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Re: Methadone for depression. Elizabeth

Posted by JahL on December 11, 2001, at 19:45:30

In reply to Re: Methadone for depression. JahL, posted by Elizabeth on December 9, 2001, at 16:04:58

> Jahl, would you be interested in exchanging emails?

Hi Elizabeth. Yeah, definitely. I'll set up a free email a/c. Bear in mind it takes me a couple of days to do anything.

>- you can be pretty resourceful and clever --

and may I say what a fine judge of character you are :)

>and I wonder if maybe you could help me figure out what to do about my own situation.

Seriously, I doubt there's much me & my dilapitated brain could tell She Who Knows Everything Medical. But there's probably something to be gained (certainly on my part) from exchanging experiences & whatnot. There's only so much you can say here...

> > very psychotherapy (Eck!) orientated.

> As you've probably noticed, I share your gag reflex toward talk therapy.

Yeah, I thought I had a sympathetic audience on this thread. I won't talk to psychotherapists on principle; I despise them for reinforcing the publicly held notion that people with serious mental illness can cure themselves if only they would *try*. I'd like to see them try. They frequently hock their unscientific treatments on the back of benzo- and opiophobia thus making life more difficult for the likes of you and me who are seeking a *legitimate* (if unconvential) treatment. Anyway, enough of that. I'll start a debate off if I'm not careful.

> I *hate* dealing with bureaucrats. And it's so hard to advocate for yourself and make sure your rights are respected when you're depressed, isn't it?

I've made this point to pdocs many times. What happens to those who are too depressed to advocate for themselves in the way I (just about) am able to? What happens to those who are w/o a decent education or who have no net access? They're often consigned to rot in brain-corroding 'day-care' centers, with no discernable treatment plan.

> Being a regular psych patient can be hell, but I can only imagine how awful it must be for drug addicts. They're treated as though they're sub-human, or at the very best, the worst sort of criminals.)

Yeah, that's kinda the point of my theory. When I refer to Methadone 'users' I mean Heroin addicts; I wasn't aware Methadone was used for pain here in the UK (if it is, they're not telling. And why, when a respectable businessman and I had identical hand tendon operations, did he get different coloured painkillers to me ?!?! Hmmm..). Users have to queue up each day for their little bottle of salvation and be thankful it lasts as long as it does...

> So the question is, are depressives more like pain patients or MMT patients in their opioid dosing requirements? FWIW, I can tell you that I need to take bupe several times a day, whereas I believe that it's used once daily when it's given to addicts for maintenance therapy.

Interesting. In the same way, for me Methadone *seems* to work better if taken as for pain.

> > I have a pet theory (actually I just this minute rolled a spliff and dreamt it up) that Methadone users are misinformed re: Methadone half-life so as to punish users for a couple of hours prior to their next dose for daring to be addicted to something that makes them feel good (H). I mean, who do they think they are??!

> I know that it's hard to get benzos in the UK; I wasn't sure about opioids. Here, a lot of doctors still refer to them as "narcotics." That says it all for me.

Yeah, the couple of times I have vainly brought up the idea of opioids I have been asked "You mean Heroin?" [writes on notes : 'DRUG ABUSER'].

> > Opiate is an obscene word, especially after 'Dr Death' aka Dr Harold Shipman was found to have been addicted to PETHEDINE-Elizabeth, if you're reading, know anything about this one?-whilst murdering maybe 500 patients with Diamorphine. Even you insular Yanks ( :-) ) must have heard about this one a year or 2 ago.)?
> I actually don't know that story, no.

I actually meant do you know about Pethidene :-). Since you ask...the guy started out as a GP (community doc) and soon developed a penchant for Pethidene. Later his habit was discovered but he was allowed to continue handling opiates. Anyway, soon after graduating he administered a lethal dose of Diamorphine to an elderly lady patient and pronounced her dead (cardiac arrest). This set the pattern for the following 25 years in which it is thought he murdered some 500 patients (nearly all female, elderly & living alone). He made regular house calls and it was on these that he would generally administer his lethal injections. Apparently he liked 'playing god'. Post-mortems never tested for Morphine (which of course he knew).

It was only a couple of years ago that a local registrar checked the records and realised the senior citizen death rate at his surgery was twice the ntl. average! He is w/o doubt this country's 'greatest' serial killer. When they searched his house they found a *2 litre* (!) stockpile of Diamorphine. All the ammo the govt. needs to further tighten controls...and punish people like myself.

> (BTW, U.S. readers might not recognize some of the drug names you use. Pethidine is what in the U.S. is called meperidine or Demerol -- a very short-acting opioid, not useful for our purposes; and diamorphine is of course diacetylmorphine, better known as heroin.)

Opiate information of any kind (except the kind that tells you how many years in prison possession will earn you) is obviously Classified in the UK going by my web search. It's as if they don't exist. I *think* the following could be 'available' (ironic I know) here:

P,SL Buprenorphine (1)
O Codeine (5)
R Dextromoramide (2)
O,P Diamorphine (2)
O,P Dihydrocodeine (1)
O Dipipanone (1)
O Dipipanone & cyclizine 10mg/30mg 4 tablets new July 2000
Topical Fentanyl patches (50mcg) (3)
O Meptazinol (1)
O,P,R Morphine hydrochloride (2)
O,P,R Morphine sulphate (2)
P Nalbuphine (1)
R Oxycodone 90 mg new July 2000
O,P Pentazocine (2)
O Phenazocine 20 mg new July 2000
O Pethidine (1)
O Tramadol (1)

See anything you like? :-P DEXTROMORAMIDE (Palfium) & DIPIPANONE (Diconal)-"Pinkies"-seem to be the main ones. Any thoughts?

> I know; it's so frustrating that many pdocs don't seem to believe that you know what your own subjective experience is better than they do!

Don't get me started...

> > > After Christmas I hope to turn into a person again.

> This is the fifth Christmas in a row that I've found myself wishing for the same present.

Let's hope St. Nick gets his act together.

Take care,




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