Posted by tealady on October 30, 2004, at 21:28:22
In reply to Re: Cholesterol metabolism ? Lar » tealady, posted by Larry Hoover on October 30, 2004, at 8:40:40
>
>Cholesterol does a lot of things in the body. It's much more than a substrate for tranformations. It dissolves into neuronal membranes, and modulates receptor sensitivity, for example. I'd also be concerned about the ratio of cholesterol to DHEA/DHEA-S. I think more in patterns than in absolute measurements.>Your liver cranks out cholesterol by the bucket, even if you eat none.
>Frankly, I think the whole hoohah about dietary cholesterol intake is bogus. Far more important is to control the intake of de novo (new) cholesterol synthesis modulators. Some fatty acids increase synthesis, and some decrease it.
***********************************************************************************Thanks Lar for your input to many posts<g>,
What I'm aiming at with these thoughts is..cholesterol is a recognised problem with many, probably more so with age.
I was under the impression that cholesterol is an essential part of ALL cell membranes not just neuronal ones..it stiffens them? , I'm not sure though as I haven't really tried to investigate cholesterol..I do know its important to not be too low as well as too high though..and I agree empathically with your opinion about the hoohah about cholesterol levels.back to what I'm aiming at...
I think inhibiting cholesterol production if one is too high is the wrong approach! like the statins, ACe inhibitors etc..).
On thing is CoQ10 production is inhibited,, but that's sure to be only one thing of many..
I'm at present being pushed by a couple of docs , and I agree my cholesterol is too high,
BUT all the things cholesterol is supposed to convert to in the steroid hormone pathway are too low.
This is probably the difference between 20yr old and 40 yr old..
I don't agreed that one should take statins though!!
What I think we should be looking for is what is stopping the cholesterol from breaking down like it did at 20 into the steroid hormones..and the other path ..with bile..and maybe another path with CoQ10?
Like why not approach the condition of high cholesterol from the opposite tack?Now one thing that does help (and this happens with just about everyone who was low thyroid) is thyroid hormones. One "symptom" of low thyroid hormone utilisation is slightly raised cholesterol. Many hypos get their cholesterol down just with thyroid hormone supps. I'm "typical" here in that my cholesterol has reduced..just not enough for my liking..and more importantly..I want to help my body make more oestrogen/DHEA/testosterone/cortisol etc
So I was looking at the pathways trying to find what supps one can take to encourage cholesterol to follow the pathways it should take and break down. like it should do.
I was trying to find what I might be lacking that was slowing down the breakdown..obviously I get some.
I thought this would be important for many here..well in the over 40's anyway. It should in theory help maintain godd testosterine levels etc. I would think as well as lower the cholesterol figure?
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>I get confused with the variety of lab tests, and reporting protocols. Often, when talking about cholesterol, very different concepts are being described.>What is your HDL:LDL ratio?
--------------------------
My test results follow..same units as rest of world minus the US...hmm I can't work out how to put any formatting on this site ..so its here
http://www.geocities.com/jan_narelle_tea/Cholesterol.htm> Still looking for something to aid in the breakdown of cholesterol(or even some research!)besides thyroid hormones....as opposed to a synthesis inhibitor. I need more of everything cholesterol is supposed to break down into<g>.
Actually I'm 100% sure that thyroid hormones do lower cholesterol..happens to all I think...but how I'm not sure of..whether by inhibiting synthess slightly or promoting its metabolism..which seems more likely but not certainSo then I looked at the pathways and posted this
I have read too that potassium helps in the breakdown from cholesterol as well as angiotensionII---------------------------------
<snipped from a post of mine>
"Angiotensin II stimulation leads to increased transfer of cholesterol to the inner mitochondrial membrane and increased conversion of cholesterol to pregnenolone and corticosterone to aldosterone. (12, 13).""High dietary potassium intake increases plasma aldosterone and enhances the aldosterone response to a subsequent potassium or angiotensin II infusion (11). The primary action of potassium for stimulating aldosterone secretion is to depolarize the plasma membrane, which activates voltage-dependent calcium channels, that permit influx or exflux of extracellular calcium (11). The increased cytosolic calcium stimulates the same two steps in aldosterone biosynthesis that angiotensin II does "
http://www.endotext.org/adrenal/adrenal24/adrenal24.htmIn my last blood test my increased my estrogen intake ..and my blood levels of both potassium and calcium were up (calcium up very slightly 2.40 to 2.42 normal..potassium right mid normal!) I read somewhere that estrogen increases the vitD3 receptors in the intestine lining allowing you to absorb more calcium into the blood from the intestines...not sure if really applies here.
I've been trying to reduce licorice too so that would definitely have something to do with the potassium increase..as well as a higher food potassium intake (I doubled the amt of potasium rich foods I'm eating!..now just to stop gaining weight!LOL)
<snip>--------------------------------
So then I started looking at the pathways as below
> > OK I looked up what is needed maybe in the pathways
> > http://www.genome.jp/kegg/pathway/map/map00140.html
> > "AND CLICKING on 1.14.15.6
> > Oxidoreductases
> > Acting on paired donors with incorporation of molecular oxygen
> > With a reduced iron-sulfur protein as one donor, and incorporation
> > of one atom of oxygen"
> >
> > so as well oxygen maybe I need iron-sulfur...there's that sulfur again!!!! (and iron)
>
> Oxygen is the second most reactive element of them all....more so than is chlorine (from electronegativity standpoint). Fire is an uncontrolled oxygenation chain reaction. Currently, the atmosphere contains about 17% oxygen. If it got up to 22%, it would be impossible to put out fires with water (itself burned hydrogen), as the exothermic reactions would not be cooled enough by the heat absorption capacity of water (specific heat), and the latent heat of vapourization.
>
> The point is, our bodies work only because Mother Nature has learned how to slow fire down, to control it somewhat. Sulphur loves oxygen. Oxidative stress depletes sulphur compounds in the body.
>
> > OK so for sulfur I need TMG, NAC, NAG ??
>
> TMG remethylates one particular sulphur compound, homocysteine, but it is not a source of sulphur.
>
> Common sulphur sources are methionine, SAMe, cysteine, taurine, creatine (a tripeptide with methionine). NAC is N-acetyl-cysteine, so it is a source. MSM too.
>
> > I guess something like magnesium sulfate is different?? I have epsom salt baths but they always make me very tired after..actually usually drift in and out of sleep in the bath. Note sure if that's the sulfates or just the relaxation.
>
> More likely the magnesium. It is taken in transcutaneously, though only slightly. Sulphates are not a good metabolic source of sulphur, as they're already fully oxidized (SO4--).
>
> >
> > Lar mentioned sulfur stuff to me last year too re thyroid hormones.
> >
> > Another cholesterol path
> > http://www.genome.jp/kegg/pathway/map/map00120.html
> > needs that NADPH again and oxygen
> > "With NADH or NADPH as one donor, and incorporation of one atom of
> > oxygen"
> >
> >
> > I thought that CoQ10 (ubiquinone) should be somewhere around cholesterol too? as the drugs that inhibit cholesterol synthesis also stop CoQ10 synthesis? But I can't find the link there.
> >
> > Jan
>
> The statin drugs do block CoQ10. That may be the mechanism of some of the side effects. You're likely going to see recommendations to supplement CoQ10 with statin drugs.
>
> Lar
poster:tealady
thread:359642
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20041022/msgs/409392.html