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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Deneb on December 31, 2005, at 1:55:32
I'm scared for myself in the coming months. If all goes well, I will graduate soon. I really need to get my act together now or else I will mess up my life. This time of my life is very important.
I know there will be a lot of stress coming up. I'm afraid I won't be able to handle it. I'm afraid I will get desperate and do something really stupid like kill myself. (Not saying that it is stupid for people to kill themselves or that people who kill themselves are stupid, just saying that *I* would be stupid).
I can't see a tangible future for myself and I'm scared. I need to make a future for myself, but won't be able to if I'm so damned unstable all the freaking time. I wish I had some small robot or something who could follow me around 24/7 and made sure that I didn't hurt myself.
Maybe I need more things to look forward to. I often think that I'll kill myself this coming semester, but then I think that I can't because I've gotta meet some of you guys for the babble party. Then I'm worried that I won't have anything to look forward to after the party. I have to plan some things to look forward to. Yes, this is how pathetic my little life is...I've nothing to look forward to except a party with internet strangers.
I so don't understand how I got the way I am now. Nothing really bad happened to me. No abuse, deaths, divorce, or anything... How in the hell did I get so screwed up? Oh yeah, i forgot, I've always been screwed up. I'm starting to think I was born this way. Good golly I was a colicky baby.
Sorry 'bout my rant. Thanks for reading.
Deneb
Posted by Deneb on December 31, 2005, at 2:10:49
In reply to I'm scared for myself (venting), posted by Deneb on December 31, 2005, at 1:55:32
I wrote something about me offing myself before the next semester started and I'm afraid!
Right now I seriously can't see myself working hard and studying. I'm afraid now that I said it, it will come true. :-(
I don't really want to die, but I keep thinking of taking more than the recommended dose of aspirin. I choose aspirin because it is not as dangerous as Tylenol.
I don't want the future to come. I don't know how I'm going to make it through. I'm afraid I'm going to try a little more than the recommended dose tomorrow and work myself up to a more dangerous dose.
Someone tell me how sick I'm gonna be if I take too much...
Deneb
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 31, 2005, at 9:40:58
In reply to Re: I'm scared for myself (venting), posted by Deneb on December 31, 2005, at 2:10:49
> I wrote something about me offing myself before the next semester started and I'm afraid!
If you went to an emergency room with that piece you just wrote, and told them "I was on Risperdal, and I went off it, and now I am obsessing about my death.", I think that they would give you some Risperdal.
That's one thing you can do, and you can do it right now.
You've already answered your own question. The implicit one in this new post. In your second to last post, you wrote:
"I'm also thinking, "geez, I must be pretty blind to my own problems if I didn't realize that instability *is* the problem!"
I just want to be freaking stable! Sure it is exciting, but I keep messing up with life! I gotta change my thinking or something."
Or something? You've got to change something?
Here's a very critical idea.
"You can't think your way into a new way of acting. But, you can act your way into a new way of thinking."
If you want things to change, you must change your behaviour. There *is* no other way. You can think and think and think. And it will be the same.
You hear good ideas from people. You say, "Hey, that's a good idea." But you don't do them. You don't journal. You don't tell important people the truth about your distress. And you don't give the medication a chance.
When medication brings you stability, it's so unfamiliar, that you don't know how to do "stable". This is a realm where counselling augments the medication. So you can learn to manage how different it is. "...instability *is* the problem!" Your own words. Instability is the problem. *Instability* is the problem!
> I don't really want to die, but I keep thinking of taking more than the recommended dose of aspirin. I choose aspirin because it is not as dangerous as Tylenol.That's very clear. You don't want to die. You want to be noticed. But nobody is going to know what you want to be noticed for. You need to tell somebody why you need to be noticed.
So please, make yourself noticed without using an overdose to do it. Bad plan! Very low benefit. Very high risk. You would be committed, and not just for 72 hours.
The big missing piece of this puzzle, I think, is that you somehow expect people (doctors, for example) to understand what it is really like for you, without giving them the truth about what it *is* like for you. You expect people to read minds. To have information that you haven't given them.
You're afraid something is the matter with you. You're ashamed. You can look at anything from the other side. How about, "I'm not fulfilling my potential. Would you help me?"
Consider two futures:
1. Since she found the right medication, she's amazing! Look at her fly!
2. Since that time she took too many pills, she's never been the same again. Poor child.Hugs,
Lar
Posted by Deneb on December 31, 2005, at 15:25:32
In reply to Re: I'm scared for myself (venting), posted by Deneb on December 31, 2005, at 2:10:49
> I'm afraid I'm going to try a little more than the recommended dose tomorrow and work myself up to a more dangerous dose.
I took a little more than the recommended dose today. If I take more, I'm going to get sick. I can't believe how easy it was to take more than the recommended dose. Don't worry, I only took slightly more than the recommended dose. I'm not sure why I did it. I think I did it because I said I was going to do it so now I have to do it.
Don't worry, if I take more and get really sick, my Mom is home all day and I don't die.
>
> Someone tell me how sick I'm gonna be if I take too much...
>
> Deneb
Posted by 10derHeart on December 31, 2005, at 15:51:30
In reply to Re: I'm scared for myself (venting), posted by Deneb on December 31, 2005, at 15:25:32
>>Don't worry, if I take more and get really sick, my Mom is home all day and I don't die<<
To be blunt, now you are scaring the crap out of me.
I really care about you, Deneb, that's why I don't like to hear you now acting on certain impulses - a step beyond just thinking, venting and wondering (all maybe painful and distressing at times, but not actually dangerous).
As you know, it's not just about the worst-case scenario of death. It's about damaging yourself physically and otherwise. It's about the hell your family will all go through with you, should you make an error, or give in to a sudden impulse.
And all your other Babble friends, too...there are a *lot* of us, you know. You do realize that, don't you? I prefer you do things *for* Deneb, but, at moments we all can't or won't, so it'd be great to maybe NOT do this thing for others?
Please, please find some IRL support or something to distract your mind away from flirting with medications and their effects. This is really NOT a game. I know you don't really think so either, but from my POV, reading this.... :-(
You know, I can't wait to meet you IRL if I can manage the Toronto trip. I have grown to be so fond of you - and that means ALL of you, not just when you're 'more stable,' or more cheerful, or any certain way. No, ALL of you makes up a beautiful, unique, brave, valuable creation on this Earth that I'd be honored to have as a friend! You hear me, right? And yes, you're brave, because you Babble, and try out new ideas/advice, and you don't give up, and you reach out here. That's so hard for you, yet you've learned to do it! Wow! That takes courage to push through social anxiety - even online.
And - me using this tone doesn't mean I'm mad or disappointed, or that you're bad or any of that. I know it's easy to start imagining such things. (I do it too, sometimes) But I'm tellng you in advance, that's not how I feel.
IMPORTANT - **Even right this second while you're scaring me, that does NOT change me liking you, one bit. I like you and you're stuck with that.**
((Deneb))- 10derHeart
(I have to be away from my PC for a couple hours, but I will be happy to Babblemail with you later, if that'll help.)
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 31, 2005, at 16:43:22
In reply to Re: I'm scared for myself (venting), posted by Deneb on December 31, 2005, at 15:25:32
> > I'm afraid I'm going to try a little more than the recommended dose tomorrow and work myself up to a more dangerous dose.
>
> I took a little more than the recommended dose today. If I take more, I'm going to get sick. I can't believe how easy it was to take more than the recommended dose. Don't worry, I only took slightly more than the recommended dose. I'm not sure why I did it. I think I did it because I said I was going to do it so now I have to do it.Don't go there. You didn't say you were going to do it. You said you were afraid you were going to do it.
Nobody is going to know you did this. It's just what I was talking about in my last post. Nobody can read your mind. Nobody knows what you did, or why you did it. If you get sick, NOBODY WILL KNOW WHY!
> Don't worry, if I take more and get really sick, my Mom is home all day and I don't die.
Right. Don't worry.
Look. You've got to stop this BS and tell somebody the truth about what's going through your mind. Do you want to get locked in a psych ward? It doesn't have to go that way. You've chosen a course of action which has no upside.
You asked for evidence that medication benefitted you, just three days ago. Do you have any doubt about that now? This is you, off meds.
Lar
Posted by Deneb on December 31, 2005, at 17:31:27
In reply to Dammit Deneb! » Deneb, posted by Larry Hoover on December 31, 2005, at 16:43:22
I won't take anymore today, I promise. I've got aspirin breath and I think too much acid in my stomach.
sorry for the scare. Don't know what is up with me 'cause i wasn't particularly distressed or anything.
Maybe I'm just bored.
Deneb
Posted by alexandra_k on December 31, 2005, at 17:44:31
In reply to I'm sorry, I won't do it again, posted by Deneb on December 31, 2005, at 17:31:27
active passivity:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20051215/msgs/591256.html
see... there is a pattern...
'everybody hates me and wants me to die'
or
'everything is hopeless and i just want to die'which tends to elicit other people trying to help you see your way around that...
and sometimes... it helps and you feel a bit better.
and othertimes... you don't get the responses you need and you feel a bit worse.and then...
'i guess i was just bored'
or something like that...then things are okay for a while...
then back to the start.
over and over and over.
if you want to get off...
well. people try and offer you concrete suggestions of things you can do.
most notably
- the medication really did seem to make a big difference with respect to helping prevent you get into a bad place. and helping you figure your way out of that bad place.
- therapy. DBT in particular.
but...
you don't really want to do any of those things.
maybe what you want...
is validation.
but...
that is really hard for other people. it is hard to give a lot of validation to a person who doesn't seem to be doing much (of the concrete variety) towards helping themselves...
and it is your decision...
but i think i see what people mean when they used to tell me 'we can't help someone who doesn't want to help themself'. i mean... what they really should have said / meant to say was that it was too draining for them to try and help me when i wouldn't heed any of their concrete suggestions.
i mean... it is my choice whether i follow the concrete suggestions or not...
but one choice has the consequence that other people are more willing to help...
and the other choice has the consequence that other people tend to give up trying to help...
make sense?
Posted by Deneb on December 31, 2005, at 17:57:07
In reply to Re: I'm sorry, I won't do it again, posted by alexandra_k on December 31, 2005, at 17:44:31
So, people are frustrated that I won't do things to help myself?
People offer suggestions and I don't follow them and this makes people feel angry and frustrated?
I think maybe I took more than the recommended dose to see whether or not I really do need help. If I couldn't do it, that would mean that I didn't need any help. If I really did do it that means that i have problems.
I really did it, so I'm guessing I really have problems and need some help.
So, I have an excuse to get help now...because I really did it.
I'll you how it goes.
Deneb
Posted by alexandra_k on December 31, 2005, at 18:20:13
In reply to Re: I'm sorry, I won't do it again, posted by Deneb on December 31, 2005, at 17:57:07
> So, people are frustrated that I won't do things to help myself?
> People offer suggestions and I don't follow them and this makes people feel angry and frustrated?i need to try and think of an analogy... probably one with humour in it... but i'm not on form today...
:-(
i'll try and do as best i can.lets suppose you really care about someone.
and you really want them to be happy and to be getting what they want out of life.
and you can see that they really struggle at times...
(with going round in the circle i described)now lets suppose that you see that there are things that person can do that are likely to help them in the long run.
but the person doesn't do those things.
kind of like how if someone is sick and they need to go to the doctor and get an antibiotic and they won't - they just want their friends to give them panadol all the time...
i really do believe that people only feel frustrated because they care. because they really want you to have a life that you consider to be worth living. to get what you want out of life. to be genuinely happy.
> I think maybe I took more than the recommended dose to see whether or not I really do need help. If I couldn't do it, that would mean that I didn't need any help. If I really did do it that means that i have problems.
i'm lost. sorry but... that doesn't make any sense to me.
you vaccilate between:
'everything is so terrible and i am so messed up and i am going to kill myself'
and
'there is nothing wrong with me i am perfectly fine'
but the truth... lies somewhere in the middle.
at times... and in some respects... there is nothing wrong with you and you are perfectly fine. at other times... in some other respects... you could really benefit from some therapy / medication. that isn't to say you are totally and completely all f*cked up. that is to say that if you want to have a life worth living... well... that is what DBT is supposed to be about. Creating a life worth living for yourself. And giving you the skills... To create that for yourself. But yeah... It is going to involve hard work from you. And medication... has really helped you. I couldn't believe how well you were doing when you were on it... I know it isn't a magic cure... But I really do think it helped give you the edge where you were doing amazingly well and dealing with your thoughts / feelings and you weren't escalating out of control, and you weren't contemplating suicide and obsessions with people etc etc etc.
So those things helped.
you don't need an excuse to seek help.
the things I've mentioned...
are enough.
they are enough of a reason.
you don't need an 'excuse'
sometimes... it is more about preventing / minimising the impact of the 'bad times'
than it is about doing nothing until the bad time is out of control and you are a serious risk to yourself.
and all we can offer is panadol
which long term...
well the circle continues.
and it can't be much fun for you :-(
and you deserve better for yourself.
you do.
and it is a little frustrating for me when i think you could be doing a lot better (and be in a little less pain) for therapy / medication. but you don't see that.but other people can't make you...
and it is up to you...but people only 'pressure' you...
because we do care.
i'm not angry.
i get a little frustrated at times (because i remember how horrible it felt to be going round that circle...) and because a combination of therapy / meds helped me to get off...
and i do want what is best for you.
Posted by Phillipa on December 31, 2005, at 20:06:28
In reply to Re: I'm sorry, I won't do it again » Deneb, posted by alexandra_k on December 31, 2005, at 18:20:13
Deneb you said you would go back on your meds! That they were helping you and we all could see it . Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Tamar on December 31, 2005, at 20:43:28
In reply to I'm sorry, I won't do it again, posted by Deneb on December 31, 2005, at 17:31:27
(((((Deneb)))))
You sound really anxious. You sound as if you don’t know which way is up. You sound as if you don’t feel able to make decisions.
Sweetie, you need to see a pdoc again. Any pdoc. Whoever can see you soonest.
I can understand that when you feel fine you think you don’t need a pdoc or meds. But that’s only some of the time. Part of the time you obviously don’t feel fine. Those are the times the meds can help with.
Feeling fine right now is not enough. You might feel bad again before three days have passed. Can you feel any compassion for yourself? Can you think, “Aww, Deneb; you’re a good person: you should be allowed to feel OK all the time”?
People here love you. We love you a lot. We want to see you treat yourself with as much love as we have for you. So please make an appointment with a pdoc, even if you feel fine.
Love,
Tamar
Posted by ClearSkies on January 1, 2006, at 8:10:11
In reply to Re: I'm sorry, I won't do it again, posted by Deneb on December 31, 2005, at 17:57:07
You said it perfectly
"So, people are frustrated that I won't do things to help myself?
People offer suggestions and I don't follow them and this makes people feel angry and frustrated?"
And I'm not going to participate any further on these threads, Deneb.
You have to do the work.
ClearSkies
Posted by Nickengland on January 1, 2006, at 8:25:52
In reply to Here it is right here: » Deneb, posted by ClearSkies on January 1, 2006, at 8:10:11
When you was taking Risperdal, you had hardly any, if none at all dark thoughts whatsoever.
You stopped Risperdal - slowly but surely the dark thoughts you have started to creep back in.
You then spoke about stopping all medications. Then the thoughts got worse.
Now you took some tablets in the form of some kind of self harm.
A slippery down hill slide since stopping the Risperdal...
I noticed this change as soon as the Risperdal was stopped. I could be wrong, but if you went back on Risperdal perhaps you would be doing alot better, in fact i'm not a betting man, but i'd bet that you would be.
Doctors aren't always right, if you manipulate them - they might say come off that medication. Then a couple of months later you end up in hospital because you've taken an overdose for example. Back to square one.
Be honest with yourself, the rest will come naturally. Basically, if you're being helped by a medication (which the doctor gave you) the doctor would have to have a reason to stop that medication i.e. you say you feel you dont need to take for x reasons, mainly as you're feeling better.
From what I have read though (I think others agree too) you was doing really well when you was taking Risperdal..
Posted by JenStar on January 1, 2006, at 13:48:02
In reply to I'm scared for myself (venting), posted by Deneb on December 31, 2005, at 1:55:32
hi Deneb,
you're going to graduate just fine, and you're NOT going to die! :) Life IS uncertain after graduation, but just take it one day at a time. Just graduate first.It's OK to live at home after graduation, while you figure out what to do and when to do it. It's OK to take some time to discover what's next: grad school, a job, etc.
yes, it will be stressful, but it's good that you're already thinking about how to handle it.
And I don't think that looking forward to the babble get-together is lame. I hope to be able to go, too! :)
I DO think it's good to keep putting fun events into your future to look forward to. I do it too, and it really helps me get through rough times when I think, "In 2 months, I get to do XYZ." Or, "in 6 months, we'll get to visit XXX." I think it's a great way to help make life more exciting.
What are your support systems right now in case you get stressed/upset to the point where you do seriously consider suicide?
JenStar
Posted by JenStar on January 1, 2006, at 13:51:55
In reply to Re: I'm scared for myself (venting), posted by Deneb on December 31, 2005, at 15:25:32
Deneb,
aaarrrggghhhh! Don't do this! Think how proud of yourself you are when you resist the urges to over-medicate. Think about how stable you are when you're taking your standard dose of meds. You need to stay in control and stable through graduation.I'm glad you only took 'a little' more, but what is 'a little' ? Aspirin in small doses can help pain and may even be good for the heart (SMALL doses). In large doses it can contribute to stomach issues, bleeding, etc. And any drug can cause death if you take too much at once.
Listen, don't do things just because you at one time said you would. Do them because they will benefit the current AND Future Denebs.
I hope you're OK.
JenStar
Posted by Deneb on January 1, 2006, at 19:02:02
In reply to Re: I'm scared for myself (venting) » Deneb, posted by JenStar on January 1, 2006, at 13:48:02
You guys are giving me a much needed push to do things.
I'm going to take people's advice.
I'll post about how it goes.
Sorry I didn't respond individually.
Deneb
This is the end of the thread.
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