Posted by metric on April 4, 2009, at 19:07:54
In reply to Re: Nardil Question » billy pilgrim, posted by myco on April 1, 2009, at 10:05:49
> Hi,
>
> > "I started Nardil at 45mgs for 8 days, 60mgs for 3 days, then ramped it up to 75mgs which i have been on for about 13 days."
>
> ***to fast here man. Would have suggested more time at 60 but thats ok. Slow it down a lil though. Hang at 75 and watch. You may have passed your ideal dose (perhaps 60 - many like 60)...I would have said 4-6 weeks at 60 personally. But I tend to move slower and pay close attention to how I feel, very close attention.
>
> > "My question is can benzo's cause Nardil to loose its effeciacy?"
>
> ***My opinion here, as this is different for everyone, is your answer is in how benzo's make you feel in general anyway. Benzo's depress me the next day in general ok...so do they prevent nardil from working correctly?....for a depression patient yes...depressive symptoms are common next day with benzo use for sleep so....if nardil is for depression you are technically (albeit prob not to much) inhibiting some of the AD effect. Also, yes Ive noticed my energy level on nardil is way higher, if I sleep without temazepam (benzo) use, the next day. Benzo's work on GABA and nardil does to some extent...but from the studies Ive read they do this in a different way (can give u those studies if you like)...I had the theory once that benzo's would create GABA tolerance with nardil...this was suggested to be false from what ive read and my experiences...temazepam hits me just as hard as it always did if (heres the trick) I dont use it too often...this minimizes any risk also of "dampening" mood on nardil. Add another type of hypnotic and use benzo's a few times a week...if you can. Nardil insomnia is actually, I know sounds weird but, enjoyable to some extent...created need for lil sleep and pumped me way full of energy...of course lack of sleep will catch up with you later...took about 2 months to see issues in my body from lack of sleep on nardil. get a good suite of sleep meds for it.
>
> > The reason im worried is because while i was on parnate, taking valium or xanax etc. for sleep would cause parnate to stop working the next day.
>
> ***again I dont think its "stopped working"...you are simply (my guess) hindering its AD effects...benzo's can be depressive the next day - this is actually quite commone...dr's are well aware of this and valium is notorious for this. Not as much xanax. Klon is also another one implicated in bad depressive issues the compound over time after prolonged use and may mask effects of your AD.
>
> > Another thing that made me come to that conclusion was parnate would make me a little dizzy and give me dilated pupils, this would also dissapear when taking a benzo for sleep as would any positve feelings.
>
> ***Dizzy with dilated pupils....has to do with the stimulant properties (the energy levels) the parnate may give you...again benzos will slow you down in this regard...chill you out....cut anxiety (related to NE or stimulation)...this is how they work really...calm the nerves. NE is another issues in anxiety apart from GABA. Parnate effects NE pretty good I believe. I dont take it though...nardil is my first maoi.
>
> > I experienced insomnia for the first time on nardil the other night and i took some ambien to try and counteract this.
> > I also had a slightly increased heartbeatfrom the nardil.
>
> ***Benzos will slow heartbeat a lil I believe...this is another way they address anxiety - chilling you out...reduce heart rate or bp I think is also lowered. These are chill out meds...heart rate, bp, sweats etc...are all issues with anxiety that benzos are basically geared towards relaxing. So if u have a med like a maoi that increases stimulation (may play on heart rate, energy, bp - to get you going) then taking a benzo is somewhat counterproductive if you need that stimulation from nardil/parnate to feel good. Again I suggest a sleep med alteration...combination benzo and something else.
>
>
> > 40 mins after ingesting the ambien my heartrate returned to normal, i didnt feel dizzy and my pupils went from dilated to constricted.
>
> ***see above - this is typical of benzos....these symptoms are typical of panic/anxiety which a benzo reduces.
>
> > Sorry for such a long post but im just wondering is it possible im in a small minority where benzos can cause an maoi to not work as well?
>
> ***no my friend...this is common - but its that its "not working as well"----have no fear it wont kill nardil for you in the long run. ditch the benzo and you will return to the stimulation u once had - those feeling you liked from it. The benzo just dampens your mood - anti-AD effect like I said above.
>
>
> So....combo sleep meds - benzo/AP or something mabye...something else....trazodone, seroquel, a tca....something plus a benzo for those times of hardcore anxiety/insomnia....just dont overuse the benzo and you will feel nardil working "better" for u - more energy and less mood dampening. This is all familiar to me...but we are all different so just use this as an "investigational" point ok...you may react different but I think its safe to say this is the issue.
>
> myco
>
>Benzodiazepines have shown results comparable to traditional antidepressants in clinical trials. For example:
Laakman, G, M Faltermaier-Temizel, S Bossert-Zaudig, T Baghai, and G Lorkowski. "Treatment of depressive outpatients with lorazepam, alprazolam, amytriptyline and placebo." Psychopharmacology 120, no. 1 (July 1995): 109-15.
That of course does not negate your personal experience with benzos. Be careful, however, not to confuse the issue of CNS depression with that of depressed mood.
poster:metric
thread:887994
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20090330/msgs/888694.html