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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Looney Tunes on November 11, 2008, at 23:36:37
1) How long did it take for you to be able to "really" talk with T?
For example: Like say anything about your past? or anything that would be sensitive?2) How long did it take for you to stop being embarrassed? Is this the same as shame?
3) How long did it take for you to realize T was not judging you or going to make you leave?
Thoughts?
Posted by Wittgensteinz on November 12, 2008, at 10:45:24
In reply to How long have you been with T AND......., posted by Looney Tunes on November 11, 2008, at 23:36:37
Hi LT,
Interesting questions!
1. I've been with my T for about a year and a half. I see him twice weekly, sometimes thrice.
2. I think there are still things I find very hard to talk about with my T, and my ability to speak freely swings back and forth. I'd say it took about a year to really be able to 'free associate' (that said, I'm not sure I'm a 'pro' at it now, but I've definitely improved and find it more comfortable than I did). As for telling him anything about my past, actually I shared quite a bit in an initial history that he asked me to write for him. I wrote about 30 pages on my early youth, of what I can remember of it - up to the age of 7. As for actually talking about memories and 'being there' that came later and is still coming. There have been a few things that I have written about and read out to him - they are too difficult for me to talk about freely.
At the moment he has asked me to talk more freely about my anger - this is something I find extremely difficult (which I think he finds a bit frustrating). I am just so inhibited regarding this emotion.
3. Shame/embarrassment is a big problem for me. There have been times that I have felt stalled - something needs to be said but I can't work through the shame of it. My T has been very good about helping me to say what I need to - he doesn't force me in any way but is able to appreciate the embarrassment I feel and alleviate it somehow. Once I've said the thing that was so difficult, he works through the feelings of shame I have associated with it.
I live in the Netherlands - it's a country where the majority of land is below sea-level. My T once used the idea of a building-site and how they need to constantly pump out the water as an analogy of shame in therapy - it's always there, coming in - but to continue work, you have to pump it away.
The question of whether embarrassment and shame are the same.. hmm.. I distinguish between the 2 as follows - the first I experience in the awkwardness of sitting there talking all about *me* - the egotism I feel as a psychotherapy patient - I have to try and swallow that feeling as I talk about myself, about whatever comes to mind - embarrassment of letting my outside persona down and trying to be just 'me'. The shame is a stronger feeling - it involves embarrassment but also guilt - guilt for sharing what happened, dishonoring my parents, for example, a deep disgust with myself for being a thing that someone would do that to - letting another person know how worthless, pathetic and unlikeable I feel I am. Shame is something more complex and painful. For me, it brings an intense sort of suffering - when I feel it very strongly, I can feel physically sick from it, have strong headaches, feel as if I am grieving. There have been sessions where I have suddenly experienced a sharp stabbing pain in my head immediately after talking about something very shameful.
4. My conviction that my T does not believe me was much stronger in the past - perhaps I just don't have the energy any more to worry so much about that - perhaps it's that I *trust* him more? I still have problems trusting that T isn't judging me and if not *why* he isn't judging me - i.e. because I shouldn't be judged or because he is professionally required to judge - just like the question of caring - is he caring because he is obliged to or because he wants to - he tells me frequently he is not a robot! This fear he will leave is still very present. I'd like to say I have progressed in terms of these things but I have difficulties trusting him and maintaining trust. Perhaps deep down, there is a part of me that is convinced he is here to stay.
How about you?
Witti
Posted by FindingMyDesire on November 12, 2008, at 15:46:50
In reply to How long have you been with T AND......., posted by Looney Tunes on November 11, 2008, at 23:36:37
Hi Looney,
Nice questions. I have been thinking a lot about these myself having just surfaced from my worst crisis I can remember. Now that I'm back, I'm back to thinking about the therapy process, and of course, my T.I have been seeing my T for a little over two years.
1) I feel like I have been able to bring up the past and sensitive things - to a point - for quite some time. However, I OFTEN feel as if I'm not sharing the whole picture. It's like I keep a part of me in my head only - pretending to tell her. Then of course in those moments I don't feel fully seen because how could I be? I haven't shared all of me?
2) This is directly what effects #1 for me. I have tons-o-embarrassment and loads-o-shame. For me it's mostly around gender and sexuality issues I'm grappling with. There are, of course, components that have to do with my childhood, and in particular my father. I think the shame comes from these times as well as just a general feeling I have that I'm disgusting and that I will truly find out that there is something fundamentally wrong with me. The embarrassing pieces are simply when I'm trying to talk about sex in detail (which is relevant to my therapy) and I am having to say things out loud to this gorgeous T who I am extremely attracted to. Thank goodness she is so good at holding extremely good boundaries at the same time that she is not afraid of me. But it's very hard, so to speak. So, to answer this question - the embarrassment and shame for me seems to still be unfolding and therefore seeming like it's growing... when I imagine it's really not - I'm just facing it with her.
3) Two weeks ago I had what I think I will always refer to as "our breakthrough" session. I really saw that she is not judging me and I really felt her care. I'm sure I will slip away from this, but it was a pivotal moment in our work.
FMD
Posted by lucie lu on November 12, 2008, at 19:32:27
In reply to How long have you been with T AND......., posted by Looney Tunes on November 11, 2008, at 23:36:37
>
> 1) How long did it take for you to be able to "really" talk with T?
> For example: Like say anything about your past? or anything that would be sensitive?I think the relationship deepened, which is what I think you are really asking, after two years.
We've been meeting for 6 years. The first two were once/week and I took 6 months off. When I came back I was frustratingly blocked. For months. I was just about to quit for good when something in me shifted and I asked to come twice a week. That changed everything.
> 2) How long did it take for you to stop being embarrassed? Is this the same as shame?Funny you should ask this. I am trying to work through a very sensitive area right now, to which a lot of embarrassment and shame is attached. We have had some sessions recently just focusing on how he can make me feel safe. I think that is helping but I'll know if I'm able to follow through with the goods very soon. I think embarrassment goes more easily than shame, which I think is harder to talk about. But really, it depends upon where your sore spots are, those are the ones that can be so very hard to talk about. Of course that makes them the things you need most to discuss.
> 3) How long did it take for you to realize T was not judging you or going to make you leave?
Not sure what you mean by making you leave? I trust that he will be there and stay there. I am worried about the judging part only now with this sensitive area. If he can really show me non-judgmental now, then I'll be a true believer.
> Thoughts?
I take it these are current issues for you now, LT? Good to hear from you, BTW.
Lucie
Posted by Looney Tunes on November 12, 2008, at 23:17:17
In reply to Re: How long have you been with T AND....... » Looney Tunes, posted by Wittgensteinz on November 12, 2008, at 10:45:24
Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I think it is very important to think about the T relationship frequently, in an "objective" way. (Not, oh I love my T way...LOL)
Alot of these questions I have been thinking about recently as a way to look at home the therapy relationship has moved and changed.
I have been with my T for 7 months now. (I just moved here about 1.5 years ago) I go 2 times a week. I have just recently started talking about "my life." This indicates to me a move forward.
Wittgensteinz, I think you distinction between embarrassment and shame is excellent. I liked how you tied in the concept of guilt with the shame.
These issues are overwhelming for me. I can not even look at T at all. I am usually sitting with my head in my shirt. LOL
I have seen no movement forward in this area.I also constantly fear judgment from T. I think I look at it as it is human nature to judge people, and how could T be any different. But of course, we are 100% harder on ourselves than other people probably are.
I have made no movement forward in this area.Well, after this assessment, I have a long way to go.
This is the end of the thread.
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