Posted by alexandra_k on October 26, 2005, at 16:07:40
In reply to Re: What's the difference between... » alexandra_k, posted by Tamar on October 26, 2005, at 8:07:54
> Yes, validating it sounds like a good idea. I guess that’s a better way to think of it than feeling sorry for myself.
yeah. because if you think of it as 'feeling sorry for yourself' then that is invalidating it. because it tends to lead to thoughts like 'i'm so stupid to be upset about this' etc etc and that sort of thinking tends to make the pain worse. or sometimes... it will numb it. but i think the pain is more likely to recur.
i get the staring into space thing going on too. mostly in the evening for a couple hours before sleep and in the morning for a couple hours before waking. and during the day... it used to be real bad but it isn't so bad anymore.
> Ah, not focusing on the thinking. Yeah, I suppose I focus on the thinking and then it’s hard to feel.yeah. i'm not sure how much use it is to think through stuff in a detached / removed way. i guess if you are working on reconceptualising it in a way that is likely to enable you to move on it might be helpful... but if you are just reliving it in a detached way over and over then that doesn't sound helpful to me... if you are thinking yourself round in those head circles of 'i'm so stupid to be thinking about this etc' then i don't think thats helpful either.
that being said... i still do this sometimes...
>I’m not entirely sure how make the shift from thinking to feeling.
it is a matter of refocusing your attention. you can think of attention as being like a muscle. we get better at controlling it when we exercise it, because the muscle gets stronger... this is one of the things we did in dbt skills training group in the mindfulness componant. mental exercises...
one exercise is to be aware of your thoughts and to also retain awareness that you are not your thoughts. to visualise them in carrages or something like that floating through the greater space that is you... you can do this with feelings too. especially... when you are in danger of being lost in them. consumed by them. compelled to act on them. imagine them in carrages floating before your mind. they are one thing that is going on inside you but they are not everything. there is more besides...
with respect to feeling instead of thinking... for me that is what mindfulness meditation is about. sometimes you hear people say that the point of meditation is to think of nothing at all. but the trouble with trying to do this is that it is an antagonistic process... if i instruct you 'do not think about oranges for 30 seconds' you will find that is impossible to do. thats a fact about our thought processes, a fact about our psychology. you can't make yourself think of nothing.
but what you can do... is to refocus your attention on something else. what i like to focus on is how my breathing feels. if i can focus all my attention on how my breathing feels then i'm not aware of any thinking - see? we could haggle over whether i've stopped thinking or whether i'm just ignoring my thoughts but either way i'm not aware of thinking because i am feeling. sometimes it seems automatic that our attention gets focused solely on our thinking. its about learning to take control of that.
and the other thing is that the idea isn't so much being able to achieve total control, its more about noticing when your attention wanders and drawing it back on what you are trying to do... over and over and over and not judging yourself for the fact that your attention wanders.
to begin with we did this for 30 seconds.
i'm serious.
it is hard.
it took me a year...
but i got up to 30 minutes.
if i were to start doing it again (as i really should) i'd probably start at 2 minutes.
it is hard work.
but if you practice it when things are relatively okay it gives you more control when you need it.>If I recall, the CBT stuff seems to suggest noticing what we’re feeling and trying to identify the thoughts that go with the feelings.
yeah. thats because of their assumption that thoughts cause feelings. if you identify the thought then you can change the thought and that will change the feeling (that is the theory not saying i agree)
> Maybe it could work the other way around? Notice what we’re thinking and try to identify the feelings that go with the thoughts?
??
if you are numb... then you aren't feeling anything at all. i'm not sure that thinking helps us identify feeling... not if you aren't aware of having a feeling... with respect to labelling our feeling... yeah i guess...if you want to get in touch with your feelings...
then maybe it is about focusing your attention on how your body feels. especially the areas that are involved in emotion such as your gut your throat etc etc.you could think about it....
and be aware of your body...i don't know.
sorry.
poster:alexandra_k
thread:571839
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20051025/msgs/572154.html