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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by froyo on July 30, 2012, at 18:49:38
I have never had therapy before, but my anxiety has been getting in my way lately, so I finally got an appointment at my school for free therapy.
My therapist seems really nice, but I could totally tell that when I was telling her the story of all of my problems (and I was tearing up/crying) she was wiping her eyes.
I had to look away because it made me feel weird. I had literally met her 20-25 minutes before. I'm determined to get better within my limit of free sessions which is why i was so open at this first one, but when I left, I couldn't shake the feeling that "wow, my life is so f*ck*d up that I made my therapist cry."
We never discussed her tears, (or mine for that matter). She caught them near her tear ducts, and I never saw them, but seeing her wipe her eyes (in the way that you would wipe away tears) just was weird to me. I'm not very outspoken and its against my nature to speak up but... yea. I googled it, and people have said that it is a show of empathy, but we hadn't established a rapport yet...
Does anyone have experience with something like this?
I'm a therapy noob.
Posted by Tabitha on July 31, 2012, at 0:02:22
In reply to first ever session, and my therapist cried, posted by froyo on July 30, 2012, at 18:49:38
Hi,
I'm sorry you felt uncomfortable with your first session.My therapist teared up during my first session, too. Now that I think of it, I think that was the only time I ever saw her do that.
I'm kind of a jaded old timer now, and sometimes I think those tears were a way to get me to come back. The fact that she teared up over my story really drew me in. I was pretty starved for empathy.
Posted by Dinah on July 31, 2012, at 8:26:10
In reply to first ever session, and my therapist cried, posted by froyo on July 30, 2012, at 18:49:38
I can honestly say that my therapist has never come near to crying in my sessions.
My inclination would be to be afraid that she didn't have very good ego boundaries. As you said, you really weren't on such terms as to make that level of empathy understandable. I'd be wondering which of my experiences roused memories of her own experiences. Or echoed her own issues? Is it empathy? Or is it an intrusion of her own experiences into therapy?
I would probably not want to go back. But then I fully admit that my therapist is not the teensiest bit touchy/feely, although he can be understanding and warm. He probably errs, if at all, in the other direction. I think I feel more comfortable, if I cry, to have a therapist who appears strong and able to tolerate my feelings. That may be a personal preference on my part based on rather reactive parents. What is your preference? How do you feel about her reaction?
If it makes you uncomfortable, are there any other alternatives at your school?
Posted by Phillipa on July 31, 2012, at 10:14:05
In reply to Re: first ever session, and my therapist cried » froyo, posted by Dinah on July 31, 2012, at 8:26:10
Also through her verbal feedback did you give any indication that it was tears in other words was she also upset? Could she have just been wiping at her eyes or even have allergies?. Personally I've never seen a therapist shed tears. Phillipa
Posted by emmanuel98 on July 31, 2012, at 19:13:13
In reply to Re: first ever session, and my therapist cried, posted by Phillipa on July 31, 2012, at 10:14:05
My DBT therapist has teared up over me, but not cried. Not in the first session, though. She also once put her hand to her heart and sighed and said, my god, that's so lovely when I told her about something my husband said. I like this about her, but would have found it weird if she had been like this from day one.
Posted by Raisinb on July 31, 2012, at 22:35:08
In reply to first ever session, and my therapist cried, posted by froyo on July 30, 2012, at 18:49:38
I used to make my former therapist cry, and that was a very messed up relationship. But I don't think you can judge a therapist for just that one episode. Just pay attention to how you feel when you are with her. If you feel her emotions, not yours, are taking center stage, that's a problem. On the other hand perhaps she's just unusually expressive.
Posted by froyo on August 1, 2012, at 6:16:32
In reply to Re: first ever session, and my therapist cried, posted by Raisinb on July 31, 2012, at 22:35:08
Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions!
I have another session next week.
I don't think I'll have the opportunity to change (if I wanted to) because it takes so long to get placed with a therapist. She seems really nice and caring, so I don't know if I'll want to.She had said that she was overcoming a cold when we first met, but I hadn't seen any signs of anything until I got into the sad part of my story when she kept trying to wipe away what I thought to be tears from the inside corner of her eye (I don't know what else would be there and would have to be continued to be wiped away).
It's probably her style to be super empathetic, but I'm sure I'll appreciate it in a couple sessions more than i did at that one.
For seeing someone for the first time and telling them things that probably no one else knows to the extent that i told her, I thought she was a good listener and I felt supported by the fact that she seemed to care, but my mind was just so thrown off by the thought that she was literally tearing up at the things that I told her. And then anxiety kicks in and I can't get it out of my head that my life is so f*ck*d up, and then i think about it more... (a lovely cycle).
Next time I go, I'll probably mention about how talking about everything and leaving made my mind race (and continue to race) about how f'd up i feel that my life is (but I won't mention the tears part).
Posted by Dinah on August 13, 2012, at 12:40:19
In reply to Re: first ever session, and my therapist cried, posted by froyo on August 1, 2012, at 6:16:32
Posted by froyo on August 14, 2012, at 0:08:08
In reply to Have you seen her again? How did it go? (nm), posted by Dinah on August 13, 2012, at 12:40:19
Thanks for following up!
Yes, I did see her again. I told her how I felt weird, mostly because I had never verbalized all of those problems I had been having to any one person at any one time. I didn't say anything about her tears, but I did mention how saying all of what I said to someone made me feel as if my life really was super f*ck*d up. She was really honest with me by saying that my life has been harder than most people's and while I think that she would have thought that it would make me feel as if my feelings were justified, it just made me feel more even morefucked up, haha).The way my insurance works, it would have been really expensive to see a psychiatrist at this student mental health center, but she had said that I could sign a release for her to send her notes to a physician on campus (whose appointments are free to me) in order to get on a medication that could help. I had a small time frame, but I had asked her how long she said that she needed to prepare one, and she said that I could have set up my appointment for the next day and let her know and she'd get it ready. I set mine up for 2 days from then, sent her an email that afternoon and I was crushed at the appointment when she hadn't sent over any info whatsoever.
He determined pretty quickly what she had discovered anyways, that either I was mildly depressed instead of having anxiety, or a having a bit of both. I was nervous on taking his suggestion of an anti-depressant (something like celexa) medication at the time because I was still pretty convinced that I was mostly anxious rather than depressed (although the idea appeals to me more after thinking about it, I've been lacking motivation for awhile), and instead just took a beta-blocker (propranolol) for my performance anxiety. I also only got the beta-blocker because I was preparing for (and just had today) my tonsils out.
and my gosh, is percocet and hospital-grade pain killers/anti-anxiety drugs are great---when you have a prescription of course... ;)
Posted by TemporarilyBob on October 26, 2012, at 2:20:16
In reply to Re: Have you seen her again? How did it go?, posted by froyo on August 14, 2012, at 0:08:08
Classic by-words of Psycho-Babble: Your mileage may vary.
I have an atypical type of bipolar disorder. When I was an undergrad, it hadn't even started showing up in the research literature, but it looked like Major Depressive Disorder. Even though I was at one of the top universities in the country, I got bounced from one "free" student medical service to another until I ran out of free options. My student health plan got me something like 8 sessions with a private therapist, but my parents' backwards opinions kept them from bothering to check if I was covered for more under my father's health plan (old-style BCBS, basically covered everything since it was a teacher's union plan). Once I stopped therapy with this outside therapist, it took me another 13 years and a series of panic attacks, something I had never had before, to get in to see my primary care doc, who referred me to the therapist I've seen since then, 15+ years.
Your mileage may vary.
But don't let your first experiences with medical care for what I prefer to call a neurological disorder sour you on treatment in anyway or deter you from getting relief from what you are feeling. (I detest "mental disability" or "mental" anything ... it plays to the "invisible disability" perception of what we go through to say it's "in our minds" IMO, and there are just too many negative connotations about that to dump onto what we already have to deal with.)
Don't let fear of being "different" or fupped duck deter you. You deserve the best care you can get. And, particularly at first, YOU need to be the strongest link in the chain, YOU need to be the one looking out for your best interests.
I'm sorry if I sound alarmist or over-dramatic. I just know my first experiences with mental health care left much to be desired. That was 30 years ago. A lot has change. A lot hasn't. Keep your own best interests in your mind and in the minds of the people you have to deal with.
And your mileage may vary.
Posted by froyo on October 26, 2012, at 3:03:44
In reply to Re: Have you seen her again? How did it go? » froyo, posted by TemporarilyBob on October 26, 2012, at 2:20:16
Yea, I'm running out of sessions too. I just had my 7th one today. We get 10 per calendar year so luckily i snuck 2 in before the year switched over, so in essence i get 12 free ones. if i had the school insurance rather than just the school supplement and an outside insurance, I could keep seeing this therapist with a small copay (like 10-$15), but because I don't have the school insurance and they don't take outside insurance, once my 10 are up, I'm SOL (although they don't limit the number of sessions through the career counseling office--where I've been going every few weeks for about a year, and they have the same type of counseling degrees, but I'm not sure if they can consult with the primary care doctor... It's something I should look into)
I have many friends who don't use their free sessions, but there's no way to transfer them over...
I recently switched to wellbutrin after being on citalopram since the beginning of september (I'd rather be in emotional pain than be numb, personal preference though).
And as far as therapy goes, I feel like i end up rehashing everything i say each time, and coming up with more issues in my life, ha. I'm not so sure I'll feel resolved enough by the time my sessions are done (as my therapist thinks that my depression is mostly situational and current issues are exacerbating issues that I've repressed from long ago).
Posted by TemporarilyBob on October 26, 2012, at 3:48:44
In reply to Re: Have you seen her again? How did it go?, posted by froyo on October 26, 2012, at 3:03:44
> Yea, I'm running out of sessions too. I just had my 7th one today. We get 10 per calendar year so luckily i snuck 2 in before the year switched over, so in essence i get 12 free ones. if i had the school insurance rather than just the school supplement and an outside insurance, I could keep seeing this therapist with a small copay (like 10-$15), but because I don't have the school insurance and they don't take outside insurance, once my 10 are up, I'm SOL (although they don't limit the number of sessions through the career counseling office--where I've been going every few weeks for about a year, and they have the same type of counseling degrees, but I'm not sure if they can consult with the primary care doctor... It's something I should look into)
>
> I have many friends who don't use their free sessions, but there's no way to transfer them over...
>
> I recently switched to wellbutrin after being on citalopram since the beginning of september (I'd rather be in emotional pain than be numb, personal preference though).
>
> And as far as therapy goes, I feel like i end up rehashing everything i say each time, and coming up with more issues in my life, ha. I'm not so sure I'll feel resolved enough by the time my sessions are done (as my therapist thinks that my depression is mostly situational and current issues are exacerbating issues that I've repressed from long ago).Yeah, like I've said, some things don't change.
From your last paragraph, I'm saying this hopefully as a buffer. You see it happening already. When I got bounced from place to place, I too relived my pains and each time it got worse. One thing that might make it harder on you, sorry to say, is the time period it takes for ADs to reach their "therapeutic level" ... by the time your Wellbutrin gets to that point, you might no longer have people around you to help you examine its efficacy.
That's why you have to be your own advocate, even tho this is probably the most difficult time to be that for yourself. You cannot give up. You have to make them take notice. I did not do that, and I will not describe the road that took me down. But I will say this: I was just in a similar situation. I was basically "out-of-options" when it came to treatment. My therapist (600 miles away from me now) gave me the best advice. If you have no other options, go to the psych ER. Do NOT play nice, do not try to minimize what you are going through. Play it up, instead. Force people to notice you and your needs, and do not stop doing so until they begin to address them.
I don't know if that would have worked for me as an undergrad 30 years ago. But I can say that with the way our health system is set up now, or as of Labor Day weekend moving forward, it has worked for me. It may force you out of the university system's health care network and onto your state or county's system, but that would be a Good Thing (tm) if the university's system has pooped itself out in terms of the care the university is willing to give you.
I lost 15 years of my life to my disability because my university gave up on me, mostly due to protocols and established procedures that disregarded people in favor of budget lines. Don't let it happen to you. Fight for what you deserve, which is the same level of care anyone with a "visible" disorder would receive.
And if I can preach on one more thing -- it's fine to refer to yourself as f*ck*d *p since that's how the "rationals" understand people who think or feel "irrationally", but never believe it for a second in your heart. Those "rationals" are the same people who believe things like "cloud computing can be affected by thunderstorms" (51% in a recent survey) or that playing the same numbers on the lottery week after week improves their chances of winning (sure, only when the Law of Large Numbers comes into play, which is as the sample of random events approaches infinity). Or, as in the case of a brother of mine, that talk radio hosts with expertise in and desire for manipulating others know more than a team of doctors with several centuries of combined medical experience about the cause, nature and treatment of PTSD. "Rational" people do not use rational thinking most of the time. To keep with a probability framework, it's not that you or I are acting irrationally where "normal" people act rationally -- they are just as often irrational tho not as much irrational. We take it several deviations beyond the mean. That just makes us exceptional, not rational or irrational.
Posted by froyo on October 28, 2012, at 21:35:24
In reply to Re: Have you seen her again? How did it go?, posted by TemporarilyBob on October 26, 2012, at 3:48:44
Thanks,
I needed a pep talk.It's hard because I've spent so long trying to maintain appearances, and I've done a pretty damn good job of it. It's only been more recently that I've began visualizing that I've tried to build up my life on a foundation that wasn't very stable to begin with. That means that I know/have accepted that I'll have to continue with some sort of therapy beyond my 10 free sessions, when I have a mother (whose an MD, no less), who thinks I should "buck up" and get over it (which I find kind of insulting).
Its also hard for me because I found myself thinking: "if the citalopram/wellbutrin/whatever doesn't work, then I must be making this up, I'm not depressed I'm just lazy" or " I'm just wasting other people's time thinking there are things wrong with me."
-->it probably means I really need ADs right now...When I was younger I recalled the same feeling when I would say that i was injured playing soccer and needed to see a trainer or a doctor. Of course I didn't want to be injured, but there was a part of me that wanted to just so I would have wasted their time or that people thought that I was weak/had a low pain tolerance in wanting to see a doctor when nothing was wrong.
Posted by froyo on October 28, 2012, at 21:39:58
In reply to Re: Have you seen her again? How did it go?, posted by froyo on October 28, 2012, at 21:35:24
sorry, that didn't make much sense. This is a little clearer:
"That means that I know/have accepted that I'll have to continue with some sort of therapy beyond my 10 free sessions EVEN IF I have a mother (whose an MD, no less), who thinks I should "buck up" and get over it (which I find kind of insulting). ""just so I would'NT have wasted their time or that people thought that I was weak/had a low pain tolerance in wanting to see a doctor when nothing was wrong."
> Thanks,
> I needed a pep talk.
>
> It's hard because I've spent so long trying to maintain appearances, and I've done a pretty damn good job of it. It's only been more recently that I've began visualizing that I've tried to build up my life on a foundation that wasn't very stable to begin with. That means that I know/have accepted that I'll have to continue with some sort of therapy beyond my 10 free sessions, when I have a mother (whose an MD, no less), who thinks I should "buck up" and get over it (which I find kind of insulting).
>
> Its also hard for me because I found myself thinking: "if the citalopram/wellbutrin/whatever doesn't work, then I must be making this up, I'm not depressed I'm just lazy" or " I'm just wasting other people's time thinking there are things wrong with me."
> -->it probably means I really need ADs right now...
>
> When I was younger I recalled the same feeling when I would say that i was injured playing soccer and needed to see a trainer or a doctor. Of course I didn't want to be injured, but there was a part of me that wanted to just so I would have wasted their time or that people thought that I was weak/had a low pain tolerance in wanting to see a doctor when nothing was wrong.
Posted by froyo on January 24, 2013, at 22:05:02
In reply to Re: Have you seen her again? How did it go?, posted by TemporarilyBob on October 26, 2012, at 3:48:44
Just curious.... when in the point of a therapist/patient relationship do you think its appropriate to use 'tough love'?
I've been seeing by therapist on and off now since august. My sessions are only 45 minutes and I feel like all I get to do is rehash my last few weeks and never really get anywhere.
Part of my issue is that I'm unable to make myself do my homework. I do it eventually, but late at night and then I don't sleep, etc. I was talking about this and some other things about how I reacted to a positive thing in my life. By the end I just wanted to say "yea, that's a problem, but this other one is getting worse! I can't do my work and it makes me exhausted and miserable."
In nicer terms she said although she likes me, i was being annoying and we spent a good chunk of time analyzing my negative self talk. She kind of seemed like she was having a sh*tty day, but all I wanted was guidance on my god damned worsening perfectionist procrastination.
Now I think I'm being annoying, but I just want to know, do your therapists give you tough love, and does it totally piss you off?
Posted by Dinah on January 29, 2013, at 6:36:59
In reply to Re: therapist tough love?, posted by froyo on January 24, 2013, at 22:05:02
My therapist says that when he "pushes", I push back. Or sometimes he says I bite when challenged.
I think he exaggerates a bit. But there's no doubt that I don't respond particularly well to what some therapists like to think as "directness". I always say that I don't particularly care for unvarnished truths. I prefer my truths beveled, polished, and served in a palatable setting.
But I imagine it depends on the client, as well as on the manner the tough love is delivered. Does the love shine through, or at least appear as the bedrock under the "tough"? Or did it seem more as if, as you said, she was having a sh*tty day and relieving her frustrations? Were your needs uppermost in the session?
I find some CBT terminology downright offensive, and more time is spent clarifying and maintaining the relationship than actually working when he uses it. I suppose that might mean that it totally p*sses me off, although I prefer to think of it as hurting me and making me feel defensive. I prefer it when we're working together, and CBT sometimes doesn't strike me that way.
But to be fair to her, I've heard many people say they appreciated tough love from their therapists. I suppose a good therapist can be flexible in approach.
Posted by Dinah on February 10, 2013, at 8:49:21
In reply to Re: therapist tough love?, posted by froyo on January 24, 2013, at 22:05:02
This is the end of the thread.
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