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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by TexasChic on May 14, 2004, at 11:54:57
I know part of it is because my friend that went on a trip has not been talking to me since she's been back. She does this sometimes and everytime I ask if she's mad at me, she says no, its just her. But it still brings me down when she does it.
In addition to that, I got in a car wreck (my car is totaled), I'm trying to move out, and I'm about to file bankruptcy. All of these things have multiple problems that bring me down.
I also keep thinking of my friend who I had a fight with and we ended up severing ties. I know I did nothing wrong and should just forget about it, but it makes me keep thinking that I'm incapable of making friends.
I also know this has to do with the fact that I'm about to move out on my own for the first time in my life, and although I'm excited, I feel some anxiety too.
I've just got to get it together, but I don't seem to want to do anything but drag my feet. My Prozac Wellbutrin combo has been working really well, but today I just feel overwhelmed and depressed.
Posted by partlycloudy on May 14, 2004, at 12:12:10
In reply to I feel down today., posted by TexasChic on May 14, 2004, at 11:54:57
What?? All that going on in the same life at once? Anyone would be bewildered and down. Moving is the biggest stressor I have ever dealt with (over and over and over...). It's hard too for friendships to end or change sometimes. They are organic, really. I haven't had any success maintaining friendships once I have moved away from a place.
Need help moving boxes? I work for pizza.
Posted by TexasChic on May 14, 2004, at 12:38:58
In reply to Re: I feel down today. » TexasChic, posted by partlycloudy on May 14, 2004, at 12:12:10
Mmm-m-m, pizza. Actually, I think I may hire somebody to move my stuff, just to make life a little easier. I don't have much, so I'm hoping that will keep the price down, but furniture is just so hard to move. I have a pillowtop queen size bed (which I love, love, love!) and it has to be put up in the loft part of the apartment, which will be difficult. Anyway, I'm rambling when I need to be working, so I better stop. Thanks for the support!
Posted by spoc on May 14, 2004, at 13:08:12
In reply to Re: I feel down today. » TexasChic, posted by partlycloudy on May 14, 2004, at 12:12:10
Texas, you have every reason to be down over all that, please don't even think about beating yourself up for feeling down! (Geez, how many times do we tell people to do things we can't do ourselves! But I personally do still need to hear it from others sometimes, I don't trust it coming from myself.)
As far as the friendships, maybe in many cases some people are just built with a certain level of sensitivity to where they notice things that may have validity, but that many others don't, and neither is wrong. Kind of like being able to hear a dog whistle when no one else can (although I sure wish there had been a different animal in that cliche)! And, some more so than others will not hear it, and it just the way THEY are wired. Both people miss out on some things by having their particular type of awareness, and both benefit from it too at other times. Just not always the same times.
And it's probably often true that we tend to be drawn to the same kinds of people over and over in the first place, with whom the pattern and possibly outcome will often be the same. Until we can sort it all out and end up with people more compatible in emotions with us, and see that it isn't always us but rather the less suitable combinations we were trying. We can have so many of the same interests in common with someone, that we keep thinking that it is a relationship that should work on all levels, but key underlying differences between what we naturally see in situations can still prevent our outlooks from ever meshing as seamlessly as others seem to.
For example (and I know this is a "duh"), you miss your old friend and wish you could hit the winning rhythm with the other one, so you may now go on to "meet the same people over again" and try to get it right with them this time, where what you are really doing is trying to give yourself peace with the other situations. And, making that seem even bigger than it is, if you've been having problems for while now and not really getting out there and meeting many new people or being your real self with them, you'll have a smaller pool from which to draw possible winning combinations.
I know that I have *often* repeated the same patterns in who I meet and hang out with, and some intangible factor would cast recurring confusion on things, but looking back later I could see that no one was really wrong in many examples, just different in what they notice and feel.
Now as far as the rest of it, I won't even waste time saying "Try to think of problems as challenges/opportunities...." I'll just say, those *bite* and it's understandable that the onwards and upwards part might be delayed for awhile!
ANYWAY!!! What are you doing today -- can you just escape and spend the day watching back to back movies at a theater, treat yourself?? :- )
Posted by TexasChic on May 14, 2004, at 13:54:32
In reply to Re: I feel down today., posted by spoc on May 14, 2004, at 13:08:12
Thanks spoc, that gives me some things to think about. I think I kind of unconsciously knew I needed to meet new types of people, because I've been searching for ways to meet 'different' people. Like for instance, I went to that meetup.com, and one of the meetings in my town was for Pagans. Now I'm not a Pagan, but I've read about it and it seems very peaceful and non threatening. So these would be people that would have an entirely different perspective on the world than anybody I have ever known. I haven't had the guts to go yet though. But I'm trying!
And you're right about needing someone to tell you to stop beating yourself up sometimes. I guess I'm just feeling down and want someone in the world to comiserate with me.
As for doing something today, I am at work now. But after work I'm picking up my 6 yr old nephew and he's spending the night with me. I always have so much fun with him. Kids never fail to cheer me up. So I'll have my mind off my worries soon enough. :-)
Posted by AuntieMel on May 14, 2004, at 14:44:56
In reply to Re: I feel down today. spoc, posted by TexasChic on May 14, 2004, at 13:54:32
Bummer.
I'm going to try to put a positive spin on some of the things. Hope it doesn't tick you off.
Maybe your friend needs some veg time. I know I do sometimes, especially after a trip. Returning after a trip always make me feel let down, even if it was one of those i'm-stuck-here-in-kazakhstan-and-it-bites-and-i-want-to-go-home-NOW kind of trips. About the best you can do is a re-assuring "I'm here if you need me"
The car's totaled, but you're not.
Of course you can make friends (see problem number 1). My philosopy has always been to have one or two good friends you can trust, and maybe a few to just hang with. It's less complicated.
You're moving out on your own? Congratulations! I'm pushing (some number bigger than 3)ty and I haven't lived on my own yet.
And the thunderstorms yesterday were pretty good.
Mel
Posted by TexasChic on May 14, 2004, at 16:04:28
In reply to Re: I feel down today, posted by AuntieMel on May 14, 2004, at 14:44:56
No, you didn't tick me off. What I wanted was to have someone else's opinion other than my own, and that's what you gave me. So thank you.
But she just did something else. We had been talking of going to Scarboro Fair for weeks. She got a phone call from a friend from out of town who said she was coming up to go. She was all happy and completely perked up after that. Of course, she didn't invite me to go. She actually said 'My friend Lisa is coming up and we're going to Scarboro Fair this weekend, isn't that cool? I was just like, whatever.
The thing about it though, is I had a conversation with her a couple of weeks ago about how insulting her boyfriend was to me and that I didn't know if I could take it anymore. But we talked it all out and everything seemed fine. What I think happened is she talked to him about it and he got mad (he's pretty hot headed). So now she doens't want to invite me anywhere with him.
Anyway, I may feel completely different tomorrow, but I just needed to get it all out. I'm about to get off work, so yall have a good weekend.
Posted by AuntieMel on May 14, 2004, at 16:46:20
In reply to Re: I feel down today AuntieMel, posted by TexasChic on May 14, 2004, at 16:04:28
Well, there you go. She's still at that "put my boyfriend ahead of my friend 'cause I've got no mind of my own and it's easier than fighting with him and maybe my friend will understand later" stage. Thankfully my daughter finally got out of that, but it took some hard work.
Posted by TexasChic on May 17, 2004, at 16:01:37
In reply to Re: I feel down today., posted by spoc on May 14, 2004, at 13:08:12
I just wanted to say I thougth alot about what you had to say about friendship this weekend. Especially about how you can have lots of things in common, and still not click. Also about how some people are more sensitive to things than others. Right now I'm trying really hard to tackle the self destructive habits I have. I'm still having trouble with getting upset when a friend talks about going somewhere and doesn't invite me. I know its a self esteem thing, but its one thing to know what you need to change, and another to actually do it.
As far as the other things in my life, I went to get my belongings out of my totaled car today. It was so sad. It was the first new car I've ever had. I picked it out myself. It just looked so sad sitting there. I cried a little bit.
I'm still feeling kind of down, but I'm taking it one step at a time.
> Texas, you have every reason to be down over all that, please don't even think about beating yourself up for feeling down! (Geez, how many times do we tell people to do things we can't do ourselves! But I personally do still need to hear it from others sometimes, I don't trust it coming from myself.)
>
> As far as the friendships, maybe in many cases some people are just built with a certain level of sensitivity to where they notice things that may have validity, but that many others don't, and neither is wrong. Kind of like being able to hear a dog whistle when no one else can (although I sure wish there had been a different animal in that cliche)! And, some more so than others will not hear it, and it just the way THEY are wired. Both people miss out on some things by having their particular type of awareness, and both benefit from it too at other times. Just not always the same times.
>
> And it's probably often true that we tend to be drawn to the same kinds of people over and over in the first place, with whom the pattern and possibly outcome will often be the same. Until we can sort it all out and end up with people more compatible in emotions with us, and see that it isn't always us but rather the less suitable combinations we were trying. We can have so many of the same interests in common with someone, that we keep thinking that it is a relationship that should work on all levels, but key underlying differences between what we naturally see in situations can still prevent our outlooks from ever meshing as seamlessly as others seem to.
>
> For example (and I know this is a "duh"), you miss your old friend and wish you could hit the winning rhythm with the other one, so you may now go on to "meet the same people over again" and try to get it right with them this time, where what you are really doing is trying to give yourself peace with the other situations. And, making that seem even bigger than it is, if you've been having problems for while now and not really getting out there and meeting many new people or being your real self with them, you'll have a smaller pool from which to draw possible winning combinations.
>
> I know that I have *often* repeated the same patterns in who I meet and hang out with, and some intangible factor would cast recurring confusion on things, but looking back later I could see that no one was really wrong in many examples, just different in what they notice and feel.
>
> Now as far as the rest of it, I won't even waste time saying "Try to think of problems as challenges/opportunities...." I'll just say, those *bite* and it's understandable that the onwards and upwards part might be delayed for awhile!
>
> ANYWAY!!! What are you doing today -- can you just escape and spend the day watching back to back movies at a theater, treat yourself?? :- )
Posted by TexasChic on May 17, 2004, at 17:00:16
In reply to Re: I feel down today. Spoc, posted by TexasChic on May 17, 2004, at 16:01:37
Okay, now my 'friend' just blatantly blew me off. Now I can't stop crying (at work of course). I'm just so messed up today. I can't figure out if my meds aren't working or if this is just me – I've been feeling depressed since Friday. I'm still going to keep taking it one step at a time, but its so hard.
Posted by partlycloudy on May 17, 2004, at 17:22:22
In reply to I still feel down., posted by TexasChic on May 17, 2004, at 17:00:16
Oh, Texaschick, I am sorry for you and sorry for the person who blew you off. I don't know how many times my heart has been fractured by misplaced or misdirected friendships. I guess that is why I am so guarded today. A crystal ball would come in so handy in times like these (What *were* they thinking??!!), but instead we have these clunky human emotions, feelings that bruise all too easily, and plus - your car!!! You know, of course, that YOU were the most important thing about that car. the precious cargo.
We'll take care of you, sweetie.
Posted by spoc on May 17, 2004, at 21:40:04
In reply to Re: I feel down today. Spoc, posted by TexasChic on May 17, 2004, at 16:01:37
: ( : ( : ( : ( : (
I really do know what you mean about feeling hurt over these apparent "signals," even though for quite awhile now I'm the one who's done kind of a blanket disappearing act (due to my intermittent depression or whatever else I have). I have wreaked a lot of damage that way, so it's ironic I should be talking at all! But I do so from the perspective of what it was like at times when I did still want to be involved in things. I'm just tossing out random thoughts, so sorry if I have it all wrong! :- )
Is it possible that this girl would be better to have as a "(friendly) acquaintance" than a close friend? You've known her a long time now so obviously it's not that simple anymore, but instead of feeling so bad about yourself, maybe you could consider it to have been, from the start, one of those ill-fated combinations we were talking about... Not a rejection, but different enough expectations/availablity (including emotional) to where it never could have come together seamlessly for you both...?
I'm more comfortable considering some relationships to be more like special acquaintances. When they haven't *naturally* ended up fitting the bill of close/time-intensive friendships ("naturally" being the key word), but there is still something good there. It could be only that we somehow haven't had the chance to get to know each better, but it could also level out there due to something like you describe (identified sooner, ideally!). I know I'm not demanding, so if that kind of thing happens more frequently than I care to roll with, they end up in the friendly acquaintance category.
I need to feel that motivations are roughly equal from the start, or I *can't* keep trying, even if letting go or readjusting my expectations would be difficult. I'm the same way about guys. It doesn't even feel like strength to be that way -- I can't be otherwise because I know dealing with it will actually feel worse, and there's bound to be some attitude. I didn't used to be able to do this, but it's served me well and has been a positive thing. I get a feel for what the pattern will be like with a person (or the way it's headed, if a situation like yours), and if it doesn't match, I downshift as subtley as possible and put the ball more or less in their court. If it looks like we might just proceed to completely drift apart after that, it *is* something I want to know, even if painful, so I can start "divesting" my feelings and expectations. I know that for me, that will hurt less in the long run!
I know that's not what you want, and I think you also said you don't want to give up that source of things to do... But whatever the reason, boyfriend, inconsideration, whatever; she doesn't sound like she's going to change. And as unhappy as you've felt about this at times, I'm guessing she has some clue how you feel, yet it still keeps happening. I obviously couldn't know what is really going on, but I think there are a fair number of people out there who by nature react the way she seems to be, when they can tell someone is feeling things like this... Almost like a friendship version of commitment phobia, where showing that you want more often gets you less, continuing in cycles... Does that make any sense? (In those situations, I think pulling back and seeing what happens can also enable you to kind of start over after awhile and maybe work out better, thanks to the break from tension/pressure caused by any "unequal investment" in the relationship...)
I can't really see where it would *often* be logical to exclude a friend from invitations, when you know they'd enjoy going. But you say she does know, and she does do it at times other than when her boyfriend is involved? If it's really like that it's hard to see how it could be worth it. But the festival scenario you described seems so blatant, are you sure there isn't some communication problem? Now, the boyfriend stuff, that's another story of course. We all know that as upsetting and unnecessary as it may seem, there's little anyone can do to change how people are going to handle their romantic relationships. So if her unavailabilty is mostly about him, that's too bad, but probably not personal. And if it's about the tensions you've had with him... Is this important enough to you to start acting as if you like him?? If so, it would of course be nice if it seemed important to your friend too.
All in all, even if you haven't met other new friends yet might it still be better for your self esteem to rethink this relationship? Continuing to feel this way probably doesn't help you feel up to, and confident about, trying to meet new people either... In some ways I think going through this in a friendship can feel more dehumanizing than going through it in a romantic relationship. It seems like it isn't "supposed" to happen unless you have important differences and arguments or something; so it may also be harder to accept when it might actually be better to pull back... But sorry again if I have it all backwards!
And so sorry to hear you're feeling possibly even crummier... and that you had to see your treasured car in that condition! How is your injury coming along? Will you at least be able to get another car you like, with the insurance money? I hope things brighten a little soon! :- )
Posted by TexasChic on May 18, 2004, at 8:34:21
In reply to Re: I feel down today, posted by spoc on May 17, 2004, at 21:40:04
Thanks you guys. I actually feel much better today. Yesterday I was having one of those days where I feel like I'm going to have a nervous breakdown. My head even feels clearer. I really haven't been on the Prozac that long yet, so I guess there's bound to be a few ups and downs. It just worked so quickly I thought I was back to normal.
But I've thought things over, and what spoc said on friendships makes alot of sense to me. I guess the hardest part is I work with this friend, so that just adds to the stress. I've decided to just try to keep the hurt feelings to myself for now, because our relationship thus far has been this vicious cycle of: her doing something, me getting upset, then we talk and I cry, then she assures me she's my friend and our friendship is important, then it starts all over.
I know my feelings are definitly connected to the other friendship ending. I guess I'm scared that I'm really the person she accused me off, and I just don't want to be that clingy, needy, pathetic person she described. I don't want people to feel sorry for me, I want them to enjoy my company and want me around.
I know part of my depression (or self esteem issues, whichever the case) causes me to be paranoid, so I can't always trust those feelings. I also think it may be an OCD trait because I obsess over these things endlessly.
So, I'm going to *try* to develope a thicker skin, as well as try to make new friends so I won't feel as if I'll be completely alone if things don't work out.
And as for the boyfriend, I have tried to be nice to him over and over again, to no avail. He's just a jerk.
Thanks again yall!
Posted by TexasChic on May 18, 2004, at 10:26:12
In reply to Re: I feel down today, posted by TexasChic on May 18, 2004, at 8:34:21
That's what I think of when I can't stop obsessing over something. I keep wanting to tell her how it hurt my feelings when she didn't invite me to the fair, and also ask why she's avoiding me. But I'm trying to keep it in because I know it does no good, and I don't want to be that person. Wish me luck.
Posted by spoc on May 18, 2004, at 10:40:54
In reply to Re: Paranoia self destroyer, posted by TexasChic on May 18, 2004, at 10:26:12
Posted by TexasChic on May 18, 2004, at 11:55:51
In reply to Re: Paranoia self destroyer, posted by TexasChic on May 18, 2004, at 10:26:12
Well, we went out to smoke and were the only two out there. We sat there and sat there and the silence got really awkward. Finally I asked her if something was wrong. She said no. I said, well it seems like you've been avoiding me or something. She said, well, its been a busy last couple of weeks. Then I just let it drop. At least didn't start crying! I felt I managed to maintain a non-chalant air. But, I can tell there is something going on. I just hate this. Now we're going to lunch together (only because no one else wanted to). We'll see how this goes.
Posted by TexasChic on May 18, 2004, at 12:52:10
In reply to Re: Paranoia self destroyer, posted by TexasChic on May 18, 2004, at 11:55:51
Well, I broke my own rule and told her that it hurt my feelings that she didn't invite me to the fair. She just said, sorry, I didn't know you wanted to go. Then she said, why didn't you say something. And I said, well, you've been kind of distant lately, and then there's the fact that your boyfriend can't stand me. She said, I would tell you if he had a problem with it. And I said, so that means he decides whether or not I'm invited? And she said, no, no, not at all. And that was it. The rest of lunch was more awkward silences.
The thing is, I want someone to invite me somewhere because they want me there and would enjoy my company. But I feel like I keep setting myself up instead for a pity invite. Obviously, she no longer thinks of me anymore when something comes up, and that's hard because she didn't used to be that way. Its just so hard for me not to take it as a personal slight against me. And I know I'm not exactly making myself into someone she would want to ask somewhere because I'm upset and it shows. I wish I could just be care free and happy when I do get invited out.
I know I have to separate myself from the hurt I'm feeling, because I'm not helping the situation by pouting about it. But I sure am having trouble doing it (especially since we work together).
Anyway, I just needed to get this out, so that's why I keep writing these posts.
Posted by spoc on May 18, 2004, at 13:15:17
In reply to Re: Paranoia self destroyer, posted by TexasChic on May 18, 2004, at 12:52:10
> Anyway, I just needed to get this out, so that's why I keep writing these posts.
<<<<< Yes, never a quick or easy way to put the pain aside, just have to live through it. Boy I hate that too! : (
I think I'm going to manage to pull my own plug soon on my Internet thing, or set "contraints" up that will severely limit me. But even if I'm not around or around much, I'll be thinking of you and wishing you the best!! :- )
Posted by gardenergirl on May 18, 2004, at 13:15:18
In reply to Re: Paranoia self destroyer, posted by TexasChic on May 18, 2004, at 12:52:10
Posted by partlycloudy on May 18, 2004, at 18:20:08
In reply to Re: Paranoia self destroyer, posted by TexasChic on May 18, 2004, at 11:55:51
TexasChick, I have been doing this same self-talk for a long time. I try to make friends and I immediately doubt that they'll want to spend any time with me.
Get this: I had 2 tickets for a baseball game tonight. My husband is out of town. Do you think I could find *anyone* who wanted to go with me? They are sitting, unused, in my purse.
And tomorrow? I have 2 tickets for a concert and don't know if the person I invited to accompany me will come or not. I don't know her well, and I expect the plan to fall through. I expect this!
Why are we so very hard on ourselves about having people like us? Where is the person I used to be who could fly solo very nicely, thank you, and not be worried or paranoid about being alone? She has abandoned me, too.
Posted by TexasChic on May 19, 2004, at 8:27:57
In reply to Re: Paranoia self destroyer » TexasChic, posted by partlycloudy on May 18, 2004, at 18:20:08
I'm with you there partlycloudy. I wish I could go to the concert with you!
It turns out me and my friend went out last night and talked and everything is fine. I'm so sick of this pattern though! We talked about that too, and she said I should just tell her when I feel paraniod about something, because she knows she's really moody sometimes. She also said she thinks the other friend I severed ties with scarred me. Anyway, its like spoc said about having a lot in common but our personalities conflict (I told her that too). So we decided to try to work around that... we'll see how it goes.
Thanks to everyone who supported me through my monthly (or is it bi-monthly) freak-out session! You guys help more than you can know.
Posted by spoc on May 19, 2004, at 11:58:07
In reply to Re: Paranoia self destroyer, posted by TexasChic on May 19, 2004, at 8:27:57
This is the end of the thread.
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