Posted by Solstice on November 10, 2010, at 14:24:19
In reply to Solstice got good ideas, posted by muffled on November 10, 2010, at 9:24:25
Hi Muffled.. I am so glad to see you contributing your ideas.
> Eg. a council of elders.well.. the credit for the council actually belongs to hyperfocus, I believe :-) I took ideas I've seen from everywhere and just tried to see how they might fit together.
> They would cover for Bob when he gone.
> And ultimately then maybe this site would become more 'ours', and not so much just 'His'.The could cover in his absence. But I think that his ownership of the site is something that we all have to figure out a way to be okay with. In many ways, it is "our" site because without us, it would not exist. But when it comes to final decisions, those things will always belong to Bob. Just as surely as he created the site, he alone has the power to dismantle it.
> My main problem is with Bobs in and out, and his judgement about some things is not what I like.
When Bob is absent, it can feel unstable. No one's at the helm. I think making peace with the reality that we won't agree with every judgment call a leader makes is something we have to do to belong to any group. Any time two people are linked in some way - there will be differences between them. What they think is important... their methods of handling situations... how they feel about things. The key to 'living together' (think of what your therapist says about your parts) is to find a way to co-exist without too much conflict. Sometimes people can reach compromises when they differ. Sometimes they can't, and one person will have to defer to the judgment of the other, even though they don't really want to. That would take place with the formal CB process I have in mind. Posters who got blocked might not agree that their post was incivil. They may think the block is unfair. But if they want the block lifted, they will have to cooperate with a CB who can help them figure out how to think and feel about what happened in a way that helps themn stay within the guidelines and make repair - even if they don't feel like what they said did any harm. You mentioned having a part that sometimes gets disruptive for you, and how you tell that part to step to the background and wait until you have time to give the attention that part's asking for. It's kind of the same with this. We have to defer to Bob's civility guidelines because it is his site. Someone has to set the standard. He gets to make the rules for the 'world' he created. A Babbler that's been blocked is a little like that 'disruptive part' you mentioned. They are told to take a back seat. Then a Civility Buddy can 'sit down with them' and try to help them figure it out.There is just no way to avoid the reality that we have a Leader who has some authority that no one else can have. It's the only way for a group to survive and thrive.
> he's not really that invested in Babble, yet to those who post here, it is 'home',I think he's invested in Babble, but in a very different way than us. He misses out on some things that we enjoy because he is alone at the top. He cannot come to us with his problems. He can't talk with us about his therapy (if he has it). So in that way, it might feel like he's not invested like we are because we open up so much of ourselves here. But, he has a lot of time consuming work he has to do behind-the-scenes that no one sees. Maybe sometimes it feels to him like we aren't as invested as he is.
> People should have some degree of safety and autonomy in their own 'home'. Then they can feel more able to more fully share etc.
I hear you Muff. It doesn't feel safe when you don't know what to expect. There probably isn't a way to eliminate all inconsistencies. But there is a way to create a structure with a high degree of predictability. Since it's less about 'punishment' and more about restoration, I think whatever inconsistencies show up won't feel as threatening. Perfection is not possible, but when the consequences have a cushion, the imperfections will feel less like sharp glass and more like little bumps.> A council could override Bob(an effective council would).
I don't think that would end up working any better than keeping it like it is.
> The balance of power would shift.
I don't think it would be good to shift the power. I think it will work if, perhaps, Bob says "I want Council to develop a classification of incivilities, and recommend the block lengths they think appropriate, and submit it to me for review." Then he could review it, discuss it with Council, tweak it, change it, and send it back to them for further review. It's not about anyone 'getting their way' as much as it's about finding something workable that satisfies Bob's and the members' objectives as closely as possible.
> I would have more trust(over time anyways) that a broader group of people might better have the interests of the 'present' community at heart.I think trust will build over time if the system works. Bob won't look like such a 'bad guy' because blocked members would have the ability to get themselves out of trouble. Not by duking it out with him over the merits of the block, but by putting themselves into the CB process to make reparations.
Thanks again Muff for sharing your thoughts... it will take all of us working together to make it work.Solstice
Solstice
poster:Solstice
thread:969088
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20101014/msgs/969637.html