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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by PhoenixGirl on April 8, 2001, at 11:07:44
I'm 23 and have had depression since I was 12. Ever since age 11 or 12, I have felt so utterly alone and alienated from other people. For most of the past ten years, I did not even have acquaintances, much less friend. As a result of having so little social development during those critical years, I have trouble even beginning a relationship with another person, platonic or otherwise.
I cannot describe in words this cold emptiness inside of me. I've been through many medicines and lots of therapy for my social phobia, which has helped but not enough. Every day for years I've had thoughts go through my head about me getting hurt or killed. All I want is closeness and love with other people. It tears my guts out when I see other people who are in love or having fun with friends. I know that I won'r survive if life keeps going on this way.
Posted by Mair on April 8, 2001, at 13:38:10
In reply to I am so alone, posted by PhoenixGirl on April 8, 2001, at 11:07:44
> Phoenix Girl - Have you already moved to Atlanta? Are these feelings worse because you're living in a strange place? Friendships have always been tough for me, also, but I have to say that platonic friendships with men weren't really possible for me until I was out of grad school and in the workplace. I just think there are fewer strictly social pressures and fewer of the expectations that sometimes doom a relationship. My relationship with my husband developed out of one of those platonic workplace friendships. I'm pretty sure the relationship would never have gotten anywhere if it started in the "dating" context. Also I think our lengthy pre-marital friendship has been something that's helped hold us together through some pretty rough times.
I'm sure this will sound really "yea-ish" (a "word" my children torment me with), but you might try volunteering at some places. I'd think you'd have alot you could offer in particular to kids who are going through what you went through. I'm sure there are tons of opportunities in a place like Atlanta, and you might find some like minded folks among other volunteers. Keep posting please. Mair (formerly ksvt)
Posted by Adam on April 8, 2001, at 14:27:24
In reply to I am so alone, posted by PhoenixGirl on April 8, 2001, at 11:07:44
It may be a difficult thing to do, but if you haven't, you might consider a cognative-behavioral therapy group. Social phobia responds well (in general) to cognative-behavioral type therapies, and group therapy using this modality can be especially helpful, so the research is telling us.
I think there are certain caveats to consider with group theray, not the least of which is the group is not meant to be a surrogate for a social circle. Your therapist, especially, must encourage you to be active both in the group and outside of it. Ultimately, you must leave it. Phobias and anxieties, as terrible as they are, need to be confronted to be conquered, and the toll that confrontation can take is not small. A group is a great means of support for that effort, as the participants know what you're going through. By offering encouragement in that setting, you might also find yourself repeating to yourself (and believing) the same kind things you would tell someone else: You CAN have healthy relationships, and you CAN find friendship and love.
What I cannot stress enough is this perfectly true statement will only convince you at a deep level if you experience it. Intellectualizing isn't sufficient. Logic is not the key. You will know by doing, and you may require no small amount of "convicing" to feel it. Like I said, it can be really hard. Change is just plain difficult, and it can take a long time. The key is to try anyway, and to brace yourself for the failures and the discomfort. And to have some support. Perhaps most importantly, to have some support. Thus the benefit of the group.
> I'm 23 and have had depression since I was 12. Ever since age 11 or 12, I have felt so utterly alone and alienated from other people. For most of the past ten years, I did not even have acquaintances, much less friend. As a result of having so little social development during those critical years, I have trouble even beginning a relationship with another person, platonic or otherwise.
> I cannot describe in words this cold emptiness inside of me. I've been through many medicines and lots of therapy for my social phobia, which has helped but not enough. Every day for years I've had thoughts go through my head about me getting hurt or killed. All I want is closeness and love with other people. It tears my guts out when I see other people who are in love or having fun with friends. I know that I won'r survive if life keeps going on this way.
Posted by Wendy B on April 8, 2001, at 15:09:21
In reply to Re: I am so alone, posted by Adam on April 8, 2001, at 14:27:24
Dear Phoenix,
Adam's advice about group therapy is great - and so eloquently expressed. It sounds like the best thing.
Also, though, you say you have tried many medicines, what were they? Meds are changing all the time, there are different combinations... What is your prescribing doc? A psychiatrist? A psychologist? A social worker/individual therapist? Maybe you need to try another route for meds, I think another opinion would be in order. If your dr isn't trying to help you allay some of those distressing symptoms, then I think you need another doctor.
The answers to these questions might help some of us try to help you more. Keep posting to this board. There are many people who can help you talk about it. Most of them better educated about social phobia than I am.
I always think posting to this board is like writing letters, it's another way to talk. Perhaps it feels safer to you - I hope so.
My very best to you,
Wendy> > I'm 23 and have had depression since I was 12. Ever since age 11 or 12, I have felt so utterly alone and alienated from other people. For most of the past ten years, I did not even have acquaintances, much less friend. As a result of having so little social development during those critical years, I have trouble even beginning a relationship with another person, platonic or otherwise.
> > I cannot describe in words this cold emptiness inside of me. I've been through many medicines and lots of therapy for my social phobia, which has helped but not enough. Every day for years I've had thoughts go through my head about me getting hurt or killed. All I want is closeness and love with other people. It tears my guts out when I see other people who are in love or having fun with friends. I know that I won'r survive if life keeps going on this way.
Posted by ShelliR on April 8, 2001, at 16:37:53
In reply to I am so alone, posted by PhoenixGirl on April 8, 2001, at 11:07:44
Phoenux Girl. Is there anything you enjoy doing that you could join a group or a club to do. Something like hiking or any kind of sport, or yoga or dance?
When I was about your age I started taking dance classes, got really into it, then got a working scholarship which meant I had to be there once a week to sign people in and take tickets at all the performances. Mostly I focused very very hard on the dance part (not at all on the social part), but gradually, just being around the same people for so long, we started going out for coffee, and doing other things together and I made some really good friends. For me the key was that I wasn't trying to make friends, just trying to get really good at dance. If I had gone to make friends I don't think I would have been able to, and I would have just felt disappointed and a failure.
So maybe do something you might enjoy anyway, focus on that, and be open to the possiblity that friendships may happen at some time.
FWIW, Shelli
Posted by sar on April 8, 2001, at 17:09:12
In reply to Re: I am so alone » PhoenixGirl, posted by ShelliR on April 8, 2001, at 16:37:53
Dear PhoenixGirl,
Hi. I'm right with all of the previous posts--there's some great advice-- but I'm gonna throw in my 2 cents because I'm the same age as you and have also felt depression since age 12 or so. I was diagnosed with sp at 19.
I'm curious to know about your living situation and if you work or not. A couple of things that have helped me were living in a dorm-style situation (are you in college?) and getting jobs that required me to interact with people (waitressing and working at a coffeeshop). Drawing myself away from theory and into actual practice (like what Adams is talking about) has been hard on me, but I don't think anything else would have so successfully helped me learn to make small talk, smile more easily, joke with people, and trust them more--I used to have this terrible feeling that everyone hated me upon meeting me and it (along with sp) kept me from opening up to them. Social anxiety is still a thorn in my side (I've tried therapy, Paxil, and Effexor) but it seems like I have more friends and aquaintances now that I (after lots of exhausting real-life on-my-own practice) have improved the way I interact with people. Oh--another thing--when I moved into the dormstyle situation (at age 19)I felt so scared and shy that I could hardly talk at all, and what I ended up doing was *a lot* of observing and listening, kinda like an informal study on how people converse.
I don't know if you can relate to any of this but I hope it helped in some way...please post and let us know how you're doing.
irie,
sar
Posted by Dubya on April 8, 2001, at 21:30:37
In reply to I am so alone, posted by PhoenixGirl on April 8, 2001, at 11:07:44
I've been there.
I am 20/male, haven't had friends, perhaps only 3 or 4 and have ummm never been able to make new ones. Never ever had a date or a girlfriend. It hurts me to see others in love yet, if it is one of my friends, I feel happy. I also feel heart broken when I see others (strangers) having fun when I am alone. I always feel as if I've screwed up or let people down when they sulk or complain, etc. If I could, I would be your friend PhoenixGirl, I know most of the feelings you've described, I've probably experienced them before.
Posted by PhoenixGirl on April 9, 2001, at 17:06:08
In reply to :-( I hope u feel better PhoenixGirl, I've been th, posted by Dubya on April 8, 2001, at 21:30:37
Hi you guys. Thanks for your supportive words, it helps warm up the cold spot that sits in the middle of me. This message below turned out kind of long, but I hope you'll read it. I'll try to answer the questions that people have asked. I moved around many times growing up, which worsened my isolation and social phobia. Since I moved around so much, I had to change psychiatrists and counselors frequently, and that wasn't good because they didn't get to know me well enough and it broke up the continuity of my treatment (different docs had different styles). The drugs I've taken, in order, are imipramine (3 years, did not work well), zoloft (gave it a fair trial), effexor (hurt my stomach very bad), luvox (fair trial), anafranil (three years, did not work, side effect hell), serzone (stomach pain), trazadone (stomach pain), celexa (did not work, side effect hell), remeron (did not work well, and too much weight gain), and wellbutrin and desipramine. Also augmented with lithium and levothroid. Right now I'm on desipramine, wellbutrin, and levothroid. They do not work well enough, no AD ever has, but this combination works somewhat better than the others. By the way, I also tried some of the ones I listed in combination as well as alone. Most of them cause bad side effects for me, especially sexual dysfunction. The dysfunction has caused me so much distress that I won't use an AD that causes it any worse than desipramine. Desipramine causes it too, but it's about half as bad as the others. Wellbutrin has no antidepressant effect on me, but I take it to stay awake during the day. I don't know if the levothroid is helping, but I have less cold intolerance on it (before levothroid my t4 reading was 4 when the minimum in normal range is 4.5). Anyway, I am looking hard for a doctor who will help me experiment with nontraditional meds, like mirapex, anticonvulsants, or stimulants. I feel that doctors have failed me because I am still so depressed, and some of them let me go for several years on a drug that did not work well and tortured me with side effects.
Well that was a long answer. But the meds are important. I have a biological illness, because I can get depressed for no reason, get very very depressed when I try to taper off meds, have several mentally ill family members including bipolar mom and depressed sister.
Here's my living situation: I just moved to Atlanta about two months ago, and am working a government job that is boring to me. But, it pays me 30k a year and provides me with very good health insurance, which I need to fight my illness. My coworkers are mostly older than me and have little in common with me. I live in a studio apartment by myself. I am still in the process of finding a good doctor and therapist, and have met some new people. I met a girl while looking for a roommate, and she has introduced me to other people. We got in a fight yesterday though, and I have a tendency to get very angry at people and damage relationships.
I actually have done the cognitive-behavioral group therapy a couple of years ago, and it was very helpful. The social phobia I have now is actually much less than what I used to have, which was absolutely crippling. I may need to do that therapy some more though. I am putting forth an effort to meet people -- I'm going to take an evening discussion class on politics and culture and things, which I'm interested in, and hope to meet other people who are too. I find that one of the best ways to make more friends is to tap into one friend's network of other friends.
I'm working on all this, but it's hard because my depressions come over me and keep me from being enjoyable to be around, and keeping me from going out at all sometimes.
Well I'm trying to think of what other facts I can mention about me. My dad is a critical military man, a pessimist, and used to call me a "social invalid". He told me that I would never make it in life if I didn't change, which made the anxiety worse. He instilled an insecurity inside of me and a voice of self-doubt. He loves me, and he doesn't know how much he's harmed me. He thinks that applying negativity and fear to a person will make them change.
Anyway, I often get so depressed that I fantasize about being killed, cutting myself up, shooting myself in the head. Every day for years I have fantasies about getting hurt and having others care that I got hurt. It's sick, but I've had it for so long that I forget it's not normal. I know that I am worth knowing, but people don't get to know me because I subconsciously put on a front and censor myself. One of the worst feelings I have is that I'm losing my youth. My youth ended at age 12, and I fear that I will not be able to enjoy these young years ever. I can't get back the past 11 years that I lost, but I don't want to lose any more years. Thanks for reading.
Posted by PhoenixGirl on April 9, 2001, at 17:08:44
In reply to I am so alone, posted by PhoenixGirl on April 8, 2001, at 11:07:44
Hi Dubya. I know what you're going through. Do you want to email? My email address is d_attebury@hotmail.com.
> I'm 23 and have had depression since I was 12. Ever since age 11 or 12, I have felt so utterly alone and alienated from other people. For most of the past ten years, I did not even have acquaintances, much less friend. As a result of having so little social development during those critical years, I have trouble even beginning a relationship with another person, platonic or otherwise.
> I cannot describe in words this cold emptiness inside of me. I've been through many medicines and lots of therapy for my social phobia, which has helped but not enough. Every day for years I've had thoughts go through my head about me getting hurt or killed. All I want is closeness and love with other people. It tears my guts out when I see other people who are in love or having fun with friends. I know that I won'r survive if life keeps going on this way.
Posted by Pari on April 11, 2001, at 0:01:43
In reply to I am so alone, posted by PhoenixGirl on April 8, 2001, at 11:07:44
You have friends here P-Girl. Can you feel the love?
Posted by Icredes on June 24, 2001, at 22:37:55
In reply to Re: I am so alone » PhoenixGirl, posted by Mair on April 8, 2001, at 13:38:10
I know how you fell....Here is a little something that I wrote as a reflection of myself (I am 27 now)...
The Broken Child
The music started. the crowed gathered round and began to clap in unison with the rhythm of the music. People were dancing, hugging, laughing and having a good time. The music penetrated through the hearts and souls as they cheered and whistled in joy.But in a small corner in the venue sat a young child. He sat there with his knees upon his chest with his arms crossed around his knees. His eyes were glossy and red. People walked past, but did not see the boy. He couldn't help but sob. His sounds of sobbing were drowned out by the beauty of the music.
He saw the joy of the people around him, but this was the only emotion he knew. The music was so beautiful as it flowed through his body, vibrating the bones inside of his body.
He watched in pain as he saw the joy in everyone's eyes. He wanted so much to feel the joy around him, but he did not know how. Seeing the joy around him only intensified his sadness. He could only cry. It was the only response he knew as he though to himself everything that he had not. The love he knew he could not experience. It consumed him as the tears scattered along and around his eyes.
Little did he know, the song was meant for him to hear. The song was singing out. "You know my sadness, You know my pain. Light this fire in me, Light this fire again." He wanted so badly for God to lift him up, to light the fire inside of him so he could experience all that he could not. The fire had been put out so long ago, he could not remember.
He sat there sobbing as the song went on, and when it was over he raised his head and looked up.
This is the end of the thread.
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