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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by laural on October 20, 2000, at 4:09:58
Hi everybody—
I know I've been writing a lot lately and I'm going to tone it down after this last post other than offering other advice but please let me get this off my chest--
I wanted to write about something that is frankly scaring me to death. I am really in love with my boyfriend and I know he loves me very much, as I am right now. He is very moral and just and kind and wonderful and hates it when I talk about how ugly I was in the past (ie, judgement calls and personality, my drug history, suicide etc). It’s like he loves me but he doesn’t want to know everything I am capable of or wants to pretend that its all behind me. My past is something that is very much a part of me, not so much that it is who I am but that I could become that person again if I relapse. I know he wants the best for me, and tries to push me to achieve my potential with career, hobbies, friends, and school. But I have to wonder how he might react to a relapse—would he stick with me? I want to pressure him to marry me because I’ve noticed that people who love each other sometimes need an excuse to take care of the other by means of saying "well, they ARE family". But of course I don’t want to impose myself onto someone else. Most married people have been that way for a while before any kind of chronic illness arises but with me, people have to automatically commit before we have any kind of history together. I worry about what’s going to happen to me when my mother dies—if I will have become independent by then. I know he wants to marry me, he’s told me, and we ARE soul mates, best friends. But somehow I can’t talk to him about this. I wrote him a letter and he sort of didn’t really respond to me, although I’m not sure what he could have said. What if we drift apart because he can’t bring himself to marry tainted material? I know I know, it wasn’t meant to be, but you know, I don’t think anything is really meant to be. I want to know how I can try to educate him without force, as I think he just might be really scared about what this might entail. First, scared about what my diagnosis really is and then being in a way somewhat responsible in detecting signs and symptoms and offering support. I don’t just want anybody for security reasons, I want to spend the rest of my life with my best friend. But it just makes me wonder, if my best friend can’t commit could I even expect anyone ELSE to? I almost wish we weren't living together so that things could go more slowly but its hard to slow down once things are to this point. And its maybe not the marriage thing that bothers me so much but the apathy toward my disease. . . maybe marriage is just a symbol of comittment for me (and I think rightly so, but maybe it doesn't have to be the ultimate committment right now, just acceptance of all of me. . .)
BTW, we’ve been together almost 2 years and knew each other for years before that. We’ve lived together for almost as long, but next fall he’ll be going to law school and I’m thinking that I should stay here, as this is where my mother and doc live and my mother IS family, if you know what I mean . . . should I be moving on? I don't want to, ever. I know this is the right man for me. laural
Posted by shar on October 20, 2000, at 12:07:15
In reply to hi everybody, posted by laural on October 20, 2000, at 4:09:58
Hi, Laural.
I seem to have a tendency to be blunt, and it's not on purpose, so if I seem too blunt, please do not take it as a criticism of you--just a lack of social skills on my part.
I am (at 48) learning about relationships, even the kind that touch one's heart. So--a few general comments. I really thought your post was insightful and very expressive about your struggle. That kind of self awareness is very valuable.
I also read you making a lot of predictions, absolutes, mind-reading, etc. Those are usually undercover kind of thoughts (not shared with one's partner) and are not always helpful. If you predict what will happen, you can keep yourself out of the here and now where you have a chance to really learn what happens. Mind-reading, it can be so off base. I am not being critical of you, but I've had people say to me I look mad when I'm just fine, and I bet you've had similar experiences. A good thing to give up in a relationship is mind-reading; or at least check it out: You look mad to me, are you?
The most important thing that exists is a relationship, and will assist it's depth and longevity is accepting each other's differences. First, acknowledging you all don't have to (and won't) think alike on all topics. Then, learning where your differences occur as they come up. And, letting each other be different, or have different opinions. And having that be acceptable and ok, not just tolerable.
That, of course, leads to the need for compromise in relationships. There will be some differences that don't really call for compromise (like he votes for A and you vote for B). But, some differences will call for you all to reach a compromise about certain things, willingly, in order for your relationship to continue.
Compromise may not be possible on all issues, in which case there are decisions to make. However, I believe if you know each other pretty well, you'd already know if there were issues upon which you could not or would not compromise. It is a joint venture. Not just one person compromising all the time.
Ok, that's differences, compromise, and next is disappointment. You two are going to disappoint each other because you are human. He will not always be able to give you what you need in a "picture perfect" way. (I've had to work a lot on this one.) If you have a picture of what you want his response to be, you will almost always be let down because he probably won't have exactly the response you have in mind.
The tragic part to this, is that if you have a picture of what you want, you aren't "present" for what he does give. He may give you a response that meets some of your needs or wants, but not all. In that case, you may be disappointed, AND get something out of it at the same time. So often in our society, not getting exactly what one wants is considered a tragedy and can lead to distance between people.
In communicating, if you tell him what you want, and he tells you what he wants (for yourselves, not how you want your partner to change) you will have a wealth of knowledge about each other, and be in tune. You may not like what you hear one day, and really like what you hear the next. For example, you want him to learn about how you can be if you have a relapse. You could tell him that. You want to know if he thinks you are tainted goods. He may not want to participate in learning about that. Maybe there is a compromise. Maybe he knows more than you realize; that you will need his help if you relapse (tho it's hard to predict the future). Maybe not.
If something is important to you, saying so will be so helpful. Same for him. You may have opposite views, but you will know where you both stand. It is highly unlikely that you will change him, or that he will change you.
You can tell him you are scared, you can tell him that you are afraid he will not want to be with you if you relapse, you can evaluate your own idea that commitment has to precede history, you can see if you can stay in the here and now as much as possible. It is very hard work. I'm still learning about this stuff.
Hope this made some sense. Just ignore it if it didn't. I'm not one to be speaking too much about relationships (except for what I'm learning) because they are hard as hell for me.
Good luck, love yourself, be yourself. Have some fun.
Shar
Posted by laural on October 20, 2000, at 13:57:57
In reply to Long post about relationships » laural, posted by shar on October 20, 2000, at 12:07:15
hi shar--
i appreciate bluntness very much and i don't think you were out of line at all in fact very much in line. thank you for understanding, this is tricky business. : ) laural
Posted by Ted on October 20, 2000, at 15:22:31
In reply to hi everybody, posted by laural on October 20, 2000, at 4:09:58
Laural,
If I may share my point of view.... If your boyfriend acts like he doesn't want to know about your past or cannot deal with your past, I would have serious difficulties. Mental illness is not like petty thievery -- we *will* eventually relapse, maybe mildly, maybe severely. If your boyfriend is trying to hide from your past out of fear or ignorance, you have a big job to do *now* to educate him because the last thing you need is to have him run off frightened just when you need him the most.
This is just my own simplistic view and might not be shared by everyone. If he is as intelligent and accepting as he is kind and just, then your job will be easy. If he has preconceived notions of how your mental health will be forever in the future, he (and you) will be sadly disappointed.
I wish you the best of luck. Make sure that you keep up frequent email, visits, telephone calls, and even email photos to each other. If you don't, most long-distance relationships will eventually drift apart (voice of failed experience).
Ted
Posted by laural on October 21, 2000, at 9:03:08
In reply to Re: hi everybody » laural, posted by Ted on October 20, 2000, at 15:22:31
yeah, i don't want to admit it but i am pretty angry about the lack of interest. before i let the relationship fail though i'll drag us both to see relations counselors in order to solve this. i do know that its not that he doesn't care, but i have to speculate from there on. . . laural
Posted by coral on October 23, 2000, at 6:23:06
In reply to Re:to Ted, posted by laural on October 21, 2000, at 9:03:08
Marriage is no insulation or guarantee if trouble strikes. After my first depression, my husband and I separated and were in the process of divorce. To his credit, he stayed with me while I was depressed (3 1/2 years) but withdrew emotionally. We've reconciled (six years and still going wonderfully!), but our ignorance allowed us to nearly destroy our marriage. Both of us becoming educated about depression became a priority. During my second depressive episode (much less severe and much shorter), we were equipped to handle it, which required a great deal of very open communication, including my keeping him abreast of meds, what I was feeling, etc., as well as where he was. He's learned when to gently nudge me to go for a walk or just allow me to hibernate. After a few bad days then a good day for me, he became irritable and stressed which bothered me, because it seemed like we both couldn't feel good at the same time. After discussing it with both he and my therapist, we've realized that when I'm going through a bad spot, he is more vigilant, caring for me. When I'm having a good day, he gets to "let down", releasing anxiety. It's a normal cycle. Understanding that has helped us tremendously. It's not being married that's made the difference, but the commitment to each other, which includes working through difficulties as well as sharing the joys, that matters. If I may suggest something, please be very direct with your boyfriend.
BTW, you're not "tainted goods"!!! Difficulties are part of the human condition. Your accepting your problems as part of you, and nothing to be ashamed of, may help him.
Posted by laural on October 24, 2000, at 9:37:13
In reply to Re:to Ted, posted by coral on October 23, 2000, at 6:23:06
thankyou so much --i really needed that, a first hand account of how a marriage works with chronic illness. you don't know how much this means to me, i'm crying right now and can hardly see the key board. thank you-
Posted by coral on October 24, 2000, at 14:08:15
In reply to oh thankyou so much coral, posted by laural on October 24, 2000, at 9:37:13
Dear Laural,
You're welcome. I'm pleased that I could help.
How our "significant others" feel about us, and whatever problems we may have, is crucial. My husband is the most wonderful man in the world. On the other hand, my sister considers the depression to be a weakness in me. So, I shelter myself from my sister when the "beast" is here. I hate that depression impacts me, and consequently, my husband (part of the self-loathing that comes with it, I guess), but the bouquet of life comes with both roses and thorns. Part of my honoring our commitment is to handle the depression to the best of my ability, which means most importantly honest communication. As an example, I had a perfectly wretched day last week, due to a flood of very painful, very old memories and instead of talking with him about it, I just withdrew until evening, when I told him I needed to be comforted. Within ten minutes, I felt better. He asked how long I'd been hurting and I told him. He said, "Next time, tell me in the morning so you don't have to spend the day in agony when there's something I can do to help." By the same token, on just a "gray" day, I do my best not to buckle under it - everyone has "gray" days. It's also very important to tell him when I'm feeling great - so he can relax, and also so we can celebrate the healing victories.
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