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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by karaS on October 2, 2004, at 16:10:34
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » karaS, posted by raybakes on October 2, 2004, at 14:40:04
> Just came across this to do with autoimmune disease, particularly hashimoto's. Seems a genetic error in vitamin d production is common in hashimoto's.
>
> So low glutathione, low vitamin D and high prolactin are common in autoimmune disease. Interesting that prolactin is high in autism too, and as ritalin increases dopamine, wonder whether attention deficit kids have autoimmune problems?
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15296474
Thanks, Ray. Someone recently posted an article about how deficient most of us are in Vitamin D and how closely related that is to depression. The article said that you could take huge doses of Vit. D without any adverse effects. Then I read another article that said you can overdose on D and it doesn't take much. What do you think should be an optimal dosage?Also, what supplements do you take everyday? What other additional ones do you add in sometimes? I'm especially interested in what you take for depression. Anything else besides the Norival?
I can see from your last post that you really are in the right place here on the alternative board! Your comment about women wearing "carcinogens" to enhance beauty made me chuckle. I have always hated most perfumes myself. Do you take any medications at all or are you able to treat all of your health issues with more natural means?
-K
Posted by tealady on October 2, 2004, at 17:01:04
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » karaS, posted by raybakes on October 2, 2004, at 14:40:04
> Just came across this to do with autoimmune disease, particularly hashimoto's. Seems a genetic error in vitamin d production is common in hashimoto's.
>
> So low glutathione, low vitamin D and high prolactin are common in autoimmune disease. Interesting that prolactin is high in autism too, and as ritalin increases dopamine, wonder whether attention deficit kids have autoimmune problems?
>Yes, probably say some do. Some respond to tyrosine too.
Thanks Ray, you've been posting some good ones.
My problem is I'm not quite up to understanding this...half understand it now though.I know I have trouble converting carotene form VitD(skin goes an orangy color, at least before thyroid meds)..so I try to get VitD thru sunlight..which is usually pretty easy where I live..and if not in cod liver oil.
So now the question is is sunlight this form "1,25(OH)(2)D(3)" ? I knew to always take VitD3 form..
And what about cod liver ol?
Any ideas?
Thanks, Jan
Posted by tealady on October 2, 2004, at 19:38:22
In reply to Re: More stuff on lithium..interesting read from other, posted by TeeJay on September 27, 2004, at 6:43:21
> "Run across any bears? Might be some in the US and Canada? Do they have any in Europe at all?"
>
> Nah, not seen any! Might be the odd rampant Englishman growling around though if he keeps up with the selenium supplements ;-))Hmm Now I just need to know how to deal with bears and any "odd rampant Englishman growling around "..I wonder if you handle them similar
ANyOne in the Americas know what to do if you come across a growly bear? Can they outrun YOu? ..I guess they can climb trees too?
>
> I hear ya about the magnesium and ate mag glycinate tabs like smarties for some months a couple of years back but with little effect (couldnt even seem to find my tolerance level of them either (took 6 400mg tabs often with no effect)) also tried it with a a heavyish dose of niacinamide too and not much difference. Maybe the results may be slightly different now I dont smoke perhaps?My guess would be that you didn't absorb those mag.supps for some reason..maybe they were bound with cement? Some tablets I don't absorb or the fillers even have properties that counteract what you are taking...I end up taking liquids or powders or capsules containing powder a lot to skip the binders/fillers.
You should really only need say 200mg magnesium citrate (even 100mg might do it..1 tablet of the kind I got in England) if taken with the zinc and say 50mg B6 and a multiB/C (say levels 10-25).
Then (if you have a bath and not just a shower)..epsom salts in the bathwater occasionally is a way to get some magnesium..you can even on ocasion add a bit to drinking water..not too much though..I don't trust too much sulphates.
If you need more magnesium it's probably best to take some with calcium in a calc/mag combo at night..and if yoou think you need to slow down a bit ..like with the lithium, I'm not sure but calcium carbonate might be just the thing to take at night. Even magnesium oxide gets absorbed partly. I can notice a difference with it ..and so can others...it's just not the best type around if you have a choice...don't much over here.
Reason for not taking the B6 by itself is..it depletes the other B's and then you get some deficiency symptoms of the other b's...especially B1, B2, B3, B5, etc<g>..some of which could cause the symptoms you were/are experiencing.
And you usually don't need a real lot as they are synergistic? and you need the balance I was trying to explain for the best results.That n- acetyl-cysteine looks like it fits in real well with the selenium and this "group" of supps(zinc, B6, Multi, mag),.
And looking at a post by Ray.....
"N acetyl cysteine has been mentioned on this thread recently and both selenium and NAC are needed for glutathione peroxidase synthesis"
and
"Several foods contain naturally occurring glutathione, including avocado, watermelon, asparagus, acorn squash, strawberries, orange, tomato, cantaloupe, okra, peach, zucchini, and spinach."well I've never heard of acorn squash or okra and I haven't seen a cantaoupe..but I always feel better after strawberries and watermelon. ..and I use avocado instead of butter , say for steak sandwiches (steak is relatively cheap in Oz BTW). And oranges and peaches have always been up there too with feel good after eating foods.
spinach ain't..tried a lot last year and it did something dreadful..forgot what now..probably the oxalic acid, unsure.But I remember those delicious STRAWBERRIES in Wales and England,..huge and beautiful..and ended up eating a huge punnet at the airport before going thru customs that I'd bought that day...together with snow peas, etc..LOL
> Thanks for the info Jan.
>
> I've run out of the ginkgo now so will continue with what I have for a few days and then drop one supplement out every few days until I find which one seems to be causing the problem.
>
>
Only one problem with that way instead of building up gradually, It can take a few days(or even up to 3 weeks) before the effects of something that is a problem wears off?Hope you are feeling better,
Jan
Posted by Simus on October 2, 2004, at 23:13:43
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » karaS, posted by raybakes on October 2, 2004, at 5:15:30
That post really made me stop and think! You are so right!
Simus
Posted by karaS on October 3, 2004, at 0:21:22
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » karaS, posted by raybakes on October 2, 2004, at 14:40:04
> So low glutathione, low vitamin D and high prolactin are common in autoimmune disease. Interesting that prolactin is high in autism too, and as ritalin increases dopamine, wonder whether attention deficit kids have autoimmune problems?
Ray,To answer you question above:
Maybe not because ADD kids probably have too little dopamine to begin with - so if you're just bringing them up to a normal level, then maybe you're not exposing them to any risk of autoimmune problems.
-K
Posted by tealady on October 3, 2004, at 5:30:22
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » tealady, posted by Simus on October 1, 2004, at 23:12:57
http://forums.about.com/ab-thyroid/messages?msg=61297.41 and rest of thread (.42 especially)
Posted by raybakes on October 3, 2004, at 12:54:16
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » raybakes, posted by karaS on October 2, 2004, at 16:10:34
> Thanks, Ray. Someone recently posted an article about how deficient most of us are in Vitamin D and how closely related that is to depression. The article said that you could take huge doses of Vit. D without any adverse effects. Then I read another article that said you can overdose on D and it doesn't take much. What do you think should be an optimal dosage?
>
> Also, what supplements do you take everyday? What other additional ones do you add in sometimes? I'm especially interested in what you take for depression. Anything else besides the Norival?
>
> I can see from your last post that you really are in the right place here on the alternative board! Your comment about women wearing "carcinogens" to enhance beauty made me chuckle. I have always hated most perfumes myself. Do you take any medications at all or are you able to treat all of your health issues with more natural means?
>
> -K
>
Always find it strange that we call vitamin D a vitamin when it's a steroid! I've heard that all the fat soluble 'vitamins' A, D, E, K can be toxic in large doses, but hear different ideas about safe and toxic doses. I did buy a vitamin D cream from biotics but it gives me a splitting headache, so might try some other sources - I definitely couldn't take megadoses of that one! Frequently if there's an enzyme block, taking a precursor of something can cause a build up that further inhibits the enzyme - that happens with omega 6 oils with LA to GLA so perhaps that is my problem with vitamin D?I try not to take just a supplement, but first identify a pattern, or problem and have a group of things that work with that problem as I always find things eventually stop working, when they knock something else out of balance.
So with glutathione or NAC I take niacinamide, thiamine, lipoic acid, but if it starts to feel odd, include some selenium and B2 - I have been lucky over the last few days that I can tolerate a multi (thorne's extra nutrients), but usually it feels great for a while then I have to go back to individual nutrients.
Carnosine to balance cell pH and protect cell membranes.
DPP IV - helps to regulate inflammatory cytokines.
Max DHA
silica, helps regulate collagen and extra celluar tissue as they are involved in immune regulation, especially in the brain.
Norival!! my favourite! to help support dopamine and noradrenaline. Biopterin in norival also important in serotonin synthesis. Sometimes take DLPA.
also take every now and then because of autoimmunity blocking enzymes...
vitamin A from a fish source - autoimmune/hypothyroid people don't seem to be able to use plant Vit A or convert beta carotene to Vit A
Sublingual B12 - antibodies to intrinsic factor in stomach can inhibit B12 absorption and also betaine HCl because of reduced HCl.
Sulphation - MSM or epsom salts baths - dopamine, estradiol, DHEA, cholecystokinin, all need to be sulphated, as do several toxins. Phenols from plants and from degradation of dopamine and adrenaline.
Methylation - methionine, sublingual B12, folinic acid (active folate), betaine and P5P. Heard that rose petals contain methyltransferase, so tried some rose water from an asian shop! felt quite good!
It does cost a fortune, but I'm feeling human now, so going to stick with it! Don't take any medication.
I think women hold the answers to the worlds problems - too many men together will eventually start a war.....or a football match! Think it should be world law that all governments are 50/50 male/female, and illegal to call god 'he' or 'father'!
Ray
Posted by raybakes on October 3, 2004, at 13:53:56
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » raybakes, posted by tealady on October 2, 2004, at 17:01:04
> I know I have trouble converting carotene form VitD(skin goes an orangy color, at least before thyroid meds)..so I try to get VitD thru sunlight..which is usually pretty easy where I live..and if not in cod liver oil.
>
> So now the question is is sunlight this form "1,25(OH)(2)D(3)" ? I knew to always take VitD3 form..
> And what about cod liver ol?Thanks Jan,
I get the orangy skin too....drank carrot juice every morning for six months until people started laughing at me :(
Do you mean carotene to vitamin A though, haven't heard of a carotene vitamin D link?
I do take vitamin A from halibut oil every now and then as I've heard hypothyroid/autoimmune people can't metabolise carotenes or plant Vit A sources - Dr Megson has done a lot research on Vit A for autistic children.
I do try to get my Vit D through sunlight as I haven't found a supplement I can tolerate - from what I can make out Cod liver oil contains D3 (calcitriol or "1,25(OH)(2)D(3)") as do eggs and milk. What I'm not sure about is whether food sources of calcitriol will be seen as the same as D3 from sunlight....do you know?
Like Dr Mercola's pages and links on vit D..
http://www.mercola.com/fcgi/pf/2004/sep/11/vitamin_d.htm
Ray
Posted by tealady on October 3, 2004, at 18:22:06
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » tealady, posted by raybakes on October 3, 2004, at 13:53:56
> Do you mean carotene to vitamin A though, haven't heard of a carotene vitamin D link?
Sure do <g>..I'm not thinking clearly at present.
(that's also why I haven't replied to some posts of yours and JL's).
Guess I tend to think of VitA and D together as in cod liver oil too.edited<g>
I know I have trouble converting carotene form VitA(skin goes an orangy color, at least before thyroid meds).
I try to get VitD thru sunlight..which is usually pretty easy where I live..and if not in cod liver oil.
> >
> > So now the question is is sunlight this form "1,25(OH)(2)D(3)" ? I knew to always take VitD3 form..
> > And what about cod liver ol?
>
> Thanks Jan,
>
> I get the orangy skin too....drank carrot juice every morning for six months until people started laughing at me :(I didn't need to go that far..just a tiny amount of beta carotene in a multi was enough. I haven't retried but I assume it would still do the same. Not sure if taking thyroid meds would help at all with that.
I have skin that went orange, blue/purple especially lips and soles of hands/feet and red patches maybe like Lupus on face ..not at the same time <g>.
took a long time to maybe figure it out, still not completely sure except for the carotene <grin>>
>
> I do take vitamin A from halibut oil every now and then as I've heard hypothyroid/autoimmune people can't metabolise carotenes or plant Vit A sources - Dr Megson has done a lot research on Vit A for autistic children.
>I'll have a read sometime, thanks.
> I do try to get my Vit D through sunlight as I haven't found a supplement I can tolerate - from what I can make out Cod liver oil contains D3 (calcitriol or "1,25(OH)(2)D(3)") as do eggs and milk.What I'm not sure about is whether food sources of calcitriol will be seen as the same as D3 from sunlight....do you know?
not really...I think the sunlight is supposed to convert in your skin to the calcitriol, so it sounds the same.
Some may possibly get too much vitD from sunlight so need to cover up..talking about places like Saudi here..and maybe that's one reason for the traditional dress. I try to cover up in summer too, but there is still a big difference in skin and UV damage between England and here.
>
> Like Dr Mercola's pages and links on vit D..
>
> http://www.mercola.com/fcgi/pf/2004/sep/11/vitamin_d.htm
>yep, seen them thanks.
> Ray
Posted by karaS on October 3, 2004, at 18:24:46
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » karaS, posted by raybakes on October 3, 2004, at 12:54:16
Ray,
Do you know anything about "hypersensitive dopamine autoreceptors"? From my experiences with dopaminergic meds and supplements (they make me feel very tired) and from reading some of Dr. Jay Goldstein's work, I think that I probably have that problem. I wonder how that would fit it with selegiline, DLPA, Norival etc. When I took selegiline, I felt tired from it until many hours later when I got the activating effects. I've tried DLPA and do get a little bit activated on that - particularly when I add it to selegiline or when I consume a little bit of chocolate. So obviously the PEA effect is not a wash out with my malfunctioning autoreceptors. I wonder how the Norival would fit in to all of this. Probably wouldn't have much success with that either. I guess I'll have to try it to know for sure. I'm not even sure what I asking here. Just trying to figure out the full picture of what I'm dealing with I guess. Any insights you might have would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Kara
Posted by tealady on October 3, 2004, at 20:45:32
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog?- Larry » Simus, posted by raybakes on September 29, 2004, at 13:49:39
>
> > And to complicate matters, I have read that in people with both adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidism, the adrenal fatigue should be treated first. People with both can feel worse if given thyroid hormone before the adrenals are stronger. ???
> >
> Hi Simus, this study supports your view about treating adrenals first..
>
> Evaluation of thyroid function in patients with isolated adrenocorticotropin deficiency.
>
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1332472
>
> Ray
>Thanks from me too Ray, good one
Sounds like me I guess too. Unfortunately it's even more difficult to get lowish adrenal function treated or even tested...especially ACTH.
I think I'll have to try though.
It's all or nothing with most endos (Cushings, normal, or addisons).
Before taking thyroid hormones by morning cortsol was 310 (about 11 in US)..some say for safety it should be over 12..or preferably 15(multiply by 28 I think from memory for rest of world's units) or more to cope when your metabolism raises with the thyroid meds.After about 3 months on THYROID (Armour) my muscles went strangely really tight..like an athletes...then I developed carpel tunnel like symptoms. I had to add in cortisol to normalise, relax the muscles and stop the pain.
Before adding in the cortisol , my saliva 4 times a day cortisol tests showed pretty low...so low at that midnight (although I couldn't last up that long awake, so took it earlier)..it showed "too low for a reading"..and yes that was hw I felt.
So in me anyway adding in the thyroid meds seemed to cause my already "just coping most of the time" adrenals to crash..or that story seems to cover the symptoms.I guess liquorice would raise ACTH levels? (I need to check this)
I think it raises with
cortisol(by not converting)
and oestrogen(no idea how)
and raises sodium(maybe by helping retain in urine) as well as lowering potassium.
Ray, I'm really very interested in yur approach ..like lowering the antibodies ..as that has been what I have always thought would be the way to go.
You're way ahead of me though and my brain is not functioning very well at present..just wants to go away and do something else and forget it all(fishing sounds good).
I haven't heard of a lot of things you are taking..do you order them from the US..and how did you find out about all of this?
More later, but thanks. It's all very inetersting.
Jan
Posted by tealady on October 4, 2004, at 3:21:47
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » karaS, posted by raybakes on October 2, 2004, at 14:40:04
> Just came across this to do with autoimmune disease, particularly hashimoto's. Seems a genetic error in vitamin d production is common in hashimoto's.
>
> So low glutathione, low vitamin D and high prolactin are common in autoimmune disease. Interesting that prolactin is high in autism too, and as ritalin increases dopamine, wonder whether attention deficit kids have autoimmune problems?
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15296474this seems to say that thera re probably other enzymes that do the conversion to VitD3..so maybe no worries there?
"This idea may be supported by previous findings that complete loss of 1(OH)ase activity by genetic mutation of the 1(OH)ase gene in humans did not cause a reduction in serum 1,25(OH)2D3 levels sufficient to cause severe rickets (5, 6). It is therefore likely that, at least in humans, enzyme(s) other than 1(OH)ase (CYP27B1) are also specifically or nonspecifically responsible for 1,25(OH)2D3 production."
http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/142/7/2734
Jan
Posted by tealady on October 4, 2004, at 3:49:44
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » tealady, posted by raybakes on October 3, 2004, at 13:53:56
This explains where oestrogen fits in..maybe increases the no of vitD receptors that drives the uptake of calcium into blood(I think it's saying) ..makes sense. I found increasing oestrogen increased my calcium blood levels slightly(doubt if significant though)..still low normal range
"Estrogen and 1,25(OH)2D3 appear to have common activities in the intestine. It has been shown in animal studies[75] that estrogen stimulates the expression of the 1,25(OH)2D3 receptor that drives the calbindin-mediated transport of calcium across the intestinal epithelial cells. It is possible that the negative effect of vitamin D deficiency on the bones of aged patients is enhanced by this lack of estrogen-dependent expression of the 1,25(OH)2D3 receptor."
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/408926_2
Posted by tealady on October 4, 2004, at 4:57:48
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » karaS, posted by raybakes on October 3, 2004, at 12:54:16
>
> Always find it strange that we call vitamin D a vitamin when it's a steroid! I've heard that all the fat soluble 'vitamins' A, D, E, K can be toxic in large doses, but hear different ideas about safe and toxic doses. I did buy a vitamin D cream from biotics but it gives me a splitting headache, so might try some other sources - I definitely couldn't take megadoses of that one! Frequently if there's an enzyme block, taking a precursor of something can cause a build up that further inhibits the enzyme - that happens with omega 6 oils with LA to GLA so perhaps that is my problem with vitamin D?
>I heard something about not taking ALA if one is hypothyroid or maybe they meant hashi?..maybe something like this? (can't remember where)..just noted lipoic acid amongst your supps.
Personlly I haven't tried ALA..and is that the same as lipoic acid?
>
> So with glutathione or NAC I take niacinamide, thiamine, lipoic acid, but if it starts to feel odd, include some selenium and B2 - I have been lucky over the last few days that I can tolerate a multi (thorne's extra nutrients), but usually it feels great for a while then I have to go back to individual nutrients.
>
Glutathione (or NAC) sounds really interesting to me, especially when you listed the foods!. really there are the exact ones I feel pick me up..and its not like a sugar pick-me-up or even a chocolate pick-me-up either!Also I've scome cross the word glutathone relating to GP6D deficiency preventing something..I'll look it up..and low carbing can alter (slow) G6PD post transcriptional gene production ..or something like that!..so that is why I sometimes feel better if I have some glucose I think(instead of just low carb)...not sure on though!..get REALLLY lost with this stuff!
> Carnosine to balance cell pH and protect cell membranes.
Haven't heard of this one..I've no idea if I'm too acidic or too basic. Last blood test my Cl ions were high and bicarbonates low though. Still thinking about that!
>
> DPP IV - helps to regulate inflammatory cytokines.another newy
>
> Max DHA
>
> silica, helps regulate collagen and extra celluar tissue as they are involved in immune regulation, especially in the brain.I "think" I should get plenty of silica in my drinking water..collected off sandstone?..but I'd like more collagen production!..sems to have died in the past year or so..maybe even since I started added in fish oil and CoQ10..but that is probably a coincidence
>
> Norival!! my favourite! to help support dopamine and noradrenaline. Biopterin in norival also important in serotonin synthesis. Sometimes take DLPA.another I haven't tried
> Sublingual B12 - antibodies to intrinsic factor in stomach can inhibit B12 absorption and also betaine HCl because of reduced HCl.
how does one know if one has reduced Hcl in the stomach or not?
> I think women hold the answers to the worlds problems - too many men together will eventually start a war.....or a football match!
yes well, they activately promote football in some coutries and between sme nations in the hope of preventing war...appears to work too so far..although one word..always ensure you KNOW when the footy match is on ..as noone will be about, and you may be stranded for a few hours<g> ..and maybe pray for the umpire too come to think of it!Think it should be world law that all governments are 50/50 male/female...hmmm well that would certainly change govt anyway! Read a bit about Cleopatra at all?
Jan
Posted by raybakes on October 5, 2004, at 6:21:36
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » raybakes, posted by karaS on October 3, 2004, at 18:24:46
> Do you know anything about "hypersensitive dopamine autoreceptors"?
I don't but found this abstract when looking up references for iris...
and this article talks about the luteal phase of the menstral cycle altering dopamine receptor sensitivity..
http://jop.sagepub.com/cgi/content/refs/17/2/204
..and this..
"Estrogen and the Brain
The brain is a target organ for estrogen
Affects mood, mental states and memory
Acts on both monoamine and neurotransmitter mechanisms - stimulates increase in Dopamine 2 (D2) receptors in the brain."
Posted by raybakes on October 5, 2004, at 6:27:08
In reply to Re: treating adrenals first » raybakes, posted by tealady on October 3, 2004, at 20:45:32
Jan, found an abstract that said selenium was important for the adrenals to be sensitive to ACTH - guess that may be glutathione related?
> I haven't heard of a lot of things you are taking..do you order them from the US..Most of them are american but I order them from the nutri centre in london - owned by tesco, no less!
Ray
Posted by raybakes on October 5, 2004, at 6:32:04
In reply to VitD3 » raybakes, posted by tealady on October 4, 2004, at 3:21:47
Got very confused with the Vitamin D articles! All the different formulae and enzymes and routes sent my head in a spin!
I did try my 'biotics' liquid calcitriol again, and got the same headache! Thought about the A and D connection, so tried 12,000 iu of vitamin A from halibut oil, and it feels great! I don't get on with cod liver oil, so this might be a good combination.
Ray
Posted by raybakes on October 5, 2004, at 6:57:01
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » raybakes, posted by karaS on October 3, 2004, at 18:24:46
As I was looking up stuf on vitamin D came across this on vitamin D and dopamine.
'Activated vitamin D in the adrenal gland regulates tyrosine hydroxylase, the rate limiting enzyme necessary for the production of dopamine, epinephrine and norepinephrine'
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9011759
Posted by raybakes on October 5, 2004, at 7:14:00
In reply to Re: supps for reducing antibodies » raybakes, posted by tealady on October 4, 2004, at 4:57:48
>
> I heard something about not taking ALA if one is hypothyroid or maybe they meant hashi?..maybe something like this? (can't remember where)..just noted lipoic acid amongst your supps.
> Personlly I haven't tried ALA..and is that the same as lipoic acid?
That's the trouble with abbreviations - I meant linoleic acid, the omega 6 fatty acid! ALA is the same as lipoic acid, and is also know as thioctic acid. Think you're right, lipoic acid can interfere with T4 to T3 conversion - I take it as lipothiamine in a very small amount and do fine with it - it's essential for energy production and can help with glutathione recycling.>
> Also I've scome cross the word glutathone relating to GP6D deficiency preventing something..I'll look it up..and low carbing can alter (slow) G6PD post transcriptional gene production ..or something like that!..so that is why I sometimes feel better if I have some glucose I think(instead of just low carb)...not sure on though!..get REALLLY lost with this stuff!tried to guess what G6PD was, but had to give up and look on google! glucose 6 phospahte deficiency! G6P is needed to make NADPH, the molecule that supplies the energy to recycle glutathione.
> >
> > DPP IV - helps to regulate inflammatory cytokines.
>
> another newy
....really recommend DPP IV, and lactoferrin too!
> how does one know if one has reduced Hcl in the stomach or not?
sometimes drinking lemon juice after meal is a good test...if you feel better, it might be that the extra acidity is helping.Ray
Posted by Simus on October 5, 2004, at 16:45:36
In reply to Re: supps for reducing antibodies » tealady, posted by raybakes on October 5, 2004, at 7:14:00
> > how does one know if one has reduced Hcl in the stomach or not?
>
> sometimes drinking lemon juice after meal is a good test...if you feel better, it might be that the extra acidity is helping.
>
> RayThanks,Ray. You are amazing. I was just wondering that very thing myself. I do feel better with lemon in my water with meals.
Simus
Posted by karaS on October 9, 2004, at 18:38:02
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » karaS, posted by raybakes on October 5, 2004, at 6:21:36
Decreasing estrogen isn't exactly helping my dopamine problems. Boosting dopamine can't help either because my system won't allow for it. Not a hopeful picture...
Thanks anyway,
Kara
Posted by karaS on October 9, 2004, at 18:44:19
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » karaS, posted by raybakes on October 5, 2004, at 6:57:01
Thanks. My problem is that once the extra dopamine is provided, the hypersensitive dopamine autoreceptors make sure it's taken away quickly. Any attempts to boost it will ultimately fail. (I can take any kind of stimulants and they will put me to sleep.) I would love to go in there and just disable some of those d*mn autoreceptors!!!
Posted by tealady on October 9, 2004, at 19:54:04
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » KaraS, posted by raybakes on September 5, 2004, at 13:19:05
> Hi Kara and all,
>
> Came across your posts on a google search as I'm a fellow sufferer of brain fog.
>
> Don't do that well with NAC alone but find thiodox by allergy research works well - I had a liver genetic test done by great smokies labs and I have a null gene for one of my glutathione enzymes.
Hi Ray,
Did you find that taking glutathione itself helped at all?. I've read it is not absorbed well and it's better to take the NAC and synthesise the glutatione in your body, but without one of the glutathione enzymes(I'm not sure if you mean an enzyme that helps make glut. or one that breaks it down actually).
Just asking as a doc has just given me some glutathione...personally I would prefer to try the NAC..but I'm wondering if you found any benefit from taking glutathione itself?>
> Don't do that well with methionine alone but do well when I combine it with lysine - wonder if it's helping make carnitine? TMG and B12 are both excellent, but the B12 from intensive nutrition works best - other B12s have made me feel awful!
>
I was just reading about methione and lysine combined to make carnitine and was wondering whether to try carnitine or methionine..I have already tried l-lysine ..no effect(tried 2 bottles of) but still have another bottle here I can use of lysine. Of course it could be the tablets..with tyrosine I found I had to take the powder(or powder in capules form Thorne Research) and it had a great effect but the tablets did nothing.
> Sorry, I'm going on a bit! Not much more to go! Do well on thorne's st john's wort (hyper-ex), especially if I've eaten too many oranges.OK I've heard from a few diferent people that oranges, adn especially bitter oranges makes them feel better...what is with bitter oranges?
SJW made me anxious..so does niacinamide, and NADH after a while...I haven't worked that out as yet!but any thoughts are most welcome!
Think my cyp3A4 enzyme can be low sometimes, does it work on hydroxylase enzymes too? Interested that it also increases p-glycoprotein, and so helps with glutathione transport across cell membranes (and other conjugates too). For infection, I do well with lactoferrin, medium chain triglycerides and citricidin.....phew, hope you're not overwhelmed or bored!Err overwhelmed..not bored. I've looked at vitamins/minerals for about 20 years..some hormones for about 3 years..but everything else is new, so I'm struggling. Most of the things you are taking are new and interesting ..as well as probably relevant to me.
One thing I could give my feedback on is inflammation and cortisol.
I find that cortisol reduces inflammation. This is different from what some of the writings seem to be saying..or I may have mmisinterpreted?
I think folk use (with me sometimes and only out of desperation) cortisol to reduce inflammtion and antibodies too I think..feels like it.
Prednisone is prescribed (as well as cortisol) to reduce inflammation I think....as in Lupus.Out of all my female cousins, the only one without autoimmune problems (hashimoto/ Lupus) is the one who was on very high dose cortiol for a long period of time (due to a growth?..well something they drained with a shunt.. in her brain). Sorry none of my family seem to not bother with any names of what is actually wrong with them, what they are given to take etc.
Jan
Posted by tealady on October 9, 2004, at 20:20:22
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » KaraS, posted by raybakes on September 5, 2004, at 13:19:05
Just adding..
I was interested in methionine to form carnitine as I read it helps with mitchondria function..and hence metabolism..which I'm still trying to increase.
I'm on thyroid hormone (THYROID/Armour/T4&T3 etc.)which has helped but my temperature is still way too low ...hence the brain fog, cold etc.There is a bok a guy on the thyroid forum recommended to me. I have it out of the uni lbrary now..and It's the best!..On physiology and I think you'd be interested in it.
You can also read it online for free if you have account at Amazon..that means giving them your credit card details though.
It's called "Review of Medical Physiology" by William F. Ganong 21st edition , 2003. It's updated every 2 years. This is one book I'm definitely going to buy..maybe next edition! For now I'll just renew it from the library.pp303 of above book..you can view online
Fatty acid ocxidation & synthesis..says
"Carnitine is synthesized in the body from lysine and methionine.'
"Medium and short chain fatty acids can enter the mitochondria without difficulty, but long-chain fatty acids must be bound to carnitine"Jan
Posted by raybakes on October 11, 2004, at 8:46:22
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » raybakes, posted by karaS on October 9, 2004, at 18:38:02
> Decreasing estrogen isn't exactly helping my dopamine problems. Boosting dopamine can't help either because my system won't allow for it. Not a hopeful picture...
Hi Kara,I don't think the article was about a straight decrease in estrogen, it was more about the loss of natural rhythm to the menstrual cycle, paticularly in the luteal phase.
The other article talked about tryptophan excess altering the sensitivity of the dopamine receptors - so maybe something that antagonizes dopamine, may make it's receptors overly sensitive, as a compensation? what do you think?
"The greater prolactin response to l-tryptophan infusion in depressed subjects may be the result of an increase in dopamine receptor sensitivity, secondary to reduced dopamine levels."Another abstract made a mention of genetic errors in the dopamine receptor too...
Sorry, don't have any straight answers!
Ray
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