Posted by Solstice on November 9, 2010, at 23:02:38
In reply to Re: to stumble on magic, posted by Dr. Bob on November 9, 2010, at 19:13:13
> > It's not about stumbling along until we find magic to open somebody else's mind to convince them "I'm Right!" ... Let's dispense with stumbling along.
>
> I wish it were so easy. :-)I haven't run into much that's easy. Didn't mean to imply I thought it would be easy... :-)
> > Instead of magical stumbling and mind-changing, why don't we work together to create a structure for handling inevitable incivility in a way that maximizes its decrease, and minimizes community turmoil, disruption, and pain.
>
> It's not either-or. How do we decide what structure to create? working together = stumblingI sure didn't mean to sound like I think in terms of either-or.. but I don't see much potential for the effectiveness of focusing on hoping to magically stumble into something or holding out for mind-changing powers.
Bob and Community
First.. let me say that I know I'm technically 'new,' and it might seem forward of me to be giving so much input on an issue that long-participating members have struggled with for aeons. Mine is only one voice, and I certainly don't consider mine to be more valuable. But putting together 'systems' is what I know how to do, so I'm just trying to make a contribution to the valiant effort of Babblers to have a more merciful system of managing inevitable incivility.
Bob - the way I was thinking of 'stumbling' is that for as long as it's just a lot of talk and little or no movement toward actually constructing a system, then it's just 'stumbling along.' It's the dynamic of 'all talk...no action... Dr. Bob seems to 'check-out'... enormous blocks for minor infractions continue... lots of people in pain... that is the "stumbling along" I'd suggest we dispense with.
I think the community will have no trouble coming up with ideas for what kind of structure to create. But Bob, if you are not fully participating and interested in the goal, there's no point in Babblers getting their hopes up and investing the time and effort to put something together. I'll offer my ideas. I envision it evolving like anything in its pilot stage.. won't know what works best or how well it works until we start trying it. I'd suggest starting with one piece of the system. Construct it, put it in place, and test-drive it, then tweak it. I'd also suggest that we start with the piece that will give the most bang for its buck.
BLOCKS: Many members have brought up a wholesale "Amnesty" for everyone currently blocked. I am not Jewish but there is a marvelous ancient Israelite law that provided for a wholesale forgiveness of everyone's debt every 7th year - Sabbatical. I think that after putting some provisions in place to handle incivility from that day forward, I think it would invigorate the community for all of those blocked to be 'set free.' There could be some difficulties with that, in that there would be members who've had difficulties in the past regain posting privileges all at once, in a new system. You'll have the best sense of the potential for that to be a problem - so if wholesale release isn't the best idea, then maybe reducing everyone's block to 10% of its original length or something similar would provide for a more gradual influx.
CIVILITY BUDDIES: The only way a wholesale release of Blocks will be successful is if the incivility continues to be managed. A system using Civility Buddies is worth trying. Right now, people can volunteer to be CB's, and members under threat of block can ask for help from CB's. That works great for people who have sufficient insight to realize they need to get assistance. Those folks don't generally end up with these unbelievable blocks, though. Maybe there can be a process where a member cited for incivility chooses i) get a Civility Buddy to walk them through the process of repairing the incivility and making it 'right'; or ii)default to however Bob wants to handle their incivility. This puts the power in the hands of the infractor. Maybe it can be set up for a temporary suspension of posting privileges by CB's until the infractor decides which route to take - and release of of the suspension is contingent on the infractor's cooperation with their Civility Buddy. There are a multitude of ways a Civility Buddy system can work when a potential block is being handled.
ELDER'S COUNCIL: This might be a fabulous dual-purpose group. As already suggested, the Elder's Council could serve to work with Dr. Bob on determining whether a member really has been incivil, developing a more consistent and predictable application of blocks for those who opt out of the CB route, and fill in for Bob when he is absent or unavailable.
These are all just ideas. Others may have better ideas. But it's a starting place. I don't think it has to be set up perfectly. 'Kinks' can be worked out along the way.
I just think it is really, really important that movement take place, and I think whatever the system is, it must satisfy Dr. Bob's objectives for maintaining civility. A syste that circumvents blocking like I've suggested might make it easier for Bob's sometimes narrow latitude on incivility to be better tolerated, less contentious.
> > Suggestions have been offered by community members. Do you have any intention of addressing these things? If not, please say so... because I don't want to invest my valuable time and energy thinking about it if you have no interest. If you do - then let's get to work.
>
> I'm addressing Health.?? I was referring to whether you intend to address the valuable contributions members have made as they attempt to find a way to satisfy your objectives in a manner that is less harsh and punishing than excessive blocks for every little infraction... as in an Elder's Council... a more organized system of Civility Buddies.... the system I described using Mediators. I am not sure where your answer of "Health" fits?
> One poster has offered to be a volunteer civility buddy/monitor. Do other posters have any intention of taking responsibility for anything?
>
> Bob
This community is huge, Bob. I think there needs to be a little more structure to a system handling incivility than asking for volunteers to 'take responsibility' for... what? That's why a system needs to be constructed, so it's got reliable boundaries, and defined roles and processes. It doesn't need to be complicated.. it just needs to work and be flexible enough to be tweaked as we figure out how well it works.Solstice
Solstice
poster:Solstice
thread:969088
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20101014/msgs/969512.html