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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by CrazyGuy on March 26, 2004, at 12:07:01
I'd like to get some (serious, nonjudgmental) feedback on the following: About 5 years ago, I had a therapist in another state who I saw off-and-on for about a year and a half. He has a master's degree in counseling/psychology and although he had a full-time profession in another field, he did counseling on a voluntary basis through an organization I contacted when I was in need of somebody to talk some things through with. Anyway, he was helpful to me during some trying times (e.g. a hospitalization during a manic/psychotic episode, making the decision to leave an unfulfilling job and take another job on the other side of the country). We've kept in touch via occasional e-mails in the 3.5 years since I've moved away (and in the meantime, he's moved to another state as well). I've seen him a couple of times since our therapeutic relationship ended -- we met once for coffee and another time for drinks -- when I've been in town visiting other friends. To a certain extent, I view him as an older friend who knows me pretty well (and, to a certain extent, better than some of my "closer" friends) and I enjoy keeping in contact with him and he seems to be cool with it as well. (Incidentally, I also keep in contact via phone with a former psychiatrist who I haven't seen in almost 10 years. He too lives in another state and I call him occasionally to get an informal sort of second opinion on my current medications. He also is quite open to receiving my occasional phone calls, answering my questions and asking how my life, in general, is going.) So, here's the deal: both I and my former therapist are gay men. If the occasion should arise, I would not be opposed to sleeping with him (though I'm pretty sure that I would not make the first move). The most contact that we've had thus far as been a hug after my last session with him 3.5 years ago and a hug when parting after our two social meetings since then. I know that therapists are prohibited from engaging in sex with a current client, but don't know the deal about prohibitions against sex with a former client -- especially a former client who they haven't seen therapeutically for years and now lives in another state. And let me just clarify that I'm not obsessed with this former therapist and it's not the case that I think we'd actually have a relationship (he does have a partner). It's just that I like him and have some positive feelings for him and would not be opposed to being sexual with him, but wouldn't do it if it could potentially cause him problems (though since he no longer lives/practices in the state where he was my therapist and I'm not sure he practices in the state where he currently lives I don't think he could run into any "problems"). If we had originally met under different circumstances and had developed the sort of long-distance friendly relationship we currently have now, I would be comfortable expressing to him the next time I saw him how I have positive/sexual feelings for him, but since he IS my former therapist, I think it would be inappropriate. Any (serious, non-judgmental) thoughts?
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 26, 2004, at 13:25:17
In reply to Social relationship with former therapist?, posted by CrazyGuy on March 26, 2004, at 12:07:01
I think it depends on the state and his degree but it use to be 2 years pass as a former client and they are free to date...so good luck I am jealous :) I am still in therapy so no time passed
Posted by Susan J on March 26, 2004, at 15:43:42
In reply to Social relationship with former therapist?, posted by CrazyGuy on March 26, 2004, at 12:07:01
I doubt (although I don't know for sure) that it's fine for him to have a personal relationship with you since you haven't been his client for years now.
Posted by katt on March 26, 2004, at 16:58:59
In reply to Re: Social relationship with former therapist? » CrazyGuy, posted by Susan J on March 26, 2004, at 15:43:42
Dunno, but mine was married, it had been about 8 months since he refused to see me as a patient, and he made the first move (and every other one). We have been sneaking around for almost 2 yrs. He was also my "first" (if you know what I mean).
I can't tell you whether or not it would be worth it. I call my dude all the time, but I can't introduce him to people for obvious reasons. You can look up the laws about this online. I think there is an ethical, not legal thing about it -- something about licensing and all.
They become less "doctorly" after a while and I would never see another therapist again -- they are just normal screwed up people -- like we are.
Posted by CrazyGuy on March 26, 2004, at 17:27:17
In reply to Therapist and horniness, posted by katt on March 26, 2004, at 16:58:59
Wow! Sounds like a difficult situation for you. Just so I'm clear, did he ever see you as a patient and then refuse to continue seeing you out of the blue? Or, after your initial consultation did he refer you to somebody else for an unspecified reason (probably because he was attracted to you and knew he couldn't deal with seeing you as a patient)? Actually, I have been researching this situation online and as best I can tell, there is some division in the "professional" community about this (i.e. having a social/sexual relationship with client from years ago). Some are of the opinion that "once a patient, always a patient" (and thus always "off-limits") and others think that the specifics of each case are important to determining if it's ethical/unethical. (I think the situation may be different for psychiatrists (MDs) than for non-MDs.) And, in terms of possible professional ramifications (e.g. losing one's license), I think it varies by state. I definitely hear you about therapists being human and "screwed up" like the rest of us, but I would encourage you NOT to let this experience prompt you to write off ALL therapists ever. I've had experience with several over the years -- some have been horrendous, others great, still others I didn't realize their wisdom/insight until years later. Good luck.
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 26, 2004, at 18:37:11
In reply to Therapist and horniness, posted by katt on March 26, 2004, at 16:58:59
Katt I am jealous do tell mine is on the edge but never totally crosses and I wont make the first move..share some tips :)
Posted by fayeroe on March 27, 2004, at 10:25:22
In reply to Social relationship with former therapist?, posted by CrazyGuy on March 26, 2004, at 12:07:01
Run, run, run from that idea, Crazyguy! You have a great relationship with him now....my personal opinion is that if you were sexual with him, it would forever alter the friendship that you have with him!!
Posted by noa on March 27, 2004, at 11:32:03
In reply to Social relationship with former therapist?, posted by CrazyGuy on March 26, 2004, at 12:07:01
Maybe you should bring it out in the open and say that this friendship is bringing up some conflicting feelings for you, etc. Maybe you should both seek consultation on this from a pro who deals with these kinds of issues.
Personally, I think it is the kind of conflicts you are weighing (very thoughtfully) that really point out why strict boundaries are so important in patient-therapist relationships--ie, take the burden off the patient of determining what is appropriate and what is not.
Posted by CrazyGuy on March 27, 2004, at 13:01:10
In reply to Re: Social relationship with former therapist? » CrazyGuy, posted by noa on March 27, 2004, at 11:32:03
Hey, thanks to you all for posting your responses. After sleeping on it and reading and thinking about your responses, I've decided that my semi-fantasy will remain just that. If I do see my former T again in a social situation, it will be strictly social. In the meantime, it will remain an every-so-often e-mail exchange sort of relationship. Thanks for helping to think this through and get my "I think I'd sleep with my former therapist if the occasion should arise" thoughts off my chest. Very helpful!
Posted by katt on March 28, 2004, at 16:13:38
In reply to Re: Therapist and horniness, posted by CrazyGuy on March 26, 2004, at 17:27:17
Nope, I was his patient for about 3 years, I think. He called 911 during what was a suicide attempt the last time and the paramedics came. When I was in the hospital, he just dumped me (gosh, this feels so long ago!!). He never referred me. In fact, when he told me this, the hospital gave me antipsychotics and put me on constant watch -- even while I showered and did other business!! He is a psychiatrist.
I begged him for months to take me back. I would just show up at his office and he would offer to drive me home. I was desperate to spend every minute possible with him. He would give me a hug and I would never have turned it down. Sometimes, we would sit in a beautiful area where I lived and I would just plead with him. I would sometimes see him at his office over the weekend, but he didn't want me to be his patient. Then one day he was at a conference and gave me the name of the hotel to meet him there...I thought he was in a conference room of some sort, but I was surprised when it was just a room. I went inside and was upset about stuff so it never occurred to me. He asked to kiss me and I didn't know what he meant so I said yes. Things sorta got out of control after that. I was very confused for at least a year after that. I wasn't sure who he was to me. Then I got sick and my drive disappeared as did the passion. But he gets very upset with me when I can't do anything about it. So I just do whatever to please him. So long as he doesn't throw me out of the picture.
When I was discharged, I was bounced around from one therapist and one doctor to the next. I never settled in with anyone, and eventually, just stopped seeing anyone altogether. I really would never see anyone ever again.
> Wow! Sounds like a difficult situation for you. Just so I'm clear, did he ever see you as a patient and then refuse to continue seeing you out of the blue? Or, after your initial consultation did he refer you to somebody else for an unspecified reason (probably because he was attracted to you and knew he couldn't deal with seeing you as a patient)? Actually, I have been researching this situation online and as best I can tell, there is some division in the "professional" community about this (i.e. having a social/sexual relationship with client from years ago). Some are of the opinion that "once a patient, always a patient" (and thus always "off-limits") and others think that the specifics of each case are important to determining if it's ethical/unethical. (I think the situation may be different for psychiatrists (MDs) than for non-MDs.) And, in terms of possible professional ramifications (e.g. losing one's license), I think it varies by state. I definitely hear you about therapists being human and "screwed up" like the rest of us, but I would encourage you NOT to let this experience prompt you to write off ALL therapists ever. I've had experience with several over the years -- some have been horrendous, others great, still others I didn't realize their wisdom/insight until years later. Good luck.
Posted by spoc on March 29, 2004, at 23:33:31
In reply to Therapist and horniness, posted by katt on March 28, 2004, at 16:13:38
(I hope this doesn't post three times -- have been having trouble tonight, and concluded it must have had to do with site disruptions caused by Dr. Bob getting his new photo online!)
Anyway, WOW, how very NOT in *your* best interests. Does he ever ask how all this has affected your attitude about therapy, or likelihood of ever seeking it again? Have you ever brought anything about it up? Everyone's human I guess but there are some professions in which people really, really, REALLY should be super-human in some ways! It sounds like you want him there, but I'm so sorry that this door ever got opened in the first place. I hope you'll see that he is more than just a regular screw up and find it in you to have faith in another therapist again someday!
======
> ...He is a psychiatrist... I would sometimes see him at his office over the weekend, but he didn't want me to be his patient. Then one day he was at a conference and gave me the name of the hotel to meet him there...I thought he was in a conference room of some sort, but I was surprised when it was just a room. I went inside and was upset about stuff so it never occurred to me. He asked to kiss me and I didn't know what he meant so I said yes. Things sorta got out of control after that. I was very confused for at least a year after that. I wasn't sure who he was to me. Then I got sick and my drive disappeared as did the passion. But he gets very upset with me when I can't do anything about it. So I just do whatever to please him. So long as he doesn't throw me out of the picture.
>
> When I was discharged, I was bounced around from one therapist and one doctor to the next. I never settled in with anyone, and eventually, just stopped seeing anyone altogether. I really would never see anyone ever again. >
Posted by katt on March 30, 2004, at 17:39:57
In reply to Re: Therapist and horniness » katt, posted by spoc on March 29, 2004, at 23:33:31
No, not a great place to be, but whatever...we definitely fight a lot. I'm not in therapy -- he is.
>
> Anyway, WOW, how very NOT in *your* best interests. Does he ever ask how all this has affected your attitude about therapy, or likelihood of ever seeking it again? Have you ever brought anything about it up? Everyone's human I guess but there are some professions in which people really, really, REALLY should be super-human in some ways! It sounds like you want him there, but I'm so sorry that this door ever got opened in the first place. I hope you'll see that he is more than just a regular screw up and find it in you to have faith in another therapist again someday!
> ======
> > ...He is a psychiatrist... I would sometimes see him at his office over the weekend, but he didn't want me to be his patient. Then one day he was at a conference and gave me the name of the hotel to meet him there...I thought he was in a conference room of some sort, but I was surprised when it was just a room. I went inside and was upset about stuff so it never occurred to me. He asked to kiss me and I didn't know what he meant so I said yes. Things sorta got out of control after that. I was very confused for at least a year after that. I wasn't sure who he was to me. Then I got sick and my drive disappeared as did the passion. But he gets very upset with me when I can't do anything about it. So I just do whatever to please him. So long as he doesn't throw me out of the picture.
> >
> > When I was discharged, I was bounced around from one therapist and one doctor to the next. I never settled in with anyone, and eventually, just stopped seeing anyone altogether. I really would never see anyone ever again. >
>
Posted by sexylexy on March 31, 2004, at 9:37:39
In reply to Social relationship with former therapist?, posted by CrazyGuy on March 26, 2004, at 12:07:01
Hi CrazyGuy,
I am actually in my last 24 days of getting my masters in counseling so I hope to help out!
I know for us there has to be a 5 year gap in the counseling relationship before either can take a "legal" shot at a relationship outside of the theraputic professional relationship.
If you have gotten together with this man in the past for lunch/drinks, what was your convorsation about? If it was mostly about how your mental health is then I would not take it there, however, if you all talked about mostly other issues and you have been away from each other as a client therapist for 5 years then go for it! Good Luck and God Bless!
Lexy
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