Posted by KaraS on July 9, 2004, at 2:17:54
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on July 8, 2004, at 9:32:30
>
> > > Ron and I may be in a special category.....long-term chronic dysfunction. Maybe that's a factor in responsiveness. Our cellular machinery might be breaking down.
> >
> > Unfortunatley, I've had over twenty years of depression so I'm sure I'd qualify for "long-term chronic dysfunction". Maybe it will work for me too then.
>
> :-/ Sorry to hear that.Thanks but I determined to change that soon. I'm going to explore and research until I find something(s) that work for me. Sorry to hear that you're in that category also.
>
> > > On an empty stomach, a dose of a pure amino acid enters the blood as a bolus, a term for a sudden concentration increase. That temporarily distorts the proportions of all circulating amino acids, and lets the effect of DLPA dominate. If you increase the size of the bolus (i.e. by taking a single dose of 2,000 mg vs. 500 mg) you increase the magnitude of that concentration distortion. If you instead separate that 2,000 mg into four doses of 500 mg, you get four small concentration peaks, rather than one big (and potentially overwhelming) one.
> > >
> >
> > I was just a little jittery with 500-750 mg. of DLPA. Adding the chocolate was what really made me shakey and jumpy. Also, I'm hypoglycemic. I usually only eat a lot of sugar in combination with other food so I don't get a sugar rush. I can't remember what else I had that day along with the chocolate though. When I took 500 mg. DLPA I was fine.
>
> Good!
>So I should be able to tolerate it - I just hope that it can do something for me.
> > So maybe if I were to try that for twice a day without chocolate... It's a real nuisance though to wait a couple of hours after a meal to take the supplements, then wait another half hour before you can eat and do that several times a day. You end up with your whole life revolving around your supplements schedule. I couldn't stand that.
>
> Considerations like that are a big part of my own psyche; if something is too much of a pain in the butt, it just doesn't happen.
>I don't think there are many people who could tolerate that kind of a schedule. That's a case where the cure is worse than the illness!
> "Empty stomach" really means "no other protein/amino acids present", in this case. When you arise in the morning, and reach for a coffee, you can probably get away with taking the DLPA, unless your coffee is a latte. A dribble of milk would be irrelevant, but half a cup would be relevant.
>
Trouble is that if I have just coffee, it will wreak havoc with my blood sugar because of hypoglycemia. I start getting really shakey, weak and light-headed. I'd really have to take it before breakfast or coffee.> Another "red flag" thought is hunger. If I start getting a meal ready, I down my "empty stomach" supps. By the time I'm finished preparing the food.....
I'll have to learn to cook more elaborate meals. I've been quite lazy lately but it would certainly work out better if I did more cooking.
> > > I'm perhaps more cynical. It's darned easy to acetylate an amine. Just because e.g. N-acetyl cysteine is a specific enzyme substrate doesn't necessarily mean that N-acetylation is a general enhancer of function. I need to look more closely at the subject. I'm just giving you my gut reaction here.
> >
> > So your gut is telling you that the specialized Norival product is probably not a big improvement over the regular l-tyroise. Maybe not worth a try then.>
> That is my gut reaction, subject to revision upon more thorough research. Your body already has transporters for tyrosine and phenylalanine, and each has high affinity thereto.
>I'll probably forget the tyrosine then. I think the DLPA is probably a better bet for me anyway.(Can't believe I didn't catch the bad spelling of it up above. Where is spell check when you need it?)
> > Someday I ought to try an MAOI. I always wake up slow moving, depressed, irritable and my mind is like mush - unable to focus or think clearly. This situation slowly gets better as the day goes on. By the time most people are ready to leave their jobs, I'm just starting to wake up. That makes me think that I have too much MAO which is active when I'm sleeping. (Isn't that when most reuptake occurs?) Or is this just the norm for those of us with atypical type depression?
>
> Having just arisen, with mush brain, etc., I can't speak with authority. What you describe makes me think of what is called adrenal exhaustion (in the alternative realm of medicine).
>
Interesting... I've read a little about it but never really considered it seriously for myself. I think it was one of those things that I thought I should look into more but didn't give it more attention than that. I'll go to the sites you've given me and read up on it more this weekend. It would be nice to have a label for things I'm experiencing and also a better idea of how to "fix" it.
> Here's the geeky "standard" version:
> http://psyphz.psych.wisc.edu/front/740%20Class%20Spring%202003/Gold%20%20Organization%20of%20the%20stress%20system.pdf
>
> And here's the alternative reality:
> http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/fulltext/stress4-4.html
>
> At this point, I would like to thank you for asking these questions. My own self-care is less than optimal, but when someone leads me to reconsider some of the issues related to treating these symptoms, I find myself refocussing on specific concepts and treatments. My own brain doesn't treat me as well as I wish to treat others.
>I can't believe YOU are thanking ME! You are a really sweet person. (But glad I could be of some help. I have lots of other questions to ask and I'll force myself to ask them in future postings because I do so love to help others.)
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You really ought to give TMG (trimethylglycine) a try. It has profound effects on my energy level. In fact, I have to be very cautious about dose because it exacerbates my insomnia.
> > > > >
> >
> > I'll definitely have to five TMG a try. Anything that can help with my energy would be amazing.
> >
> > > > Wouldn't TMG do the same thing as SAM-e? Since I had no result whatsoever form that, is it still worth trying the TMG also?
> > >
> > > Just throwing SAMe into a person is not the same naturally increasing SAMe precursors. Your body has exquisitely refined feedback regulators to control the *localized* availability of reactive molecules. Saturating the body with SAMe is not the same as letting your body create SAMe where it is needed. And I'm not yet considering the fact that too much SAMe is associated with high blood levels of homocysteine. There are other implications to consider.
> > >
> > > I think it is no coincidence that the human genome carries within it all the instructions for the induction of the formation of an enzyme which processes TMG. In other words, if the diet begins to supply TMG, the liver DNA activates the production of an enzyme with one known function, the methylation of homocysteine to methionine. Betaine (beet amine, as TMG is found in sugar beets) is another name for TMG, and that enzyme is called betaine-homocysteine methyltransferase.
> > >
> > > Maybe TMG has other functions (I know of a couple), which we don't fully understand. The thing is, taking TMG doesn't distort your natural biochemistry. In fact, your body is actually primed with a latent capacity to use TMG if it makes its way into the diet. However it is that your body actually works, I am confident it "knows" what to do with TMG.
> > >
> > (Assuming you're not short on that enzyme) (betaine-homocysteine methyltransferase)
>
> It isn't normally present at high levels in the liver, but it is inducible. Concentration of the enzyme multiplies dramatically, if the raw material is present. It is possible that some people have a genetic defect, and cannot produce this enzyme, but that's unlikely.I never knew enzymes could be "inducible". I guess I've been thinking of them in terms of being the rate limiting factor (i.e. the reason that some claim taking l-tyrosine and l-phenylalanine can't work)
>
> > Also, what about taking l-methionine directly? I actually have some of that here.
>
> I've use methionine, and it does not do the same thing as TMG. Perhaps the difference is related to decreases in homocysteine. Taking methionine will not reduce homocysteine levels. Or, perhaps the difference has to do with formation of the end-product of the reaction with homocysteine, which yields not only methionine, but also dimethylglycine (DMG), which is used by weightlifters.
>
I've also read that some people take DMG directly rather than SAM-e or TMG but from your comments above I can see where it might not be as useful.The situation you described with the body not knowing what to do with the SAM-e reminds me of the situation you described with 5-HTP. In the case of 5-HTP, if there is extra serotonin outside of the brain, can't it theoretically harm the heart (like with Phen-Fen)? (Which also makes me wonder about taking GABA supplements directly - what happens with the extra GABA that doesn't make it through the BBB?)
> > > Just for the record, on recent days (two instances) when I have used NADH and TMG, I am substantially enhanced in functioning the *next* day, and on subsequent days, rather than on the day I dosed.
Do you have any idea why that would be? You're not at all enhanced on the day you take it? Very strange when you consider that some people see improvement in an hour or two...
> > >
> > > I am using single 750 mg tablets of TMG, Source Naturals brand. The first dose of Enada NADH was 10 mg, the second was five.
> >
> > BTW, Is Source Naturals DLPA any good?
>
> My personal opinion is that Source Naturals products are trustworthy.
>
> > > Actually, about three years ago, I was fervent proponent of Rhodiola. I had actually considered going into the business of preparing Rhodiola for sale, and marketing my own brand. I knew people whose lives had been miraculously transformed by it. My own reaction was adverse, however. I had a paradoxical reaction to it (the opposite of what is expected). I have paradoxical reactions to pharmaceutical drugs, too, some of the time. Anyway, it messed me up, and I lost my ambition to market Rhodiola.
> >
> > Now that I read about your paradoxical reaction to the Rhodiola, I do recall your mentioning that before. It's encouraging that many people have had such huge success but unfortunate that you weren't one of them. Are you more inclined to be anxious or are you more in need of energy and motivation?
>
> I have anxious reactions. It's a trait. I developed energy and motivation problems. That's a state. Traits you're born with, states you develop.
>
> > >
Interesting way of putting it. I've come to see my lack of energy and motivation as more genetically based and therefore predetermined.
> > > > I just bought some of that and am really looking forward to trying it. I just have to decide if I want to take it with the small amount of Effexor instead of the SJW while I withdraw ... Decisions, decisions....
> > > >
> > I have taken two pills of the Arctic brand so far. One each on two different days. This only equals 180 mg. So far so good. Today I definitely felt more able to concentrate after taking it. I am no longer worried about tolerating it. I am more worried that it won't do much and will be another dead end. Short half life though? That means withdrawal, doesn't it?
>
> I'm very glad you are having a good initial reaction to it. Russian herbal practise is to use an herb for no more than four months, stop for at least one month, and restart as necessary. That pattern can be continued indefinitely. Withdrawal is seldom a problem with herbs, probably because they have such complex chemistry (hundreds of constituents, taken simultaneously). All I meant by the short half-life remark was that, if an adverse reaction occurs, it ends quickly upon ceasing intake. The adverse herbal reactions are generally self-limiting.Good to know there's no horrible withdrawal with herbs! The flip side of it is that you have to go off of them periodically.
>
> Good luck with the Rhodiola. The gent who turned me on to it had astounding results.> Lar
Thanks. I'm going to take two tablets a day soon because I'm not having any problems with the one. Still encouraging. What brands did the people you knew take? Did the guy who turned you on to Rhodiola (or the others you knew) continue to have success or did the herb lose it's power after a period of years? (I've never had much of a response to anything yet but I'm thinking that it's probably preferable to experiencing that "Flowers for Algernon" phenomenon.)
Please don't feel that you have to get back to me right away. I feel guilty for monopolizing you with so many questions because I know a lot of people are waiting for your responses.
Take care,
KaraS
poster:KaraS
thread:359642
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040613/msgs/364278.html