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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 33. Go back in thread:
Posted by billy pilgrim on April 3, 2009, at 23:12:37
In reply to Re: Nardil Question, posted by Zana on April 1, 2009, at 12:11:30
> I am really glad you are getting such good information. I know what it's like to be on your "last chance" med regime. That in itself is probably causing you anxiety. I hope the Nardil works, sounds like your experiencing benefits and remember, there is always a rough patch starting a new med and I always freak out at the new effects and side effects. Maybe you need to give yourself some time to get through the initial side effects and see how you feel two or three weeks down the road.
> Good luck. Let us know how it goes.
> Zana:)
Thank you! Your a very nice person.
Im really glad im getting such great information and support aswell.I am constantly amazed at the knowledge and support u guys give each other here on this forum and after being a long time lurker here i was very appreciative to recieve such a warm welcome and more information than i could poke a stick at!
Yeah im putting all my hope into nardil.
After trying Effexor, lexapro, imipramine, aurorix, mianserin, zyban, zyprexa and parnate, im really at my wits end.As far as benefits are concerned im getting a very light improvement in mood..although it comes and goes, but is just noticible and mild euphoria after each dose.
I take this as a freebee i can enjoy until it kicks in!
I fully intend to let u guys know how it pans out.
Thanks again.
-Billy
Posted by billy pilgrim on April 3, 2009, at 23:22:03
In reply to Re: Nardil Question » Neurogen, posted by myco on April 2, 2009, at 15:18:20
> I agree. After months the med becomes part of your subconscious really...no physical feelings anymore all in your behaviour after months.
>
>
> > It takes a long time for Nardil to hit full effect and the side effects stack on, then virtually all have disappeared after about 6 months.That sounds great i cant wait for this.
One side effect i wish would dissipate is feeling lethargic.Myco do u think what you do with ur nardil eg. take it on an empty stomach, drink lots of water and avoid anything that creates more stomach acid for 45mins would also help with the aussie link nardil thats kept in the fridge?
Also do u guys take it 2 or 3 times a day?
I was feeling ok in the morning, then id feel really agitated, spaced out and drained from about 2pm onwards. My doc then suggested taking it 3 times a day and it seems to be helping with that problem, albiet taking it 3 times a day can be a tad anoying!
Posted by desolationrower on April 4, 2009, at 0:33:01
In reply to Re: Nardil Question, posted by billy pilgrim on April 3, 2009, at 23:22:03
i think trazadone or other alpha1 antagonist is a even more helpful with maois
-d/r
Posted by myco on April 4, 2009, at 11:41:56
In reply to Re: Nardil Question, posted by desolationrower on April 4, 2009, at 0:33:01
stuff gave me SE syndrome on nardil..50mg tinnitus and a bunch of warm cuddly things.
> i think trazadone or other alpha1 antagonist is a even more helpful with maois
>
> -d/r
Posted by myco on April 4, 2009, at 11:43:10
In reply to Re: Nardil Question, posted by billy pilgrim on April 3, 2009, at 22:49:00
Lol so nardil is helping you with the ladies is it billy? lol ace
>
> > ***to fast here man. Would have suggested more time at 60 but thats ok. Slow it down a lil though. Hang at 75 and watch. You may have passed your ideal dose (perhaps 60 - many like 60)...I would have said 4-6 weeks at 60 personally. But I tend to move slower and pay close attention to how I feel, very close attention.
>
> Thanks for the advice man! I wish i had have stayed at 60 for a while, i just wanted it to kick in asap, i realise now the only thing thats going to be kicking in asap is additional side effects. I know what u mean about moving slow and paying attention to mood i did that with my first few ad's, after that i started getting sooo impatient!
>
> > ***My opinion here, as this is different for everyone, is your answer is in how benzo's make you feel in general anyway. Benzo's depress me the next day in general ok...so do they prevent nardil from working correctly?....for a depression patient yes...depressive symptoms are common next day with benzo use for sleep so....if nardil is for depression you are technically (albeit prob not to much) inhibiting some of the AD effect. Also, yes Ive noticed my energy level on nardil is way higher, if I sleep without temazepam (benzo) use, the next day. Benzo's work on GABA and nardil does to some extent...but from the studies Ive read they do this in a different way (can give u those studies if you like)...I had the theory once that benzo's would create GABA tolerance with nardil...this was suggested to be false from what ive read and my experiences...temazepam hits me just as hard as it always did if (heres the trick) I dont use it too often...this minimizes any risk also of "dampening" mood on nardil. Add another type of hypnotic and use benzo's a few times a week...if you can. Nardil insomnia is actually, I know sounds weird but, enjoyable to some extent...created need for lil sleep and pumped me way full of energy...of course lack of sleep will catch up with you later...took about 2 months to see issues in my body from lack of sleep on nardil. get a good suite of sleep meds for it.
>
> Wow thank you for such great information, your conclusion seems totally logical and the best part most of it's based on experience. I will try to find an alternate benzo/z drug to use with mirtazapine for when the insomnia get's really nasty.
> I've certainly noticed i need a lower dose of benzo's now as the Nardil and Mirtazapine seem to enhance them somewhat.
> Id love those study's. Reading anything about meds and their effects always intrigues me.
> I know what u mean about enjoying maoi insomnia! I used to love going out on parnate, staying out till on the clubs shut and repeating the process again on saturday night.
>
> > ***again I dont think its "stopped working"...you are simply (my guess) hindering its AD effects...benzo's can be depressive the next day - this is actually quite commone...dr's are well aware of this and valium is notorious for this. Not as much xanax. Klon is also another one implicated in bad depressive issues the compound over time after prolonged use and may mask effects of your AD.
>
> Yeah that really makes me wonder how many people could be possibly feeling much better if they wernet taking their "xannys" and their "k-pins" everyday with ad's.
> I know what you mean about valium, whenever i took that for sleep on parnate id actually burst into tears the next day.
>
> >Dizzy with dilated pupils....has to do with the stimulant properties (the energy levels) the parnate may give you...again benzos will slow you down in this regard...chill you out..I..cut anxiety (related to NE or stimulation)...this is how they work really...calm the nerves. NE is another issues in anxiety apart from GABA. Parnate effects NE pretty good I believe. I dont take it though...nardil is my first maoi.
>
> So to much NE and not enough GABA regulation = Do they think im an idiot? Does she think im stupid? what if they notice my hands shaking? ohh my palms are so sweaty...
> Interesting i've always wondered whether the dilated pupils were somewhat due to SA DA or NE.
>
> I really liked parnate but, it was so unbalanced. It was almost like id get this big stimulant hit when i dosed, 4 hrs later its gone and im feeling depressed, then another high on the next dose and bang im down again. It just wasn't a consant ad effect. Oh and the insomnia...
> I really hope Nardil works out, cause from what ive read so far, it sounds balanced!
> Id take a constant ad effect over a short amphetamine type high anyday...as much as the dopamine craving part of me is protesting.
> Thank you for the info man.
>
> ***Benzos will slow heartbeat a lil I believe...this is another way they address anxiety - chilling you out...reduce heart rate or bp I think is also lowered. These are chill out meds...heart rate, bp, sweats etc...are all issues with anxiety that benzos are basically geared towards relaxing. So if u have a med like a maoi that increases stimulation (may play on heart rate, energy, bp - to get you going) then taking a benzo is somewhat counterproductive if you need that stimulation from nardil/parnate to feel good. Again I suggest a sleep med alteration...combination benzo and something else.
>
> Yeah that stimulation im sure is Nardil saying "hey im here and im battering your receptors until they goddam respond" I really dont want something stopping or slowing that battering so i'll certainly alter my sleep meds to find something thats not so intent on stopping that battering.
>
> ***no my friend...this is common - but its that its "not working as well"----have no fear it wont kill nardil for you in the long run. ditch the benzo and you will return to the stimulation u once had - those feeling you liked from it. The benzo just dampens your mood - anti-AD effect like I said above.
>
> Cheers that makes me feel better :)
>
> > So....combo sleep meds - benzo/AP or something mabye...something else....trazodone, seroquel, a tca....something plus a benzo for those times of hardcore anxiety/insomnia....just dont overuse the benzo and you will feel nardil working "better" for u - more energy and less mood dampening. This is all familiar to me...but we are all different so just use this as an "investigational" point ok...you may react different but I think its safe to say this is the issue.
> >
> > myco
>
> Thanks for all ur help man. I'll take all this in while im pondering sleep meds and a benzo for occasional use.
> Hopefully i'll knock this major depression/social anxiety out of the ball park!
> Greatly appreciated :)
>
>
Posted by myco on April 4, 2009, at 11:55:03
In reply to Re: Nardil Question, posted by billy pilgrim on April 3, 2009, at 23:22:03
> That sounds great i cant wait for this.
> One side effect i wish would dissipate is feeling lethargic.that should go for abit but will return later if you get any DA "downregulation". ive lost that rockin energy i used to get. you can add a stim here also...but dr's are usually not friendly with the idea of stim + maoi but you could bring it up...the lethargy and see about recommendations. he may say exercise which will help to some degree. coffee also (for me) in a way...DA sups (careful with dosing)
> Myco do u think what you do with ur nardil eg. take it on an empty stomach, drink lots of water and avoid anything that creates more stomach acid for 45mins would also help with the aussie link nardil thats kept in the fridge?
Phenelzine "likes" alkaline conditions...your nardil has same active ingredient as mine...unless it states otherwise in your monograph or literature...you can take with water on empty stomach and no food. perhaps a b6 or folic acid to aid. phenelzine is phenelzine but not sure about inert ingredients though...buffers and things in the pill will adjust pH for stability. i dont think it matters much though...i notice no difference in nardil long run from that but it hits faster and harder with an empty stomach and water for me....it creeps up slow with food but still works.
ah back to a question i had ages ago...i dont understand why you aussies keep it in fridge? is it because the climate you live in provides a bad opportunity for it to lose efficacy if you leave it out on the table? cant find any reason as to why my canadian nardil or your aussie nardil should be in the fridge...my monograph says 15-30C and yours is what 2-8C i think. weird....inert ingredients are not that diff. big big favour if you could find out the real reason for this :o) perty pwease lol
I do 3 times a day. that was my regimen when i started and i havent changed it yet (30mg 8-9am area; 30mg 2-3pm area; 15mg 8pm area). That is recommended for beginners...the spacing...to minimize side from a heavy dosing. also some will take before 3pm to help prevent sleep issues.
The 2pm thing might be nardil lethargy issue that sets in in the afternoon for many people. just lay down and chill for an hour or so and it usually passes leaving you pumped in the evening...enough energy for billy to go out 'birding' at night huh billy? lol
3 times is a tad annoying but if youve been on for many months it doesnt matter what time...if you like take it all in the morning in one handful...well i shouldnt recommend that in case you react poorly to it but people do that. once mao has been inhibited, body used to nardil for months, timing means nothing really. your brain is well adapted.
--------------
> Also do u guys take it 2 or 3 times a day?
> I was feeling ok in the morning, then id feel really agitated, spaced out and drained from about 2pm onwards. My doc then suggested taking it 3 times a day and it seems to be helping with that problem, albiet taking it 3 times a day can be a tad anoying!
>
Posted by metric on April 4, 2009, at 19:07:54
In reply to Re: Nardil Question » billy pilgrim, posted by myco on April 1, 2009, at 10:05:49
> Hi,
>
> > "I started Nardil at 45mgs for 8 days, 60mgs for 3 days, then ramped it up to 75mgs which i have been on for about 13 days."
>
> ***to fast here man. Would have suggested more time at 60 but thats ok. Slow it down a lil though. Hang at 75 and watch. You may have passed your ideal dose (perhaps 60 - many like 60)...I would have said 4-6 weeks at 60 personally. But I tend to move slower and pay close attention to how I feel, very close attention.
>
> > "My question is can benzo's cause Nardil to loose its effeciacy?"
>
> ***My opinion here, as this is different for everyone, is your answer is in how benzo's make you feel in general anyway. Benzo's depress me the next day in general ok...so do they prevent nardil from working correctly?....for a depression patient yes...depressive symptoms are common next day with benzo use for sleep so....if nardil is for depression you are technically (albeit prob not to much) inhibiting some of the AD effect. Also, yes Ive noticed my energy level on nardil is way higher, if I sleep without temazepam (benzo) use, the next day. Benzo's work on GABA and nardil does to some extent...but from the studies Ive read they do this in a different way (can give u those studies if you like)...I had the theory once that benzo's would create GABA tolerance with nardil...this was suggested to be false from what ive read and my experiences...temazepam hits me just as hard as it always did if (heres the trick) I dont use it too often...this minimizes any risk also of "dampening" mood on nardil. Add another type of hypnotic and use benzo's a few times a week...if you can. Nardil insomnia is actually, I know sounds weird but, enjoyable to some extent...created need for lil sleep and pumped me way full of energy...of course lack of sleep will catch up with you later...took about 2 months to see issues in my body from lack of sleep on nardil. get a good suite of sleep meds for it.
>
> > The reason im worried is because while i was on parnate, taking valium or xanax etc. for sleep would cause parnate to stop working the next day.
>
> ***again I dont think its "stopped working"...you are simply (my guess) hindering its AD effects...benzo's can be depressive the next day - this is actually quite commone...dr's are well aware of this and valium is notorious for this. Not as much xanax. Klon is also another one implicated in bad depressive issues the compound over time after prolonged use and may mask effects of your AD.
>
> > Another thing that made me come to that conclusion was parnate would make me a little dizzy and give me dilated pupils, this would also dissapear when taking a benzo for sleep as would any positve feelings.
>
> ***Dizzy with dilated pupils....has to do with the stimulant properties (the energy levels) the parnate may give you...again benzos will slow you down in this regard...chill you out....cut anxiety (related to NE or stimulation)...this is how they work really...calm the nerves. NE is another issues in anxiety apart from GABA. Parnate effects NE pretty good I believe. I dont take it though...nardil is my first maoi.
>
> > I experienced insomnia for the first time on nardil the other night and i took some ambien to try and counteract this.
> > I also had a slightly increased heartbeatfrom the nardil.
>
> ***Benzos will slow heartbeat a lil I believe...this is another way they address anxiety - chilling you out...reduce heart rate or bp I think is also lowered. These are chill out meds...heart rate, bp, sweats etc...are all issues with anxiety that benzos are basically geared towards relaxing. So if u have a med like a maoi that increases stimulation (may play on heart rate, energy, bp - to get you going) then taking a benzo is somewhat counterproductive if you need that stimulation from nardil/parnate to feel good. Again I suggest a sleep med alteration...combination benzo and something else.
>
>
> > 40 mins after ingesting the ambien my heartrate returned to normal, i didnt feel dizzy and my pupils went from dilated to constricted.
>
> ***see above - this is typical of benzos....these symptoms are typical of panic/anxiety which a benzo reduces.
>
> > Sorry for such a long post but im just wondering is it possible im in a small minority where benzos can cause an maoi to not work as well?
>
> ***no my friend...this is common - but its that its "not working as well"----have no fear it wont kill nardil for you in the long run. ditch the benzo and you will return to the stimulation u once had - those feeling you liked from it. The benzo just dampens your mood - anti-AD effect like I said above.
>
>
> So....combo sleep meds - benzo/AP or something mabye...something else....trazodone, seroquel, a tca....something plus a benzo for those times of hardcore anxiety/insomnia....just dont overuse the benzo and you will feel nardil working "better" for u - more energy and less mood dampening. This is all familiar to me...but we are all different so just use this as an "investigational" point ok...you may react different but I think its safe to say this is the issue.
>
> myco
>
>Benzodiazepines have shown results comparable to traditional antidepressants in clinical trials. For example:
Laakman, G, M Faltermaier-Temizel, S Bossert-Zaudig, T Baghai, and G Lorkowski. "Treatment of depressive outpatients with lorazepam, alprazolam, amytriptyline and placebo." Psychopharmacology 120, no. 1 (July 1995): 109-15.
That of course does not negate your personal experience with benzos. Be careful, however, not to confuse the issue of CNS depression with that of depressed mood.
Posted by myco on April 4, 2009, at 19:15:56
In reply to Re: Nardil Question, posted by metric on April 4, 2009, at 19:07:54
> Benzodiazepines have shown results comparable to traditional antidepressants in clinical trials. For example:
>
> Laakman, G, M Faltermaier-Temizel, S Bossert-Zaudig, T Baghai, and G Lorkowski. "Treatment of depressive outpatients with lorazepam, alprazolam, amytriptyline and placebo." Psychopharmacology 120, no. 1 (July 1995): 109-15.
>
> That of course does not negate your personal experience with benzos. Be careful, however, not to confuse the issue of CNS depression with that of depressed mood.
>They do both, do they not? Very common to have a crappy mood the next day after using benzos. I'm sure many on here would attest to that. Too high a dose or just an unagreeable benzo for an individual will produce CNS depression to an over-extent also will it not? Ive tried lorazepam...it's one of the ones that produces less of a mood effect, for me, but still I have heard of mood depression from it like the others.
Posted by desolationrower on April 4, 2009, at 22:40:08
In reply to Re: Nardil Question » metric, posted by myco on April 4, 2009, at 19:15:56
myco, i'm a bit skeptical of the trazadone causing serotonin syndrome.
-d/r
Posted by myco on April 5, 2009, at 1:10:04
In reply to Re: Nardil Question, posted by desolationrower on April 4, 2009, at 22:40:08
No other way to explain aggitation, sweats, racing thoughts and muscle tension that wasnt there before nor while on 25mg...hit while on 50mg...panic attack? i dunno...felt weird and felt like a result of the traz...came on with its effects. generic traz.
> myco, i'm a bit skeptical of the trazadone causing serotonin syndrome.
>
> -d/r
Posted by desolationrower on April 5, 2009, at 4:14:20
In reply to Re: Nardil Question » desolationrower, posted by myco on April 5, 2009, at 1:10:04
i bet it was the mcpp, and you ahve the one metabolic thingie where you get like 5x as much as most people
-d/r
Posted by billy pilgrim on April 15, 2009, at 4:17:15
In reply to Re: Nardil Question, posted by desolationrower on April 4, 2009, at 0:33:01
> i think trazadone or other alpha1 antagonist is a even more helpful with maois
>
> -d/r
Id love to try Trazodone, but we dont have it here in aus :(Do you have any other suggestions mate?
-Billy
Posted by billy pilgrim on April 15, 2009, at 5:12:49
In reply to Re: Nardil Question » billy pilgrim, posted by myco on April 4, 2009, at 11:55:03
Yes bro it is helping a bit with the ladies ;)
> that should go for abit but will return later if you get any DA "downregulation". ive lost that rockin energy i used to get. you can add a stim here also...but dr's are usually not friendly with the idea of stim + maoi but you could bring it up...the lethargy and see about recommendations. he may say exercise which will help to some degree. coffee also (for me) in a way...DA sups (careful with dosing)I asked about this and on his advice tried Doxepin.
Trying to conquer sleep and lethargy in one hit, i gave it a shot.
It did the opposite to sedate me, it totally stimulated the shite out of me.The next day i felt like a bit of the fog had lifted and felt a teeny bit of remission, but the feeling only lasted a few hours.
It didnt give me the same feeling the next morning, so i stopped taking it(probably silly cause i didnt really give it any time at all to feel the real effects)
But i thought if im going to have a stimulating tca mabye i should try nortriptyline with nardil as people seem to like this tca much more.As a side note when i tried imipramine monotherapy i gave it 8 weeks and it made me very agitated and much more depressed.
Im hoping i will experience this energy from nardil, i mean the insomnia is there but no real drive to go out, make beats etc..
So im internal turnoil atm with nardil not kicking in... tcas.. DA agonists..wish i knew what would work well in augmentation!
>
> > Myco do u think what you do with ur nardil eg. take it on an empty stomach, drink lots of water and avoid anything that creates more stomach acid for 45mins would also help with the aussie link nardil thats kept in the fridge?
>
> Phenelzine "likes" alkaline conditions...your nardil has same active ingredient as mine...unless it states otherwise in your monograph or literature...you can take with water on empty stomach and no food. perhaps a b6 or folic acid to aid. phenelzine is phenelzine but not sure about inert ingredients though...buffers and things in the pill will adjust pH for stability. i dont think it matters much though...i notice no difference in nardil long run from that but it hits faster and harder with an empty stomach and water for me....it creeps up slow with food but still works.Thanks for that :) I notice that the nardil
euphoria im getting(but is so weak now it just feels like a weak anti depressant response that only lasts 1-2 hours and then im down in the dumps again) kicks in quicker when i do this!
> ah back to a question i had ages ago...i dont understand why you aussies keep it in fridge? is it because the climate you live in provides a bad opportunity for it to lose efficacy if you leave it out on the table? cant find any reason as to why my canadian nardil or your aussie nardil should be in the fridge...my monograph says 15-30C and yours is what 2-8C i think. weird....inert ingredients are not that diff. big big favour if you could find out the real reason for this :o) perty pwease lol
>
I'll find get that precise answer for you as soon as i see my doc, seeing as u asked so nicley! ;)> I do 3 times a day. that was my regimen when i started and i havent changed it yet (30mg 8-9am area; 30mg 2-3pm area; 15mg 8pm area). That is recommended for beginners...the spacing...to minimize side from a heavy dosing. also some will take before 3pm to help prevent sleep issues.
>
When i started on 45mg i was 3 times a day, i then went to 2 times a day for 75mg and then back to 3 times to see how that would feel.For some reason 2 times just seems to feel a bit better and provide random benifiets (like feeling a bit talkative all of a sudden) so im going to switch back to 2 times and hope i get theese random benefits again :\
> The 2pm thing might be nardil lethargy issue that sets in in the afternoon for many people. just lay down and chill for an hour or so and it usually passes leaving you pumped in the evening...enough energy for billy to go out 'birding' at night huh billy? lol
>
LOL! Thats exactly what im hoping for man!> 3 times is a tad annoying but if youve been on for many months it doesnt matter what time...if you like take it all in the morning in one handful...well i shouldnt recommend that in case you react poorly to it but people do that. once mao has been inhibited, body used to nardil for months, timing means nothing really. your brain is well adapted.
>
Cool im hoping 2 times a day will be just as good as 3 while my brain is adapting.
Just wish it would hurry up and kick in!
-Billy
Posted by billy pilgrim on April 15, 2009, at 5:32:26
In reply to Re: Nardil Question » myco, posted by billy pilgrim on April 15, 2009, at 5:12:49
Hey guys sorry it took so long to reply.
Depression being the pain in the butt that it is made it take ages for me to get the motivation to put my fingers on the keyboard!
I got a bit impatient and very down and in a moment of stupidity i increased the dose to 90mg.
So currently ive been at 45mg for 8 days, 60mg for 2 days, 75mg for 14 days and 90mg for 11 days.
I wish i could say im responding.
Do u guys think it's been long enough that i should at least have a semi stable response by now and not just theese little anti depressant like feelings that only last for about 2 hours after a dose?Any ideas for augmentors?
-Billy
Posted by desolationrower on April 15, 2009, at 13:17:35
In reply to Update on nardil experience, posted by billy pilgrim on April 15, 2009, at 5:32:26
could try clonidine or prazosin.
nortriptiline also does this slightly
-d/r
are you a dj
Posted by bri on April 20, 2009, at 19:03:14
In reply to Re: Update on nardil experience, posted by desolationrower on April 15, 2009, at 13:17:35
I am entering Week 2 of Nardil. After my first 6 days I went up to 30mg from 15mg. I'd been getting GREAT benefits from 15mg (for extreme social phobia and bipolar II depression), and figured 30mg would be perfect. I upped it, and got way anxious again, so now I've bumped it back down to 15mg after spending two days at 30mg.
This is Nardil Day 10, very early, I realize. First 6 days: amazing on 15mg. Days 7-8: back to full-on social phobia at 30mg. Now Days 9-10: Back to 15mg/day, and at the baseline social phobia I came into this with.
Has anyone had similar experience of doing great with the Nardil very early, and then itcomes back at you full force with horrible phobia and anxiety? I miss those first few days!
I'm hoping either, a- 30mg was too much for me and that at 15mg I'll start to see the amazing benefit I first got at 15mg; or b, at 30mg initially the side effects of heightened anxiety was only a temporary side effect and the result of going up too high too soon. I was amazed at how great it was at 15mg and am irrationally worried I took it full-throttle into poop-out mood by going too high. It's been 2 days back on 15mg and it's not as great as it was initially.
Any feedback would be wonderful.> could try clonidine or prazosin.
>
> nortriptiline also does this slightly
>
> -d/r
>
> are you a dj
Posted by desolationrower on April 24, 2009, at 2:47:58
In reply to Re: Update on nardil experience, posted by bri on April 20, 2009, at 19:03:14
you are probably getting a large benefit from the GABA effects, and the accute effects on monoamines are negative. hte first effect will taper a bit, but the second effect should reverse. give it some more time, it probably won't feel the same, but should start to work again.
-d/r
Posted by jedi on April 26, 2009, at 1:12:38
In reply to Re: Update on nardil experience, posted by bri on April 20, 2009, at 19:03:14
> I am entering Week 2 of Nardil. After my first 6 days I went up to 30mg from 15mg. I'd been getting GREAT benefits from 15mg (for extreme social phobia and bipolar II depression), and figured 30mg would be perfect. I upped it, and got way anxious again, so now I've bumped it back down to 15mg after spending two days at 30mg.
>
> This is Nardil Day 10, very early, I realize. First 6 days: amazing on 15mg. Days 7-8: back to full-on social phobia at 30mg. Now Days 9-10: Back to 15mg/day, and at the baseline social phobia I came into this with.
>
> Has anyone had similar experience of doing great with the Nardil very early, and then itcomes back at you full force with horrible phobia and anxiety? I miss those first few days!
>
> I'm hoping either, a- 30mg was too much for me and that at 15mg I'll start to see the amazing benefit I first got at 15mg; or b, at 30mg initially the side effects of heightened anxiety was only a temporary side effect and the result of going up too high too soon. I was amazed at how great it was at 15mg and am irrationally worried I took it full-throttle into poop-out mood by going too high. It's been 2 days back on 15mg and it's not as great as it was initially.Hi,
Everyone is different out there but I've never really heard of 15mg of Nardil being enough to induce MAO Inhibition. Like D/R mentioned, you are probably getting some relief from the GABA effect of the med. You probably have a placebo effect going also.To get MAO inhibition close to 90% you will probably need to be at 45mg or more for a period of several weeks. Nardil does not work immediately, but when it does work it is one of those meds that can really make a difference. Sometimes, when it first kicks in, there will be a period of hypomania that is generally short lived. Many people mistake this for the true antidepressant effect of the drug. It is not. I've seen several posters on this board that really craved that feeling and when it went away, thought the med had pooped out. Be careful of that. For the right person, Nardil can be a true miracle. It will often work where many other medications have failed.
Good Luck,
Jedi
Posted by bri on April 26, 2009, at 22:01:34
In reply to Re: Update on nardil experience, posted by desolationrower on April 24, 2009, at 2:47:58
Thank you both to Jedi and D/R for your wise advice. Very much appreciated.
> you are probably getting a large benefit from the GABA effects, and the accute effects on monoamines are negative. hte first effect will taper a bit, but the second effect should reverse. give it some more time, it probably won't feel the same, but should start to work again.
>
> -d/r
Posted by mike0388 on April 16, 2010, at 23:39:04
In reply to Re: Nardil Question, posted by metric on April 4, 2009, at 19:07:54
This is 1 hell of a post
*Claps Claps and Claps again*
Posted by Shyfelyne on April 19, 2010, at 14:53:20
In reply to Re: Update on nardil experience, posted by bri on April 26, 2009, at 22:01:34
I have been lurking in the post. Someone said they haven't heard of anyone having a real response from only 15mg. This really disheartens me. I had to go from 60 all the way back down to 15mg because my blood pressure was going so low that I was fainting/passing out & hitting my head on the floor frequently. I am desperate to feel better & like most others, this is a med of last resort. I guess I just hope there is someone out there that will say it is possible to get therapeutic effect out of 15mg because any higher that I go & I am unable to function. You guys seem really nice so any feedback would be appreciated.
Posted by Deneb on April 19, 2010, at 15:03:21
In reply to Re: Update on nardil experience, posted by Shyfelyne on April 19, 2010, at 14:53:20
Hello Shyfelyne!
Welcome to Psycho-Babble! Don't feel disheartened! People are different and just because most people don't respond to Nardil at 15 mg doesn't mean you won't. If your doctor prescribes it for you at 15 mg, she/he must think it is helping you. Were you able to get rid of the faining side effect at 15 mg?
Deneb
Posted by Shyfelyne on April 19, 2010, at 15:08:45
In reply to Re: Update on nardil experience » Shyfelyne, posted by Deneb on April 19, 2010, at 15:03:21
Yes. I only get slightly dizzy at the 15mg, but I swear I was feeling some mood lifting when I was at 60mg & even 30mg. I don't feel that anymore. Thank you so much for your words of encouragement though!
> Hello Shyfelyne!
>
> Welcome to Psycho-Babble! Don't feel disheartened! People are different and just because most people don't respond to Nardil at 15 mg doesn't mean you won't. If your doctor prescribes it for you at 15 mg, she/he must think it is helping you. Were you able to get rid of the faining side effect at 15 mg?
>
> Deneb
Posted by mike0388 on April 19, 2010, at 18:43:26
In reply to Re: Update on nardil experience » Deneb, posted by Shyfelyne on April 19, 2010, at 15:08:45
From my experience, I felt a little dizzy for the first 45 minutes (peak conceration) at 60mg, then it passes, and I feel fine. I never had really any side effects at 45mg, except constipation.
Posted by stargazer2 on April 21, 2010, at 10:38:55
In reply to Re: Update on nardil experience » Deneb, posted by Shyfelyne on April 19, 2010, at 15:08:45
I would stay on the 15 mg and if nothing improves, perhaps in a few weeks you might be able to increase the dose again. I have always had responses to lower doses but it might take longer. Personally I have much more severe side effects from higher doses than many here and I find rather than having to give a med up too early, it makes more sense to go up slowly.
I had a response to Nardil at 30. Can you wait awhile for your body to get acclimated to the 15 mg then try and increase again? 30 might be all you need.
Good luck.
This is the end of the thread.
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