Posted by Dinah on November 11, 2008, at 15:22:38
In reply to Re: :-( » Deneb, posted by Nadezda on November 11, 2008, at 14:15:27
> "I'm feeling overwhelmed at the moment by bad feelings and I want very much to feel better."
Could I make one suggestion?
I think it might be more accurate to say
"I'm feeling overwhelmed at the moment by bad feelings and I want very much to stop feeling so bad."
Deneb, I have the exact same response. Exact same response. My husband yells at the dogs or slams the door, my nervous system gets overwhelmed, and I get the sudden urge to (I'll leave out the precise method I tend to think of). It's a strong urge. And it's a real urge. I really am thinking it, and to some extent I really do mean it.
But I mean it because I see ending my life as ending the pain. The ultimate ending of the pain.
Linehan talks about this a lot in her video. That people with suicidal ideation and urges to hurt themselves have these thoughts because in some sense they are the ultimate in pain avoidance.
Deneb, I believe that when you say that you mean that. Just as when I think it I mean it. But I mean it in the sense that I want pain to stop.
I make the decision not to mention this thought to my husband, or any member of my family. Because it won't help my situation any to mention it in this way. Pragmatically, it's not a statement that draws the desired response. It may even make my life worse in the short term. Definitely in the long term.
Even when I mention it to my therapist, I try to be very clear that I'm not in any danger of acting on the impulse because I know that my therapeutic relationship is stronger if I don't put him under undue strain. And I also know that if I keep saying it, he'll eventually quit listening. He'll hear the words and not hear the meaning behind them.
So now I tell him "I want you to understand how really really bad I feel." And to us, that's shorthand for saying "I am feeling that I want to end the pain at any cost. I am wanting to demonstrate how very very bad I feel. I'm wanting to express it. But I'm choosing not to express it in a way that will damage my relationship with you or with anyone else. What I need from you is to hear the pain as if I'd expressed it more forcefully. I need you to understand how really really bad I feel."
Deneb, we know you here. Some of us care a lot about you. And others are expressing their desire to enter into a caring relationship with you, and their understanding of what it is that is keeping them from doing that.
I don't think it's *wrong* to feel the way you do. I don't think it's wrong to express it to the people who can handle your feelings without it damaging your relationship with them. Your therapist maybe. But in a totally pragmatic sense, it will benefit your life and your relationships to choose to express your pain in a way that makes other people want to reach out to you, and not in a way that distresses them enough to want to avoid the pain involved.
I totally agree to interpret your saying you feel really really bad to mean that you feel so very bad that it seems urgent to stop the pain now. Maybe you could put ***'s around it. Maybe not everyone is in a place to respond to your appeal at any moment. But you don't need to say more than that to elicit the response you want. And it might pragmatically work better for you to not say more, because you reduce the pool of those who feel able to help you.
People aren't trying to hurt you. People are trying to reach out to you and to arrange a way to enter into relationship with you. I'd feel pretty honored if I were you. It's easier for people to just ignore or walk away. It's downright flattering to know that people see something in you they want to reach out to.
And I'm saying that as someone who frequently gets the same urges you get, and who understands completely your desire to express your pain in this way and your desire to end the pain once and for all.
I know that you don't want to end the joys of life once and for all, and that there's no real way to do one without the other. I know you enjoy the large and small challenges of life. And shoes with dangerously high heels. I know you're looking forward to exploring all sorts of feelings. I know you're looking forward to all sorts of things.
poster:Dinah
thread:861559
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20081031/msgs/862342.html