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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Kath on July 25, 2007, at 17:06:42
Son had his 'intake meeting' Monday. The intake team will meet next Monday to see if he's suitable for the program.
We'll see what happens.
From the way he was talking today, I could tell that he still really hesitates to go away for 3 months. I can understand the ambivalence. Also, he wants rehab for cocaine. I know he'd benefit from various parts of the rehab (cognitive behaviour info etc & general therapy, etc) but I don't know how it would work out for him if they're putting a lot of emphasis on total abstinence, which I suspect they are.
The GOOD thing is that I seem to be able to be, to some extent, in a 'wait & see' mode. OR maybe I'm just in shock & protecting myself from FEELING what I actually feel!!!! That is a definite possibility!
I sort of wish I'd been sterilized at birth!!
I love both my kids dearly, but I think I am WAY took screwed up to be able to deal with the intense feelings (in me) that come with seeing my kids in pain or knowing of their pain. Sometimes I feel like it's more than I can bare. One's an addict & has been diagnosed as schizophrenic; the other has severe chemical sensitivities/environmental illness & isn't 'bubble girl' but has a SEVERELY limited lifestyle & problems.
I feel like I'm whining. I know people live & thrive with way worse things.
Do any parents have things that have helped them detach emotionally from their kids?
I can tell myself intellectually "They're adults" etc. but it's on the emotional level I get snagged.
I do better than I used to, but still get so messed up.I think of my son, with his mental illness & addiction & wonder HOW he'll manage on his own. I'm sure he can, but I just can't think about it. It's too upsetting.
Kath
PS I've been SO tired since Sunday. By the way, my son DID use ecstasy & drank on the weekend at the music festival. He was honest about it at the intake. I don't know what impact that will have.
I am being able to enjoy my flower garden, even sitting by it looking at the flowers, so that's good.
Posted by Kath on July 25, 2007, at 17:16:47
In reply to Tips on DETACHMENT re:Kids? Son'sRehabIntake etc, posted by Kath on July 25, 2007, at 17:06:42
Posted by ClearSkies on July 25, 2007, at 18:23:54
In reply to Tips on DETACHMENT re:Kids? Son'sRehabIntake etc, posted by Kath on July 25, 2007, at 17:06:42
Well, I have no tips. And I'm not a parent. I have a step daughter who has pretty much cut herself off from her family and has multiple problems with abusing substances, and has mental health issues. And I'm an alcoholic (in full sustained remission, as my therapist puts it, smiling), so there are triggers galore for me with all this stuff.
Kath, do you get one on one counseling for yourself at the moment? I know that you have used groups like Al-Anon for support; but I also think that getting individual therapy is equally important. It helps us from getting "our" stuff entangled in "their" stuff. For myself, I find that I keep identifying so strongly with what my step daughter is going through at any given moment, that I want to take her by the hand and say, "watch what I do and it will be much easier."
But of course life doesn't work like that.
I guess I'm saying that by preserving yourself the best you can, and nourishing yourself the best you can, you make yourself the best mom that you can be. For me, that meant working closely with my therapist (and not to mean that I act in the capacity as a mom; she already has one of those).
But I truly believe that between mental illness and addictions, an entire family is threatened. And it's up to the strongest of us in that family to keep ourselves in the best possible health so as to help sustain the other members of our family when they need us.
((((Kath)))) I hope you know that I say these words with love and caring and in no way mean to imply that you aren't already doing a fantastic job - you are!! Just make certain that you are taking the absolute best care of yourself that's possible.
ClearSkies
Posted by Phillipa on July 25, 2007, at 18:43:18
In reply to Re: Tips on DETACHMENT re:Kids? Son'sRehabIntake e » Kath, posted by ClearSkies on July 25, 2007, at 18:23:54
Oh I learned to detach when my Son went to Desert Storm 82nd Airborne and was the first to be sent. I wrote letters to senators and congressmen trying to get him home. And it left him blind. I had to let go and push him out the door to blind rehab and he was his own life and family now. And he had a history of cocaine when he wasn't in the Army. It straightened him out as I know he would be dead if it wasn't for the military. Got his Bachelors at ECU in social work later. So what was a negative turned into a plus. So maybe the counseling your Son will receive will change his life around. And I agree with counseling just for you. Love Phillipa
Posted by Sigismund on July 25, 2007, at 18:47:46
In reply to Re: Tips on DETACHMENT re:Kids? Son'sRehabIntake e » Kath, posted by ClearSkies on July 25, 2007, at 18:23:54
Hello Kath
My nice doctor was talking about some mind f*ck-up someone had and remarked that he thought it might take a generation or two to work itself out.
Apart from taking the long view, how can you possibly detach from the sufferings of your children?And it cuts the other way too.
When my mother had agitated depression and I was her main contact in the world, I became convinced that it was important to feel her despair, not try to lessen it, which she would have made impossible anyway. That is to say, I took her (so called) depression to be (shall we say) a kind of theatre that was designed to communicate intense anguish. I could either allow this, or I could fight it, and I'm very glad I allowed it.
It was the most painful thing I have ever experienced, but through/after it I had the best time I'd ever had with her.Does this seem at all relevant?
Posted by antigua3 on July 26, 2007, at 12:02:32
In reply to Re: Tips on DETACHMENT re:Kids? Son'sRehabIntake e, posted by Sigismund on July 25, 2007, at 18:47:46
Have you ever watched the show Intervention? I never remember when it's on, but when I come across it and watch it, it helps me tons because no matter what we do, they are our children and we love them, but sometimes we're hurting them by unwittingly participating in their abuse (I'm not saying you are at all, just what I see on the show).
The truth is that they have to find their own way. And if your son doesn't want to consider total abstinence, IMO, he is already resistent. Thinking you have to be totally abstinent for the rest of your life can really derail someone in the beginning, but all the person has to say is, today I won't use cocaine. Don't think too far ahead in the beginning, just remind him to think of now, today, this moment. And then if things work well, the moments build on the moments until it's hours, etc.
just a tangent. hope I didn't offend,
antigu
Posted by Kath on July 26, 2007, at 15:31:32
In reply to Re: Tips on DETACHMENT re:Kids? Son'sRehabIntake e » Kath, posted by ClearSkies on July 25, 2007, at 18:23:54
Hi CS,
Thanks for your honesty & congrats for your longtime sustained success!
I have been getting one on one through hubby's Employee Assistance Plan. You get six sessions for one situation, then usually by then, something else has come up & after a week or so, I'll call back for help with dealing with that. If you're quite specific in what you say, they accept that different situations can cause the family distress.
I did get a psychiatrist, but he only will see me about every 2 or 3 months & he is nice, but doesn't really do a heck of a lot of good. My old Psych retired. I am SO sorry 'cuz she was great. This guy is head of the local hospital psych dept.
I wish I could get someone who I can just go to ongoing, but it's so expensive.
I'm trying to be aware of how I'm doing. And I am trying to take good care of myself. Today I bought a few flowers to plant in my garden. That's a really nurturing thing for me.
Don't worry CS, I know you're coming from a loving caring place & I hear what you're saying.
I appreciate your support. It means a lot to me to be able to having people care enough to read my posts & reply. Helps be cope.
I'm sorry that you're in the situation to have a family member going through traumatic stuff also.
How are you doing? Anything interesting happening in your life? Was it you who was involved in beach cleanup? My memory is BAD...
I send you lots of hugs, Kath
Posted by Kath on July 26, 2007, at 15:39:05
In reply to Re: Tips on DETACHMENT re:Kids? Son'sRehabIntake e, posted by Phillipa on July 25, 2007, at 18:43:18
Thanks Phillipa, isn't it wonderful how things turned around so much for your son! Jeez. Who would have thought that such a harsh situation could help someone go forward into a good life? I guess it says something about the type of person he is, to make something good from it.
I'm not even sure if he'll go. First of all, there's will he be accepted. Yesterday he was sorta 'making noises' about 3 months being a long time & it hasn't been discussed since, but it won't surprise me if he decides not to go. Of course, if that happens, things HAVE to change, because he is living here as a result of the strong plan for him to go to rehab, as he stated he needed to do. Fortunately, his bioDad, my hubby & I had a talk in the back yard with him in which he agreed that Nothing that came up would stop him from going into rehab this time. (Last time it was GF moving back to BC that stopped him.)
Anyway, hubby & I really question if he's actually 'hit bottom' yet. Sure, he had nowhere to live, owed money, & said he needed rehab, but since then he's been here & has probably forgotten how that felt. Hubby & I (& bioDad) all felt that the longer it took for him to get into rehab, the more chance that he wouldn't go. Unfortunately, the system is SLOW. And we all felt it was best he went into the facility that's specifically for dual diagnosis (mental health & addiction).
Anyway, thanks for your support. I commented in my answer to CS about counselling.
Has your energy level improved Phillipa?
I send HUGS, luv, Kath
Posted by Kath on July 26, 2007, at 15:46:43
In reply to Re: Tips on DETACHMENT re:Kids? Son'sRehabIntake e, posted by Sigismund on July 25, 2007, at 18:47:46
> Hello Kath
>
> My nice doctor was talking about some mind f*ck-up someone had and remarked that he thought it might take a generation or two to work itself out.......That's actually an interesting way to see it, isn't it!!....
> Apart from taking the long view, how can you possibly detach from the sufferings of your children?.........yes; good point to remember....that this is ONE day in life...in mine & his. Who knows what will come of it or what the purpose is. It helps to know that it's all part of the huge picture.
> And it cuts the other way too.
> When my mother had agitated depression and I was her main contact in the world, I became convinced that it was important to feel her despair, not try to lessen it, which she would have made impossible anyway. That is to say, I took her (so called) depression to be (shall we say) a kind of theatre that was designed to communicate intense anguish. I could either allow this, or I could fight it, and I'm very glad I allowed it.
> It was the most painful thing I have ever experienced, but through/after it I had the best time I'd ever had with her.
>
> Does this seem at all relevant?......yes it does, but you must be a pretty amazing person. I HATE pain SO much. Whether it's physical or emotional. I don't know how you managed to do it Declan. Both my parents died when I was in my 20's, so it's a whole other issue that I hadn't even thought about....the kids' view of parents' suffering.
How are you doing these days?
I send you hugs & thanks for your caring.
luv, Kath
Posted by Kath on July 26, 2007, at 15:58:12
In reply to Re: Tips on DETACHMENT re:Kids? Son'sRehabIntake e, posted by antigua3 on July 26, 2007, at 12:02:32
I've heard about it. We don't have TV...unhooked cable years ago when our son wasn't living here for a while & never bothered to rehook it up. I only miss it at Olympics time.
> The truth is that they have to find their own way.
.....you're right. They do & it's hard to sit back, know what would be best (probably) & see them head in a different direction.And if your son doesn't want to consider total abstinence, IMO, he is already resistent.
......yeah, I agree. He's 23; partying is a big part of his & his friends' lives.> Thinking you have to be totally abstinent for the rest of your life can really derail someone in the beginning, but all the person has to say is, today I won't use cocaine. Don't think too far ahead in the beginning, just remind him to think of now, today, this moment. And then if things work well, the moments build on the moments until it's hours, etc.
> just a tangent. hope I didn't offend,
> antigu........no, you didn't offend me at all. They're wise words & actually helped me look at what an enormous thing it would be for him to look at being totally abstinent at this point. He went to an NA meeting 2 days ago & said to me the next day, that he just isn't there at this point...as far as not drinking either. That cocaine is his problem, but he's not ready to give up everything.
So, that's pretty clear. He's been open about that from the beginning, but I think that if he does go to rehab, & can get through it, he's got to benefit from the counselling, skill building etc that would happen there.
Thanks for your support & for caring.
hugs, Kath
Posted by Fivefires on August 2, 2007, at 9:02:52
In reply to Tips on DETACHMENT re:Kids? Son'sRehabIntake etc, posted by Kath on July 25, 2007, at 17:06:42
I think detachment may be over-rated Kath.
I don't think I'd be very impressed with myself if I isolated myself from one I love who obviously needs me in a way that isn't always pleasant for me.
I say 'How do I let go?'.
Someone told me, 'You don't. You stay strong and proud'.
It was a light bulb moment.
You CAN 'just be there' Kath; sometimes right on top of things and other times lying low. I think this may be the very best thing you can do for your children and yourself.
Knowing your limitations is good. Explain to your child if 'you need a little break', but always remind them you're right here for them.
My father always ended our phone calls w/ 'call me if you need anything'. Well, he didn't have a whole lot to be giving and I knew this and he knew this and knew I knew this, and we both knew what he meant when he said this. ;)
My mother has recently abandoned me in many ways.
I 'THOUGHT', I was the weak one!(?)
She is depriving me of her love before she leaves me in the physical world. (I used to be so proud of her.) And, my siblings are doing her bidding. (I used to be so 'in love' with them.)
She/they 'walled me off' to protect themselves from a lonely me, to keep themselves and their partners ever happy.
I want to always try my hardest never to leave one of my children feeling abandoned. I have one child who needs a lot (She acts like she doesn't.) and sometimes it feels unbearable, but thank God, 'it's just not in me to hide or turn away'. A breather and an explanation is certainly okay now and then.
My mother and sisters, in, I guess their perfect lives, don't recognize any value in me. My father did. Was he wrong? I don't think so.
I'd rather be wise and weary now and then, than afraid and cold, because I think in our final moments we will see our lives clearly, what we did right and what we did wrong, and in a bit of that moment, realize it's too late to go back.
we'rebetterthanthat, 5f
Posted by Kath on August 2, 2007, at 14:00:07
In reply to Re: Tips on DETACHMENT re:Kids? Son'sRehabIntake etc, posted by Fivefires on August 2, 2007, at 9:02:52
I say 'How do I let go?'.
Someone told me, 'You don't. You stay strong and proud'.
It was a light bulb moment.
You CAN 'just be there' Kath; sometimes right on top of things and other times lying low. I think this may be the very best thing you can do for your children and yourself.
Knowing your limitations is good. Explain to your child if 'you need a little break', but always remind them you're right here for them.
..........WOW Fivef - what an amazing post.
Thank you SO much. I've just been mulling "what now" as to my involvement come Sept (haven't check my yesterday post yet but it has more 'now' details).
This post gives me alot to think about.
I hope you're feeling better than you were a while ago.
love, Kath
Posted by Fivefires on August 2, 2007, at 21:18:16
In reply to Re: Tips on DETACHMENT re:Kids? Son'sRehabIntake etc » Fivefires, posted by Kath on August 2, 2007, at 14:00:07
Hey Kath!
I was just watching 'The Queen' and thought I'd check email.
I'm so glad you've gotten something from the post. In writing it, I got something as well.
I'll babble you 2moro.
HaveAGoodEve, 5f
Posted by Kath on August 2, 2007, at 22:03:27
In reply to Re: Tips on DETACHMENT re:Kids? Son'sRehabIntake etc, posted by Fivefires on August 2, 2007, at 21:18:16
> Hey Kath!
>
> I was just watching 'The Queen' and thought I'd check email.
>
> I'm so glad you've gotten something from the post. In writing it, I got something as well.
>
> I'll babble you 2moro.
>
> HaveAGoodEve, 5f
>
............Yup - I really did get a LOT from it.My daughter (clean & sober for about 9 years or maybe more) has been pressuring me for a long time to cut ties with my son until he's clean & sober. She sees him 'taking advantage' of me, using me, etc. And it's true; he does. BUT it's me who lets him!
I want to get healthy enough to be able to set & hold healthy boundaries.
If I 'cut him off' or break contact with him, in a way, it's me doing that to avoid making the same mistakes I've made in the past.
Yes, I'm afraid that I might not be strong enough to say 'no' when I want to. That is a very big fear. And it ends up hurting me and hurting him also.
But if I'm saying 'don't contact me' etc, that isn't loving & it seems like it's me punishing him for my own weakness!!
Thanks for your openness & honesty.
I LOVE what you've written. I like the part also about maybe needing to 'take a break'.
I had been thinking of 'please don't contact me until you're really ready for rehab, or in rehab - whatever. And in a way, the thought of NOT hearing his problems etc & NOT having himm ask me to forward him money etc is VERY appealing.
But what I really want is to be able to be strong enough to hold healthy boundaries.I don't know if I'll be able to!
Kath
Posted by Fivefires on August 3, 2007, at 0:18:12
In reply to Goal: to set + hold firm healthy boundaries.., posted by Kath on August 2, 2007, at 22:03:27
If his addiction is very bad, he needs someone to love him, one person to love him and not desert him.
In 'my experience' turning your back only makes a person feel more alone and need more of a drug to make them feel whole.
RU in a position of losing your home, inability to pay bills, and buy food, because of his usage?
My mother told me she wouldn't help me financially because she didn't have it to give. But then I found out she's gambling all the time, and she's bought another house (She has 4 or 5 of them now.), has land, has a business, and ...
she would not put the ring my father left me on her homeowner's policy for '$40 a year'. I asked her because I can't afford renter's insurance. I live on $900month, alone, and now abandoned.
The abandonment has made me search my soul but I am feeling so ill.
I pray to God my fam' doesn't know who I am because if they see this it's I'll prob' be disinherited.
BTW, anyone here an attorney?
I'm sorry to have strayed Kath.
My mother and fam let go. I'm suffering so badly. I reached for them and they pushed me backwards, turned around, and walked away from me.
This is why I've been so physically and emotionally sick lately.
I will still babble you tomorrow.
5f
Posted by Kath on August 3, 2007, at 18:08:01
In reply to Re: Goal: to set + hold firm healthy boundaries.., posted by Fivefires on August 3, 2007, at 0:18:12
> If his addiction is very bad, he needs someone to love him, one person to love him and not desert him.
>>>>>thanks. You're right. It's not okay for me to desert him. Maybe if he was physically or verbally violent with me or something, but he's NOT. He uses me - takes advantage of my good nature, that's for sure, but he's loving.>>>>>
> In 'my experience' turning your back only makes a person feel more alone and need more of a drug to make them feel whole.
>>>>>>>>that makes sense>>>>> RU in a position of losing your home, inability to pay bills, and buy food, because of his usage?
>>>>>>>>nope. Nothing like that at all. He's gotten in trouble a few times. He owes us a lot of money from the past, but more borrowing for first & last month rent, etc. Not drugs.>>>>>>
> My mother told me she wouldn't help me financially because she didn't have it to give. But then I found out she's gambling all the time, and she's bought another house (She has 4 or 5 of them now.), has land, has a business, and ...
>
> she would not put the ring my father left me on her homeowner's policy for '$40 a year'. I asked her because I can't afford renter's insurance. I live on $900month, alone, and now abandoned.
>
>>>>>>All that must feel horrible. Really awful.>>>>>> I'm sorry to have strayed Kath.
>>>>>>>>WHAT?!!! This doesn't have to be all about me! :-) >>>>>>
> My mother and fam let go. I'm suffering so badly. I reached for them and they pushed me backwards, turned around, and walked away from me.
>
> This is why I've been so physically and emotionally sick lately.>>>>>I'm so sorry Fivef. I wish they didn't do that.>>>>
> I will still babble you tomorrow.
>
> 5f>>>>>we're leaving for a cottage for a week tomorrow. Son is coming with us. I expect we'll enjoy it. We get along well together.
I send you love, Kath
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