Posted by JohnX2 on February 23, 2002, at 15:19:07
In reply to Re: selegiline stuff » JohnX2, posted by Jason911 on February 22, 2002, at 23:11:08
Jason911,It sounds like you know your stuff. I'll add
some comments and my experience. I have experimented
with Jumex in the same manner that you are trying.In regards to Wellbutrin, the medicine long term inhibits
firing in an area of the brain called the "locus coeruleus".
This is a central noradrenergic nucleus that is very sensitize
to stress. Wellbutrin has metabolites that are potent norepinephirine
reuptake inhibitors that long term desensitize the alpha-2 feedback
receptors in this area of the brain which causes the firing rate to
slow down. This causes a net increases in norephinephrine in the synapse
with a slower firing rate. The slower firing rate gives reduced anxiety.
But it takes time for the alpha-2 feedback receptor to be downregulated.
Allthough I will admit that 3 months is a long time to be on the
medicine, albeit you just found out what the right dose is and you have
been experimenting with other medicines on the side. In fact by taking
the MAO inhibitor with Wellbutrin you are probably giving the illusion that
wellbutrin is making you anxious and here is why. The Alpha-2 feedback
receptor tells the neuron to stop firing noradrenaline. The reuptake
inhibitor is already increading noradrenaline in the synaptic clept.
When you include an MAOI inhibitor the neuron will shoot out more noradrenaline
than intended and the alpha-2 feedback inhibition mechanism will be
stymied. Of course I could be wrong and maybe you have tried wellbutrin for
an extended period of time without jumex. There may be some ways
to tame the Wellbutrin anxiety with Neurontin or
possibly with an Alpha-2 agonist like Clonidine or
Tenex.As far as precusor loading goes, I wouldn't expect too much unless
you can get your hands on l-dopa. The rate limiting
conversion for phenylalanine->tyrosine->dopamine is not
the amino acid it is an enzyme called tyrosine hydroxylase.
Your diet already saturates tyrosine hyroxylase with enough
phenylalanine. BTW, I actually found that Wellbutrin
reduced my anxiety and Jumex made me really anxious.
You can really increase the power of Jumex by taking Remeron,
but you are playing with fire and will be really anxious.
The Remeron antagonizes the alpha-2 feedback receptor and I think will
increase the tyrosine hydroxylase enzyme. This will cause
major heart racing and high blood pressure but it mirrors
amphetamines from my experiment. Yohimbine should work too, but
I wouldn't try it, it will make you super anxious and
can give you a hypertensive crisis. I really would try
to do an add-on to wellbutrin to lower the anxiety first.
I personally know someone on this group recently
who was very jittery on Wellbutrin after getting
a response, so much so his hands shook and he couldn't
hold a cup. 1 week later he said he felt less anxious
than when he started the medicine.-John
> I have been on Wellbutrin for 3 months!!! 300mg/day didn't work and finally at 450mg/day it is starting to take effect, it's been like 9 days or so on this. I'm beginning to feel better but WAY more anxiety attacks. Klonopin is up to 2.5mg/day recently and.... well let be back up a step. When I was on the 300mg/day dose, a few weeks ago (since I was prescribed .5mg clonazepam for sleep/anxiety) I took 2mg of Klonopin at once and for that one day I felt amazing!!! My anxiety was gone I felt relaxed, I felt normal. The Wellbutrin hadn't seemed to work at all until the recently added increase to 450/mg a day. And either I need to up the Klonpin dosage or I'm stopping the Wellbutrin. I know that Wellbutrin only midly binds the DA uptake and actually diminishes it's release! I am confident that selegiline will help with Klonopin and NO Wellbutrin. People in past posts were worried about Wellbutrin+Klono+Deprenyl and seizure risk.. but Klonopin has anti-seizure benefits, so that wouldn't be a problem. Anyway, I am going to stop the Wellbutrin and go on the selegiline. Even if the 5mg/day (which WILL inhibit MAO-B) doesn't have an extreme dopaminergic effect..the PEA levels should make me feel alert, sexually stimulated, while the Klonopin acts to ease my anxiety. Just read this post my a guy named Adam:
>
>
> " First off, a disclaimer: I've only done a cursory
> browsing of the Selegeline posts.
> As I mentioned in another thread, my pdoc
> (surprisingly) gave me Selegeline for Social
> Anxiety, after Nardil quickly pooped out but
> created troublesome, long-lasting side effects.
> The Selegeline was a total bust after four weeks
> (at 15mg). No reduction whatsoever in my Social
> Phobia (BTW, I am not clinically depressed).
>
> There WERE some pleasant (!) side effects, such as
> increased libido and intensified sexual sensations
> (nice!), as well as some needed (mild) lowering of
> my blood pressure. No bad side effects.
>
> But since there was zilch improvement in the
> Social Anxiety, I went off the Selegeline (Cold
> Turkey's O.K. at 15 mg), and insisted he let me
> try Klonopin (currently 2mg/day). Fairly
> promising results after about a week. But then I
> suggested (to my rather perplexed pdoc) that I add
> back some low-dose Selegeline for mildly
> hypotensive effects and possible sexual/cognitive
> effects...and WOW! I don't know if this will
> last, but the Social Phobia is virtually gone; my
> confidence and concentration are currently through
> the roof (despite minimal sleep of late, owing to
> ultra-busy-ness, NOT insomnia or mania), libido
> sky-high, and BP down (though not quite
> enough...may move from 5mg. to 10mg. of
> Selegeline...still low enough to avoid the MAOI
> food restrictions...OR add pindolol...but I'm
> afraid to mess with such success!) Of course,
> Selegeline's fabled life-extension and
> brain-protection qualities don't hurt either. I
> probably shouldn't have written this; I'm rarely
> superstitious, but for some reason I'm afraid I'll
> jinx the wonderfully effective combination I
> concocted!
>
> Maybe Selegeline works best for augmenting other
> meds in mental problems, just as it serves as a
> levodopa (sp?) potentiator for Parkinson's. Just
> a thought. (As always, YMMV) Of course, your
> doctor would have to carefully assess any possible
> adverse reactions/dangerous combinations.
>
> In any event, I'm excited about the
> Klonopin/Selegeline combo. Has anyone else used
> this for Social Anxiety, or have I discovered a
> "magic combo"? "
>
> >>> Well, there you have it. It took a while till the real solution was found. I think this will be the same in my case. Wellbutrin does nothing but cause anxiety. 1 pill of Yohimbe Fuel (8mg yohimbine) causes the same effects in me and I don't want all that Wellbutrin crap in my system. It's just making more and more anxiety filled!!!! I hate it!!!!! My pdoc is an idiot. He refuses to prescribe selegiline so I've ordered it myself. I'm going off the Wellbutrin. Period. I've made up my mind. And I've also made up my mind that Klonopin is the best anti-anxiety med in the nation but has only one drawback... short-term memory effects. That's where Jumex comes into play. And I wouldn't mind the sexual benefits as my sex drive has been pretty much crappy. I want to have sex and everything but my body won't cooperate when the anxiety kicks in. I know I don't have physical ED. I think the PEA will fix that right up. I'm going to add a regimine of 600mg phenylalanine (converts to PEA), Vitamin B6 (helps convert phenylalanine to PEA), and PEA is rapidly broken down by MAO-B which deprenyl inhibits. I feel it in my bones... I HAVE FOUND THE SOLUTION. But it'll take 3 weeks for the Jumex to arrive... damn. -Jason911
poster:JohnX2
thread:95046
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020222/msgs/95232.html