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Re: ever not forgiven someone

Posted by alexandra_k on August 24, 2019, at 17:06:32

In reply to Re: ever not forgiven someone, posted by alexandra_k on August 24, 2019, at 16:48:22

I was reading this article in the NZ Medical Journal that was written by an older surgeon, I can only suppose.

It was about the attitude that was prevalent in surgery when he was coming through. Or the attitude that was selected for. Or something like that. This attitude of 'we left something inside a patient that was supposed to come out'... Uh... Laughing it off. Letting it roll off your back. Hardening up. Toughing it out.

A... Solution.


A... Response...

Was that maybe we need something like a closed group internet website where young surgeons can write about the personal traumas they experience in response to the f*ck ups they make.

Was that maybe we need actors to pretend to be lawyers to role-play with young surgeons how to handle themselves in the court-room when the prosecution lawyers accuse them of all kinds of incompetence...

I wrote the author.

I was like 'there is going to be a part two on surgical checklists -- right?'


This is NZ and I suspect there won't be.

It is possible that there is something about this whole situation that I am missing... But it seems to me...

That there is a solution to prevent the situation of harm from arising / to prevent the need for forgiveness from arising. Surgical checklists. How do we prevent the surgical team from leaving things inside that aren't supposed to be there -- we do a checkist to make sure all items are returned to the tray before closing.


People are rather more invested in keeping the trauma alive.

Because they do not forgive. It seems to me.

The older surgeons are more interested in trauma bonding with the newer generation. They would rather listen to special victim unit types of gory and emotionally intense stories of all the atrocities and accidents and mistakes and so on... That the younger generation did... Got away with... That, uh, happened...

And we can find out about the long term effects of leaving this, that, or the other thing in various regions of the body, at any rate... Oopsie, did that get left in there accidentally? Uh huh, uh huh huh huh, oopsie.

There is... Motivation. Push... Incentive... To keep that. To keep that situation alive. That or something like that.

That (seems to me) is lack of forgiveness.

In the very best case. If not something more Machiavelli.


And then we have issue of informed consents. Which don't work. Because we don't believe in consent. Because we don't believe in equal persons. So....




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