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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tabitha on July 24, 2003, at 22:10:21
More distress, similar stuff as yesterday, it's getting me down to be in my last days on the job and waiting for the leave to be approved or not. My best 'friend' from work had been on vacation for a month, returned and I wandered down to the group gathered in his office and he immediately made a joke at my expense. Later I was around again and he made some remark about women and golf that was just dumb. I don't know if something's up causing him to be jabbing at women all of a sudden, or I'm just more sensitive than usual but it hurt. The guy was vacationing in his home country of Turkey, maybe he soaked up some old-school sexism or something. He hasn't been this way around me before. Anyway I was eager to confide in him about quitting, since I haven't told anyone else besides my bosses, and after this stuff I didn't want to confide in him at all, so I feel alone.
Last night I called my ex-boyfriend, out of lack of any other friends available (we've agreed to 'be friends' but I've really been wanting to minimize contact) and it didn't really leave me feeling good. I'm imagining he'll be glad to discover that I'm a little down, since I rejected him. His life seems fine now, which also hurt. I expected him to be the more devastated one, and maybe he has been, but if so he successfully hid it, he seems happily absorbed in a burst of renewed artistic creativity with his painting. The conversation left me more down. When I talk about my career woes I just assume he's feeling smug for not having a real job. When I say I'm angry at my coworkers I imagine he's feeling smug because his religious beliefs tell him to never be angry. Yup, it was a mistake to call him. Now I imagine I just gave him ammunition to feel superior. Another person's ego fed at my expense.
I'm trying to avoid calling my therapist for a phone session, since I want to cut back that expense, but I'm at a point where I'm seriously thinking of buying some alcohol and medicating with that, though it's on my list of unhealthy coping mechanisms, to be avoided.
I've typed my little fingers out the past couple evenings with my woes. Still feel really really not so good.
Guess I'll call the therp after all, but then I have to log off and wait all evening for her to maybe return my phonecall.
Posted by kara lynne on July 24, 2003, at 23:46:21
In reply to Nobody to call, posted by Tabitha on July 24, 2003, at 22:10:21
Yeah, that calling thing. I think I gave my ex an arsenal yesterday with mine. I have renewed resolve not to give him anymore--it's enough with the calls, already. Let's play, How Humiliated Can You Feel by calling your ex...
Pardon me for not feeling so encouraged by ex's apology, when in the same breath he informs me he's planning a housewarming party, and wants to make sure if we go into counseling that I'll take as much blame as him. That's what's important to him; not that he makes it better, just that he doesn't look wrong. And don't you know he's missing me 'severely', while planning parties. Why isn't my heart warmed by this? Oh, but get this...I'm invited!!
At least you have someone who pretends to be speeritchal.
Glad you called your therapist. I did too this evening.
I wish there were more people for us to call.
Posted by Tabitha on July 25, 2003, at 12:40:40
In reply to Same boat, sans anchor, posted by kara lynne on July 24, 2003, at 23:46:21
> ..., and wants to make sure if we go into counseling that I'll take as much blame as him. That's what's important to him; not that he makes it better, just that he doesn't look wrong.
That sounds familiar. My guy was big into equality. For every conflict, I had to be equally responsible no matter what. For all his flaws, I had to have equal ones. Even if they didn't show, he'd suggest some way that they were actually present but hidden. So I'd look at his level of functioning and maturity and think, oh brother, this guy's going to push and push to make me believe I'm always the same as him.
The funny thing was, during conflict, he'd use this 12-step approach where he listed all his flaws and pointed the finger only at himself. He thought it was incorrect to even look at the other person's actions, or to feel any anger toward them. When he finished he'd expect me to do the same-- list all my flaws and say nothing about him, and stuff my anger too, then we'd be equal. Well I was trained in process groups, where a big part of what you do is tell your reaction to the other person, then eventually you both sort out what's really them and what's your projection, and where it came from. And meanwhile they have their reaction to you, and their projection, and on and on. Well, getting such 'feedback' freaked him out completely. He'd say I was blaming him, and I was incapable of taking responsibility. At one point he asked me to never use the word 'you' during a discussion again. Like I was never allowed to say what I thought was a good 'I statement', like 'when you said X, I felt Y'. It was too much for him. Anything with 'you' in it he took as blame and huge personal criticism, and not playing by the rules. It was sort of comical.
>
> Glad you called your therapist. I did too this evening.
She worked her magic. Got me to discard the whole ball of worry. Something like transitions are hard, and leaving is particularly hard for me, and I generally find a way to punish myself for leaving, and perhaps that's all my big ball of worry amounts to. In that case I can pretty much disregard it all, and know I'm going to be coming up with reasons to feel bad about myself until I get out of there.
Posted by kara lynne on July 25, 2003, at 13:38:04
In reply to Re: Same boat, sans anchor » kara lynne, posted by Tabitha on July 25, 2003, at 12:40:40
I asked my ex the other day: what if we went to this magical 3rd party and he said, "In this area you have 70% responsibility, and Kara has 30%. " He said he would accept that if it was said by a 3rd party. It is dangerous for me to talk to him too much; after awhile I start to muddle what happened. At first it was pretty clear that he should be doing all he can to apologize to me, rather than divvy out blame.
Seems pretty troublesome to me. He's wanting to take what happened and make sure its my fault before he will accept any responsiblity. Something's wrong.
But those other approaches can get a little mind-f**ky; your guy did a 4th step or two and got stuck there-- but you wonder if there's meaning behind it or just a lot of I-babble. Was your group the Forum? I don't know anything about it, but I thought I might have remembered you mentioning it.
May we both get out there--God speed.
Posted by Tabitha on July 26, 2003, at 0:51:06
In reply to Re: Same boat, sans anchor, posted by kara lynne on July 25, 2003, at 13:38:04
couples counseling is a scary thing... it was my very worst therapy experience. I definitely protected the guy during the sessions, and got labelled as the problem. The next therapist I went to, after the breakup, said the guy was abusive. At least you've had individual therapy right? I hope you'd recognize a bad therapist. Just be careful if you do it.
It's a good sign that he's willing to go. I don't think a 100% narcissist would do that.
Heavens, no, it wasn't me who did the Forum, but I started some threads about some people I knew who did it. I did regular old group therapy.
Posted by Sebastian on July 26, 2003, at 1:18:14
In reply to Re: Same boat, sans anchor » kara lynne, posted by Tabitha on July 26, 2003, at 0:51:06
Hi Tabitha I just wrote an increadably long post about my ex-girlfriend of 2 years ago that I can't get over, but, I hit the X in the corner before the second Submit your post. It was a long one and now I'm upset, I lost it.
Posted by Sebastian on July 26, 2003, at 1:26:30
In reply to Re: Same boat, sans anchor, posted by Sebastian on July 26, 2003, at 1:18:14
Anyways I haven't dated since over 2 years ago and I need to start, will you date me. Right over the internet and stuff...That sounds stupid...Friday night-morning and I'm home celebrating my graduation of two years at college by myself? I was a straight A student untill my last semester when I got a job in my field and got a B, broke my 4.0.Thats inbarassing.
So why go back to the old ex all the time, it dosen't sound like you want to.
Posted by Sebastian on July 26, 2003, at 1:55:59
In reply to Re: Same boat, sans anchor, posted by Sebastian on July 26, 2003, at 1:26:30
So anyways I'll write it over again.
She was sepperatated from her husband had 3 kids and asked me out on a date? We dated off and on for 2 years. There was talk of marrage but she never divorced her husband. I was loosing interest in her anyways, tried dumping her many times. Eventualy she went into the army found a new boyfriend and decided to marry him, had his child. Then she tells me there is a slight possibility its mine, she said we could do a DNA test if I wanted, but we had to do it without her husband. I got a call from her later on when I wasn't home so I called her back and left a message that I had called. Didn't hear back for 6 months. She was at a gas station at 10pm nere my house she wanted to talk, said her husband told her to see me. I refused to go meet her, and that was that now anouther year later. I still can't get over her, I worry all the time she will call ask for child support or something. I haven't been able to date anyone in 2 years, I want to but can't do it?
Posted by noa on July 26, 2003, at 9:30:34
In reply to Nobody to call, posted by Tabitha on July 24, 2003, at 22:10:21
Sorry, Tab. Did you talk to your therapist? How ya doin today?
Posted by noa on July 26, 2003, at 9:45:29
In reply to Same boat, sans anchor, posted by kara lynne on July 24, 2003, at 23:46:21
>wants to make sure if we go into counseling that I'll take as much blame as him.
Yeah, this pretty much fits with the impression I've formed of his motives for trying to re-engage with you. I know I'm cynical, and I'm here, not there, and never met the guy, but....I still have this suspicion that he isn't going to change and won't and that if you go back to him it will be the same old same old that made you so unhappy, and that you are now kind of out of his reach and angry and his narcisism cannot take it and he needs to not let the game end until he has made sure the scorecard makes him look good. He might consciously believe he is ready to love you and be in the kind of relationship you were asking for, but my impression is that he can't do it. He is too darn stuck on everything going his way--can he really relate on a level beyond that?
That being said, I know you have very complicated feelings about him and about this whole thing and so, don't worry about what I or any other poster thinks if you decide to go back to him. Love is not a simple thing.
As a commentary on the irrationality of relationships, Woody Allen told this joke at the end of "Annie Hall":
A guy goes to a psychiatrist and says, "Doc, you gotta help me with my brother."
Doc: "Well, what seems to be the problem?"
Guy: "He thinks he's a chicken!"
Doc: "So, why don't you have him committed?"
Guy: "I would, but I need the eggs."
Posted by Tabitha on July 26, 2003, at 13:13:42
In reply to Re: Nobody to call » Tabitha, posted by noa on July 26, 2003, at 9:30:34
Yeah I did call the therapist, and she helped. We did this exercise from a cognitive therapy book where you write down what happened, the thoughts and feelings, the distortions, the evidence for and against, etc. I felt better afterward.
But last night and today it's just more of the panicky loneliness and more of the garbage work thoughts-- anger at coworkers and self-doubt. But in between that I have happy joyful feelings about being free of the bad job, and free of ANY job for a while. I'm a weird mixture right now.
Posted by kara lynne on July 26, 2003, at 14:26:22
In reply to Re: Nobody to call » noa, posted by Tabitha on July 26, 2003, at 13:13:42
Can you name a good book?
Posted by kara lynne on July 26, 2003, at 14:30:33
In reply to Re: Same boat, sans anchor » kara lynne, posted by noa on July 26, 2003, at 9:45:29
Hi noa,
Not cynical at all, just realistic. I don't think he's ever going to change. And I'm more than a little worried about there being two men in the room. I'm also worried that the guy will be impressed by my ex--maybe not by his relationship skills, but by his being in the paper this week. I know that sounds sick, and I hope therapists are beyond that, but I've seen it happen with people.I'm not sure if I'm going to go through with it or not. I'm going to call the therapist next week and see if I can get him on the phone for a moment to get a feeling about him.
Posted by noa on July 26, 2003, at 18:43:54
In reply to Re: Nobody to call » noa, posted by Tabitha on July 26, 2003, at 13:13:42
That wierd mix of feelings sounds as normal as can be because of the big change in employment coming up. Uncertainty is hard.
Posted by noa on July 26, 2003, at 18:48:31
In reply to Re: Same boat, sans anchor, posted by kara lynne on July 26, 2003, at 14:30:33
That might be a good idea.
The thing about the therapist being snowed by the ex's power, etc., I guess it would depend on the therapist--if you live somewhere where there are a lot of celebs, maybe you could get a therapist who is used to that and won't be dazzled.
Posted by Tabitha on July 26, 2003, at 22:14:42
In reply to Cognitive therapy..., posted by kara lynne on July 26, 2003, at 14:26:22
I think it's called "Mind Over Mood". It's just a workbook really. It never did much for me when I borrowed it, but being guided thru the standard exercise seemed helpful. (Wouldn't you know I get little out of the $11.95 book, but am helped by the $120 one-on-one.)
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