjoy sex *feels* like I'm participating in violating myself. I know that's not true. But I have to get over that feeling somehow. And I'm not sure how much I want my therapist to participate in that process because I'm sure to resent him for participating in my violation as well.Yes, that makes sense. Would it be possible to talk about that feeling very theoretically with your T, before you actually start trying to enjoy sex? I think his role in it would be crucial since you don’t want to talk to your husband.
> I have a long way to go.
One step at a time. If and when you want to. You don’t have to do anything you don’t want to do. However, the courage you’ve shown in posting about it and thinking about it is already progress, isn’t it?
I saw your post about sexual anorexia and it sounds like an interesting theory, although when I read further online I was a little unconvinced by the idea of a twelve step approach. Mind you, I haven’t read any detail, so maybe it will be helpful. I hope so.
Posted by Tamar on April 27, 2005, at 16:19:35
In reply to Re: Sex again. Sigh. (**somewhat graphic**) » Tamar, posted by annierose on April 26, 2005, at 19:12:37
> I understand all of your steps, they make perfect sense. Did you figure this out on your own? or did you work on them with your T?
I found it very difficult to talk to my T about it, so I pretty much figured it out on my own but I talked very generally about it with him. I didn’t exactly go through my plan with him, but we talked most weeks about how sex was going, and the work I did in therapy helped me to adjust things in my bedroom!
> I talked about sex today in therapy. She made an interesting obversation. In general, I flinch when I am touched. And she said, when you come to therapy, it is like being touched. And for me, it is. I can't explain it.
That is interesting. Does therapy reach the same vulnerabilities or triggers that physical touch reaches?
> But I don't know how to work on this in my marriage. Your post gives me something to think about, and a starting point.I think if you can keep talking about it to your T it should help a lot. It’s difficult but the rewards are worth it.
Tamar
Posted by Dinah on April 27, 2005, at 18:07:54
In reply to Re: Sex again. Sigh. (**somewhat graphic**) » Dinah, posted by Tamar on April 27, 2005, at 12:52:29
I dug up the "Sexual Anorexia" book today and read a bit. I am extremely unconvinced that it has anything at all to do with my own problems, as I don't come anywhere near meeting most of the criteria. It's just that I really really meet those criteria I do meet. :)
I think I'll talk to my therapist about it, and about my fears that I would resent him.
He's been doing some sex therapy training lately and yesterday I found myself saying to him that I'd rather it be him than some stranger if I ever went into therapy for sexual difficulties. Then I thought to myself "No, that's probably not true" but didn't bother to tell him. I probably should.
Baby steps. :)
Posted by annierose on April 28, 2005, at 6:34:03
In reply to Re: Sex again. Sigh. (**somewhat graphic**) » annierose, posted by Tamar on April 27, 2005, at 16:19:35
"Does therapy reach the same vulnerabilities or triggers that physical touch reaches?"
That is the $1,000,000 question. I can't get a handle on why that resonated so true for me when my T said it. A part of it seems "icky", like I don't want to go there. It seems like I'm sexualizing my relationship with my T, which is not true. Feeling vulnerable in sex and in therapy ... that is true. But that is true for everyone, isn't it?
I think it's a little of the "flight or fight" response.
It's a little of "I don't need anyone trying to help me, or tell me what to do."
Hmmmm, stuff for therapy, as usual.
Posted by muffled on January 1, 2007, at 21:50:10
So I was reading a thread started by Dinah bout a year ago and it was so cool, cuz that about where I am at. The flight response when hubby comes round....
Its an awful feeling and I will eventually dissociate, but I dissociate less than I used to, but the time before I dissociate is truly HIDEOUS. My hubby knows nothing, other than I avoid him. He is SO kind to me. I don't know what my history is. I don't think anything too horrible happened, and anyways, ahhh sh*t. Forget that part. But anyways, I wondered if anybody had anything new they could add?
Cuz its a prob.
And I working on other stuff w/T right now.
And I dunno if I can actually talk bout that linda stuff w/my T. I dunno if she could possibly understand that terrible feeling.
Sh*t.
It all sucks.
Any input appreciated,
Thanks,
Muffled
This is the address of the thread...
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/relate/20050212/msgs/474222.html
Posted by Daisym on January 1, 2007, at 21:50:10
In reply to Time for a *sex trigger** thread. Hubby/wife stuff, posted by muffled on December 29, 2006, at 0:43:44
So I have lots of different thoughts on this subject but please remember that this is a definite "do as I say, not as I do" response from me. My husband does not know about very much of the abuse in my background and he was pretty abusive himself, sexually. Although I'm sure he wouldn't characterize it that way. I swear my therapist said to me about a million times, "'I don't want to' is a good enough reason to not have sex." And my sexual experience is very limited, so again, I might not be the best responder here.
The first thing I want to say is that this is a hugely important thing to be able to talk about in therapy. If not there, then where? Sex is part of being human, like eating and breathing, but it gets twisted sometimes. I used to think of it as a weapon being used against me. I guess I still do, in many respects. I don't mean talk about exactly what you are doing, unless that is important in some way, but more, why you feel so dissociated and scared by it. Is it the proximity of a man? Or the feeling of someone "on" you? Or is it the raw vulnerability of it? Once you can pin down what you are feeling, and why so uncomfortable, then it might be easier to figure out how to help yourself.
I think there is give and take in all marriages, and we do things that aren't our favorite things to be doing. But I think we all need to have our own needs met as well and we need to have a line established that we don't cross. If something feels too scary, then it is Ok to stop doing it. Oral sex was that way for me for a long time. But I thought I *had* to do it, one of those wifely duty things. My therapist almost fell out of his chair when I finally told him that. (I felt pretty stupid, but my intellect does not work in the bedroom, at all!) So we practiced, "I don't like that - I'd rather not" over and over again. That doesn't mean cutting out sex altogether, it means finding what you like or at least can tolerate. And dissociating is not a terrible coping mechanism until you can find those things.
But I know what you mean, when I dissociated less, sex was so much harder. Someone had a way of asking her younger parts to take a nap, or stay out of the bedroom while adult things were happening. That resonated with me for a while. I knew I needed to stay "big" and tell myself I wasn't a little girl being abused again. It didn't work all the time, but it did work.
And then there were times when the work in therapy was so raw and so hard that sex was just out of the question. I needed permission to say "no" so talking with my therapist about how to say no was important. It is tricky, because the last thing I needed was my husband ranting about my therapist telling me not to have sex. So definitely think about what to say and not to say. I'm so thankful that the tension around all of that is over, now that we've split up. My therapist has said that if/when I enter into another relationship, it is likely that sex will still be an issue and I'll need someone who can be very patient and understanding. And I'll need "more" therapy around it. (God forbid!)
It sounds like your husband is a sweet guy who loves you and wants to show you his love. Maybe if you can keep framing it for yourself as love and holding and warmth and giving, it won't be so frightening.
But I'd bring it up in therapy. I bet it will help.
Posted by annierose on January 1, 2007, at 21:50:10
In reply to Time for a *sex trigger** thread. Hubby/wife stuff, posted by muffled on December 29, 2006, at 0:43:44
I second what Daisy said to you. I just wanted to say, of course your therapist will understand. Sexual issues are commonplace - and she is trained to help untangle those feelings.
I do talk with my therapist regarding sex, and it's never easy, even after all these years. I still haven't untangled my web of difficulties, it's something I still have to talk about time and time again. But I think it's worth it. And I think your husband is more understanding than you probably realize. Have you talked to him about your feelings?
Posted by muffled on January 1, 2007, at 21:50:11
In reply to Re: Time for a *sex trigger** thread. LONG, posted by Daisym on December 29, 2006, at 17:49:40
> I swear my therapist said to me about a million times, "'I don't want to' is a good enough reason to not have sex." And my sexual experience is very limited, so again, I might not be the best responder here.
**I really appreciate your response Daisy. I don't have a whole lot of sexual experience either.
My husband is a saint I got to say. He is very kind. He would never force me. I feel terrible bout how I feel, and I couldn't possibly tell him I'm revolted, cuz that would hurt him. I'm not sure WHAT to say to him. I USED to do it OK. I even used to jump him. Part of me liked it, but at the same time there's always been a part thats been horrified. Unfortunately the 'like' part seems to have mostly gone away. Just the terrified one remains. Sometimes I kinda want to, but then I get so afraid. Blind terror. And there is NO REASON. We have been more actually closer, but not much. Its also hard w/small kids in the house, but in a strange way they make me feel safe. When they at school and DH is home I get kinda scared. One time he made a grab for me and pulled me to him, I just saw a white flash and tore away. It wasn't nice :( I just covered it up by getting it together elsewhere and then comming back and pretending nothing happened.
>
> The first thing I want to say is that this is a hugely important thing to be able to talk about in therapy. If not there, then where? Sex is part of being human, like eating and breathing, but it gets twisted sometimes.**Its a very twisted thing indeed. I think its got alot to do with evil. Its just one time I wrote some bout it in a fax to T (I say MOST stuff via fax, then we sorta go thru fax in the session, but there's never enough time, so we never get thru the faxes, and there's always MORE fax stuff in the next week, so alot of stuff gets left. Used to bug me, but now I figger if its a prob for me it WILL come up again, and we will get to it eventually)So anyways, it was something she ignored....but to give her a break she WAS trying to get me to finally talk bout some stuff I not supposed to talk about, and really don't know much anyways. But had mentioned it in the fax, so she seized upon it,,,
So now I got to deal with whatever 'it' was about? mebbe not the week she gets back, but the next.(after a long break, the first session just seems to be a reestablishing thing for me, to see she real, she the same, she don't hate me etc etc.)>I don't mean talk about exactly what you are doing, unless that is important in some way, but more, why you feel so dissociated and scared by it. Is it the proximity of a man? Or the feeling of someone "on" you? Or is it the raw vulnerability of it? Once you can pin down what you are feeling, and why so uncomfortable, then it might be easier to figure out how to help yourself.
**I have that idea in my mind...someone suggested that before...but I just haven't had much nerve. Best I can guess would be, well, I dunno, I guess touch kinda freaks me, I feel sorta like an object, not like human. I do sort of(VERY faintly these days)feel aroused, but then its not a good thing somehow...and then, ughhhh, I trying to write this so then mebbe I can write T. Well, my DH has NEVER forced. But his part, well, I dunno, I'm not lesbian, but the part, I just don't like it. When I feel it against me I flip out. I feel nautious with terror, blind terror. Kinda like you so scared that you can't even think. You so scared you don't even know its fear. Its just TOTAL. And I fight and fight to stay there and cooperate, and its just not fun, and I try to show some enthusiasm, I try tp pretend all is OK. But its hard to move, and its all I can do to breath, and speak, and keep up the pretense, and then I'll make some excuse that I hear the kids and run away.
(I just reread this, mebbe I should try taking a hefty dose of xanax before? Interesting thot...)
>
> I think there is give and take in all marriages, and we do things that aren't our favorite things to be doing. But I think we all need to have our own needs met as well and we need to have a line established that we don't cross. If something feels too scary, then it is Ok to stop doing it. That doesn't mean cutting out sex altogether, it means finding what you like or at least can tolerate. And dissociating is not a terrible coping mechanism until you can find those things.**Thanks for sharing so much Daisy, makes me feel a whole lot better bout myself.
>
> But I know what you mean, when I dissociated less, sex was so much harder. Someone had a way of asking her younger parts to take a nap, or stay out of the bedroom while adult things were happening. That resonated with me for a while. I knew I needed to stay "big" and tell myself I wasn't a little girl being abused again. It didn't work all the time, but it did work.**Hmmmm. I not very good a choosing who does what, they pretty much do what they want, my inside people...sigh. But its an interesting thought, that mebbe its a kid thats getting freaked...hmmm, mebbe I can try to consciously tell myself I AM ADULT. I AM IN CONTROL. NOBODY f*cks w/me unless I say so. So there.
Yeah...I used to constantly blank out...now its not as common, I just suffer the tortures of my mind sometimes..guess its a sign of progress...I AM learning to feel, and to cope, and to beleive that its TRUE that the feelings DO pass....eventually.
>
> And then there were times when the work in therapy was so raw and so hard that sex was just out of the question.**Mebbe thats where I at :( But then again I feel myself quite ready to let my denial parts quash that kid again...
>I'm so thankful that the tension around all of that is over, now that we've split up.
**Sorry bout the split up, but at the same time, ahhhhhh, what a releif.
> It sounds like your husband is a sweet guy who loves you and wants to show you his love. Maybe if you can keep framing it for yourself as love and holding and warmth and giving, it won't be so frightening.
**My DH is a wonderful man. I think I gonna just have to talk bout this some time to T :-(
Just my T said one time, when we was talking bout tears, and diff kinds of tears, and she said as how sometimes when she w/her man, she gets tears in her eyes of happiness and love cuz she feels close to him in EVERY way. Sigh.
I don't think that will EVER happen to me. But at least if I can tolerate it, and make my man happy, well, I'd be content with that. Its just after my T painted this picture of perfection, well, I just sorta feel like, well like, how on EARTH could she possibly understand where I comming from?
>
> But I'd bring it up in therapy. I bet it will help.
>
**Sigh.
Yuck.
Thanks Daisy.
Take care.
Muffled
Posted by muffled on January 1, 2007, at 21:50:11
In reply to Re: Time for a *sex trigger** thread. Hubby/wife stuff » muffled, posted by annierose on December 29, 2006, at 21:38:51
> I second what Daisy said to you. I just wanted to say, of course your therapist will understand. Sexual issues are commonplace - and she is trained to help untangle those feelings.
**Sigh...She been a T awhile, I suppose 'that' stuff has come up before with others.
Just right now i struggling with the fear that she gonna look at me different when she gets back.
Cuz I think I may have said some bout the unspeakable, or what little I know bout it, and now I SO scared she gonna look at me funny :( I seldom actually look at her anyways, so mebbe it don't matter...
>
> I do talk with my therapist regarding sex, and it's never easy, even after all these years. I still haven't untangled my web of difficulties, it's something I still have to talk about time and time again. But I think it's worth it. And I think your husband is more understanding than you probably realize. Have you talked to him about your feelings?**So your T HAS helped?
I think my husband is understanding, but he himself had self esteem issues growing up. He had a crazy kidhood. I just don't want him to misunderstand that I think HE is repulsive, and its not him.
I also just not very good at intimacy stuff. I don't like to talk bout myself which is why T is so hard for me.
This all is such a drag.
Thanks for your words and understanding.
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by Dinah on January 1, 2007, at 21:50:11
In reply to Time for a *sex trigger** thread. Hubby/wife stuff, posted by muffled on December 29, 2006, at 0:43:44
Definitely talk with your therapist about it.
I've talked to mine and also to a sex therapist, and they both had useful tips. Three I remember off the top of my head.
Be honest with husband - kindly. This one surprised me. It seemed terribly unkind. But if phrased correctly I discovered it could be done without undue hurt. So there were a few things that I just really didn't like, and I was honest with him. I put things in a positive way, like I really prefer it when you do this instead of that. Or I really want to enjoy our experiences together, and one way to help me do that would be to...
If there's anything that makes it easier for you, try to do it. It's a lot easier for me if I have advance notice, so I can prepare. My husband doesn't like the fact that we aren't spontaneous, but I'm not trying to cut him off or anything, it's just easier if I'm not sitting there and suddenly things get sexual. Also it's easier for me if I'm the initiator, so I try to initiate things often enough.
And if there's anything at all that you enjoy, try to incorporate it into your routine. If you ask me that, my kneejerk reaction is to reject it. But if I ramble on I usually find out that there are some things I enjoy to some extent or another. Like the sex therapist found out I enjoy foreplay in the shower better than out of it because water has always been a sensual experience for me, and insisted that I incorporate that as often as I can.
My gynecologist suggested getting a bit tipsy.
The general idea being that anything that increases positive feelings and decreases negative ones will help, even if only incrementally. But if you add up enough small changes, it could lead to bigger ones.
Can you think of anything that makes it better for you? Or that you enjoy? Does it help if you feel in control? What sorts of ways can you feel more in control? Are there things you'd rather not do? That's perfectly ok. You don't have to. I like to think most husbands are more interested in having a wife who enjoys sex more than they are in any particular sex acts.
Posted by muffled on January 1, 2007, at 21:50:12
In reply to Re: Time for a *sex trigger** thread. Hubby/wife s » muffled, posted by Dinah on December 30, 2006, at 11:52:24
> Definitely talk with your therapist about it.
**Sigh. It seems to be unaminous to talk to T. I expect I would write and fax. Then she brings it up :(
> Be honest with husband - kindly. This one surprised me. It seemed terribly unkind. But if phrased correctly I discovered it could be done without undue hurt. So there were a few things that I just really didn't like, and I was honest with him. I put things in a positive way, like I really prefer it when you do this instead of that. Or I really want to enjoy our experiences together, and one way to help me do that would be to...
**HOW can I be honest? Do I tell him I scared of it? That I feel nauseated by it? I never been terribly creative cuz I always mostly been in a mad rush to get it over with as soon as possible.
I am such a loser wife. My poor husband desrves better than me :(
I AM gonna try some things mentally to just get thru it at all, the basics, quickly. And mebbe I can improve from there. Its the nausea and trying to function AT ALL when I dissociate that I find hard to get by.
This all sucks SO F*CKING BAD.(pardon the pun. its the way I talk)
>
> It's a lot easier for me if I have advance notice, so I can prepare. Also it's easier for me if I'm the initiator, so I try to initiate things often enough.**I think both of those are good ideas for me. Thank you.
>
> And if there's anything at all that you enjoy, try to incorporate it into your routine.:( I don't have a routine, just get it over with asap.
> My gynecologist suggested getting a bit tipsy.**Can't drink, but mebbe xanax? or MJ?
>
> The general idea being that anything that increases positive feelings and decreases negative ones will help, even if only incrementally. But if you add up enough small changes, it could lead to bigger ones.**THIS is what I got to keep in mind. This is central I think. Cuz I don't think this is gonna happen overnight :( if ever :(
>
> Can you think of anything that makes it better for you? I like to think most husbands are more interested in having a wife who enjoys sex more than they are in any particular sex acts.**Better for me? I think it would be better for me if I was dead. Sigh. I didn't really realize what a deep set thing it was until I started to look at this more closely. I just been avoiding. Poor hubby got a bad wife all right. But he seems to stand by me. Why I don't know.
I like the thot that one day we could have this special physical intimacy, but I also think it may never be possible. I too wrecked. Irreversable. I CAN get my own rocks off, so I know its physically possible, but the whole thing is so overwhelming.
Thanks for sharing Dinah.
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by happykat on January 1, 2007, at 21:50:12
In reply to Time for a *sex trigger** thread. Hubby/wife stuff, posted by muffled on December 29, 2006, at 0:43:44
Hey Muffled,
I am soooo glad you brought up this subject. I am really struggling with this. BTW, I found the thread from last year really helpful too.
Up until recently I have always used alc.,tranq.,muscle relaxants,etc... to get through sex. Now I'm having sober sex and it is absolutely terrifying. I also hate the touch part and having a body laying on top of me. The first few times I ended up bursting into tears. My poor DH. I'm sure he was like WTF? We never have talked about it. I just kept saying, "It's me.It's me." Being able to dissociate during that time was a godsend. At least until I went in and told my T who said, "No it's not. You need to stay grounded and in the present...blah...blah..blah. Sometimes thats easier said than done.
She suggested I put 'little happykat' into a safe place so that the grownup happykat could work on these adult issues. (If only it were that simple.) She also suggested what Dinah mentioned about being the one to iniate and to maintain control over the activity. And also what Daisy mentioned about knowing its ok to say no.
I still think I would prefer a xanax, soma, drink, something to help me relax a bit. It somehow seemed to take the edge off the anxiety and make it tolerable, maybe not pleasurable, but tolerable.
I have done some mental imagery work where I take a hot bath beforehand to relax and mentally walk through the activity framing it along the way with positive thoughts and reaffirming thoughts, like DH loves me, I love him, this will feel good, etc...
One thing that has actually helped me as far as touch goes is hugging each other once a day. I know it sounds goofy. He has issues and is kind of cold too, so when I told him about this exercise he just rolled his eyes. At first we just stood and laughed but eventually we mechanically hugged. And it has gotten easier and better and is almost automatic now. And I'm learning its ok to be touched and allowing him to hug me without flinching or pulling away.
I think the idea is to take that concept and move it into the bedroom with more sexual forms of touching. So that you gradually desensitize yourself while learning to stay grounded and focused on touch at the same time. There is a good book by a sex therapist named Wendy Maltz called "The Sexual Healing Journey" that has a bunch of exercises and tips in it. She also has a website http://www.healthysex.com
Hope you're doing o.k.
Regards,
happykat :)
Posted by muffled on January 1, 2007, at 21:50:12
In reply to Re: Time for a *sex trigger** thread. Hubby/wife stuff » muffled, posted by happykat on December 30, 2006, at 16:02:46
Thanks HK, I bookmarked the site.
I was peeking at it.
I think I will communicate to my DH:
That we should hug 1x/day everyday.
That sex is just not possible at this time.
Its not like its gonna be a newsflash to him that I been avoiding. Mebbe it will be good for him to know that I am acknowledging that I have a prob, but that I AM working on it.
I just feel so bloody awful about it.
I can't seem to keep kid mode at bay. I am WAY too much kid these days. The terror is too raw right now.
Reality is creeping in and my head hurts.
All the signs.
Too many.
I don't want this to be so.
And yet, theres just too much.
It keeps comming, and it gets harder to deny.
And I trying to pretend its a game for attn only.
But,
mebbe its not.
I really hate this.
It makes me angry.
Very angry.
Better to warn my T to look out.
This emotion stuff is so weird.
Muffled
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