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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 48. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Rainwoman on November 1, 2000, at 8:18:08
Good Day All! (At least I hope it is!)
I was wondering, since the holidays are bearing down on us, and since depression can be unbearable during these times, I was wondering if any of you had plans to get through them. I'm especially curious, since during my no food for you destructive depressive phase, I was not only denying myself food, I was planning on leaving this earth on thanksgiving(which is also my b-day). My thinking was, by starving myself in the weeks leading up, I would be so weak that my "plan" would not take very long at all. Good thing I came out of that hell in a headbasket, huh?
Anyway, since it is so painful for me, and I don't have family to go visit, I am planning on volunteerig my morning at the homeless shelter community dinner. I also now have plans to visit my friend's family, and quite possible, the new beau! I'm not backing down on the volunteering though. For some reason, I really have this need to do it. Maybe just to be a part of something so big and special.
So what are you all doing? Anyone in the same boat as me familywise?
Michele
Posted by coral on November 1, 2000, at 9:17:57
In reply to Plans for getting through the holidays?, posted by Rainwoman on November 1, 2000, at 8:18:08
Dear Rainwoman,
Oh, my . . . yes, the holidays. Blick. The Grinch is my hero. I don't know why you don't have family to visit so my story may not apply at all. Three years ago, the ugliest of the ugly family fights ensued (only verbal, but that was enough), my husband and I just left. After thoroughly analyzing the pattern, I realized that my sister's attacks (she's BPD) on me had accelerated every holiday season for the past ten years. I realized I went home to be with my folks, and it was a habit. One parent is dead and the other one has been in a nursing home for five years, yet, each year, I'd trudge home for more abuse. Well . . . duhhh... I haven't been home for a holiday since. My sister keeps insisting that the fight is the cause, and I keep telling her it's the tension in our relationship that seems unresolvable. So, since then, my husband and I decide what we want to do and it's been so very liberating - and we've done everything from "doing nothing" to the full-blown dinner for his side of the family. I have NO idea what we're going to do this year but I'm not worried, because I'm NOT going to do anything that I don't want to do.
If you're drawn to the volunteering, do it!!!!!!!!! One day, I was aimlessly driving around and saw a rummage sale at a mission. I went in, and there was an old piano in the corner. I began playing, very softly. Pretty soon, lots of people gathered around and for three hours, we all sang our lungs out. It was one of the most uplifting experiences of my life.
CoralPS Yes, today is a good day! Hope yours is as well, Michele.
Posted by Rainwoman on November 1, 2000, at 9:56:26
In reply to Re: Plans for getting through the holidays?, posted by coral on November 1, 2000, at 9:17:57
> Dear Rainwoman,
>
> Oh, my . . . yes, the holidays. Blick. The Grinch is my hero. I don't know why you don't have family to visit so my story may not apply at all. Three years ago, the ugliest of the ugly family fights ensued (only verbal, but that was enough), my husband and I just left. After thoroughly analyzing the pattern, I realized that my sister's attacks (she's BPD) on me had accelerated every holiday season for the past ten years. I realized I went home to be with my folks, and it was a habit. One parent is dead and the other one has been in a nursing home for five years, yet, each year, I'd trudge home for more abuse. Well . . . duhhh... I haven't been home for a holiday since. My sister keeps insisting that the fight is the cause, and I keep telling her it's the tension in our relationship that seems unresolvable. So, since then, my husband and I decide what we want to do and it's been so very liberating - and we've done everything from "doing nothing" to the full-blown dinner for his side of the family. I have NO idea what we're going to do this year but I'm not worried, because I'm NOT going to do anything that I don't want to do.
> If you're drawn to the volunteering, do it!!!!!!!!! One day, I was aimlessly driving around and saw a rummage sale at a mission. I went in, and there was an old piano in the corner. I began playing, very softly. Pretty soon, lots of people gathered around and for three hours, we all sang our lungs out. It was one of the most uplifting experiences of my life.
> Coral
>
> PS Yes, today is a good day! Hope yours is as well, Michele.Actually, Coral, your story does kind of apply. I have a small immediate family. My father recently moved out of the area, however, he is in the area for the holidays. I don't see him. The reason being that I confronted him about the fact that i was abused by my mother for so many years, and he didn't do a damn thing about it. That made me feel so insignificant all those years, and I still do. Anyway, my brother confronted him on a couple things also. My father's attitude is that you NEVER address a parent like that, and how dare we question the way we were raised and he hasn't spoken to us since. Wait, I take that back. Last year at a gathering at my aunt's house for christmas, I walked up to him and said I was sorry that our relationship was the way it was. He said in front of everybody that that wasn't good enough and left. Not a peep since. My brother goes to his wife's families' house, and my aunt only does the big get together for Christmas. So, that leaves me alone. So, I guess it may be similar in some ways!
I'm not too sure why I am so interested in volunteering. Maybe someone else knows. I think may be also that I can't make things better in my family, but that doesn't mean I can't try to make something better somewhere else. Maybe I just want to feel worthwile. I could maybe ask my therapist, but he seems to have blown town.
Thanks for replying and it's a pretty good day for me also!
Michele
Posted by R.Anne on November 1, 2000, at 15:17:27
In reply to Re: Plans for getting through the holidays?, posted by Rainwoman on November 1, 2000, at 9:56:26
> > Dear Rainwoman,
> >
> > Oh, my . . . yes, the holidays. Blick. The Grinch is my hero. I don't know why you don't have family to visit so my story may not apply at all. Three years ago, the ugliest of the ugly family fights ensued (only verbal, but that was enough), my husband and I just left. After thoroughly analyzing the pattern, I realized that my sister's attacks (she's BPD) on me had accelerated every holiday season for the past ten years. I realized I went home to be with my folks, and it was a habit. One parent is dead and the other one has been in a nursing home for five years, yet, each year, I'd trudge home for more abuse. Well . . . duhhh... I haven't been home for a holiday since. My sister keeps insisting that the fight is the cause, and I keep telling her it's the tension in our relationship that seems unresolvable. So, since then, my husband and I decide what we want to do and it's been so very liberating - and we've done everything from "doing nothing" to the full-blown dinner for his side of the family. I have NO idea what we're going to do this year but I'm not worried, because I'm NOT going to do anything that I don't want to do.
> > If you're drawn to the volunteering, do it!!!!!!!!! One day, I was aimlessly driving around and saw a rummage sale at a mission. I went in, and there was an old piano in the corner. I began playing, very softly. Pretty soon, lots of people gathered around and for three hours, we all sang our lungs out. It was one of the most uplifting experiences of my life.
> > Coral
> >
> > PS Yes, today is a good day! Hope yours is as well, Michele.
>
> Actually, Coral, your story does kind of apply. I have a small immediate family. My father recently moved out of the area, however, he is in the area for the holidays. I don't see him. The reason being that I confronted him about the fact that i was abused by my mother for so many years, and he didn't do a damn thing about it. That made me feel so insignificant all those years, and I still do. Anyway, my brother confronted him on a couple things also. My father's attitude is that you NEVER address a parent like that, and how dare we question the way we were raised and he hasn't spoken to us since. Wait, I take that back. Last year at a gathering at my aunt's house for christmas, I walked up to him and said I was sorry that our relationship was the way it was. He said in front of everybody that that wasn't good enough and left. Not a peep since. My brother goes to his wife's families' house, and my aunt only does the big get together for Christmas. So, that leaves me alone. So, I guess it may be similar in some ways!
>
> I'm not too sure why I am so interested in volunteering. Maybe someone else knows. I think may be also that I can't make things better in my family, but that doesn't mean I can't try to make something better somewhere else. Maybe I just want to feel worthwile. I could maybe ask my therapist, but he seems to have blown town.
> Thanks for replying and it's a pretty good day for me also!
> Michele********
Hi!
Sounds like a great idea to do the volunteering. Perhaps I should look into the same thing. As the holidays I approach I was thinking about locking myself in a closet until they are over! I dread them because I, too, have no where to go this year. Family problems, too. I think I may spend a lot of time in bed-I happen to like it there! The volunteer thing sounds good, though, and I'm sure it will help you get through them.
Posted by Noa on November 1, 2000, at 16:41:41
In reply to Plans for getting through the holidays?, posted by Rainwoman on November 1, 2000, at 8:18:08
Great idea about the volunteering! Make sure to choose something you will feel comfortable enough doing. I find volunteer work often (not always) really gets me out of myself and gives me a bit of perspective.
Another type of place that could use help, I think (call to ask) are the poorest, run down, public general hospitals---the childrens units. Some of those kids get no visitors because their parents are so overwhelmed and don't come to see them. Warning, tho: it is hard to leave them afterward.
Posted by Noa on November 1, 2000, at 16:43:15
In reply to Re: Plans for getting through the holidays?, posted by coral on November 1, 2000, at 9:17:57
One day, I was aimlessly driving around and saw a rummage sale at a mission. I went in, and there was an old piano in the corner. I began playing, very softly. Pretty soon, lots of people gathered around and for three hours, we all sang our lungs out. It was one of the most uplifting experiences of my life.
Wow.
Posted by Noa on November 1, 2000, at 16:46:34
In reply to Re: Plans for getting through the holidays?, posted by R.Anne on November 1, 2000, at 15:17:27
I just was talking to a friend the other day about her finding an alternative to going "home" for more abuse. It is a hard transition to make--to stop going back to be mistreated and start creating your own holiday traditions, or seeking out friends as "family".
When I lived in another city, they had a great program where you delivered festive holiday meals to older people. I used to go with a freind and it was so much fun. One year, my friend really hit it off with this one lady and she started visiting her on a monthly basis after that. The lady was really interesting and fun to be with, but was really shut in, and was quite vulnerable to all kinds of tv and mail scams.
Posted by shar on November 1, 2000, at 19:35:53
In reply to Plans for getting through the holidays?, posted by Rainwoman on November 1, 2000, at 8:18:08
I think, given how stressed I am, I will just let the holidays happen as usual with the family (verbal digs, keeping secrets, telling secrets, psychotic breaks, planned escapes, etc.).
If I had an invite and the $$ to go out of town I would. But, part of my role is intervening for the kids, so I hate to give that up sort of. Even though the kids are all in their 20's now.
Usually there is at least one big dramatic moment. Maybe I'll set up a time out room where people can go and be left alone.
And, take my sleep meds at 7:30 pm.
Shar
Posted by allisonm on November 1, 2000, at 20:57:07
In reply to Plans for getting through the holidays?, posted by Rainwoman on November 1, 2000, at 8:18:08
Good question. I've had no family to celebrate holidays with for two years now. My dad is the only one left and he doesn't really know how to celebrate holidays -- they have always been another day in the year for him. I always celebrated with my mom and husband and his family, but that's over. So it's either leaving town to be by myself someplace restful, or trying to celebrate with a father who doesn't know how. Not much to look forward to. I'd leave town but I did that last year and got a lot of grief for it. I don't know whether I can get away with it this year. It's on the list of things to talk about in therapy. Meantime, I am anxious to get all of my Christmas shopping done asap I think in a vein attempt to will the holiday away. It won't work, but that doesn't make the anxiety go away.
Posted by Ted on November 1, 2000, at 21:44:23
In reply to Re: Plans for getting through the holidays?, posted by allisonm on November 1, 2000, at 20:57:07
Hi Allison,
> I'd leave town but I did that last year and
> got a lot of grief for it.I have a friend who does both. He plans to be with relatives for 1/2 day on the holiday in question (xmas or thanksgiving or easter...) and then takes off. He always has plans with someone in another town, so he has a good excuse to escape quickly.
Ted
Posted by Ted on November 1, 2000, at 21:56:20
In reply to Plans for getting through the holidays?, posted by Rainwoman on November 1, 2000, at 8:18:08
This thread brought up a funny memory. My sister does *lots* of travelling for work. On her 40th birthday, 6 years ago, she was in our hometown and our mother took her out for the day. First they went to a movie. My sister wanted popcorn, and our mother complained it was too expensive at movie theaters. My sister said she would buy it. then our mother complained that it would only make her thirsty. My sister said she would get a soda and did. Our mother said it would just make her have to go to the bathroom. My sister said she has been doing that on her own for at least 35 years and can handle it herself. After the movie, our mother asked what my sister wanted to do next. My sister replied, "Go rollerblading!" Our mother said "40 year old women don't go rollerblading." My sister said "This one does" and left at that minute to go home (her home, different state). Whenever my sister has visited our hometown, for business or pleasure, she never stays with our parents or even tells them she is coming. At most, she shows up unexpected for dinner then makes an excuse and disappears.
Funny thing (?) though... my relationship with our mother was worse than my sister's.
Oh well....
Take care of yourselves everyone. It is not worth the grief or high blood pressure to worry about such things. If the home is abusive, avoid it. And volunteering is a GREAT idea. You might even find a nice significant other as well!
Ted
Posted by Rainwoman on November 2, 2000, at 11:16:53
In reply to Re: Plans for getting through the holidays?, posted by R.Anne on November 1, 2000, at 15:17:27
> >
> Hi!
> Sounds like a great idea to do the volunteering. Perhaps I should look into the same thing. As the holidays I approach I was thinking about locking myself in a closet until they are over! I dread them because I, too, have no where to go this year. Family problems, too. I think I may spend a lot of time in bed-I happen to like it there! The volunteer thing sounds good, though, and I'm sure it will help you get through them.
Ya know,This is just an idea, and it probably had already been mentioned, but is there a chat room some where around here? I ask, because maybe for those of us interested, we can all get together at a designated time in one and have sort of an online celebration(or support sessions, if it turns out!) at designated times. Kind of a psycho pity party! Just a suggestion. Feedback?
Michele
Posted by Nibor on November 2, 2000, at 17:07:34
In reply to Re: Plans for getting through the holidays?, posted by Rainwoman on November 2, 2000, at 11:16:53
I just put up a two-part article on Holiday Blues and Winter Depression (URL below). Check it out and let me know what you think--either here or through the Guestbook. Any other suggestions for articles or additions to the site will be cheerfully accepted.
Take care,
Nibor
Posted by noa on November 2, 2000, at 17:14:09
In reply to Re: Plans for getting through the holidays?, posted by Rainwoman on November 2, 2000, at 11:16:53
well, there is a chat function at eGroups, but I don't know if the psycho-babble-tips egroup includes chatting. Dr. Bob?
Posted by noa on November 2, 2000, at 17:15:48
In reply to Re: Plans for getting through the holidays?, posted by Rainwoman on November 2, 2000, at 11:16:53
there appears to be a chatability at pbt, but my computer doesn't have Java enabled, so I am not sure.
BTW, anyone know how I can enable Java? Or is it something my employer has to want to do?
Posted by noa on November 2, 2000, at 17:17:12
In reply to Avoiding family, posted by Ted on November 1, 2000, at 21:56:20
Sounds like your sister has learned to move on and take care of herself, recognizing that Mom may never change.
Posted by noa on November 2, 2000, at 17:20:01
In reply to Avoiding family, posted by Ted on November 1, 2000, at 21:56:20
Also, how striking it is how your mother says one thing and does another. Saying she is taking your sister out for her birthday and then repeatedly sending the message she wasn't worth any of these little expenses. I admire your sister's ability to just go ahead and give herself what she needs, despite your mother's behavior.
Posted by shar on November 2, 2000, at 18:07:29
In reply to Re: Avoiding family--ps, posted by noa on November 2, 2000, at 17:20:01
I am in another e-group and have had bad luck getting logged into the chats that have occurred. I'm signed on and everything, but the chat screen just says "loading applet" or something for like an hour. Usually I give up after that.
I've tried it at other random times, and gotten right on. But, for all the scheduled chats except one I couldn't get on.
Shar
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 2, 2000, at 18:44:36
In reply to Re: Plans for getting through the holidays?, posted by noa on November 2, 2000, at 17:14:09
> well, there is a chat function at eGroups, but I don't know if the psycho-babble-tips egroup includes chatting.
OK, let's give this a shot. I just created yet another eGroup, psycho-babble-open:
http://www.egroups.com/group/psycho-babble-open
PBO, unlike PBT, has an open membership, so anyone can join and chat -- or create or vote on polls.
FYI, I've turned off Post (except I'm supposed to be able to post announcements myself), since people can "post" here, and Links, since that's what PBT is for.
Bob
Posted by noa on November 2, 2000, at 19:35:53
In reply to Re: new eGroup for live chat (and polls), posted by Dr. Bob on November 2, 2000, at 18:44:36
Thanks.
Posted by ksvt on November 2, 2000, at 20:14:36
In reply to Re: Plans for getting through the holidays?, posted by allisonm on November 1, 2000, at 20:57:07
Please indulge this story of my own holiday (t-giving) dilemma, and tell me if I'm being small minded and ridiculous. For the last several years, any of my family members within hailing distance come to my house for dinner or to my brother's house - he also lives in my area. T-giving is probably my favorite meal to cook, I do it with relative ease, as things go, and I'm much happier not having to travel. This year, my 80 year old father has decreed that t-giving dinner should be held at his house, which is about 2 hours away. He, has done this, says my stepmother, not out of a desire not to travel, but rather out of a sense of nostalgia for a time when all of his kids would be there for a dinner hosted by my parents. The problem is that only 2 of the 5 siblings live close enough to go, my parents got divorced about 20 years ago, and my stepmother hates to entertain and hates to cook. She gets very nervous when there are a lot of guests, in fact most of my siblings and spouses pretty much pledged a few years ago never to eat another meal there because it made her miserable and she made us feel miserable. My father, in his myopic way, is oblivious for the strain this puts on her. She has inferred that this is not her choice at all. If the 2 of them come to my house, they'll drive over and stay the night. No one who would be going to their house, has the job or school flexibility to do anything other than drive over for the day. Therefore, his plan puts 9 people in 3 different cars on the road at night, 7 of them, over some very curvy mountainous roads. My children, who are 12 and 15, will drop in front of the TV as soon as they walk in his house because there is really nothing for them to do there, and they will only emerge for dinner. My brother and sister in law will have to spend the entire time following their 1 year old around because the house is not child proof in a major way. My father, very much out of the blue, wrote each of my children letters recently in which he expressed his strong preference that we travel to his house for dinner. Since he's written them each about 1 or 2 other letters in their lifetimes, I found this to be very manipulative. I have some pretty major problems with him so I don't trust my instincts on this at all. I vacillate between resenting the hell out of him for even creating this problem, to feeling extraordinarily guilty about being such an ungreatful child and thinking this is no big deal. My brother thinks it is no big deal to just say no to him. I have a tougher time. I can't talk to my husband about this because he's made it clear that he'll be very unhappy if we indulge this wish - he, too, hates to travel, gets bored silly in my dad's house and can't stand listening to my step mother banging dishes in the kitchen because she thinks people are lingering at the table too long. Any advice? Thanks ksvt >
Good question. I've had no family to celebrate holidays with for two years now. My dad is the only one left and he doesn't really know how to celebrate holidays -- they have always been another day in the year for him. I always celebrated with my mom and husband and his family, but that's over. So it's either leaving town to be by myself someplace restful, or trying to celebrate with a father who doesn't know how. Not much to look forward to. I'd leave town but I did that last year and got a lot of grief for it. I don't know whether I can get away with it this year. It's on the list of things to talk about in therapy. Meantime, I am anxious to get all of my Christmas shopping done asap I think in a vein attempt to will the holiday away. It won't work, but that doesn't make the anxiety go away.
Posted by R.Anne on November 3, 2000, at 17:26:44
In reply to Re: Plans for getting through the holidays?, posted by Rainwoman on November 2, 2000, at 11:16:53
>
> Ya know,
>
> This is just an idea, and it probably had already been mentioned, but is there a chat room some where around here? I ask, because maybe for those of us interested, we can all get together at a designated time in one and have sort of an online celebration(or support sessions, if it turns out!) at designated times. Kind of a psycho pity party! Just a suggestion. Feedback?
>
> Michele*****
That's not a bad idea. I'm thinking of going away for the holidays now and don't know as of yet if I'll be around for the chat but I'll see....
Posted by Maniz on November 3, 2000, at 18:04:30
In reply to Re: new eGroup for live chat (and polls), posted by Dr. Bob on November 2, 2000, at 18:44:36
Hi,
When is the chat functioning?.
Is there a schedule?.
I tried it but nobody was there.
Thanks
> > well, there is a chat function at eGroups, but I don't know if the psycho-babble-tips egroup includes chatting.
>
> OK, let's give this a shot. I just created yet another eGroup, psycho-babble-open:
>
> http://www.egroups.com/group/psycho-babble-open
>
> PBO, unlike PBT, has an open membership, so anyone can join and chat -- or create or vote on polls.
>
> FYI, I've turned off Post (except I'm supposed to be able to post announcements myself), since people can "post" here, and Links, since that's what PBT is for.
>
> Bob
Posted by S. Howard on November 4, 2000, at 21:45:38
In reply to Re: Avoiding family--ps, posted by noa on November 2, 2000, at 17:20:01
Dear Darling Son and That Person You Married;Merry Christmas to you, and please don't worry. I'm just fine, considering I can barely breathe.
The important thing is that you have a nice holiday, thousands of miles away from your ill mother. I've sent along my last ten dollars in this card, which I hope you'll spend on my grandchildren. God knows their mother never buys them anything nice.
Thank you so much for the birthday flowers, dear. I put them in the freezer so they'll stay fresh
for my grave. I'm sure it won't be long, but don't give a second thought to attending my funeral. I'm sure that person you live with would never allow you to attend. I'll bet she never even watched the videotape I sent you of my hemorrhoid operation.
Well, beloved son, it's my bedtime. Since I lost my cane beating off muggers last week, I usually fall two or three times on my way to the bedroom, but don't you worry about me. I'm getting used to the cold floor, since my heat has been turned off, and the frost on my bed helps to numb the constant pain. Don't you even think about sending me any more money, because I know you need it for those expensive family vacations you take every year. Give my love to the grandbabies and my regards to whatsherface, the blond with the black roots, who stole you screaming from my bosom.
Merry Christmas,
Love, Mom
Posted by Emmanuela on November 4, 2000, at 23:30:37
In reply to Re: new eGroup for live chat (and polls), posted by Dr. Bob on November 2, 2000, at 18:44:36
Any further info re: psychobabble chat in egroups? I've been getting the message 'Applet ChatApplet can't start: error'.
Thanks
Emmanuela
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