Posted by 10derheart on January 15, 2005, at 23:25:22
In reply to Re: 10derheart, posted by messadivoce on January 13, 2005, at 23:07:52
Voce,
Here's some more input for you. I pray I don't just pick at the wound, here... :-(>once in Oct. - 30 days apart. I thought I was being very conservative).
I'm with you. Considering your agony and longing and wondering - you did great! Maybe he didn't give this much thought. I disagree with him.
> He mentioned the 2 year/APA rule and also threw in that a lot of T's don't even think a relationship should exist AFTER two years.
I'm clueless here. Unless he's so incredibly floundering in countertransference he slipped and has feelings (or the possibility of them) for you? (Not putting him down-just me thinking on the fly) I just don't know what to think. I swear I'd have to email him at least once more just to ask what the heck THAT meant! Sounds like a lame excuse for something that doesn't even apply.> He finished up by saying that he would be okay with me e-mailing him at his office "occasionally" (apparently once a month is too much) to let him know how I was doing.
Well, in light of this, IF you later decide to, I think occasionally is open to much interpretation. I've never known what was too much or just right. Only once did I get slightly "slammed" when old T. wrote, "Wow. Three emails." This was after a weekend where I got all distraught thinking I'd offended him and kept adding to my apology/explanation. Didn't like that remark and could never get him to fully explain it. It's tough - you could get more "scolding" responses that would hurt and tick you off.> Obviously I don't feel like I can e-mail him with therapuetic material because he's no longer my T, and if I can't make small talk then there's nothing left to say, is there?
I see your point there, quite logical, BUT, the man did say it was "okay" to email him and let him know how you're doing, right? So he has left a door cautiously cracked open and what you send through that door he can't control. To let a T. know "how you're doing" don't you have to use a (careful) mix of social stuff and a bit of therapy-type references? I mean, how else could you tell him? All I'm saying is IF (big IF) you try one of those "update" emails some day, don't worry about precisely what tone you take or if it's too social or too therapeutic. You just say whatever you say and he'll have to evaluate it, right?> I wish he would have at least said "I'm sorry, I didn't handle your termination well, I messed up," which is what he admitted to my current T over the phone not too long ago (so she tells me).
Yeah, he owes you that big time and it's a bit cowardly not to be straight up, especially after saying it to a colleague. Hope she didn't promise him not to tell you...oops. Again, IF you emailed, that would be the first thing I'd ask - politely but firmly stating your case and how important terminations are, and that it might help a lot in you NOT thinking you're silly or overdoing things if he'd be candid with you about what he'd do better, if he could have a "do-over." I imagine this is plenty hard for him, depending on his pride, personality, what supervisors are telling him, etc. But that's no excuse - the stuff in life that matters IS hard.> My little bit of consolation was the middle paragraph that stated that he still cared about me and if nothing else, wanted me to remember that.
Perhaps this is me projecting or being downright envious, but I'd really hang onto that if you're saying he put those words on paper. As much as I adore former T. and know from adding up all the small things and reading between the lines (actions speak volumes, too), he NEVER said or wrote *I care about you and I want to you remember that* Never, ever. So you have something there. And in light of this whole thing, I think he showed some heart and courage to not delete that part of the email. I'll bet anything he worried over it. Some hope, perhaps?>Unfortunately my heart is about 6 months behind the game.
Funny you'd pick six months. That's about exactly how long it took for me to get to an emotional place where I could write the post I did. And that is with the positive experience I was able to negotiate with my T. So I totally understand.>.......when I just want to scream in her office and throw pillows.
Do it! She should be able to handle that. (I am only partly joking...)>1) How does your current T handle your attachment/feelings to your old T
Excellent question. I've had 6 sessions and we're still going back and forth on that, IMO. I think he'd say we're not, it's settled and he's fine with it. I came to him saying the urgent issue is supporting me as I complete the transition by letting go of old T. He does really *get* how close the bond was/is, that I cantell. He was warm about it, seemed ok and said to cry, scream, obsess and talk about old T. for hours if I wanted to. Impressive. BUT, he sends some nonverbals that make me wonder and he keeps hinting I should talk about those things I never talked to old T. about. Plus, last 2 times he had this annoying thing where he called former T. by last name only, e.g., instead of first name (they did meet once or twice), or as I still do, Dr. LASTNAME, he suddenly says, "Well, sure, LASTNAME was a great T. and LASTNAME said blah, blah..." I hated that and didn't call him on it. It sounded quite rude and dismissive. First thing next week I will, though. So I don't know. I think he desparately wants it to be fine, and to help me however I need it, but his ego is intruding a bit. Maybe his impatience for me to get to deep issues and talk less directly about old T. is showing. It's not too bad, though. He is a kind, funny decent guy, I can tell. We'll see.>2) how often did you e-mail your old T after termination, and for how long have you been terminated? I have been for 8 months with mine.
I last saw him Jul 1, 2004, so it's now been 6.5 months. I wrote him at home (snail mail, w/his permission) 2.5 months after he left, and we emailed steadily for the next 3.5 months. It's hard to explain. We started w/firm no therapy boundaries (unethical, not licensed in my state any more, bad for me anyway) and it was left that way for 2 months. But if you read our discussions, it *was* 95% therapy. How could it not be? I think, truly, (as he's now said no one has ever asked for contact after termination before, and I took him to challenging, uncharted waters) that he didn't know what to call it, but was commited to stick with me and support me nevertheless. Finally ended up saying I'd been getting *transitional therapy*, which for a pdoc is okay - no meds, no regular sessions, but as much support as I need to get through pain of separation and get stable with new T. Says he would have done this here, if things had worked out differently with timing and I'd found new T. before he had to move.At times the emails (back and forth) were often daily (M-F), then sometimes only 2X a week. Never less. I lived in fear he would suddenly say stop-enough-too much, but just the opposite happened, really, until I found new T. I was constantly thanking God and just utterly amazed he was accepting of this much contact.
Oh dear, if I keep at this I'll only upset you. Reminder, this is a pdoc with 16 years under his belt, and very mature, spiritual and in tune with what I needed/wanted. An open-minded, stubborn free spirit in some ways, too. So, we may be comparing apples to oranges in some ways (not your old T's finer qualities-just the age, experience, wisdom type stuff)
I'll be glad to answer anything else, any time. Hope the tears are lessening a bit. Hugs - 10der
poster:10derheart
thread:441659
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20050111/msgs/442633.html