Posted by Larry Hoover on July 8, 2004, at 9:32:30
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog?, posted by KaraS on July 7, 2004, at 22:41:21
> > Ron and I may be in a special category.....long-term chronic dysfunction. Maybe that's a factor in responsiveness. Our cellular machinery might be breaking down.
>
> Unfortunatley, I've had over twenty years of depression so I'm sure I'd qualify for "long-term chronic dysfunction". Maybe it will work for me too then.:-/ Sorry to hear that.
> > On an empty stomach, a dose of a pure amino acid enters the blood as a bolus, a term for a sudden concentration increase. That temporarily distorts the proportions of all circulating amino acids, and lets the effect of DLPA dominate. If you increase the size of the bolus (i.e. by taking a single dose of 2,000 mg vs. 500 mg) you increase the magnitude of that concentration distortion. If you instead separate that 2,000 mg into four doses of 500 mg, you get four small concentration peaks, rather than one big (and potentially overwhelming) one.
> >
>
> I was just a little jittery with 500-750 mg. of DLPA. Adding the chocolate was what really made me shakey and jumpy. Also, I'm hypoglycemic. I usually only eat a lot of sugar in combination with other food so I don't get a sugar rush. I can't remember what else I had that day along with the chocolate though. When I took 500 mg. DLPA I was fine.Good!
> So maybe if I were to try that for twice a day without chocolate... It's a real nuisance though to wait a couple of hours after a meal to take the supplements, then wait another half hour before you can eat and do that several times a day. You end up with your whole life revolving around your supplements schedule. I couldn't stand that.
Considerations like that are a big part of my own psyche; if something is too much of a pain in the butt, it just doesn't happen.
"Empty stomach" really means "no other protein/amino acids present", in this case. When you arise in the morning, and reach for a coffee, you can probably get away with taking the DLPA, unless your coffee is a latte. A dribble of milk would be irrelevant, but half a cup would be relevant.
Another "red flag" thought is hunger. If I start getting a meal ready, I down my "empty stomach" supps. By the time I'm finished preparing the food.....
> > I'm perhaps more cynical. It's darned easy to acetylate an amine. Just because e.g. N-acetyl cysteine is a specific enzyme substrate doesn't necessarily mean that N-acetylation is a general enhancer of function. I need to look more closely at the subject. I'm just giving you my gut reaction here.
>
> So your gut is telling you that the specialized Norival product is probably not a big improvement over the regular l-tyroise. Maybe not worth a try then.That is my gut reaction, subject to revision upon more thorough research. Your body already has transporters for tyrosine and phenylalanine, and each has high affinity thereto.
> Someday I ought to try an MAOI. I always wake up slow moving, depressed, irritable and my mind is like mush - unable to focus or think clearly. This situation slowly gets better as the day goes on. By the time most people are ready to leave their jobs, I'm just starting to wake up. That makes me think that I have too much MAO which is active when I'm sleeping. (Isn't that when most reuptake occurs?) Or is this just the norm for those of us with atypical type depression?
Having just arisen, with mush brain, etc., I can't speak with authority. What you describe makes me think of what is called adrenal exhaustion (in the alternative realm of medicine).
Here's the geeky "standard" version:
http://psyphz.psych.wisc.edu/front/740%20Class%20Spring%202003/Gold%20%20Organization%20of%20the%20stress%20system.pdfAnd here's the alternative reality:
http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/fulltext/stress4-4.htmlAt this point, I would like to thank you for asking these questions. My own self-care is less than optimal, but when someone leads me to reconsider some of the issues related to treating these symptoms, I find myself refocussing on specific concepts and treatments. My own brain doesn't treat me as well as I wish to treat others.
> >
> > > >
> > > > You really ought to give TMG (trimethylglycine) a try. It has profound effects on my energy level. In fact, I have to be very cautious about dose because it exacerbates my insomnia.
> > > >
>
> I'll definitely have to five TMG a try. Anything that can help with my energy would be amazing.
>
> > > Wouldn't TMG do the same thing as SAM-e? Since I had no result whatsoever form that, is it still worth trying the TMG also?
> >
> > Just throwing SAMe into a person is not the same naturally increasing SAMe precursors. Your body has exquisitely refined feedback regulators to control the *localized* availability of reactive molecules. Saturating the body with SAMe is not the same as letting your body create SAMe where it is needed. And I'm not yet considering the fact that too much SAMe is associated with high blood levels of homocysteine. There are other implications to consider.
> >
> > I think it is no coincidence that the human genome carries within it all the instructions for the induction of the formation of an enzyme which processes TMG. In other words, if the diet begins to supply TMG, the liver DNA activates the production of an enzyme with one known function, the methylation of homocysteine to methionine. Betaine (beet amine, as TMG is found in sugar beets) is another name for TMG, and that enzyme is called betaine-homocysteine methyltransferase.
> >
> > Maybe TMG has other functions (I know of a couple), which we don't fully understand. The thing is, taking TMG doesn't distort your natural biochemistry. In fact, your body is actually primed with a latent capacity to use TMG if it makes its way into the diet. However it is that your body actually works, I am confident it "knows" what to do with TMG.
> >
> (Assuming you're not short on that enzyme) (betaine-homocysteine methyltransferase)It isn't normally present at high levels in the liver, but it is inducible. Concentration of the enzyme multiplies dramatically, if the raw material is present. It is possible that some people have a genetic defect, and cannot produce this enzyme, but that's unlikely.
> Also, what about taking l-methionine directly? I actually have some of that here.
I've use methionine, and it does not do the same thing as TMG. Perhaps the difference is related to decreases in homocysteine. Taking methionine will not reduce homocysteine levels. Or, perhaps the difference has to do with formation of the end-product of the reaction with homocysteine, which yields not only methionine, but also dimethylglycine (DMG), which is used by weightlifters.
> > Just for the record, on recent days (two instances) when I have used NADH and TMG, I am substantially enhanced in functioning the *next* day, and on subsequent days, rather than on the day I dosed.
> >
> > I am using single 750 mg tablets of TMG, Source Naturals brand. The first dose of Enada NADH was 10 mg, the second was five.
>
> BTW, Is Source Naturals DLPA any good?My personal opinion is that Source Naturals products are trustworthy.
> > Actually, about three years ago, I was fervent proponent of Rhodiola. I had actually considered going into the business of preparing Rhodiola for sale, and marketing my own brand. I knew people whose lives had been miraculously transformed by it. My own reaction was adverse, however. I had a paradoxical reaction to it (the opposite of what is expected). I have paradoxical reactions to pharmaceutical drugs, too, some of the time. Anyway, it messed me up, and I lost my ambition to market Rhodiola.
>
> Now that I read about your paradoxical reaction to the Rhodiola, I do recall your mentioning that before. It's encouraging that many people have had such huge success but unfortunate that you weren't one of them. Are you more inclined to be anxious or are you more in need of energy and motivation?I have anxious reactions. It's a trait. I developed energy and motivation problems. That's a state. Traits you're born with, states you develop.
> >
> > > I just bought some of that and am really looking forward to trying it. I just have to decide if I want to take it with the small amount of Effexor instead of the SJW while I withdraw ... Decisions, decisions....
> > >
> I have taken two pills of the Arctic brand so far. One each on two different days. This only equals 180 mg. So far so good. Today I definitely felt more able to concentrate after taking it. I am no longer worried about tolerating it. I am more worried that it won't do much and will be another dead end. Short half life though? That means withdrawal, doesn't it?I'm very glad you are having a good initial reaction to it. Russian herbal practise is to use an herb for no more than four months, stop for at least one month, and restart as necessary. That pattern can be continued indefinitely. Withdrawal is seldom a problem with herbs, probably because they have such complex chemistry (hundreds of constituents, taken simultaneously). All I meant by the short half-life remark was that, if an adverse reaction occurs, it ends quickly upon ceasing intake. The adverse herbal reactions are generally self-limiting.
Good luck with the Rhodiola. The gent who turned me on to it had astounding results.
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:359642
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040613/msgs/363989.html