Posted by raybakes on October 25, 2004, at 4:24:39
In reply to Help needed with cholinergic drug reactions? » karaS, posted by tealady on October 24, 2004, at 18:23:35
> I can't seem to figure out what cholinergic drugs do? With me my bladder just retained urine..and I couldn't go..until the T3 (thyroid hormones) began to wear off and then I got a steady trickle for a day or so.
> I went to 2 docs at the time but both just put a question mark in my records and did the usual pretend I didn't visit them them..errr except that the bill payment was recorded <g>. Apparently what I should have done is go to emergency and get catherised..now I know grr
>
> So with all of this I'm trying to work out if acetylcholine, choline, or even say lecithin will
> have the same effect as cholinergic drugs??
> Really I'm so lost here??
>
> Is this what you mean? I really don't understand the terminology. What is meant by cholinergic?
Hi Jan,
From what I've read just now on the net, acetylcholine causes contraction of the bladder muscles to initiate urination....is that how you see it too?
Found this abstract about thyroid and bladder...
Influence of the thyroid state on the intrinsic contractile properties of the bladder muscle.
Department of Human Physiology, Faculty of Medical Sciences, University of Jos, Nigeria.The role of thyroid hormones on the contractile responses of the isolated rat urinary bladder strips to acetylcholine and potassium chloride (in depolarising Tyrode solution) was examined. Chronic administration of thyroxine (6-8 micrograms/100 g body wt/day) for 15 days caused stimulation of acetylcholine and potassium chloride-induced contractile responses of the rat urinary bladder strip. Thyroidectomy caused inhibition of acetylcholine and potassium chloride-induced contractile responses of the rat urinary bladder strip. These findings suggest that the thyroid state affects the intrinsic contractile state of bladder muscle.
and this about minerals that help with acetylcholine....
Effect of ions on the efflux of acetylcholine from peripheral nerve.
Dettbarn WD, Rosenberg P.
Department of Neurology, College of Physicians and Surgeons of Columbia University, New York, USA.
The nerves from the walking leg of lobster released acetylcholine (ACh) even when the ends were tied off, although this release was significantly increased when the nerve endings were not tied. The resting nerves were kept in sea water containing physostigmine. In absence of physostigmine no ACh was found in the surrounding fluid. Removal of Ca from the sea water reduced the release of ACh, while increased concentrations of Ca had no significant effect. Removal of Mg++ or increased Mg++ concentrations in the presence of normal Ca++ concentrations increased the release of ACh. Increased K+ concentrations had a stimulating action on the efflux of ACh. Increased or reduced Na+ concentrations had only slight effects on the release of ACh in resting lobster nerve. During the 4 hr observation period the excised nerves were still able to synthesize ACh. The choline acetylase activity was stimulated by increased concentrations of Mg++ and K+. The effects of ions on the release of ACh are similar to those reported at the junction.
also phosphatidyl choline is a good source of choline for acetylcholine, B5 is needed along with manganese for the production too.
The enzyme which breaks down acetetylcholine is called acetylcholinesterase - pesticides and deadly nightshade foods contain inhibitors.
Vitamin B1 deficiency and alcohol consumption adversely affect acetylcholine (B1 is also needed to make NADPH)
Ray
poster:raybakes
thread:359642
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20041022/msgs/406905.html