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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mair on May 17, 2002, at 18:01:50
A couple of months ago, I was in pretty bad shape depression-wise, maybe just my usual mid-winter swoon. Today I discovered (had someone point out to me) that I made a truly egregious work-related error during that period - fortunately remediable, but really inexcusable, could-have-been disastrous, embarrassing, deflating and every other bad adjective related to work performance that I can think of. It's the kind of mistake I've never made before - ever - and I would definitely consider someone else who made it to be a raging incompetent at worst, or just sloppy and unprofessional at best. I could just decide that I, too, am incompetent or maybe just incompetent when depressed. (the lines get blurred) I've always continued to work regardless of the state of my depression - I need the money. But I have worried about how much easier it is to make a mistake when you have no ability to concentrate for any measurable period of time, and I really think that even in the best of times I'm a little slow and brain dead either from the meds or just years of fighting off depressions. I'm not sure what I can do, but it's just so demoralizing. I feel like I shouldn't really continue to work at my same job, because I'm sure the next big mistake is already out there, but I do need to work.... It's also a testament to trying to do too much - not controlling your workload, but how can you do that when you're in a perpetual state of disorganized distraction?
Mair
Posted by paxvox on May 17, 2002, at 18:32:15
In reply to Mistakes we make (rambling), posted by mair on May 17, 2002, at 18:01:50
It would help to know your DX (although i have seen you here for awhile, i cannot recall)and what meds you are taking. Personally, i have had that sort of problem from time to time. Wellbutrin is a good AD that can help your concentration level (but as I say, it would help to know what meds you are currently taking).
As for your job, don't EVER quit. That's letting the "illness" beat you. You may need some accomodations from your employer though. BTW, if you are in the U.S., you are protected by Federal law from discrimination due to "mental illness", and you may ask your employer for "reasonable accomodations" which they MUST provide for you under the ADA (American's with Disabilities Act of 1992). This is tied to EEOC guidelines. If you want more info on ADA, let me know, as I had to do extensive research on it against MY employer.
PAX
Posted by Dinah1 on May 17, 2002, at 18:44:36
In reply to Mistakes we make (rambling), posted by mair on May 17, 2002, at 18:01:50
Well Mair, the important thing is that it WAS remediable. And fortunately, most mistakes are.
I know exactly what you mean, though. My current problems started 8 or 9 years ago with the realization that I was absolutely certainly bound to make a disastrous work related mistake, through which I would bring shame and disaster to my co-workers and family, and that could only be remedied by... well you get the point.
It was really an obsessive concern and I have had many panic attacks over it. Every now and again (all right, quite frequently) I think OK this is it. This is the mistake I've been expecting. Disaster is sure to fall. So far it hasn't been true, but I know one day it will be.
And it is true, Mair. People make mistakes every day. Little ones and, unfortunately, big ones. Depression and drugs do make it harder to concentrate but with or without them mistakes are made from time to time by everyone. Stupid mistakes. Mistakes that only an incompetent boob would make. But even the most competent people make those mistakes. And it's not just at work. The possibilities are everywhere for a moment's inattention to cause tragedy. I get paralyzed with fear sometimes just thinking of it.
I'd like to quit my job, too, because I don't feel confident in my ability to not make one of those mistakes. Despite the fact that I know I'm good at what I do. Just as I'm pretty sure you're good at what you do too. Only people who are good at what they do get upset when they make a mistake. But my husband always reminds me that I'm not in the health professions. Any mistake I might make will not cause anyone to die or be seriously damaged. So it COULD be worse.
I don't suppose this will make you feel better Mair, and I am sorry. This happens to be my OCD fear - causing disaster through my actions. But I do think it's important to keep it all in perspective. Even famous surgeons make stupid mistakes. Even presidents and kings make stupid mistakes. It doesn't make them stupid. And it doesn't make them incompetent. It makes them human.
Posted by Phil on May 17, 2002, at 19:57:37
In reply to Mistakes we make (rambling), posted by mair on May 17, 2002, at 18:01:50
mair, Can you slow down your pace, take some time to get organized, go in early to get organized if you could.
I have so many work issues, I could write an incredibly boring book.
If I think of it, something that helps me at work is watching my breathing. Usually shallow and rapid, like my relationships, you might say.
I think we've got to try to learn our bodies signals and try to fix what we can and let go of what we can't. Fixing our breathing all the time makes a huge difference. Good posture helps(I've never said that in my life). I catch myself almost leaning forward but if I stand up straight and take long relaxing breaths, it helps.
If that doesn't work, I go ouside and have a cigarette!
Posted by Willow on May 17, 2002, at 21:02:47
In reply to Re: Mistakes we make (even longer) » mair, posted by Dinah1 on May 17, 2002, at 18:44:36
Posted by Mair on May 17, 2002, at 21:39:29
In reply to Re: Mistakes we make (rambling) » mair, posted by paxvox on May 17, 2002, at 18:32:15
Thanks, PAX, but it's really not the drugs. Wellbutrin is my primary drug. Last year, I tried adding Serzone as an augmentation agent and had I made this mistake then, I could have legitimately blamed the drug combo. Serzone made me feel perpetually hung over. I can concentrate in stretches, but I'm easily distracted, and when I start feeling overwelmed, I can be sitting at my desk supposedly working but really thinking about something lovely like suicide. And then i'll sort of snap out of it and go back to work.
In terms of the ADA, unfortunately I am more employer than employee so it really doesn't help me. I have a lot of work flexibility, just no consistent resolve to restructure stuff so i don't get overloaded. There's no one to blame but myself.
Mair
Posted by paxvox on May 17, 2002, at 22:06:23
In reply to It's not the drugs » paxvox, posted by Mair on May 17, 2002, at 21:39:29
No, YOU are not to blame, and please don't even think that you are! True, the meds have their nuances we have to deal with. Maybe you need to try some other combinations? Perhaps you need to talk to someone about how you are feeling? Give yourself some sort of "time out" opportunity when you get the brain farts. Maybe that's the time you look at some pictures of your kids, or dogs or something else you love. Get a fish even. Try some exercise, if you are not already doing so. Believe me, I know those terrible feelings, those horrible blue (or black?) moods. However, I have generally been able to find some way out. Try to find something to look forward to doing, a reward, if you will, for making it through the day. Don't let this get you too far down. Let's talk this out on the PSB.
PAX
Posted by Mair on May 17, 2002, at 22:11:54
In reply to Re: Mistakes we make (rambling) » mair, posted by Phil on May 17, 2002, at 19:57:37
Thanks guys. I go through periods when I am in sort of a panic about the possibility of making mistakes. Breathing and xanax can help as can just systematically dealing with one item at a time. (Sometimes I feel that I have so much to do that I can't even start) This mistake hurts because I don't consider myself to be particularly good at what I do, and years of depression have stripped away any measure of self-esteem, BUT I do consider myself to be meticulous and careful and the mistake I made was one of commission, not omission. Plus i had umpteen opportunities to pick the error up myself and didn't see it.
I've been trying to get organized for a couple of years now - I've been trying for what seems like forever to find ways to better control my workload so I don't get to the point of being overloaded and overwelmed. My therapist continually returns to the theme of "cutting back" and we make all sorts of plans that never get implemented. I work at a job where it's very difficult to regulate workloads and to maintain a consistent schedule and at a job where you're valued more if you're overly busy and workaholic-like. As a working mother, I've never been able to keep up that kind of pace, and periodic episodes of depression render me so ineffective. But at least (up til now) I've been able to tell myself that maybe I couldn't do as much or do things as quickly, but at least I could do things carefully. So much for that.
Mair
PS: Phil- on days like this I really wish i hadn't given up smoking. I consider smoking cessation (twice) to be like my greatest lifetime achievement. Also I think you're much too deep to have shallow relationships.
PPS: Dinah - You're right - it could have been worse. It can be fixed. My husband has been telling me this all night and trying to turn it into a big joke. That's all well and good except I know he'd be flipping out if it was his mistake.
Posted by Kar on May 17, 2002, at 22:29:06
In reply to Re: Mistakes we make (rambling) » mair, posted by paxvox on May 17, 2002, at 18:32:15
> As for your job, don't EVER quit. That's letting the "illness" beat you.
Paxvox- maybe be a little more sensitive when making statements such as this? I know you were trying to be supportive of Mair, but there are some of us out there who've HAD to stop working temporarily- not because the "illness has beaten us" but because we were no longer able to carry out the job consistently and/or effectively on a daily basis...
BTW Mair (and sorry to have diverged above), if you had to cut down your hours and your salary went below a certain amount, you might be able to get some S.S. disability while continuing to work...
Kar
Posted by Mair on May 17, 2002, at 23:02:08
In reply to Re: Mistakes we make (rambling) » paxvox, posted by Kar on May 17, 2002, at 22:29:06
Kar - I think pax was just responding to my situation - I'm obviously working. When I was far less functioning than I am now and just starting out on meds I used to drag myself into work everyday, close the door to my office and pretty much stare out the window for hours. I might get one small thing done. I certainly moved alot of papers around. I didn't want to stop working because that actually seemed to take more resolve and effort (I'd have had to get caught up and organized to leave) and I was a little afraid that then I would just sit home all day and make myself even more depressed. Now I question that decision - I think I paid a price for poor performance - both tangible and in terms of my own self image.
My therapist and I very briefly looked into the SS disability angle several months ago, and concluded that I wouldn't qualify, although I don't remember why we concluded that. I have a disability policy too but I don't think benefits kick in until I've been out of work for 30 days - it's not like I can't do my work - I just can't do it as effectively as I'd like, and it sure takes a toll. Were you able to get SS benefits? I've heard the process can be a real nightmare.
Mair
Posted by fi on May 18, 2002, at 5:11:33
In reply to It's not the drugs » paxvox, posted by Mair on May 17, 2002, at 21:39:29
I wanted to really stress that point, tho I know I'm not the first to say it. If they all quit work when that happened, there'd be *very* few people around in work!
The fact that you are aware of the importance of avoiding them may actually make you safer than most- think of the slapdash folk who dont notice or dont care...
And its also true that mistakes matter more in something like health profs.
So maybe dont give yourself *quite* such a hard time!?
Fi
Posted by NancyLee on May 18, 2002, at 6:32:59
In reply to Mistakes we make (rambling), posted by mair on May 17, 2002, at 18:01:50
I worked for years as a manic depressive without meds. Then on them. I actually had more problems on meds than when I worked without them.
The reason is I was more alert and cared about how my work came out and what the boss thought of me and my performance. Now I really don't care what is thought about me. I also feel sluggish at work now and many times couldn't keep up to the standards set by the employer. I would get frustated and quit.
I also someimes retreat into my mind and lose all sense of time and place. People would kind of get scared of me when this happens. I might even be talking to myself out loud when this happens so I don't think I can really work anymore. My therapist says I am a high functioning bipolar, so he doesn't think I would qualify for social security but I think I am going to apply and see what happens he said he would back me up.............thats it.......bye
Posted by Kar on May 18, 2002, at 7:17:06
In reply to In defense of paxvox » Kar, posted by Mair on May 17, 2002, at 23:02:08
> Kar - I think pax was just responding to my situation
Hey Mair- yeah, I think I'm super-sensitive about it; his post was supportive and encouraging, I know. I just never liked the idea of having to go on disability (talk about a blow to your ego, mister) and i think there's a real stigma that people are just giving in or giving up. I'm a speech pathologist and work with wee ones so I couldn't hide in my office unfortunately...was missing appointments and not able to provide the services that I needed to.
>both tangible and in terms of my own self image.
Ooh, I think that you really touch on something here. I'm not saying that *everything* is colored by your perception, but I know that when I was working and feeling fuzzy and stupid and ineffectual, some of the mistakes I was making and how I was feeling were going unnoticed. It's amazing what we can hide! Because you are obviously typically very productive and smart, you have high standards for yourself. When you start messing up (as I think someone said) you merely drop to the level of (gasp) normal and human. Which for now ain't that bad.
I don't know what your position is or how you feel about this, but I actually told my boss. Stigma be damned! She tried to make allowances wherever she could and for a little while, it really helped. I'm in kind of a touchy feeling field tho.
>it's not like I can't do my work
That's probably why you guys determined that you wouldn't qualify for SSDI. It's true; it's tough as hell. They ask you things like whether you can follow simple directions, get dressed, etc. Arggh- I could tie my shoes, but I still couldn't work! I ended up appealing (hadn't even gotten a lawyer yet) and got it! My therapist had spoken to the person handling my claim whom was forthcoming enough to tell us exactly what they look for when deciding on your case. Poof- a few weeks later I had a check. It ain't that easy for most tho. Something's gotta change with this system. Not likely with GW in office tho.Well I just can't shut up this morning. It's a cozy, rainy day here and I have nothing else to do.
I hope you're feeling better soon...things are looking up here (go Lamictal, go Lamictal!) so I hope to get back on my feet soon...thanks for your interest...
Take care
Kar
Posted by mair on May 18, 2002, at 13:59:07
In reply to Re: In defense of paxvox » Mair, posted by Kar on May 18, 2002, at 7:17:06
Thanks everyone for the words of encouragement. My husband tells me that this is no big deal - the mistake was caught, it can be fixed and I just end up looking stupid. My exacting superego is telling me that it's more serious than that - I guess I should try to settle for just stupid.
Mair
Posted by fi on May 19, 2002, at 13:25:20
In reply to Maybe someday I'll even find this amusing, posted by mair on May 18, 2002, at 13:59:07
He sounds a lot more realistic than that demoralising superego!
I've made some pretty awful mistakes at work in my time. I have vivid memories of the horrible feeling when you realise what you've done... But looking back on them, none caused anyone any harm or damage, and I bet no-one else even remembers them now.
Fi
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