Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1108406

Shown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Insomnia-euphoria

Posted by Jadde on February 9, 2020, at 16:44:59

Last night I stayed up all night. Not by choice, and this is very rare for me. When I got up I felt wide awake which was of course strange. Around 11am I suddenly felt high, a euphoric feeling that lasted all day. Feel like Im coming down now but still high.

I gutted my kitchen, my bathroom, 3 loads of laundry, opened all the windows, played loud music, etc.

Well of course at first I assumed this was my beloved Nardil starting to work again. Until I looked up the side effects of no sleep for 24 hours. One, for some people, is euphoria. What a buzz kill.

Am I the only one who didnt know about this? If it turns out it was sleep deprivation, I would be very interested in sleep quality as it relates to depression, and why/how this happened.

Btw- this wasnt a good mood, I was definitely high.

So now I have to just wait which is excruciating. Is it Nardil? Or is it (likely) sleep deprivation. Oh well, I got one excellent day out of it, I guess thats better than nothing.

https://psychology.berkeley.edu/news/pulling-all-nighter-can-bring-euphoria-and-risky-behavior

Jade

 

Re: Insomnia-euphoria

Posted by rjlockhart37 on February 9, 2020, at 22:40:53

In reply to Insomnia-euphoria, posted by Jadde on February 9, 2020, at 16:44:59

oh yes, it has happened to me, i know what it feels like, you can't sleep, and you dread not being able to function the next day, then when you force yourself to get up your dopamine levels are elevated, it's a sleep deprivation symptom meaning hte body is using additional resources to keep the going. It's almost like a buzz or a slight high, but eventually you have to get sleep, because it will wear you down and down, until you can't function. I've gone sleep deprivation for about 2 days on a buzz, but anything after that you wear down.

Your neurotransmitters are elevated in response to keeping goign without sleep, yes its almost liike a high or buzz. But eventually you have to get long rest. If your up for days, you start to feel like your goinging into madness, and lose track of things. But first few days are like a buzz.

 

Re: Insomnia-euphoria

Posted by alexandra_k on February 10, 2020, at 2:00:32

In reply to Re: Insomnia-euphoria, posted by rjlockhart37 on February 9, 2020, at 22:40:53

Yes, sleep has a significant effect on mood.

People who are depressed / depressive tend to sleep more than 8 hours per day. Or spend significantly more time dozing.

People having a manic episode typically don't sleep (until they crash). Milder mania usually associated with less than 7 hours sleep per day.

Couple days without sleep and people start experiencing hallunications, maybe delusions.

I find personally that the amount of sleep I get / amount of dozing that I do has a significant effect on my physiology and often associated mood.

 

Re: Insomnia-euphoria

Posted by Lamdage22 on February 10, 2020, at 4:34:01

In reply to Insomnia-euphoria, posted by Jadde on February 9, 2020, at 16:44:59

I think a response might be waiting for you! Have you ever been manic?

For me the insomnia kicked in when the antidepressant effect kicked in. Don't go days without sleep though, it may make you crazy. Maybe you need an antidote!

 

Re: Insomnia-euphoria

Posted by undopaminergic on February 10, 2020, at 5:38:23

In reply to Insomnia-euphoria, posted by Jadde on February 9, 2020, at 16:44:59

> Last night I stayed up all night.
>

What a coincidence... Me too!

> Not by choice, and this is very rare for me.

Quite rare for me too.

> When I got up I felt wide awake which was of course strange. Around 11am I suddenly felt high, a euphoric feeling that lasted all day.
>

I'm not euphoric, but I had a great talk therapy session!

I think that in bipolars, sleep deprivation can trigger a switch to (hypo)mania. At this point, it's just my hypothesis, but it seems intuitive.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Insomnia-euphoria

Posted by undopaminergic on February 10, 2020, at 5:42:54

In reply to Re: Insomnia-euphoria, posted by rjlockhart37 on February 9, 2020, at 22:40:53

> oh yes, it has happened to me, i know what it feels like, you can't sleep, and you dread not being able to function the next day, then when you force yourself to get up your dopamine levels are elevated, it's a sleep deprivation symptom meaning hte body is using additional resources to keep the going. It's almost like a buzz or a slight high, but eventually you have to get sleep, because it will wear you down and down, until you can't function. I've gone sleep deprivation for about 2 days on a buzz, but anything after that you wear down.
>
> Your neurotransmitters are elevated in response to keeping goign without sleep, yes its almost liike a high or buzz. But eventually you have to get long rest. If your up for days, you start to feel like your goinging into madness, and lose track of things. But first few days are like a buzz.
>

With stimulants, I've been up for a number of days. 4, 5, maybe more.

I discovered that there is a training effect -- you get better at staying awake -- but until you learn to handle it, you should beware of psychosis. I developed paranoia and eventually auditory hallucinations, and I ended up in hospital.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Insomnia-euphoria rjlockhart37

Posted by Jadde on February 10, 2020, at 21:38:55

In reply to Re: Insomnia-euphoria, posted by rjlockhart37 on February 9, 2020, at 22:40:53

> oh yes, it has happened to me, i know what it feels like, you can't sleep, and you dread not being able to function the next day, then when you force yourself to get up your dopamine levels are elevated, it's a sleep deprivation symptom meaning hte body is using additional resources to keep the going. It's almost like a buzz or a slight high, but eventually you have to get sleep, because it will wear you down and down, until you can't function. I've gone sleep deprivation for about 2 days on a buzz, but anything after that you wear down.
>
> Your neurotransmitters are elevated in response to keeping goign without sleep, yes its almost liike a high or buzz. But eventually you have to get long rest. If your up for days, you start to feel like your goinging into madness, and lose track of things. But first few days are like a buzz.

Yes! I was just laying there all night wondering how the heck I was going to function the next day. Not only did I function, I felt awesome and cleaned my apt. I take what I can get these days.

Jade

 

Re: Insomnia-euphoria

Posted by Jadde on February 10, 2020, at 22:02:53

In reply to Re: Insomnia-euphoria, posted by alexandra_k on February 10, 2020, at 2:00:32

> Yes, sleep has a significant effect on mood.
>

I guess I knew that but I had no idea it could cause euphoria the following day.

> People who are depressed / depressive tend to sleep more than 8 hours per day. Or spend significantly more time dozing.
>

Ive been sleeping 11 hours a night.

> People having a manic episode typically don't sleep (until they crash). Milder mania usually associated with less than 7 hours sleep per day.

I finally got 6 hours of sleep last night. I took 5mg melatonin and 5mg of olanzapine and, and then another 5. That did the trick.
>
> Couple days without sleep and people start experiencing hallunications, maybe delusions.

Sometime after I fell asleep, I woke to a very realistic hallucination. It was a family member standing over me. It lasted about 3 seconds and scared the daylights out of me. Thats when I added the second olanzapine. I pay attention when psychosis/ mania/ delusions are a possibility.
>
> I find personally that the amount of sleep I get / amount of dozing that I do has a significant effect on my physiology and often associated mood.
>

Yes, I sure know that now!

Jade

 

Re: Insomnia-euphoria

Posted by Jadde on February 10, 2020, at 22:10:03

In reply to Re: Insomnia-euphoria, posted by Lamdage22 on February 10, 2020, at 4:34:01

> I think a response might be waiting for you! Have you ever been manic?
>

You think? :)

Yes, Ive been manic.

> For me the insomnia kicked in when the antidepressant effect kicked in. Don't go days without sleep though, it may make you crazy. Maybe you need an antidote!

Wow youre getting my hopes up. I think the olanzapine will keep things from getting out of control. Im too much of a sissy to go more that one night of sleep deprivation, as pleasant as yesterday was.

Jade

 

Re: Insomnia-euphoria undopaminergic

Posted by Jadde on February 10, 2020, at 22:18:09

In reply to Re: Insomnia-euphoria, posted by undopaminergic on February 10, 2020, at 5:38:23

> > Last night I stayed up all night.
> >
>
> What a coincidence... Me too!

Wow, glad your following day was enjoyable also!

>
> > Not by choice, and this is very rare for me.
>
> Quite rare for me too.
>
> > When I got up I felt wide awake which was of course strange. Around 11am I suddenly felt high, a euphoric feeling that lasted all day.
> >
>
> I'm not euphoric, but I had a great talk therapy session!
>
> I think that in bipolars, sleep deprivation can trigger a switch to (hypo)mania. At this point, it's just my hypothesis, but it seems intuitive.

Sounds right. Ive been manic/delusional on both Parnate and Nardil, Im sure sleep deprivation wasnt helping.
>
> -undopaminergic

Jade


 

Re: Insomnia-euphoria

Posted by alexandra_k on February 10, 2020, at 22:23:53

In reply to Re: Insomnia-euphoria undopaminergic, posted by Jadde on February 10, 2020, at 22:18:09

Glad to hear you got some sleep and didn't go down the manic - psychosis route.

Not sleeping for a couple days is a fairly usual etiology for mania going out of control (psychosis and then crash).

It will be interesting to see if you can learn to manage your mood better by perhaps sleeping less if you start to feel too lethargic / depressed? Not for days on end... But here and there over the course of the week...

 

Re: Insomnia-euphoria alexandra_k

Posted by Jadde on February 11, 2020, at 8:26:20

In reply to Re: Insomnia-euphoria, posted by alexandra_k on February 10, 2020, at 22:23:53

> Glad to hear you got some sleep and didn't go down the manic - psychosis route.
>
> Not sleeping for a couple days is a fairly usual etiology for mania going out of control (psychosis and then crash).
>
> It will be interesting to see if you can learn to manage your mood better by perhaps sleeping less if you start to feel too lethargic / depressed? Not for days on end... But here and there over the course of the week...

Question, are you saying that if I were to cut down my sleep time to say 8 hours, that by itself could cause a boost in my mood? I am so tired when I wake up.

Jade

 

Re: Insomnia-euphoria

Posted by Lamdage22 on February 11, 2020, at 8:47:58

In reply to Re: Insomnia-euphoria alexandra_k, posted by Jadde on February 11, 2020, at 8:26:20

I know a guy, they forced him to do sleep deprivation. Insomniac for life. I wouldt mess with it.

 

Re: Insomnia-euphoria

Posted by alexandra_k on February 13, 2020, at 1:55:19

In reply to Re: Insomnia-euphoria alexandra_k, posted by Jadde on February 11, 2020, at 8:26:20

> Question, are you saying that if I were to cut down my sleep time to say 8 hours, that by itself could cause a boost in my mood? I am so tired when I wake up.

I don't know.

In my own experience if I don't have a schedule externally imposed on me then I tend to sleep rather a lot of hours (maybe up to 12 or 13 even) and I feel tired when I wake up.

Of course I'd rather be dead, but there we go. Just spending so much of my life 'on hold' while other people collect up all the money and collect up more and more and more and more money while I wait around for them to do their job...

But that's me...

When I have a schedule then I can only sleep around 7-8 hours per night. Maybe get a re-set of 12 hours once a week or maybe once every second week. I find it hard to get used to the schedule to start with. Feel tired.. Feel a bit buggy eyed.. Feel a bit more physiologically fight / flight. Feel better for it. Eventually. Settle into things. End up starting to wake up 20 minutes before the alarm and then 5 minutes before the alarm.

But then of course so much more is going on with my life / in my life when I have that kind of a schedule. Usually I'm enrolled in classes which feel to me like I'm making some kind of progress on towards some end towards some better future.

So it's a bit hard to know how much is down to the different sleep patterns and how much is to do with the reasoning as to why the sleep patterns are different.

Of course I could (in theory) set my alarm for the same time each day and try and impose that schedule on myself. But I don't tend to. So.

I haven't heard anyone developing permanent problems by messing with differnet amounts of sleep...

But that's not to say that people haven't...

But I think quite a few people have at least a few experiences of weeks or perhaps months where they went a bit sleep deprived (I mean a bit -- like 6 or 7 hours per night)... Or a night without sleep. Playing computer games or at a slumber party or whatever. Painting. Whatever.

 

Re: Insomnia-euphoria

Posted by alexandra_k on February 13, 2020, at 2:01:45

In reply to Re: Insomnia-euphoria, posted by alexandra_k on February 13, 2020, at 1:55:19

Other time was with exercise.

I don't mean a gentle little walk. I mean really hard exercise. Working really hard for a spin class or heavy squat routine.

After that kind of exercise running a bit of a temperature as the body repairs the microdamage.

Sleep a bit less. Sleep a bit lighter. Waking up earlier in the morning (5 or 6am) and ready to get up and move.

There, I guess the exercise affected my sleep affected my mood. Without a change in circumstances otherwise. Though, I suppose I did feel good about feeling like I was making good progress on my fitness. But I think that was more physiological about exercise -> sleep -> mood. And I think it was sleep -> mood more than anything else.

 

Re: Insomnia-euphoria

Posted by alexandra_k on February 17, 2020, at 7:59:29

In reply to Re: Insomnia-euphoria, posted by alexandra_k on February 13, 2020, at 2:01:45

Thanks for posting about this. I have been feeling very depressed, lately, like my life is on hold waiting for people who have no motivation or desire to do the things they are required to do for me to progress.. Just idling my life away in the swamp as I have been for the last, oh, I think maybe 7 years since my return to this country. In order to teach me a little lesson in 'be grateful for what you get' or 'we know what's best for you' or 'sometimes we don't get what we want' (a decision made by people who do in fact seem to have gotten most of the things that they wanted in life. namely, money and the power to do whatever they like (and use it for ill) and get away with it!)

Anyhoo... After posting this I got more seriously into exercise, again.

I got a road bicycle maybe 7 weeks ago. Has taken some time for me to get a bit used to the position so my back doesn't cramp up and my bum doesn't hurt too much from the saddle. A bit to learn to work a bit more as an endurance athlete (and spin those legs on a higher gear and take my time working up those hills) instead of more of a power athlete who stomps stomps stomps until she runs out of steam and has to get off and walk the rest of the hill.

Anyway... Things came together for me and I'm starting to feel the positive physiological effects from the exercise. Then it becomes addictive and I am awake at 5 or 6 am wanting to get up and get moving. Then I am wanting to be moving all the time. Get back from cycling. Feel like going for a walk. Get back from a walk. Feel like kicking a gym ball around for a while playing wall-ball mma fighting champion at the park... Just... Keep moving.

I wouldn't say my situation has changed at all. Maybe I'm feeling more... Anxious. Concerned. Rather than hopeless. Despair. I think that is the physiological arousal difference from the exercise. And I'm sleeping less hours for sure. Irregular, though. Naps, here and there.

Anyway... That's what I reckon about exercise and sleep and mood for me. NOt sure how it is for other people.

 

Re: Insomnia-euphoria alexandra_k

Posted by Jadde on February 23, 2020, at 8:53:10

In reply to Re: Insomnia-euphoria, posted by alexandra_k on February 13, 2020, at 2:01:45

> Other time was with exercise.
>
> I don't mean a gentle little walk. I mean really hard exercise. Working really hard for a spin class or heavy squat routine.
>
> After that kind of exercise running a bit of a temperature as the body repairs the microdamage.
>
> Sleep a bit less. Sleep a bit lighter. Waking up earlier in the morning (5 or 6am) and ready to get up and move.
>
> There, I guess the exercise affected my sleep affected my mood. Without a change in circumstances otherwise. Though, I suppose I did feel good about feeling like I was making good progress on my fitness. But I think that was more physiological about exercise -> sleep -> mood. And I think it was sleep -> mood more than anything else.

I dont mean a gentle little walk

You are funny. I know what you are saying is true. As for exercise, ions ago I loved going to the gym. With Nardil weight gain came arthritis in my right hip so some things are just out. I also used to run, which I miss. On the plus side, I walk my dog daily and I bought a mat and weights. Oh who am I kidding, I need to get my *rs* to the gym.

As for sleep, its all over the place. Was sleeping the 12-13 hours you mention, now cant sleep for anything. Im lucky to get a straight 2 hours.

Exercise, sleep, mood. Im a bit more motivated!

Thanks :)

Jade

 

Re: Insomnia-euphoria

Posted by alexandra_k on March 19, 2020, at 23:10:40

In reply to Re: Insomnia-euphoria alexandra_k, posted by Jadde on February 23, 2020, at 8:53:10

Ouch about the arthritis.

I used to have a hip that hurt to move.

I managed to fix it.

It took some time.

Lying in bed on my back I would grab my feet / ankles / shins and move my legs about in squatting kinds of motions, internal rotation, external rotation.

There were parts of the range of motion that felt 'grabby' or 'gritty' or 'stiff'. They can be 'flossed' by very gentle working through that range of motion. I think of it like ironing the creases out. YOu actually are doing that as the motion gets the synovial fluid moving around helping to flush all the crap out of the joint.

There were parts of the range of motion that felt 'stabby'. You can use your hands on your ankles / feet to help actively pull the head of the femur inside the socket. Like... If you imagine hanging from a pull-up bar you can hand with your joint nearly dislocated... Or you can actively 'pack' the joint by using the muscles around your shoulder to help hold it together. It's really hard work hanging from a bar... We don't usually think we need to use the rotator cuff of the femur (gluteal stabilisers) to hold the femur properly into the pelvis for pain free range of motion... But we do.

That's my theory, anyway.

You can learn to hold your femur differently for pain free range of motion.

Not always... Not if the degeration is too bad, likely...

But I used to have this awful clicky hip with stabby pains sometimes and I'd get a couple strides of a run and it would sort of collapse on me.

And I managed to iron it all out with the flossing and learning to hold it so I could squat pain free. Lying on my back. Then standing up using a rail for support. Then no support. Then loaded barbell...

Maybe for you, too. Maybe.

Maybe.


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