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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2 to 26 of 26. Go back in thread:
Posted by BayLeaf on December 3, 2009, at 19:55:35
In reply to Ha Ha -- the joke is on me, posted by TherapyGirl on December 3, 2009, at 18:42:58
Because your T is too tired/stupid/burnt out, run down, ...whatever it is, to do the work she should have done, this does NOT reflect on you or your worth or value.
You are still as good a person, as great a women, as terrific a mom to Bayleigh as ever. Bayleigh still loves you and needs YOU...yeah...YOU, not some stranger. Dogs have feelings, they love and grieve.
I once spent the night with a dog after her sister was hit by a car right in front on her. She cried all night. She cried in her sleep for weeks. She's never been the same. How do you think Bayleigh would be without you?
You are magnificent because Bayleigh loves you. Dogs know good people. They are the BEST judges.
((((((TG))))))))
Posted by Dinah on December 3, 2009, at 20:01:47
In reply to Ha Ha -- the joke is on me, posted by TherapyGirl on December 3, 2009, at 18:42:58
I'm sorry. :(
I think it's time for a cyberslap (if not a cyber kick in the rear) for your therapist. I think every therapist should start that work as soon as they think to retire.
Are you available to chat?
Posted by Daisym on December 3, 2009, at 20:12:45
In reply to Ha Ha -- the joke is on me, posted by TherapyGirl on December 3, 2009, at 18:42:58
Ask yourself about the message you are trying to convey with plan A. There are better ways to send it and it is very possible that given the current state of things, she wouldn't really understand it anyway. Your family doesn't deserve this, even as much as you don't deserve to be left the way you are being left.
I think a quick break might have been kinder. This wound keeps getting opened up again and again. It can't heal under these circumstances.
So here is the harsh truth. You can't need her anymore for anything in the future. But you can still need and love her for all the past support and help. That counts - in a really big way. Hold her in your mind that way. Stop trying to carry her forward in any other way. It is hurting you too much to do that.
Someone wise said to me that letting go of someone is painful but it does make room for a someone else to bring new joy in to your life.
I wish this for you. So hold on, let all these painful feelings pass. It will get better. You will heal.
Hugs,
Daisy
Posted by TherapyGirl on December 4, 2009, at 12:49:19
In reply to Re: Ha Ha -- the joke is on me » TherapyGirl, posted by BayLeaf on December 3, 2009, at 19:55:35
Thanks, Bay. I know you're right about Bayleigh and when I sit with her and hang out, I'm right there with you. Then I have to face the rest of my world and I'm back to the plan.
I'm trying to hang in there, though, and appreciate the support.
Posted by TherapyGirl on December 4, 2009, at 12:52:23
In reply to Re: Ha Ha -- the joke is on me » TherapyGirl, posted by Dinah on December 3, 2009, at 20:01:47
Yeah, I think a slap would be too subtle for her right now, Dinah.
I called her this morning and told her that I just don't know if I can come back. That while I think she is a wonderful person and has been a great T for me, she sucks at termination. I told her I knew she would say that it's my responsibility to have a plan for afterwards, but I told her that she is the one leaving and she has some responsibility here -- that I couldn't believe that she didn't even have a referral for me. A real referral, not a yellow pages referral.
As usual, no response to that. If you happen to bring this up with your T, I'd love to hear what responsibility he thinks Ts in general have for providing referrals and whether or not he thinks this is okay.
Posted by TherapyGirl on December 4, 2009, at 12:55:47
In reply to Re: Ha Ha -- the joke is on me » TherapyGirl, posted by Daisym on December 3, 2009, at 20:12:45
Thank you so much for this, Daisy. If you have time, could you clarify a few things for me? My brain is pretty fuzzy today, so excuse the lameness of these questions. Could you give me some ideas of other ways to convey the message? I think this might be helpful when my brain goes down the Plan A track and I can't think of any other way. And it's not that that is the only reason I'd go with Plan A, but that is one of the draws -- that it would prove to her how badly she has handled this. Or at least make her as sad as she's made me.
Also, when you say I can still love her and need her for the past stuff -- I agree. But do you mean I should continue to go to my sessions? I don't quite know what to do for the next 4 weeks. Last night was so excruciatingly painful -- I can't imagine putting myself through that again.
Thank you, thank you. You are so wise.
Hugs backatcha!
TG
Posted by Dinah on December 4, 2009, at 14:40:07
In reply to Re: Ha Ha -- the joke is on me » Dinah, posted by TherapyGirl on December 4, 2009, at 12:52:23
Not surprisingly, your situation did come up in therapy today. Because I know that one day I'll be in your shoes. I don't know that I asked him directly, but I do think he looked none too approving when he heard she didn't have a referral after you asked for one. As you know, mine finally gave me three names in case something ever happens to him.
But really, anyone who performs a service, professional or not, generally has a name ready. My pdoc sent out a general letter with three names, and I thought that was pretty standard. He didn't personalize it to my needs, but at least it was something.
My therapist did think about the referrals and gave the names of three people he thinks I might not dislike.
But Therapygirl, even if she's being a rotten therapist right now, to kill yourself over it is to give her more power than she frankly deserves. She's just not worth it. You have friends who care about you. You have a dog who likely worships you. And you can find another therapist. Not one to take her place. But you can find new sources of support.
I know she's let you down badly. Sometimes I wonder if the therapists we have in our head aren't significantly more sensitive and skilled than the lowly human beings we project them onto. The therapist you have in your head, the better half version of your therapist, that she can't take away.
I won't say it doesn't suck though. For all those years they say they care about us. And they even mean it at the moment. But when it comes to their life, we're going to be left in the dust.
I'm jealous of my therapist's daughter. Not because I think he's such a fabulous father. And not because I think they have a fabulous relationship. Because I sometimes think we receive the best parts of our therapists. But because no matter what happens, she'll be a part of his life. He can't walk away from her or forget her. I wish I had that. I wish I wasn't always the one left.
Posted by TherapyGirl on December 4, 2009, at 20:53:38
In reply to Re: Ha Ha -- the joke is on me » TherapyGirl, posted by Dinah on December 4, 2009, at 14:40:07
Yep to all of it. I'll try to hang on to the "it's not worth it" part. It's harder some moments than others. Last night was more excruciating by far than the surgery I had 18 months ago.
This is just so alien for her. It couldn't be further away from the way she used to act. It's very, very hard to swallow.
And I'm not enjoying how easy she's making it on herself to leave me. I asked her last night if all the others were fine with her leaving. She said a few were, but others were having a very difficult time with it. I've not generally wanted to ever meet her other clients, but I would dearly love to talk to them now to hear their perceptions of how she's handled this.
Zero response to the voice mail. And that's after the conversation we had after I returned from my 3-week break last summer where I told her how hurtful it was for there to be no response to my messages then. She basically said she didn't know what to say and was trying to give me time. I told her that was not how that works for me -- that my brain will fill in all kinds of reasons for her not responding and that she could at least leave a message for me at the house. She said she didn't think of it, but that was a good idea.
So no message. WTF am I supposed to think about that? Where is my T?????????????????????
Posted by muffled on December 5, 2009, at 10:40:31
In reply to Re: Ha Ha -- the joke is on me » TherapyGirl, posted by Daisym on December 3, 2009, at 20:12:45
There are times in life to let go. We lose loved ones, and grieve. We grieve our lost lives, lost innocence. There is alot to grieve in this fallen world.
But there is alot to rejoice in too. The love of a pet, the kindness of another, the beauty of nature, the warmth of the sun.
TG, I am not posting here, but wanted to post to you cuz I care that you hurting.
I don't know what the right answers are. I can only assume and guess how you feel based on my life experiences and then extrapolate, perhaps innacurrately.
I think others have said good things. I really like what Daisy had to say.
Your T did help you. Hold on to the good.
But now its time to just let go, and go thru the grieving process.
I suspect your T is overwhelmed herself, this has been going on for a long time. Sounds like you are not the only one talking this hard. So T has to deal with the other clients too. Its sounds like she was a great and caring T, but now it is over, time to let go of her. I think she has no more that she is able to give. I think she might wish she did, but she has to do what she has to do.
I am glad you are considering another T, I think you need to ACTIVELY persue this.
My old T was no help in finding another T. I thot she would be so eager to help once she knew what I was looking for. I thot she would have T connections and would know HOW to find another T that would better suit me. Turns out she didn't. But she was willing to support thru until I got the new T. I actually quit earlier cuz I didn't like the torture of seeing her when I knew I was going to quit.
We did still keep in touch a bit, and I still care bout oldT, but its not very intense anymore. I think like Dinah said, we get the best of our T's really, and once no longer in the T situ....its not the same...
So think about what you want in a t? Then make a list of 'interview' questions, and start phoning. If some come across all righton the phone, then consider going in for a F2F interview. And the first T you actually go to multiple sessions may the 'the one', or not. If not, keep trying. A good T is a wonderous find and worth the effort ultimately.
I was talking to someone who after 8 T interviews, gave up, then tried one more time awhile later, and got the best T ever!!!!(she was a complex trauma case, so it was especially hard to find aT experienced in that).
I think a new T can offer whole new perspectives. You may be wonderfully suprized to come out of the T rut, and onto a different T road.(ok, that last sentence was DUMB!!!!)
But seriously, I just hope you can get down to business in searching for a T that suits you. If you search on the internet for ideas of things to look for in a T etc, there are sites that offer ideas about questions to ask etc.
T searching is hard and can seem overwhelming, but once you kinda get into it , its not as bad as you might think.
I gotta say, if I was you. I would like to maintain some small contact w/oldT, just to know she there, but I would immediately be looking for anew one cuz going to old one is too tortuous.
I rambling and not talking so good, but I trying real hard. I think others say it better.
Anyhow, ya, things WILL get better. You been living under this dark cloud of T leaving for a long time now. But once you get out from under it, proly things'll look better.
And a new T might be a great thing to help you move ahead w/life.
I sorry you hurting so bad. You a cool person, I hate that you hurting.
But I know too it gets better, its gonna be better.
I will check in here from time to time. Mebbe you can start a thread on T hunting and lets us know hows it going?
Like mebbe "today I looked in the phone book and wrote down x names. I phoned 1 so far." etc. So that way we kinda doing the hunt WITH you as best we can.
There are good T's out there. There are CRUMMY T's out there, and everything in btwn. You go out there and find a great T !!!!
Good luck, best wishes, sorry youse hurting,
Sorry this is jumbled.
I just want you to be Ok.
I not gonna post here anymore, cuz this site is messed. But I watch for you TG.
OK I go now.
Muffled etc
Posted by muffled on December 5, 2009, at 10:42:19
In reply to Letting go., posted by muffled on December 5, 2009, at 10:40:31
Just occurred to me, if you post on this thread, bout new thread, then people who posted on this thread, will get notification and will find new thread....
if they clicked on notify that is, which I just done on this post.
TGC
M
Posted by muffled on December 5, 2009, at 10:43:58
In reply to Re: Letting go. » muffled, posted by muffled on December 5, 2009, at 10:42:19
Musta been one of my 'parts'(kidding!) LOL LOL!!!!
Posted by TherapyGirl on December 6, 2009, at 19:55:11
In reply to Letting go., posted by muffled on December 5, 2009, at 10:40:31
Muffly, you never cease to amaze me. I know how hard it is for you to post here now and I am in tears at the love you just showed by posting to me. Your post is priceless -- I will need to print it out and read it over and over. You make a lot of sense, though, and your words give me much to hold on to.
Maybe I will start a T search thread and even get ideas for screening out the idiots. :-)
Thank you again, Muffly. You are a great friend and you've given me a priceless gift.
((((((((((Muffled)))))))))))))
Posted by TherapyGirl on December 6, 2009, at 19:58:53
In reply to Re: Letting go. » muffled, posted by TherapyGirl on December 6, 2009, at 19:55:11
The worst seems to be over for right now. It will probably come back. And I don't know how to properly thank all of you -- Bayleaf, Dinah, Daisy and Muffled, as well as others who may have read the thread and just not known what to say.
I can't explain how wonderful it is to be able to post my biggest fears and greatest grief about T and be immediately and totally understood. You know, when I'm in the depths of the black hole, it is very hard for me to respond the way I should. But I want you each to know that I have read and re-read all of your posts over this weekend and it has made a huge difference in helping me get back to some sort of non-suicidal plateau, even though T has still not responded.
Words can't express how special you are to me.
Posted by BayLeaf on December 6, 2009, at 20:46:20
In reply to Re: Thank you all for helping me get through, posted by TherapyGirl on December 6, 2009, at 19:58:53
So so so glad you are feeling more grounded on this planet. I was raised by a dog, which totally makes me a dog person. I'm sure Bayleigh is WAY thrilled to have you around! :-)
Big furry hugs, bay
p.s. woof, scratch, scratch
Posted by TherapyGirl on December 6, 2009, at 21:01:07
In reply to WOOOT!!!! (((((TG))))), posted by BayLeaf on December 6, 2009, at 20:46:20
Thanks, Bay. Just so you know, my little guy with Down Syndrome picked a dog out from the shelter yesterday. She's a 4-year-old Beagle -- very, very sweet and she looks like my foster Beagle's twin sister.
My little guy was afraid of dogs until he met a therapy dog and then Bayleigh. So this is a little miracle. We've spent all day today getting ready for the new dog. Something to look forward to...
Posted by Daisym on December 7, 2009, at 1:21:24
In reply to Re: Ha Ha -- the joke is on me » Daisym, posted by TherapyGirl on December 4, 2009, at 12:55:47
I'm glad you are feeling better - I hope this is true and you really are. I guess the room being made was perhaps for another dog - who would have guessed?
No one can tell you whether to go or not to your final sessions. But I think if it were me, I wouldn't go. Instead, I'd write two letters. One expressing all the angry, let down and upset feelings about the way termination has been handled and another, expressing all the love and nostalgia and grief about your work together. It feels like they are such separate and competing feelings. Put it all down - as angry and demanding and unkind as you want. Keeping the letters separate means you don't have to apologize or soften or take it back or even own it any way. Let yourself be fully and truly angry. You can decide whether to mail one or both or none - but at least you'd get down on paper what you need to say. And if it were me, I'd ask for a "final chapter." Something written by her to you, that you can keep and hold. My fingers are crossed that she could do this for you and make it meaningful. But the face to face interactions seem to be destroying the internalized T you hold, and nothing is worth that.
I can't help but think about how much pain your T must be in and how much her world must have been rocked to have changed this much. It sounds like she is suffering her own depression and even existential crisis. That doesn't excuse her but when you write, "where is my T?" I think, she seems to have disappeared into her grief. How sad.
But this is one of those times where you take what you've learned from her - which is to take care of yourself. Keep doing that. I think you are on the right track by adding things to love to your life.
Take care.
Posted by muffled on December 8, 2009, at 1:37:03
In reply to Re: Ha Ha -- the joke is on me » TherapyGirl, posted by Daisym on December 7, 2009, at 1:21:24
Posted by TherapyGirl on December 8, 2009, at 19:42:09
In reply to ((((((((((TG))))))))))))) (nm), posted by muffled on December 8, 2009, at 1:37:03
I'm not planning to call her or go back. Does that sound too passive aggressive? She should have responded to my message, right?
Posted by TherapyGirl on December 8, 2009, at 20:01:06
In reply to Re: Still nothing from T, posted by TherapyGirl on December 8, 2009, at 19:42:09
Thanks for the suggestion, Muffly!
Posted by muffled on December 9, 2009, at 9:49:49
In reply to Re: Still nothing from T, posted by TherapyGirl on December 8, 2009, at 19:42:09
> I'm not planning to call her or go back. Does that sound too passive aggressive? She should have responded to my message, right?
Mebbe you both need some space right now.
Maybe try and think of your T as OldT now, cuz, for a variety of reasons, you can no longer do real therapy with her.
Onward, and start looking for someone fresh and new.
OldT is still 'out there', and proly you can touch base from time to time. But ya, I would try and convert my thinking that she oldT now...
Its not easy, but it can be done.
I think you already halfway there to accepting this.
Its been a hard , hard road, but you getting there!
Posted by TherapyGirl on December 9, 2009, at 18:45:16
In reply to Re: Still nothing from T, posted by muffled on December 9, 2009, at 9:49:49
I hope you're right. I swing back and forth between wanting to fix this and desperately wanting to let go.
Posted by TherapyGirl on December 9, 2009, at 18:45:59
In reply to Re: Still nothing from T, posted by muffled on December 9, 2009, at 9:49:49
Hi TherapyGirl, it's T. It is Wednesday about midday and I was just checking in. I did get your message, but wanted to respect your space, but do want to know where you are and what you're needing at this time. I think as you know I'm hoping we will meet again, but I will wait to hear from you about that.
Thoughts?
Posted by muffled on December 9, 2009, at 19:38:12
In reply to Re: The message she finally left me, posted by TherapyGirl on December 9, 2009, at 18:45:59
> Hi TherapyGirl, it's T. It is Wednesday about midday and I was just checking in. I did get your message, but wanted to respect your space, but do want to know where you are and what you're needing at this time. I think as you know I'm hoping we will meet again, but I will wait to hear from you about that.
>
> Thoughts?Thots, good way of saying it cuz I can't tell you what to do.
I can say what I might do if I was in a similiar situ.I think I would think that its nice she checked in w/me.
I might be summat pissed that she disn't ask if I wanted my space.....but I might interpret it as her wanting HER space more likely.
I'd figger this T and me been working together a long time, and she can't not like me and have kept seeing me alla this time.
I'd be thinking she sounds a little lost as to what to do, but wishing she did know...
I'd think, ya, she does still care.
But ya, I need my space.
So, that being said, I might write back something along the lines of...
1. I need my space
2. I DO want to see you again at some point, but not to do therapy, just I would really want to be able to touch base in a small way now and again, cuz you help to make me feel safe. Just knowing you 'out there' and you care.
3. I am now actively searching for a new T. I am getting help from some friends in doing this, but do you have anything to suggest that might help me in my search?
4. You can't be my T anymore, it hurts too much. But I thank you for supporting me all these years. I do want to meet w/you again when I am ready.Mebbe along those lines?
But thats just me.
I just know its hard, its gonna be hard TG, but it WILL get easier w/time.
Meanwhile, T hunting can occupy you.
Kinda exiting in a way, cuz who will the is new T be, what new work can you do with a fresh new T?
Could be good!
TGC, gotta run.
M
Posted by Dinah on December 9, 2009, at 20:35:43
In reply to Re: The message she finally left me, posted by TherapyGirl on December 9, 2009, at 18:45:59
Sigh.
It sounds to me like a person who has had no more training in how to do this than you have. And who knows she's hurting you, but really doesn't know what will hurt you least from this point on.
I think it sounds like she's not the therapist who has been your support for all these years. You're just two people who don't know how the heck to do this.
Whether it's wrong of them to let us grow to rely on them while they are available, I don't know. Maybe they have no clue what is best to do in that either.
Whatever you decide from this point on, I think you need to decide based on the information that she's not the therapist she's been to you all these years. She's just a person, and one who no more has the answers than you do.
The pain right now lasts a month. The pain of having lost her will last for a good deal longer. When you look back on this, how do you want to remember it? Don't think of it in terms of what's best for the next month, or least painful, but what will have caused you less pain long term.
And what that may be, only you can really know I think.
Posted by lingonberry on December 10, 2009, at 3:58:35
In reply to Re: I started a new thread about finding a new T, posted by TherapyGirl on December 8, 2009, at 20:01:06
Hi, TG. I have followed the thread and I really dont know what to say. (But I try anyway. LOL)
Im so sorry about the way your T is handling your termination. She could have made it a lot easier for you. Or could she?
>>And I'm not enjoying how easy she's making it on herself to leave me.>>
>>This is just so alien for her. It couldn't be further away from the way she used to act. It's very, very hard to swallow. Zero response to the voice mail. And that's after the conversation we had after I returned from my 3-week break last summer where I told her how hurtful it was for there to be no response to my messages then. She basically said she didn't know what to say and was trying to give me time. I told her that was not how that works for me -- that my brain will fill in all kinds of reasons for her not responding and that she could at least leave a message for me at the house. She said she didn't think of it, but that was a good idea!>>
Maybe thats not what this is all about; shes making it easy for herself. I cant think that anyone would work in this field without empathy for others and a wish to doing good. I do think shes care about you, a lot. But its obvious that she has issues regarding termination, that she is afraid and dont know how to handle the situation.
She has acting in this way before. Im not saying' she's not responsible for the situation, because she is. Its her job to handle this carefully - its her responsibility to work trough her own issues before she decides to work in this field. But her sudden lack of understanding shows her insufficiency. Maybe she was a very good T, but when it comes to termination and separation shes really of the hook. And unfortunately, you have to pay the price. I wish you have had the opportunity to end a good relationship with a mix feeling of sadness, joy and mutual respect instead of this. And I hope that no aspects of you blame yourselves by thinking if I onlyI think its crucial that you aloud yourself to grieve for the loss, and feel all the anger thats follows with being treating this way. I hope, and believe, in time, you will remember the good thing you shared with her and looking forward to let yourself continue your growth, become the person you was meant to be, together with a new skilful and caring T.
Lingonberry
This is the end of the thread.
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