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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by blahblahblah on November 5, 2009, at 19:15:46
Hey all,
Need some advice on what I should do. I am really worried about my T. her stress levels have been getting a lot higher and she has been doing some strange behaviour. I see has as a strong maternal role in my life and it is really upsetting me seeing the changes. I have been seeing her for about a year and half, we have a very strong r'ship.Ok. While there has been a slight build up (went weird after she had death threats and now has highly increased security and is very paranoid) the strange behaviours started about a week ago, firstly she wasn't responding to calls like she used to. Then she spent a few days in hospital for stress. Last time I saw her she told me about her stress and the meds she is on for them. She at times will tell me about her stresses but not go too far into it. Anyway, she went away and bought me a gift, asked me a q about it, but i never got to discuss it with her. I texted her that night and said I think I know the answer and will talk to her about it the next session. Anyways, she rang me at 7.55 in the morn to talk bout it and said she was feeling manic. So that was strange. Then i called her later that night to ask her if she could recommend someone for my friend, of which she called back at 12.30 at night. This is very unusual behaviour for her. In the conversation we got into a disagreement as she was saying I had said something I had never said. It was about a film. When I said i did not say that she would not back down and got annoyed at me. So...this is where I stand now. I care about her a lot, she is a lovely person. I am just so concerned about her, and the fact that i feel i can not talk to her about probs anymore, and that i am not seeing her as that strong person anymore.
Usually she is a great T who is always very professional, so I know this is unusual for her. Do you have any recommendations on how i should approach this? I want to talk to her about whether she has a T or not but I dont' want to upset her or make her feel uncomfortable. Oh, and not seeing her is not an option. She has been so strong and supportive of me for long time, I am not turning on her now.
Also...I ask please can no-one post this on twitter or facebook. Even though there are no names I dont' want my T to somehow stumble across this, and the less places it is posted the better chance she won't.
Posted by tetrix on November 5, 2009, at 19:58:12
In reply to worried about T, posted by blahblahblah on November 5, 2009, at 19:15:46
Wow blah, your situation sounds very unusual.. from what you described, indeed your T does exhibit very unusual behavior and certainly sounds like a case of burnout. I know that your T is very dear to you and though I dont think that you should necessarily start looking for another T, you should give your T a little break.. I dont know the frequency of your sessions... maybe you should take 3-4 weeks off and let her regain her strength and composure... our T's are human just like us... and infact t's have a very high burn out rate..
You could also gently suggest that she sees a T to work her issues through.. I am really sorry you have to go through this... it must be very strange and difficult to see that your T is just as fragile as the rest of us...
I hope your T feels better.. hugs tetrix
Posted by blahblahblah on November 5, 2009, at 20:03:13
In reply to Re: worried about T, posted by tetrix on November 5, 2009, at 19:58:12
Textric,
I have told her that I will give her a break and see her less. She got upset when I said that and her secretary who i spoke to said T would get more stressed cause she would then worry about me. Secretary said that T thinks very highly of me and I am a very important client to her so that is the last thing she would want. Everytime I say to T cancel me if you need, dont' make appointments, she just says if she needs to she will but she wants to see me. So, yeah, that would be a good option. When i spoke to her bout it the other day she said it upset her that I think I'm a burden, and it makes her feel bad.
Posted by tetrix on November 5, 2009, at 20:37:54
In reply to Re: worried about T, posted by blahblahblah on November 5, 2009, at 20:03:13
Wow, it must be nice to know that your T cares about you to that extent.. I dont think mine cares about me in that way..
well how about this, did you try to talk to her openly about your concern? Tell her that you are worried about her health and perhaps reassure her that you dont feel like you a burden..and she shouldnt feel stressed or upset if you think that she needs rest.. perhaps instead of actual sessions you could call her and tell her how you are doing or email her... only for few weeks..and then once she starts feeling better you could resume your work?
make sure that your concern about her well being is heard.. she needs to be taken care of too..
Posted by workinprogress on November 6, 2009, at 1:05:10
In reply to worried about T, posted by blahblahblah on November 5, 2009, at 19:15:46
Hey there Blahblah...
So, I mean this with nothing but concern for you. And I totally get your connection with your T and how important it is to you. Believe me. My T is without a doubt the most important person in my life... she saved my life (not in a literal way, but she helped me see I could live differently). But, this sets off alarm bells in my head.
One of the very unique things about our relationships with our Ts is that it's all about us. We aren't supposed to worry about them or take care of them. And of course that isn't reality, but, the level at which your T has shared her struggles seems to have put you in a place of worrying about her over you. And it seems like it's played out in terms of you now feeling like you have to censor how much you share with her, how much you really open up about what's going on with her. And, that's not what the relationship is about.
Of course it's unrealistic that we wouldn't care about our Ts. My T has had back trouble and I ask how she's doing. Various people on the board have talked about health and family issues their Ts have had that they have shared in order for us to know where they're coming from. But, it's a conversation and the Ts share what we need to know in order to know that their change in behavior isn't about us. I recently felt it very important to share with my T that all this "clicking" and "growth" that came from a workshop I did recently doesn't negate the work I've done with her... in fact, I think it comes from that work. But, I was worried she'd think I wasn't appreciative or thankful for what we've done. But that was about me, my T was fine. She said anything that helps you learn and grow is good and I'm happy to see it. Again, about me.
It may seem selfish for it to be all about me/you, but that's why it works. It's why Ts can't do therapy with people they have relationships with outside the therapy room, because they have a stake in it.
It seems to me that you've gotten wrapped up, or your T has wrapped you up in her issues. That's not so helpful to you, because now you are worried about what you can and cannot share because it might be too much for her. I'm sure that's not her intention, but you are right to ask her pointed questions of how she's taking care of herself. She can't help you if she isn't doing that.
Your inclination to talk to her is right, I'd just be careful that you make it about you. As selfish as that sounds, it seems to me the healthy thing to do. Talking to her about whether she has supervision or a peer group or something to help her to work through whatever is going on. To let her know that you want to talk about it to the extent that you feel confident that she's doing what she can to be present for you... and all about you. But, as much as you care for her, it hurts you to be her therapist, or frankly to do/act in any way that is a reaction or preemption of her feelings/stuff. Once you get there- to a place of taking care of her- it seems the therapy for you might be lost...
I hope it all works out. A close relationship with your T is so healing. I hope you can talk about it and work through it and keep that. But please be careful about muddying those waters... in the end I think you lose a lot...
Good luck and take care of yourself... that's what therapy is about.
WIP
Posted by Dinah on November 6, 2009, at 9:10:05
In reply to worried about T, posted by blahblahblah on November 5, 2009, at 19:15:46
This sounds far more serious than a bit of stress. You call her and she says she's feeling manic? She calls you at inappropriate hours? She's not well and she needs help.
What would you say if you read your post written by someone else? I'm guessing you know the answer, but think that your relationship with her is different because it's special. That's how people always feel when they care about someone. That's what keeps people in bad relationships.
If she actually is having a bipolar incident of some sort, I don't expect her to have a lot of insight. But I'm surprised her office staff isn't more aware and more concerned for their own jobs if she's a private practitioner or for the agency reputation if she's with an agency. One of her clients is very likely to report her, which may not be an altogether bad thing since she clearly needs help and clearly is not at a point to do meaningful therapy right now. I'm not saying you should be that person. I'm just pointing out that if she really is this bad off, others will notice, and this will be a problem in her life whatever you do. You can't protect her, and it isn't your job to protect her. You need to do what is healthy for you to do. Therapy is about you, not her.
As much as I care about my therapist, when his real life starts to be a problem in my therapy, I let him know. To his credit, he is ok with my letting him know, and does his best to fix it.
Just my two cents, for whatever it's worth. You need to do what's best for you. That may or may not be walking away until she's better. But IMO, it does mean not taking responsibility for her condition.
Posted by Dinah on November 6, 2009, at 11:36:47
In reply to Re: worried about T » blahblahblah, posted by Dinah on November 6, 2009, at 9:10:05
FWIW, my therapist says there are contingencies made for impaired practitioners, and licensing boards try to do what's best for practitioners and clients and get the practitioner back to productive work as soon as possible.
I'm not saying you should contact her licensing board. I daresay it's possible she might be angry with those who did that, and you have no responsibility to put yourself in that situation. Is there another practitioner who she's in contact with who might notice there's a problem?
Posted by blahblahblah on November 6, 2009, at 15:10:38
In reply to Re: worried about T, posted by Dinah on November 6, 2009, at 11:36:47
I know that she is level 2 bipolar. Maybe that is what is going on. I am seeing her on Tuesday so I will talk to her about it then. Just can't stop thinking bout it, everything feels so strange now.
Posted by Phillipa on November 7, 2009, at 11:29:11
In reply to Re: worried about T, posted by blahblahblah on November 6, 2009, at 15:10:38
Blah if she's bipolar 2 sounds like she needs her doc asap. Anyway of getting the staff to contact her doc or I don't know the ethics of this depending on the size of practice I'd tell another co worker T that seems she might be in a bipolar state. She needs help in my opinion. Love Phillipa
Posted by blahblahblah on November 8, 2009, at 17:26:55
In reply to Re: worried about T » blahblahblah, posted by Phillipa on November 7, 2009, at 11:29:11
So, T rang me last night to tell me something so i though i'd address her bout her i felt bout the phone coversation. She wouldn't have a bar of it. Wouldn't let go the fact that i so called said something i don't remember saying. and then goes well i'll accept it as your reality. i told her that was a cop out. then she denied saying she said i was dissociating which she definatley said. so pretty much if she said i said something it has to be right, but if i say she said something i must be wrong. how does that work?
then she kept saying why are you so upset about this. what is really the problem. you are being irrational. and i kept saying i am upset that you will not listen to what i am saying and that you are arguing with me and not being fair with me. then she goes oh this is bulls%$# blah. Which i replied with F$%# you. and hung up the phone.
I have not spoken to her since. I don't know what is going on. i am worried about her but also upset that she is not acting like my T and i felt like i was arging with a parent or teacher. she used firm teacher tone and was talking down to me as if i was being an idiot. I'm so upset because this is sooo out of character for her. she was so amazing for so long. she didn't care how i felt, and she knows i cut myself yet she just let me get angry and hurt on the phone without knowing if i was ok. i am meant to be seeing her tomorrow...but i don't know what to do now.
Posted by Phillipa on November 8, 2009, at 19:35:50
In reply to Re: worried about T, posted by blahblahblah on November 8, 2009, at 17:26:55
She just doesn't seem well. Anyone that will check her out? Seems almost like a role reversal. Phillipa
Posted by tetrix on November 8, 2009, at 22:16:37
In reply to Re: worried about T » blahblahblah, posted by Phillipa on November 8, 2009, at 19:35:50
maybe she has some sort of counter transference with you on top of her not being herself
Posted by blahblahblah on November 9, 2009, at 1:35:52
In reply to Re: worried about T » blahblahblah, posted by Phillipa on November 8, 2009, at 19:35:50
yeah roles seem to be reversing. and what is bad about this is half the reason i am in therapy is because i have never been the child. my mum was very very mentally and physically ill and never put us first, and i had to look after her when she would OD and those kind of things. so this was my chance in therapy to really be listened to. i will have to wait and see how i go when i see her next.
Posted by blahblahblah on November 9, 2009, at 2:38:52
In reply to Re: worried about T, posted by blahblahblah on November 9, 2009, at 1:35:52
oh and also she works in office from her home so i don't know who i could go to to talk to bout it. she books her own appointments. etc. i know she is registered and stuff but i dont' want to go to the psych board bout her as i really care bout her so much.
Posted by Dinah on November 9, 2009, at 6:25:40
In reply to Re: worried about T, posted by blahblahblah on November 5, 2009, at 20:03:13
> Textric,
>
> I have told her that I will give her a break and see her less. She got upset when I said that and her secretary who i spoke to said T would get more stressed cause she would then worry about me. Secretary said that T thinks very highly of me and I am a very important client to her so that is the last thing she would want. Everytime I say to T cancel me if you need, dont' make appointments, she just says if she needs to she will but she wants to see me. So, yeah, that would be a good option. When i spoke to her bout it the other day she said it upset her that I think I'm a burden, and it makes her feel bad.Who is the secretary you spoke to? Maybe that would be the person to ask.
Posted by blahblahblah on November 9, 2009, at 15:54:38
In reply to Re: worried about T, posted by Dinah on November 9, 2009, at 6:25:40
she is the lady who works with T doing admin. I have never met her and she called me from T's phone so I am worried if i call T will answer. So i don't know how to get in touch with her.
Posted by Phillipa on November 9, 2009, at 18:41:22
In reply to Re: worried about T, posted by blahblahblah on November 9, 2009, at 15:54:38
I agree you have a complicated situation. I empathize with you. Is she the first T you've seen? Phillipa
Posted by blahblahblah on November 9, 2009, at 18:49:20
In reply to Re: worried about T » blahblahblah, posted by Phillipa on November 9, 2009, at 18:41:22
I've seen a few over the years but have been with mine now for 1 and a half years. She is the only adult i have ever really trusted, and i have only just begun to trust her and get comfortable with her. history of maternal child abuse so it is hard for me to relax around older women. this is reason why i can't just walk away from her. she has supported me so much and really stood by me.
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